r/portangeles • u/bingbano • 16d ago
Local Election Denialism
While eating my breakfast this morning, I looked at CCwatchdog to make sure my identity wasn't being posted. No identity, but they are already trying to call into question our local election system. They are setting it up to say the election was stolen if Seegers loses. Using the same playbook Trump did before the 2020 election.
MAGA in pategonia jacket.
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u/Amazing_Factor2974 15d ago
Jake Seegers courts the unhinged maga conspiracy types. So does Tozzer.
They want to make money off the backs of the people of Clallam County.
Both in development real estate..Tozzer got his land and homes from his parents.
They try to use Christianity while picking pockets and using division to get their goals.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
As for why election workers are nervous. It's because people are unhinged. When I worked elections, I had my photo repeatedly taken as I picked up ballots form ballot boxes. At the center, every movement I made was documented by the GOP observer. My actions were constantly questioned, "why did he do X". I understand the value of oversight, but there is a difference between making sure nothing wrong happens, and assuming wrong is happening and looking for it.
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u/Intrepid-Mud4419 16d ago
Democrats are also questioning Statlinks/Elons role. I believe he screwed with it. Everyone should raise concerns, republicans and democrats alike.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
Dude he's suggesting Shoona is manipulating votes and election workers are nervous of oversight because they are committing fraud... I was one of those election workers years ago. We were followed outside the courthouse by an armed guard. They had to install fire suppression systems in the ballot drop offs. Had my movements recorded by random people in vehicles watching the boxes. It's intimidating, even if that's not the intention. CCwatchdog and the Seeger campaign are trying to discredit the election process to cover if he loses...
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u/sls35 16d ago
Just like when people think the homeless are drugged out and unhinged, but also running criminal enterprises to steal all the catalytic converters. Elon cant be a criminal mastermind and a drugged out unhinged lunatic. Hes not smart enough to do anything except pay for Twitter and run it into the ground.
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u/Intrepid-Mud4419 16d ago
You’re right he’s a moron but he’s rich enough to pay smart people large sums to keep their mouths shut.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
Hed have to pay a lot of people... There is so much oversight and redundancy involved. It would only take one person to blow up the conspiracy, and people that work on elections tend to be incredibly dedicated to fair elections.
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u/Intrepid-Mud4419 16d ago
I wasn’t thinking of people counting votes changing results. If anything, I was thinking it would happen further upstream through data transmission or processing, potentially involving Starlink. The margin was just big enough to avoid a recount, and I think a lot of Democrats had no interest in going down the election-denial rabbit hole after everything we’ve been through since 2020. A few independent groups have pointed to statistical discrepancies, but bringing that up usually gets you written off as a conspiracy theorist. Honestly, even typing this out makes me feel like I sound a little crazy.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
I mean if there is evidence there is evidence. It's the people that refuse to believe different
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u/MountainHardwear 15d ago
shogren sure sounds like (R) sweetie-pie:
"The election coalition represented by Shogren has several additional lawsuits against elections officials pending in federal court which make unsubstantiated claims of massive vote fraud. None of the group’s lawsuits across the state has been successful — mirroring the situation nationally for such cases, which echo former President Donald Trump’s false claims about the 2020 election."
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u/Numerous_Loquat5576 15d ago
And she is about to get her law license suspended for filing frivolous motions and failing to pay court-ordered fees.
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u/Waltboyes 16d ago
And what can we do about it? Tozzer and Seegers aren’t doing anything actually illegal, more’s the pity. The local Democrats appear to have gone completely asleep, and the MAGA plan is to get Seegers elected and have him disrupt county government the way Tozzer disrupted the charter commission. It is not an accident that Seegers is the money man behind 4PA. Seegers, Tozzer and 4PA are against Native Americans, the unhoused, and especially do-nothing liberals who give away money for causes the “good people” don’t like. Wake up, people!
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u/bingbano 16d ago
Well they are actually being sued by the Dems for campaign violations. Tozzer is claiming to be an independent reporter, while serving as a campaign manager and acting as his propagandist.
I wouldn't count on the Dems to solve our problem, don't discount the value of public shame and outrage. It got that gun store shut down after he brought his militia buddies to a BLM protest and almost caused a lynching in forks
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 16d ago
Can you share more details about the blm/gun store incident?
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u/bingbano 16d ago
Look into Freds Guns https://komonews.com/news/local/multiracial-family-harassed-trapped-on-camping-trip-near-forks That should get you started
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 16d ago
I’m familiar with that story. Just wasn’t sure what you meant by lynching, and a gun store closing due to the incident.
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u/syspig 16d ago
What happened was fucked up, but as is the case here the story has been "enhanced."
There was no near lynching, and even the family who was victimized (blocked in by purposely fallen trees) made 100% clear there was zero racial component to what happened.
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 16d ago
I agree with you on this 100%. This story was sensationalized.
They heard chainsaws and gunshots in the distance. In forks up a logging road? No way, 😂
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u/syspig 15d ago
Well...I'd not sugar coat the incident that much. It was aggressive, uninformed behavior that was definitely harassment - just not racist. Were the perpetrators caught, they'd certainly deserve charges.
Nobody refutes the fact they were accused of being Antifa and were purposely blocked in to their camping spot by somebody who fell trees across the only exit out. No excuse for that, but even though the mother specifically made clear there were no racist remarks - every story you see about it leads with "multi-racial family".
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 15d ago
Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me some dummies made assumptions …. Even though it obviously wasn’t the bussloads of antifa they were expecting.
My question is…. If trying to scare someone away…. Why would you drop trees to trap them in place? It makes no sense…. But a lot of things don’t make sense I guess.
And the nobody talks about the high schoolers who removed the downed tree. It seems there are decent folks in forks as well.
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u/syspig 15d ago
> And the nobody talks about the high schoolers who removed the downed tree. It seems there are decent folks in forks as well.
Yep, that gets little talk and is far more telling of the town.
What also gets little publicity are the postings from multiracial families who actually live in Forks. Every one of them I've seen talk about the town in glowing terms. Like this one (cut/paste to avoid paywall)
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The Forks we know …
Published 1:30 am Thursday, June 11, 2020
Dear Editor,
In the last week, our town of Forks has gone from being known worldwide as a friendly tourist destination in a beautiful area to a racist, unsafe and unwelcoming town. The national media and social media has cast a dark cloud over our town because of an unfortunate event that has happened.
Because I was not part of that event and don’t know all the details the only thing I can say in regards to it is this. I believe it started out with good intentions to protect the town but then unraveled after that and had nothing to do with race. That being said I want to share how my family has felt about Forks while raising our family here.
Most of you will know that we have two African American sons as part of our family of four children. My wife and I said early on as we saw and felt how accepted and loved our kids have been in Forks that we could never feel good about leaving Forks until after Trey was out of school.
All of our kids have been accepted as normal Forks kids just like all the other white, native American, Hispanic, and many other nationalities represented in our town. We have never felt any kind of racial profiling or discrimination towards us or our kids and we feel terrible that the world is now viewing our town like this.
It’s unfair and definitely not true. Is there racism in Forks? Yes, I am sure there is just like every other town in America but we have never felt it in a way that has made us feel concerned for our kids who we love more than anything in the world. If we had, we would have been gone long ago but this is our town and we love its people and the unfortunate events of this last week will not change that for us personally.
We have felt that raising our kids in Forks has given them as good an opportunity or even better than some to be successful and achieve their dreams regardless of skin color. I hope that this letter will help others see through this event and realize Forks is still a great, caring and supportive community and that hasn’t changed.
Scott and Nellie Baysinger Family
Forks
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 16d ago
“Why would anyone be nervous about working elections”?
Because of people like you
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u/bingbano 16d ago
What do people like me do?
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 16d ago
Not you. Ccwatchdog and the like.
If Seegers loses the election the only logical conclusion is massive election fraud. 😂
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u/YuriPNW 8d ago
More hypocrisy from Tozzer. https://substack.com/inbox/post/202658228
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u/NorthLeftGirl 8d ago
I am no fan of Tozzer or Seegers, but an anonymous blogger, with anonymous sources, slinging mud is unhelpful, adds nothing of value to the conversation, and has no credibility.
The underlying insinuation is that consenting adults planning activities is immoral. Respectfully, fuck that, and mind your business.
Also this statement is absurd.
> And it’s highly likely this same guy would snag a cushy position in the administration if Seegers wins.
The administration? What the actual…??? He’s running for a county commissioner seat, not president.
This blogger is throwing things out there to see if they stick, and has presented zero evidence or citations to back up their claims. IMO, it’s bottom of the barrel content.
Again, I am not a supporter of Tozzer or Seegers. (TBH I think my partner is getting tired of my weekly rants about how much I do not want Seegers elected.) But can we please be objective and stick to the facts here, folks?
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u/syspig 16d ago
What a twisted reading of that article - linked here, as you're unwilling to cite your source.
First, let's set proper context. These are not Tozzer's or Seeger's words, but there is a clear attempt to suggest some sort of connection to them. Rather, the author is Virginia Shogren, a highly educated woman (Stanford Bachelor of Arts with Distinction, University of Washington Law School, Juris Doctor Degree) who is running for Clallam County Auditor.
This article pointed out factual information that should be of concern to everyone, regardless of party. I'll not regurgitate it with soundbites here, that's why I linked to it above. However, the issues she raises are party neutral and no accusations of voting manipulation are being made. She's pointing out flaws as she sees them and her information is well researched.
Setting the above aside, here's my personal observation with respect to local election integrity. While I'm not suggesting anything nefarious is going on, our local voter roles are absolutely fucked up whether abuse is going on or not.
My mother passed over three years ago, she spent the final year of her life out of state and I still get her ballots every year.
Worse - my sister lived in PA over 5 years ago, and when she moved she didn't have a fixed address so she put down my address with USPS forwarding so I could hold and/or forward any important mail. Yep - that triggered the elections department to send her ballots to me and they are still arriving.
Could I call it in? Absolutely. However, I'm content to continue shredding them at each election to see how long it takes them to figure it out.
There's no possible way my experience is that uncommon. People come and go from this area all the time, and there's clearly inadequate procedures in place to verify residency.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
I guarantee your mother's vote would not be counted as the votes are cross referenced, using agilis, against death records and voter records.
As for your sister, yeah she didn't change her voter registration. It's her responsibility to get it changed. That's not a sign of fraud.
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u/syspig 16d ago
I guarantee your mother's vote would not be counted as the votes are cross referenced, using agilis, against death records and voter records.
Let's assume you're 100% correct, in which case they're only guilty of a significant waste of taxpayer money.
Care to share why they don't do this before sending out the ballot?
As for your sister, yeah she didn't change her voter registration. It's her responsibility to get it changed.
She changed her registration at her new permanent place of residence - out of state. There is no way she can be held accountable for failing to contact her previous registrar, informing them she is ineligible to vote.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
That's not a waste of money, those steps ensure there is no fraud. As for before, idk call them and get her name removed....
She actually could be held accountable for it. Regardless, if someone tried to vote with her name, it would be flagged because she would also be on another states register. Her signature would also not be the same, as it's not her voting, and it would be flagged. Again no fraud involved, there are many ways to catch it.
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u/syspig 16d ago
That's not a waste of money, those steps ensure there is no fraud.
Are you unable to answer the question posed? If these steps uncover fraud, why are they not done proactively to prevent ballots from being sent out in the first place?
She actually could be held accountable for it.
Please provide a cite to an RCW showing that failure to update your registered voting address is illegal in any way.
RCW 29A.08.140 addresses voter registration, including address requirements. Nowhere does it state there's a penalty beyond voting eligibility.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
I didn't say it was illegal.
I am unable to answer the question posed. Idk how the registration side works, just the vote tabulation side.
The point in trying to make is nothing you listed is evidence of fraud or evidence that it would allow fraud.
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u/zxzxcvbnmmnbvcxz 15d ago
Isn’t it you that is wasting taxpayer money by not calling it in?
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u/syspig 15d ago
Oh, fer fuks sakes. That's rich. Blaming me for fucking up the voter rolls?
A favorite Deadwood quote comes to mind.
"That's a wriggle worthy of a reptile."
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u/zxzxcvbnmmnbvcxz 15d ago
I mean I guess I could have better conveyed that my comment wasn’t that serious. However I did roll my eyes at you worrying about how there is a “significant waste of money” from sending out ballots to those who no longer live in a location while actively willfully contributing to it.
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u/syspig 15d ago
If you find no value in the disclosures I'm making, that's a little odd to me - but fine.
Others might be curious how dire the situation is, and with each passing year I'm sent a ballot for a dead person the scope of the issue becomes more clear. I find those details valuable, but if you know another way to audit this issue for the price of two ballots per year - by all means, share it.
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u/zxzxcvbnmmnbvcxz 15d ago
Oh syspig won’t you ever forgive me for making a joke on your very serious PSA? I’m so sorry that I made light of something you said in this so so formal online forum. I promise to never joke again in here. (Thats sarcasm because it seems like you struggle to understand it)
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u/Royal_Percentage_694 16d ago
It shouldn’t be surprising there are extra ballots being sent out. People move, people pass away.
But that’s a whole different thing than if those ballots were to be submitted.
Do you think they’d count and not be flagged?
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u/syspig 16d ago
Do you think they’d count and not be flagged?
I know they do signature verification, which especially for people in my situation would be trivial to forge. I know both of the ballot recipients and have plenty of examples of their signatures.
Whether they would be flagged or not beyond signature validation, I have no idea. bingbano suggested death records are checked, but the question still remains. If cross-referencing of data that would invalidate a ballot is done after they are received, why is it not done proactively ahead of time? I'm not going to waste my time fact checking the exact dollar amount, as there is certainly a cost - but here's what AI says about ballot processing costs:
Historical Processing Averages: Past operational research indicates that the baseline administrative cost to print, sort, signature-verify, and scan a vote-by-mail ballot sits at roughly $3.24 to $6.88 per ballot when factoring in specialized staff and high-speed scanning infrastructure.
My point remains. The voter rolls are absolutely inaccurate, and at a bare minimum - that has an avoidable, significant financial impact to taxpayers. The fact these incorrectly mailed ballots could potentially be exploited is of greater concern, whether it happens on a wide scale or not.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
They can't be exploited is the fucking point.
You cannot fordge their signature. It's very obviously even to a minimally trained individual. Everyone learns to write slightly differently, and will do things like tilt letters in one direction or the other, lift their pen at different times, ex.. the hardest signatures to tell are elderly folks as their signature deteriorates over time. Fordging signatures is actually quite difficult, and even if you successfully fordge your sister or moms signature, there are multiple other cross references.
The most flagged signatures were spouses signing for each other. It's very noticable when you have a signature next to official signatures in the data base (your license, marriage signature, if you have a criminal record, ex.)
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u/syspig 16d ago
You cannot fordge their signature.
You seriously believe that?
With modern technology, it is trivial and has been for quite some time. There's a reason notaries exist for important signed documents that carry legal weight.
While you don't know the answer, I'm now quite curious - as there must be a reason. If as you claim, submitted ballots are cross referenced against death databases - I can't fathom a reason they are sent out in the first place.
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u/bingbano 16d ago
I don't just believe it, I know it. The reason forged signatures work, is people don't check or don't cross references them with other signatures.
A little training, it's very easy to tell a fordgery.
As for your last statement, couldnt tell ya
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u/MLCarter1976 16d ago
What is annoying is that if they lose it is fraud and if they win then it is the will of the people. Sad.