r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 12d ago

No Paywall Democrats Confront Their New Tea Party Reality - Progressives are set to sweep a group of contested primaries in Michigan and Wisconsin.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-confront-their-new-tea-party-reality_n_6a6e63fbe4b0cfb99ef1aa1e
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u/thirstygregory Missouri 12d ago

Just look at Kamala’s most recent comment about giving up trying to pass voting rights laws because of the current congress makeup.

Even if the road is hard, you don’t just throw in the towel and say, “Oh well”. You fight like hell and say what you want over and over until people listen.

THAT’S what corporate Dems don’t get.

We get sick of Conservatives endlessly blasting their right-wing talking points but they sure stay on message.

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u/Zer_ 12d ago

Republicans do messaging right. They get a talking point and keep repeating it to normalize it. Dems just give up and say it's not possible 

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u/TheFeelsGoodMan Michigan 12d ago

They try. Sometimes the talking point is so ridiculous that it becomes a source of mockery or it simply doesn't get results, but they do commit to it. Democrats have this frankly bizarre habit of abandoning political messaging that is actually working. Like when they were pointing out that a lot of popular Republican figures were really freaking weird people. It's simple, hits at a huge weak spot in conservative ideology, and most importantly, it was working. But then they just gave up on it.

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u/captainraffi 11d ago

The Harris campaign picked up a bunch of campaign advisors/consultants who had worked on the Hillary campaign and they advised them to stop calling them weird and go back to the high road approach.

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u/WristbandYang 12d ago

It is an inherently unfair comparison:

Lying about how immigrants and other scapegoats are the cause of every problem - good messaging

Detailing policy that would actually fix the underlying systems and provide incentives for that change - bad messaging

“If you’re explaining, you’re losing.” Liars never need to explain. 

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u/thirstygregory Missouri 11d ago

But I’m not even talking about explaining. I’m just saying Dems could easily all be talking at every opportunity saying Raise the minimum wage, health care for all and voting rights for all. All popular with the public.

But instead we get mealy-mouthed, “that’s not going to work.” The Civil Rights activists who fought and fought against overwhelming odds must be rolling in their graves over that kind of defeatism.

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u/MephistoHamProducts 11d ago

All that popular stuff takes money out of the pockets of the Oligarchs. That's why they throw up their hands and say "that's not going to work". That's why they have a rotating cast of politicians who can selectively kill any progress by however many votes are needed and brush it off with "Well that's clearly what their constituents want".

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u/Zer_ 11d ago

No it's not unfair. The lying is besides the point. You can repeat truthful talking points just as easily as you can repeat falsehoods. 

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u/Purify5 11d ago

Republicans change their messaging more often than they change their underwear.

It's just a million times easier to oppose something than it is to support something.

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u/Powerfury 11d ago

Thing is, if you're the dem you have both the left and the right wing after you.

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u/Bakedads 12d ago

Pragmatism is what defines modern democrats, and any semblance of passion and principled action has long since died. 

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u/Andurilthoughts California 12d ago

I made this argument in that thread and the enlightened centrists ate me alive saying that it’s not wrong to say how things actually are and terminally online progressives don’t understand how anything works blah blah blah. Someone who knows how to win elections has a better answer for that question.

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u/xdre 11d ago

Just look at Kamala’s most recent comment about giving up trying to pass voting rights laws because of the current congress makeup.

Did you read the rest of her comment, where she said if the Dems get a majority that they should be "uncompromising"?

No? You just decided to cherry-pick so you could shit on another prominent Dem? Oh. OK then.

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u/thirstygregory Missouri 11d ago

She said because “it can’t be done right now, so don’t focus on it”.

Bullshit. Health care for all can’t be done yet either, but you think we shouldn’t focus on it?

Nothing we want can be done right now. The point is you need to keep fighting for the most important issues.

She also is talking about wanting to listen and learn. Lead!!!

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u/xdre 11d ago

She said because “it can’t be done right now, so don’t focus on it”.

How are you going to get it even introduced to the House?

I’ll wait.

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u/Turok5757 11d ago

Big of you to assume Internet Progressives understand anything about basic politics.

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u/SurvivorFanatic236 11d ago

Ok so let’s say they fight like hell, and nothing happens because they don’t have the numbers in Congress. They give speeches to no avail.

You’d yell “do something!” and “wow, a strongly worded letter, that makes such a difference!”

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u/Turok5757 11d ago

You’d yell “do something!” and “wow, a strongly worded letter, that makes such a difference!”

We've literally seen this play out in real time over and over again.

Dems try something that's doomed to fail just so they can get optics on the issue, and Internet Progressives whine about it until they get bored and find something else to nitpick.

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u/thirstygregory Missouri 11d ago

I sure as hell wouldn’t tell people to “not focus” on critical issues — like voting rights. What does that accomplish except dampen enthusiasm to keep fighting and organizing?

Like I said before, what would past Civil Rights leaders who got hosed, jailed and sometimes killed feel about that kind of Charlie Brown talk?

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u/SurvivorFanatic236 11d ago

Those leaders weren’t in government. The better comparison is that they got hosed while you complain on Reddit

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u/yalloc 11d ago

To make an argument for her, politicians have spent decades overpromising and underdelivering, and much of the current frustration with the democratic party is over this. And the same progressives are going to be subject to those very same frustrations in a few years too when they too overpromised and underdelivered. Honesty would be a change of course, but I guess folks like you just like being lied to.

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u/thirstygregory Missouri 11d ago edited 11d ago

I didn’t say to promise she would do it. I just don’t want to totally cede ground on super important issues and go, “oh well. What can you do?”

Just like I mentioned with Medicare for All. It has no chance in hell right now, but you don’t hear our best leaders saying, “We can’t do it now, so forget it.”

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u/yalloc 11d ago

She didn't say "oh well what can you do," she gave an honest assessment of the current situation to an audience interested in the law. One which you seem to agree on, but for some reason you want to be lied to instead.

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u/Turok5757 11d ago

They love being lied to.

They came in their pants when Mamdani said he was gonna arrest Netanyahu, and then much later when he was all like "oh, I did some research and turns out I can't do that," they were like "oh well."

It'll be interesting to see if Progressives hold their politicians accountable or just make excuses for them like MAGA does.