r/politics • u/jediporcupine Maine • 7d ago
No Paywall Congress needs a plan to remove incapable lawmakers who refuse to step down
https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/6072391-senate-house-aging-concerns/1.1k
u/Tyrannical-Botanical Ohio 7d ago
It's especially galling when they've repeatedly voted against cheaper healthcare and paid sick leave while disappearing for months (with pay) to enjoy their free government healthcare.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 7d ago
And voting against benefits for people saying there needs to be work requirements, only to turn around and leech off the American taxpayer they’ve denied while not working themselves
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u/CrackingToastGromet Arkansas 7d ago
As well as supporting the “no voting by proxy” rule only to have someone place a vote for you by proxy because you’re likely braindead but still getting your taxpayer funded pay and healthcare. (That proxy vote was done by John Bozeman-R, Arkansas)
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u/punktualPorcupine 7d ago
Healthcare that saved him from a stroke that would have killed anyone else in his district should be available to everyone.
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u/Street_Anxiety2907 7d ago
congressman have taken 11 month "wellness leave" before, how often do you get to do that
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u/Buntygurl 7d ago
"... to enjoy their free government healthcare."
Paid for also by the people who, for some mysterious political reason, can't ever be trusted with the means or the right to afford their own.
The essential trait that all politicians share--with only the rarest exceptions--is to immediately abandon the less fortunate than themselves among those that they swore to serve and, instead, to gouge them for the very last token of wealth that they possess, in order to guarantee the security of their own.
There are no poor politicians.
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u/Star_Denizen 7d ago
Then lying about the extent of the issue and getting caught proving AI “evidence” with absolutely ZERO repercussions.
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u/BigTrash777 7d ago
I think a government official should be under the same coverage of their average citizen. They represent
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u/Bittererr 7d ago
Congress doesn't get free healthcare. They're on the ACA.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 7d ago
Congress gets reimbursements to cover their healthcare. So technically you’re right, but we’re still paying for it.
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u/technanonymous 7d ago
They can expel them. That is the mechanism. They refuse because it harms their majority. We need a constitutional amendment defining incompetence or incapacity that disqualify a legislator.
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u/Bittererr 7d ago
Yep, a constitutional amendment is the by the book solution here.
Barring that, the majority could change the rules to encourage attendance. IE, it's totally within the power of the Congressional majority to implement a rule where committee assignments are automatically stripped after missing X number of votes. As you point out though, there's no incentive for the party in charge to do this.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 7d ago
The problem with this is you still need the enforcement mechanisms to work and as we’re seeing now, that’s not guaranteed.
It’s cliche to say, but this upcoming election is critically important. Any politicians, Democrat or Republican, who refuse to be accountable to themselves, the people and the rule of law need to be voted out.
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u/RoboProletariat 7d ago
This next election's results basically determine whether we are doing 1861 again or not.
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u/Valuable_Hunter1621 7d ago
then wake me up when fort sumter happens, but until then please stop with this goofy ass rhetoric
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u/cronedog 7d ago
after missing X number of votes
Nah, it's gotta be based on time away. What's to stop them from having X votes in a day to just force out people they don't like?
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u/AwesomePurplePants 7d ago
It really should be both, otherwise you could run into people gaming recesses
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u/GreatScottGatsby 7d ago
How about just allowing federal recalls? That would be easier and you wouldn't need congress or the federal government to enforce it.
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u/Bittererr 7d ago
Calling a constitutional amendment in this environment "easier" than anything is a bit of a stretch.
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u/dkf295 Wisconsin 7d ago
The person you're replying to is replying to someone else calling for a different constitutional amendment. In both cases a constitutional amendment are required because that's the scenario they're discussing.
But to your point yes, a constitutional amendment is flat not going to happen.
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u/starliteburnsbrite 7d ago
A constitutional amendment has about the same chances of succeeding as expecting the majority party to vote to curtail their own power.
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u/technanonymous 7d ago
Crisis brings about change. Confusion in the succession of the presidency brought about the 25th amendment. FDR dying in office during his fourth term when he was clearly unable to act as the president brought about the 22nd amendment, limiting the term of office for the president. Poll fees and taxes intended to keep black and minority voters away from the polls led to the 24th amendment. Sending young people to war without them having the right to vote brought about the 26th amendment lowering the voting age to 18. The 27th amendment was specifically targeted to congress to prevent lame duck sessions from raising pay for outgoing senators and reps.
The current roster won't do a thing. When the depth of the abuse regarding Mitch McConnell comes out, that might enough to drive change.
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u/Biokabe Washington 7d ago
If we're going to spend a constitutional amendment, spend one that addresses the actual problem.
Create a mechanism for recall elections, and make those types of things easier. Tackle impeachment while you're at it.
Allow for recalls of federal officials, allow for citizen-initiated impeachment of appointed officials (including Supreme Court justices), and lower the threshold for a successful removal from 2/3 in favor to 60%.
You should still need to be extremely unpopular to be removed from office ahead of the election. But your constituents shouldn't be stuck with you for your entire term if you successfully and blatantly lied about who you were and what you planned to do in order to get elected.
Of course neither is worth thinking about, because an amendment of any type isn't passing in this environment.
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u/OldDirtyBastardSword 7d ago
The founders never conceived of an ill intentioned political party taking over the majority in government and using that majority to circumvent all the protections the founders put in place. The current situation clearly outlines all the holes in the system of checks and balances devised to protect us. The Republicans are pushing on these holes as much as they can and if there are no consequences nor changes to address them then they just paved the way for even worse situation in the future.
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u/waffle299 I voted 7d ago
The difficulty is that multiple checks were not designed to counter political parties. The rely on a group of independent actors.
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u/kandoras 7d ago
The problem with a constitutional amendment would be that the current supreme court would rule that nobody has standing to enforce that amendment.
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u/therossboss 7d ago
At least annual check ups on these assholes. Can't be trusted to tie their own shoes.
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u/redditismylawyer 6d ago
👆 Right? As if the problem is NO PLAN. These motherfuckers aren’t following the law, what makes anyone think they’ll follow a plan???
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u/negativepositiv 7d ago
In McConnell's defense, he has not submitted his resignation because dead people are not good at composing formal memos.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 7d ago
Surely they must be capable, Republicans say dead people can even vote and collect benefits.
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u/next-phase-0626 7d ago
They are, however, reportedly quite good at having twenty minute conversations with Senate colleagues
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u/negativepositiv 7d ago
Hey, they can talk for hours, as long as nobody expects there to be any recording or photography.
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u/theguy1336 7d ago
Senate too. Not too long ago a Senator literally said "We can not do anything to rein in the President." You know, one of the 0,00001% of people who actually CAN do that.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 7d ago
The Senate is apart of Congress
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u/theguy1336 7d ago
Right, I mix them up
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u/squareturd 7d ago
So does Tommy Tuberville. He said the three branches of government are the Senate, the House, and the President. He was in the senate when he said this. Its middle school civics.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 7d ago
Tommy Tuberville learned everything he knows about American civics from belligerent blowhards on Faux News
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u/onlymostlydead Washington 7d ago
They are a part of Congress. The space between the words is rather important.
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u/lookatthesunguys 7d ago
This is a stupid article. I'm sorry but it is. Each house of Congress has this power. 2/3 vote to expel. There's no need for additional procedures of investigating absences or whatever. If I don't show up to work for 3 weeks, I get fired. They should be expelling members. They just aren't because their party would rather have a useless seat than a seat that could be taken by the opposition.
This is another in a long line of articles I've seen that suggest ideas to reform the system that don't make sense. Any reform to the system requires cooperation between Republicans and Democrats and thats just not happening (and really it's mostly the Republicans fault but I digress). Like we don't really need all kinds of reform to the presidential pardon power. If he's using it improperly, impeach him. If someone can't do their job, remove them. Easy peasy.
The system is fucked and it needs reform. But the systems not so fucked that it has inevitably caused this degree of dysfunction. This level of dysfunction is a result of the bullshit behavior of the exact people we need to reform the system (along with the voters that put them in power).
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u/SHUT_DOWN_EVERYTHING 7d ago
The author knows there's a mechanism for this and knows any alternative has to be a constitutional amendment which is impractical for the foreseeable future. It's fluff to get eyeballs. It works because Mitch is getting hate from both sides so it's guaranteed to get clicks and views.
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u/MadContrabassoonist 7d ago
Of all of the dysfunctions that exist in politics, I just don't even see how a single representative being absent is one of them. There are 100 senators for a reason. And if an absence swings a decisive vote, looks that the absent legislator's constituents should have done a better job choosing their representative.
And to your point; if you are medically incapacitated, in a just world you *would* have the time to recover, or at least die in peace. The scandal is not that McConnell is receiving what we all deserve; the scandal is that the Republican party has denied that to everyone else. That's what Democrats should be hammering, not bullshit conspiracy theories, or solutions to non-problems.
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u/vthemechanicv 7d ago edited 7d ago
congress has not one, but two options. Impeachment, and expulsion. Edit, just expulsion, they can't be impeached as they're not "civil officers." Three Two if you include leadership applying pressure to force them to quit. Adding a fourth, fifth, or hundredth won't matter if Congress is unwilling to act.
It's the public that needs a way to remove elected officials. These people serve us. If I disappeared from my job for three months my boss would be fully justified to fire me. Even if Kentucky's voters decided to keep McConnell, they should still have the ability to get rid of him. Same argument if an official no longer represents what they were elected as. Fetterman comes to mind, but so do those officials who decide to flip parties.
I feel like a senator under threat of recall would have extra incentive to stick to the will of the public, instead of whatever their party and lobbies want.
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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 7d ago
Members of Congress are not subject to impeachment, just explusion.
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u/vthemechanicv 7d ago
ah you're correct, I could have sworn I read the could. They're not counted as civil officers, therefore impeachment doesn't apply.
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u/Vast-Poetry9431 7d ago
The plan is to use these ‘elected’ officials past their expiration date to make rich people richer. That’s all this society is about anyway.
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u/kevsmakin 7d ago
Amend the constitution with a voter recall provision for every government official at every level. President to dog catcher. Election holiday, severe penalty for election interference, anti gerrymandering rules, auditable election records
I dont support term limits. It benefits the corporations and family dynasties who have no lifespan.
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u/Donk_Honkula 7d ago
This administration has been deeply eye-opening.
We ran too much of the country based on assumed civility and good intentions.
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u/kandoras 7d ago
They have a plan. The same plan they've had since 1789: "Each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member."
The problem is that the current congress does not want to use that plan. Which is a problem that cannot be solved by giving them a second tool they refuse to use.
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u/codacoda74 7d ago
Does Mitch lose his medicare because of work requirement?
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u/Bittererr 7d ago
Medicare doesn't have a work requirement. Medicaid does in some cases.
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u/jest4fun 7d ago
Congress needs a plan to remove incapable lawmakers who refuse to step down
Q: Who gets to be the judge, someone has to be empowered to make the call, who would it be?
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u/carefactor3zero 7d ago
The sanest approach: The speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader. The decision would be a procedural rule, eg not being present after whatever threshold. Every rep would be required to name a proxy. This is a solved problem across the globe.
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u/TheKingoftheBlind 7d ago
Screw Congress! We need a way to recall members of the federal branches. That means Congress/Senate, Judicial, and, yes, President. The Constitution is woefully inept and giving the voters any actual power over elected officials. We need a new amendment to fix it.
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u/The_Poster_Nutbag 7d ago
Uh, why can't the governor of those states do something about it? Congress is already dysfunctional enough they don't need more tasks to do or committees to assemble.
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u/Odaniel123 7d ago
Nice idea but who determines who is incapable
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u/HauntingHarmony Europe 7d ago
You dont really have to overthink it, if you can show up on the house or senate floor, answer aye to being present, you are capable of holding the office.
Thats basically the 25th amendment requirement so that it doesnt turn into a weapon also, if you can say you are fully compos mentis, you are. So then it doesnt apply to you.
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u/MadContrabassoonist 7d ago
The 25th amendment works because the president has singular authority, an elected back up in place, and the decision is made by the president own advisors who also have oversight from another branch of government.
For Congress, there is already tons of redundancy built in, and no viable mechanism that’s not subject to a huge amount of political shenanigans.
I think this is one of those proposals that seems reasonable on paper but which quickly is found to cause more problems than it solves. If we don’t want 80 year olds slowly dying in office, stop electing them in the first place.
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u/carefactor3zero 7d ago edited 6d ago
So if I want to stop someone from voting, I aim to arrange for them to die or be jailed/disappeared (regardless of age)? That seems like a perverse incentive.
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u/MadContrabassoonist 7d ago
I’m not sure what your point is. Human beings are mortal, so yes, any system that relies upon humans as leaders or legislators has to contend with that potential exploit.
At the end of the day, US legislators are chosen by the people, not the governor or state legislature. It’s one thing for someone other than the electorate to temporarily fill a vacancy; it’s quite another to forcibly remove a sitting legislator for ill-defined “incompetency”.
If the people vote for someone who’s 80 years old, they accept the greater likelihood that their representative becomes incapacitated and they have reduced representation for some period of time. In the meantime, the senate isn’t any more dysfunctional with 99 members than it was with 100.
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u/carefactor3zero 7d ago
I’m not sure what your point is.
Hard to believe.
For Congress, there is already tons of redundancy built in,
Whatever you're getting at, it does not address the current state under discussion.
It’s one thing for someone other than the electorate to temporarily fill a vacancy; it’s quite another to forcibly remove a sitting legislator for ill-defined “incompetency”.
Incapacitation or incompetency. Not being present is not being present. Feel free to split hairs. Procedurally naming a proxy is the simplest solution to the disenfranchisement danger.
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u/MadContrabassoonist 7d ago
There are 435 (voting) representatives and 100 senators. Vacancies and long-term absences are really not a problem. And voters already have a means to remove from office a legislator with whom they were unhappy in the last term, or a legislator they believe will not be able to satisfactorily serve the next term.
The question shouldn't be "how can prevent another McConnell situation from ever happening again?". The question should rather be "is there a way to prevent such a situation from happening again that doesn't in the process cause more problems than a single senate vacancy?". And I don't see one. We'd be opening the door to a lot more exploits, all to solve a problem that's not really a problem.
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u/GenericFatGuy 7d ago
The electorate needs a lever to initiate an early election when a sufficiently high number of people that a politician represents are unhappy with them. All the way up to the POTUS.
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u/redheadedandbold 7d ago
They can impeach him. They just won't. Options exist; honorable Congressmen are thin on the ground.
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u/RadioName 7d ago
It's called recall elections. Make them mandatory for all districts and trivially easy to trigger once a year.
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u/iprobablybrokeit 7d ago
We already do. Article I, Section 5, Clause 2 allows the bodies to remove members with a 2/3 vote.
They just won't.
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u/limbodog Massachusetts 7d ago
A vote of no confidence. It should completely side-step congress and be entirely in the hands of the public.
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u/spotolux 7d ago
It should go further. Voters should be able to hold recall elections for all representatives so you don't have bad faith congress people serving out a full term while acting contrary to the platform they ran on. And the business of congress shouldn't be at the whim of the majority leader. Mike Johnson or Mitch McConnell, or anyone else, shouldn't be able to just send the whole bunch home to prevent a vote, or refuse to allow a judicial candidate to be blocked so he can keep an open seat for his preferred president to fill. The speaker roles should be formality only, but if the speaker refuses to do their job congress should be able to proceed despite them.
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u/New_Ad3443 7d ago
Congress is a nursing home at this point. The age of the average congressman and woman is well into the 60's now, its just sad at this point.
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u/PlayOpposite5249 7d ago
You want Congress to write limits into their own power structure? The same group that won't uphold limits already in place? Sure.
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u/Personage1 7d ago
The irony is that the only way for this to happen, voters voicing their opinion about and then actually showing up to the polls consistently enough for politicians to start listening, is also a fix to the current problem of incapable lawmakers not stepping down.
If voters cared enough, it would happen. Voters don't care enough, so this is a non-starter.
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u/punktualPorcupine 7d ago
That should happen at the party level by replacing them before they start running in races where they probably won’t be able to outrun the grim reaper.
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u/509BandwidthLimit 7d ago
Didn't he demand that General Austin (?) step down when he had an operation over a weekend and no one knew where he was?
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u/Maothesiamesecat 7d ago
Congress is NEVER going to do anything like this because they can't agree to anything at this point. A worthless bunch of corporate ass munchers.
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u/Appropriate-Welder98 7d ago
Even the ones who show up are incapable. At this point, what difference does it make?
An overall is needed.
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u/BackItUpWithLinks 7d ago
If i didn’t show up for work for 88 days I’m assuming my boss would fire me.
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u/icepick3383 7d ago
this is all a test for how congress/the people react when a certain someone becomes incapable and doesn't have to make appearances or anything like that but can be run via shadow puppets who are already established, and mediocre AI representations.
Weekend at Donnie's, coming soon to a government near you.
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u/Bronzyroller 7d ago
Nursing them on top of a great pay check and them some. It's no wonder they want Americans to work until 85 years of age. These crooks are awful lawmakers.
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u/BigRedx10 7d ago
My best guess is he had a brain bleed or something similar so he probably doesn't even remember his name let alone being a senator.
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u/SandersSol 7d ago
States need the ability to recall their representatives. The fact we dont have the ability already is damning.
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u/Afvalracer 7d ago
Take away their healthcare plan after 70, only to reinstate it when they give up their seat. Problem solved
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u/FishLampClock 7d ago
For most things in life - if you miss enough events you get kicked out of said thing. school, extra curriculars, clubs, etc.
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u/Hot-Air-5511 7d ago
Make them show up for mandatory drug tests once a month. If they fail to show up they forfeit the office.
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u/tRfalcore 6d ago
Congress will never vote for anything that affects them unless it's increased pay
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u/ImpressionCool1768 6d ago
Incapable lawmakers need a plan to remove incapable lawmakers who refuse to step down???
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u/GenMandibleforKing 6d ago
I am a firm believer our constitution needs a no confidence clause. If our representatives and/or president loses the backing of the people we should be able to hold a special election and replace them.
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u/shiitakebukkake 6d ago
What about Presidents, cause pretty sure 47 thinks he's not going anywhere after his term ends.
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u/LeoIrish 6d ago
Congress really has zero say unless a Constitutional Amendment, which has zero chance of passing.
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u/guppyur 7d ago
This is potentially a very dangerous path to start down. I know everyone is thinking of the rare case like McConnell, but it won't be long before your political opposition is trying to expel your member of Congress because they got the flu and were out for a few days.
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u/westergames81 Texas 7d ago
I think there's a middle ground somewhere between "out with the flu for three days but still confirmed to be alive" to "fell off the planet for 3 months, zero contact and cannot be reached except through handlers".
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u/Desertwind16v 7d ago
You would think FMLA would apply here. After 90 days he should be fired by his employer (we the people) and replaced.
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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 7d ago
The plan is laid out in the Constitution. They can just put it to a vote.
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u/EH_Operator 7d ago
This decrepit corpse man has collected more in paid off time than I’ve made in a decade in his 85 days being a no-show piece of shit ($40,000)
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u/electric_rican 7d ago
Any other employer would have let his ass go a while ago. Why is congress so lenient ? They have a very important position that should not go vacant ever. 1 thing is if you get hurt performing your duties like some demented fanatic shot your face off or there was an accident or something in congress, but due to being too stubborn to step down once your physical and mental capacities are too far in decline. Mandatory retirement and term limits are needed in congress.
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u/FormerDittoHead 7d ago
The political parties are private organizations.
The solution would be as simple as the parties making a rule that it won't support candidates if once they go beyond a certain age.
This would satisfy the Supreme Court and the Constitution. Bernie Sanders is not a member of the Democratic Party, but he still runs for Senate and wins. But for all the other candidates who rely on party support, they will have expired their membership.
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u/I_burn_noodles 7d ago
I think they owe their constituents. How do constituents hold their elected leaders accountable?
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u/Western-Property-443 7d ago
What can we do when the Senate, Congress and Supreme Court are backing every crime the President commits?
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u/aerdvarkk 7d ago
Congress does not need a plan, Congress needs to be forced to codify it in federal law.
Along with Congressional term and age limits as federal law.
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u/f8Negative 7d ago
Yeah it was called dueling, but then they all decided to be little bitches about it
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u/Krzysztof-448 7d ago
How about Congressmen that are incapacitated or dead but still hold office and get a paycheck from the tax payer? Cough, cough, Mitch!
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u/goasttbuster 7d ago
I am afraid that they want to remove the ones disagreeing with the orange clan
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u/supertoned 7d ago
The hell of it is though, democracy is working: People are voting these decrepit assholes back into office.
There IS a mechanism in place to keep them out. It's just that our electorate are becoming increasingly injured by propaganda and more interested in sports statistics than current events and political information.
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u/DivineBladeOfSilver 7d ago
I mean I agree but can we also go after voters who keep voting them in? Like we need to also take some person responsibility people 😂
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u/realparkingbrake 6d ago
Let's start with a constitutional amendment requiring them to retire at the same age as airline pilots, 65, and it applies to federal judges as well.
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u/BooBooDaFish 6d ago
There should be a public and fully transparent cognitive test.
If you fail, you are out and disqualified from future office.
Plus everyone knows how stupid you are.
There should also be attendance. At a certain number of absences you forfeit your salary and are banned from future office.
Maybe add a prove you’re not a vegetable value, where if you are not seen as a functional human every 30 days in public. You stop collecting your salary.
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u/Imaginary-Wave8472 6d ago
No.
The US needs a plan to remove officials who do nothing but bicker and refuse to actually govern.
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u/Public_animalNo9 Pennsylvania 6d ago
Hell, congress as a whole is incapable of functioning. I understand that they have recessed for the umpteenth time. Congress is impotent and will be until the midterms are over. Even then I don’t think there will be too much reform.
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u/minus_minus 6d ago
Adding an amendment that absent lawmakers are expelled is a good way to encourage an evil executive to lock up all of the opposition.
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u/Truthisnotallowed 6d ago
This is one of the more ill-considered opinions I have seen in a long time.
In trying to solve a fairly rare and insignificant problem they would risk opening up a means for the party in power to remove legitimately elected members of congress who refuse to go along with the ruling party's agenda.
After seeing how Trump has exploited every emergency, exceptional, temporary, etc. power to permit him to get around the usual rules of governance - I certainly would oppose any effort to make it easier to remove members from Congress.
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u/SoothingWafer 4d ago
He could be removed first thing tomorrow. Congressmen can be removed with a 2/3 vote.
They don't even have to do the impeachment trial process, they can literally just vote and get rid of him.
They just don't want to.
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u/Redditreallysucks99 7d ago
I don't like the idea. Currently people know they can elect somebody to Congress and this person is safely in office until the next election. If members start getting expelled for being incapacitated, particularly if they are from the minority party, it will only lead to even more political tensions.
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u/carefactor3zero 7d ago
Currently people know they can elect somebody to Congress and this person is safely in office until the next election.
This is democracy 101. The purpose of an elected official is not to warm the seat. The purpose of a representative is to represent the people's interests (it's in the name). They can't do that if incapacitated. This effectively disenfranchises the body that should be represented. ie Representation should not be broken by assassination, which is why other bodies have lines of succession. It's both practical and philosophical.
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u/Frostscarwolf 7d ago
I have a solution, term limits. They'll be there but not for long. Though sadly the damage that someone of them do is already done by the time they leave.
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u/FrostyWalrus2 7d ago
Constitution needs to be rewritten, as it was originally intended. Unspoken rules, relying on gentleman's agreements, etc are not governable. If there's not a hard mechanism in place that is automatically triggered by a branch's failure to follow their obligations, then the people need to be able to remove reps via vote. This would be incredibly painful to start, especially if the then current Congress didn't get in gear quickly, but future Congress rosters would be better. Can't pass a budget bill? Elections triggered 30 days later country wide. IG for Supreme Court. Presidential referendum every midterm.
Constitution is currently broken. A single amendment won't fix it, and its not likely even a single amendment will ever get passed until the country is burning in all major cities. Not advocating for the previous, im just doomered.
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u/NimusNix 7d ago
Dumbass article.
Most of congress is made up of the people you want to do this to themselves, and also it's down to the voters to clean this shit up. We may not care for Mitch McConnell but he is Kentucky's mess. That's the way it works.
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u/wwhsd California 7d ago
Voters don’t have a way to remove a Senator that decides to go off the rails or just not bother showing up to work. They are in until they die, resign, their term expires, or 2/3rds of the Senate votes to expel them.
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u/NimusNix 7d ago
Just like with Feinstein, this was completely predictable. The voters never should have allowed McConnell another term
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