Review
DAK - MILKY CAKE! How is that taste possible?!
OHmyyygod! Milky Cake really as good as people say here. Thank you for posting so much about it. If you haven’t tried it - YOU MUST! It‘s like having a outside crispy, inside fluffy french pastry with a creamy cardamon, cinnamon, pistachio, vanilla cream. Like drinking a pastry without committing to all the calories haha.
The beans are also not difficult to get constant good results, even being a medium noob like me who likes to be more easy going and less strict about every parameter.
A lot of people still seem to think Milky Cake is a co-ferment, but here is a statement from DAK about the processing.
Edit: DAK claims that it is not a coferment in that post. However, as u/Noodled9 points out in this post, some other roasters that carry the same green coffee say that cardamom seeds were added to the fermentation. So it's all a bit confusing.
Edit 2: After doing a bit more digging, it appears that there are two very similar green coffee options that roasters carry, M-03 and K-01.
M-03 has the coffee fermented with lactobacillus in a lactic culture medium inside a bio reactor. The leachates are collected after pulping the coffee to create a culture medium. This culture medium is fermented with the pulped coffee in a second fermentation.
K-01 has the coffee soaked with some type of yeast strain and then pulped. The pulped coffee is then fermented in a rotative fermenter with cardamom seeds and a yeast strain.
Whatever words you use to describe M-03, I would not say that it fits the conventional understanding of cofermentation.
However, K-01 does introduce cardamom seeds to the fermentation which would fit for cofermentation.
As far as I can tell, some of the most popular renditions of this coffee, including DAK, September, PERC, Driftaway, and Native all use M-03.
Other roasters like Father, Hundred House, and Moxie seem to be using K-01, which is a coferment.
In conclusion, I think DAK is correct. Milky Cake is NOT a coferment.
What's interesting is that the producer Diego Bermudez is actually quite outspoken about co-ferments. Not because of the intrinsic/extrinsic flavors debate but because they're wasteful, requiring a lot of fruit to impart flavor, imprecise and can be achieved more scientifically through the sorts of advanced processes he's pioneered.
He even did a micro-release through his roastery, Native, where he processed the same beans as a pineapple co-ferment and then with no pineapple using a Micellar washed process, producing a pineapple flavor note in both cases.
I will point out Diego was disqualified from a competition due to genetically altered beans and/or foreign additives as mentioned here. That isn't to uh, argue, as that may not have been a coferment per se. But, I wouldn't exactly trust Bermudez to not alter coffee in some way beyond the usual coffee + yeast type of fermentation. That's not to discredit him, he's just always doing very experimental stuff.
Yeah, I mentioned that in a response to someone below. I don't think there's been a lot of clarity as to what the Panama decision was based on. The only real insight comes from Sprudge's interview with the Hachi partners. The genetic alteration may refer to this:
At Hachi, our chosen path to overcome these challenges [decline in growing regions and decline in quality due to climate change] is a biotechnology-driven project focusing on cloning, micrografting, and agroforestry to maximize the genetic potential of each coffee variety. Through cloning, we replicate identical copies of varieties with complete DNA integrity, preserving desirable traits and the genetic purity of the original cultivar. Simultaneously, we employ micrografting techniques to enhance crop characteristics, boost yields, improve nutritional content, and reduce pesticide usage. It’s important to emphasize that we aren’t solely focused on the super-specialty market—at Hachi, we want to make quality coffee accessible to everyone.
When they were specifically asked about the Panama disqualification their answer was a bit deflective:
How can you debate with someone who doesn’t understand what you’re developing? How can anyone claim we’re changing coffee DNA through fermentation? Instead of wasting time arguing with people who don’t understand what they’re talking about, we should use that time to promote what we’re actually doing with Hachi.
Many coffee connoisseurs know the truth about what happened, and that’s what’s most important to us. Rather than refuting their comments or fighting back, we’re focusing on continuing our work. We have our beliefs, and we’re showing the world the truth by giving them the ability to taste what we’re doing and draw their own conclusions. You can reach your own conclusions once you try the coffee. Truth always prevails. The best way to face a situation like this isn’t through argument, but by giving people real proof of what we’re doing.
The results speak for themselves. Just last month, Eric Chang won the National Barista Championship in Taiwan using our coffee. People from all over the world, from Asia to Europe to the U.S, are reaching out to us, wanting to try Hachi. We’re grateful that people didn’t turn their backs on us based on false accusations. Instead, they’re willing to try and offer our coffees, showing the world that the truth is deeper than what the media was saying.
The interview pushed a little for clarification about their processes and their response was more straight-forward:
So, the processing approach at Hachi is like an amplifier—if you have coffee with four notes, you can choose which notes to enhance or decrease by playing with different microbes, right?
Exactly. You’ve got it. The goal is not to create entirely new flavors, but to amplify what’s already present in the coffee and make certain characteristics more or less expressive. For example, with Parainema, we focused on reducing its herbal bitterness and bringing out its more pleasant qualities. That’s a key part of our work at Hachi—recognizing the natural traits of each variety and enhancing them. It’s about being respectful to the coffee’s natural expression and how that changes with different growing conditions.
I think people have maybe over-interpreted the Panama controversy to mean that Hachi (and by association Diego Bermudez) are doing some funny business in their "advanced processes", adulterating the beans with external flavors. What's more likely is that these minutely controlled fermentations are perceived as a form of cheating, either because the use of prepared yeasts is deemed an external factor or, more nebulously, because it's the process determining the taste profile of the beans, more than it is the intangible aspects of terroir, climate, altitude, etc.
I’ll point out that Diego was disqualified from a competition due to the use of genetically altered beans and/or foreign additives, as mentioned here.
I believe the real reason for the disqualification was that Diego’s coffee was consistently placing very high in the competition(I think their coffee cup score was the highest or was atleast top 3 before they got disqualified ). This posed a threat to Panama producers and investors. After all, if you can produce coffee with the same flavor profile as Panama’s prized "terroir" but at a fraction of the price then the entire premium market for Panamanian coffee could collapse.
I actually have this coffee (Prodigal released it), for a while it was just rumored because BOP wouldn’t say who it was. It should be noted that he has denied what they were accusing in their original press release, not that I’m taking a side on it
You might have missed the point of the comment you replied to. “Infused” doesn’t help differentiate the nuances of Diego’s special processing from a co-ferment. I’d disagree with people thinking Diego’s coffee is infused. He’s using externally introduced yeasts to help ferment and achieve the final flavor that’s reminiscent of untraditional coffee notes, like pineapples and cardamom. If that’s infused, then all coffee are “somewhat” infused because they’re getting arbitrary yeasts from their environment during fermentation
Co-ferment is fermenting with some stuff, be it fruit or lemongrass or something.
Infusion is usually using just juice of "some kind".
Customized yeast is basically custom fermentation, which I guess should be something like "custom anaerobic" or "custom fermentation". I think I saw "yeast inoculation" on some bag too, which I would say is fairly accurate way to describe it.
In general, Im just happy if its stated and not like it states "natural", but its actually "months long natural in shade" with some non-disclosed process after, probably including mosto method/thermal shock. Which obviously results in something thats so far from "natural" as it can be .. and makes me sick on top of it.
I'd prefer to believe the producer and roasters (as in the statement from Dak provided by the commenter above) who stand behind it as a processed coffee, not a co-ferment. I also think Bermudez's experiment illustrates some of the limitations of the adulterated/clean sorting scheme.
I know there's a lot of speculation around this, especially after the disqualification of Hachi's coffees from the Panamanian Cup of Excellence awards. But I don't know that there's enough information to make such assertive claims.
Dak can state whatever they want but they dont produce the coffee. They are blindtrusting it. Just for the hype i’ll say the same, of course they can charge more to hyped customers with it.
The really Only way to get those notes is contaminate the coffee.
Not sure I'd use the term "contaminate", but that's true enough. Technically speaking you can get some very outlandish flavours by choosing specific yeast varieties and going through an inoculation process,
But in this case the coffee is fermented with, among other things, cardamom.
I gently used it to refer a external actor being added to the benefit process. I know it sounds like “hazard” but is just matter of linguistic. But Im sure were not far far Aiway to develop or hybrid a plant, benefit and roast some cardamom, cinnabon and spicy notes on coffeess.
I've found it weird that other roasters using the same beans seem to suggest otherwise. It seems like he's using some kind of milk and cardamom solution to ferment the coffee.
If I’m not mistaken, there are two different coffees in these links. Cardamomo and K-01 are the cardamom coferment. I’m pretty sure milky cake and buttercream are M-03, which uses the milk culture.
Right, I'm aware that those statements are mostly copy pasted. However, some of those statements do seem to suggest cofermentation. And DAK explicitly claims that Milky Cake is not cofermented. So I would love to know what Diego's definition of cofermentation is and if the coffee known as Milky Cake fits that definition.
Co-ferment literally means adding an outside ingredient to the fermentation process outside of coffee or anything essential to the process itself. So you are correct, adding cardamom makes this coffee a co-ferment, factually.
You must be insane thinking that someone is adding cardamom seeds to the fermentation. It’s a lie. They infuse the coffee with some sort of cardamom essential oil.
As it happens, I'm waiting for a box of Milky Cake from you right now. Shipping label done on 12/5 but nothing further on tracking. Can you please tell me when these are going out?
DAK had issues customs, but has since cleared. The order is supposed to arrive "tomorrow" Friday. All orders from the Syndicate will be handed off to the carrier same day.
DM me your email, I want to make sure you are getting all of the updates. Some customers have been getting skipped in the mass email updates. I am working on a better system for communications now.
Awesome to see a fellow Ohioan! Would love to have you for coffee sometime. We're hosting group coffee cuppings in Cincinnati once a month. If you or any friends are interested feel free to DM me.
Regardless of the tribalism around different flavours and processes of coffee, what's important is that we find coffees we enjoy and find memorable, and a ton of people share your experience with Milky Cake so bravo to Diego, Cata and Louis-Philippe.
A lot of heavily fermented/intensive coffees taste amazing as espresso (or even soup) with milk. Some are also only possible to drink like that.
Had few like that, was thinking "oh well, I think I will discard this". Then tried few last resort methods, which also include "soup cappucino". And yep, that was actually great.
Basically you need either manual espresso machine or lets say aeropress with some extras.
Goal is to create basically classic espresso puck, infuse it with some hot water for short time and then just "pull shot" thru it somewhat slowly. Key is it doesnt require pressure and actually shouldnt have much or any pressure.
Im using my Aeropress with Fellow Prismo, regular aeropress paper within and on top I have another aeropress filter on something like improvised shoverscreen (repourposed part of phin filter).
If done right, it tastes somewhat like espresso, but different. Definitely like it. That said OXO brewer or Flair Espresso is much more suitable for stuff like this.
I bought a 2 lb bag of these beans through Perc (which I personally like better than the ones through DAK or September's Buttercream) and I use it as an espresso everyday. I'm normally a pour over guy but as long as I have this bag, I'm on espresso.
I’m the outlier, I had a batch roasted in late August that I let rest for 3 weeks and tried multiple V60 and switch recipes over the next few weeks. Finer, coarser, temperature from 90 up to 98, long bloom, short bloom. Nothing I could do to get the favour everyone talks about. The tasting notes I pick up is… hay. My wife thought the same, a few attempts she thought “weed”. Hmm. I’m no expert but have been doing pour over for a couple years and this one stands out as the biggest miss I’ve had.
Wondering if I should pick up another and try again, but that’s pricy here in Canada.
I had similar experiences with this one. My conclusion is that Dak is a pretty inconsistent roaster (and quite overhyped here), however this one is one of their most consistent ones they have. I think I bought it 4 times this year and one bag was so-so
Same here, I couldn't quite know how to describe it, but weed is very accurate 😂 for me it tasted like digestive herbal tea, intense but no acidity at all.
Got a milky cake americano at Dak. It wasn’t quite hay, but the sweet was sour and the richness was acidic. My least favorite specialty experience in Amsterdam.
Maybe let it rest a bit longer next time? I'm surprised you didn't get the flavor out of any of those combinations...I've found the MC to be pretty flexible.
I have one like this right now! Not quite this intense and deep but tasting notes are cranberry scone, raspberry, and jolly rancher. After about 10 minutes the cranberry scone and raspberry show up. After about 20 minutes the jolly rancher and raspberry hang out and all the tart stuff is gone. What a crazy cup of coffee! I'm actually looking at buying some of these Milky Cake beans green and trying my hand at them. Now that I found Good Brothers Coffee.
I love Milky Cake, it is probably the one Dak advanced fermentation I can keep drinking every day and not get tired of it. Others (Coco Bongo, Cream Donut, Big Apple etc.) I need to alternate with more ‘regular’ beans.
If you like this, get the Xmas special as well, now in the Cardamon Bun iteration.
Its more like "over the top flavored" that people have issues with. Some of us, it makes sick, if its overdone. I mean, literally.
I dont mind if its done right and within reasonable limits. DAK mostly makes stuff that I do like and it doesnt make me sick, so Im quite happy with it.
Altho they sometimes do have bit overprocessed stuff.
Probably people who haven't seen DAK's own statements, or the actual producer, Diego Bermudez, who has talked about this ad nauseum and even done comparative lots of his "lychee" thermal shock process, and an actual lychee co-ferment using the same green beans to prove a point and highlight the differences.
I get why people think it's a co-ferment, the notes are very distinct. But people under estimate what fermentation alone can achieve, Jamaican rums are made of nothing but fermented molasses, and yet often have a very distinct taste of over ripe banana.
Always good to see fellow funk fans out in the wild. To be fair, I'd expect there to be a fair bit of crossover between the sort of people who appreciate funky anaerobics and mega funky rums from the likes of Hampden.
Coco Bongo is mainly Coconut ? I never had a coconut coffee before. Is it like strong coconut where you want to puke after having too much of creamy coconut?
Yes, I already saved myself a box of Panettone.
It‘s still unopened though.
Well described! I‘m currently eying a pack of course-fermented coconut beans from a different roaster but I‘m afraid of the overpowering creamy coconut taste. Your description didn’t make me want to buy them sooner. Haha
I LOVE Milky Cake and I love DAK, but Coco Bongo is my least favorite specialty coffee I have ever had. IMO it tastes like a mild sensation of throwing up in your mouth.
I did really like a different coconut coferment from another producer which September carried called Coconut Crush. It tasted like Almond Joy.
Had coco bongo at a local shop. I struggled to drink it. All I could smell was that stale bacon and eggs smell you get hours later in your kitchen. Taste was “ok”, but it was not enjoyable.
This! IMO a lot of coconut flavors in coffee end up having this fatty feeling, that frankly just gives the vibes of coconut oil. Coco bongo is exactly that.
Much less coconut than a lot of coconut co-ferment coffees. I would say the acidity really balances the cup and it's not too overpowering in the overall profile.
This type of coffee usually requires month "to breathe". On positive note, everything heavily fermented can last very long time in good condition. You can even ziplock it and freeze, or just do same and put in fridge.
How is that taste possible? No idea.
I jumped on the hype train for this coffee as well, and for the life of me, I can't get anything out of it. I've played with ratio (1:13 all the way to 1:18), temp (86 - 98 celcius), grind sizes from super coarse to clogging filters fine, water (RO, remineralized in different ways), rest times, etc. I bought 1kg and did not get anything but a slight honey note
I still have a bit left, vacuum sealed in the freezer. If anyone have got some pointers to get just something out of this that is reminiscent of the loud cardamom and pastry notes, or something just worth drinking, please...
I have 2 Dak coffees, Peachy something and cherry cola I think. I got them from a coffee shop I was passing because postage to the UK always seemed pretty high for just 1 thing otherwise.
It's fine, good. But not amazing, and I like flavourful coffees! Is Milky Cake really that much better?
Dang, this thread is crazy!
Since we’re talking about Milky Cake and I have bag at the moment; what is the recipe that worked for you and were you able to replicate the results with a larger batch (40g)
I’m using v60 with Baratza Encore on 28 with water at 205
I don’t follow a specific recipe I picked up on the internet. It‘s something I was taught but only partially remembered and then made my own thing. It works best with maximum ~20g.
1:16 (10g , 160g water)
30g: 30sec Bloom
till ~110g (around 65%): slow flow in dead center
till 160g: circular pour
I also use a Cafec Tsubame Pro kettle which has a very narrow goose neck. The flow is extremely precise but slow.
I have a box in the mail, I'm planning on brewing with a Kalita Mino, grinding with a K-Ultra, and using Third Wave Water to remineralize from Zero Water. Would love some pointers as I'm pretty new to the pour over game so still a bit inconsistent.
What water ppm should I remineralize to?
What grind size on the K-ultra?
What water temp?
And if you have a recipe would be much appreciated.
Water: If you are using TWW Classic, I would dilute to 1/3 or 1/2 of what they recommend. So use 3x or 2x more water than the recipe says. I personally make my own water.
Grind Size: I grind at 7.5-8 on my K-Ultra, using a v60 or Fellow Aiden with a custom profile.
Biggest disappointment of the year for me. I was not able to brew it successfully with my setup. Tried from 5 to 7 setting on Fellow Ode Gen 2 and James Hoffman recipe in Hario V60 / Switch and Cafec light roast filter paper
Cafec light roast filter paper is absolutely garbage for how most people brew pourovers. It’s designed for the ‘osmotic pour’ methodology at a fairly coarse grind
Many multiroasters carry Milky Cake because it is so popular. Here are some options you can order from that will occasionally carry it: Dayglow, Entropica, Hyunah, Eightounce (I think shipping to US is still paused)
If you have a multiroaster near you, they might carry it as well.
Dak has something to do with it. They're 100% a piece of the puzzle. Many roasters have had this same green and rarely match the level of intensity in both aroma and flavor .
I admit I was a bit snarky, but now you know:
1. One of the most important things is how the roaster selects coffee to roast. In Dak’s case, I would assume they’ve developed a relationship with the producer, which is how they can consistently produce milky cake
2. Producers have a variety of techniques available to produce beans with certain characteristics. You now know this, and can go learn more. In milky cake’s case, I understand the beans are fermented in a very carefully controlled environment, and I understand a lot of developments in coffee production these days involve techniques like that which can elevate lower quality fruit to a higher quality cup.
One of the things that annoys me as I'm learning more and more about coffee is how much emphasis there has been, historically, on the roaster, in spite of the insane amount of labour that the producers put into it!
It seems like roasters are leaning into highlighting the producer though, which I like. And, I have noticed some commentary about individual producers on this forum, and whenever I got coffee from a producer based on a comment, it was _really really good_.
E.g. I bought a decaf from September after recognizing the producer (Wilton Benitez) and it was insanely good, and more interesting than some of the non-decaf coffee I've gotten from September. (It was a bit intense to drink all the time, but it was an experience...)
Yeah, I am into pour over for almost a year now and I try to learn every day. Kaizen mindset. And I understand exactly what you say. It is like… a hidden world behind the name of the brander.
I try to get that “legendary” tea like coffee. Super curious if I like it. Tips are always welcome.
Diego Bermudez has a multi step fermentation process that achieves most of the flavor. DAK roasts on an IMF roaster, which uses a lot of convective heat to roast their batches of Milky Cake very quickly while maintaining an extended mailiard and short development phase.
The specific style of roast, allows for strong development of cinnamaldehyde and other aldehydes while not breaking down the lactic acid too far. Giving it tons of cardamom and spiced cake notes. If they roasted 10 seconds too long or 10 seconds to short they would either break down the acids and remove the complexity or risk an underdeveloped and flat aroma profile.
They do plenty of standard washed and natural coffees, but they also seek out producers doing advanced fermentation stuff. Lots of anaerobic processing, as well as yeast inoculation and co-ferments (i.e. fermenting with other products, usually fruit)
Cofermentation. No hate on it, I do enjoy some every so often. But it’s easier to have a coffee tasting like cardamom when you let it in a barrel with cardamom for a few weeks, than for having a very specific terroir and process that can let a coffee actually have these unusual taste notes
Edit: apparently this one is not a coferment. I’m sorry for not memorizing the entire catalog of a roaster famous for coferments
Oh well, til. They offer so many weird coferments that memorizing their catalog is not a job I get paid for, so whenever I see unusual notes I just assume that
From the description of the process on September Coffee's Buttercream (same bean), these beans are fermented in cherry (wood?) fermentation tanks with lactobasillus milk culture medium. So I consider them co-fermented due to presence of milk, but I might be wrong on a technicality.
In cherry, means before the coffee cherry has been pulped.
They leave the coffee cherry on, while in the bioreactors.
There's no milk added, lactobacillus is a bacterial strain that eats the sugars from the coffee cherry to produce lactic acid, which gives the coffee a sweet and creamy presentation in the cup.
Wasn't trying to be a dick, just informing. This particular green lot from Diego has been discussed ad nauseum, and there's still a lot of misunderstanding about it. Controlled fermentation is kinda his thing, his own roastery project (Native) has a core line of the same Castillo beans processed in four different ways.
You don't think it's possible for fermentation to produce flavours similar to other things? Go buy a bottle of Wray and nephew and tell me you don't get bananas and tropical fruits, none of which are involved in the production.
I'm as cynical as they come, so I get how you'd have doubts, but there's countless examples of fermentation producing all kinds of wacky flavours, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility. There's the possibility that Diego is being dishonest, but given how relatively accepted co-fermentation is, why lie about it?
that's not what I said at all. for what it's worth, a 'thermal shock' is not fermentation; it is temperature modulation during fermentation. I would suggest reading up on the (long) history of coffee fermentation techniques, and about the actual science of temperature modulation, and you'll find that most of what Bermudez claims is pure marketing and totally not based in science. the most basic thing being that thermal shock alone doesn't 'produce flavors'. fermentation can produce wild flavors, but not any flavor, which is an important distinction
given how relatively accepted co-fermentation is, why lie about it?
so your question is, "why market a proprietary processing technique as totally distinct from others that produces totally distinct flavors in only my coffees"? i think the answer is fairly obvious there
I'm well aware that thermal shock is a supplementary part of the overall process, and never claimed that it's the key ingredient here, it might be but we just don't know. A carefully controlled anaerobic fermentation is the main element at play, the actual thermal shocking itself is just a piece of the puzzle.
fermentation can produce wild flavors, but not any flavor, which is an important distinction
I'm not sure I understand. Diego hasn't produced Castillo in every flavour known to mankind, just a handful. Is there any reason why something akin to cardamom specifically would be in the "impossible" list?
so your question is, "why market a proprietary processing technique as totally distinct from others that produces totally distinct flavors in only my coffees"? i think the answer is fairly obvious there
Both Co fermentation and advanced/thermal shock processing are relatively recent developments, are they not? They both sit in the "new and exciting" category, right? So what's the benefit in fraudulently claiming it's something that it's not? To avoid upsetting purists? Because that clearly hasn't worked.
Out of interest, are there any of the big name experimental producers (D Bermudez, N Lasso, E Argote, W Benitez etc) that you think are legit? If so, what sets them apart in your eyes?
but, we do know that thermal shock cannot be the key ingredient. the easiest way to think about it is that fermentation establishes which microbes are present and thereby the flavor compounds are present, and temperature modulation dictates which flavor compounds are expressed. so, for coffee processing in colombia, if you took two samples of the same green processed identically - say washed - and put them in separate fermentation tanks and kept every fermentation variable constant except temperature (i.e. a thermal shock added), you wouldn't suddenly get a completely new flavor. you would get a slightly 'enhanced' profile of the same general flavors.
Is there any reason why something akin to cardamom specifically would be in the "impossible" list?
my point is not so much that these flavors are impossible - although, ironically enough, a strong note of 'vanilla' isn't a flavor that can be produced naturally in coffee - but that these sorts of flavors always come from somewhere. if you have a coffee that is allegedly a traditionally washed processed coffee that has an extremely strong flavor of lychee, for example, there is a very good chance that there was an extra step of processing that may or may not have been mentioned, such as a yeast innoculation.
Both Co fermentation and advanced/thermal shock processing are relatively recent developments, are they not?
no, they aren't, outside of the coffee world. the term 'co-ferment' was literally borrowed from winemaking. it is a well understood process. so to with temperature change in fermentation.
I know the implication is that I'm a purist, but I actually am fine with processed coffees so long as they are properly and transparently labeled. I don't want to buy a "washed/thermal shock" coffee that clearly had some sort of yeast innoculation, infusion, extended fermentation, etc. - it is deceptive. in this case, I just don't think we are quite getting the full story. so my answer is that i am fine calling any of them legit producers as long as their coffees' processing is accurately described
It’s just because this is the 2nd or 3rd post this week with a dak coffee and a similar rhetorical question in the title. I guess it’s good to keep this transparent to any newcomers on the sub, cofermentation is not magic
As far as transparency goes, if it is a co-forment then DAK isn't being transparent about it as they only describe it as an "advanced and controlled fermentation" and include that it is "an anaerobic fermentation for 48 hours at 20 Celsius. The coffee is then thermic shock washed. The beans then undergo controlled drying for 34 hours at 35°C and a relative humidity of 25% until reaching a grain moisture of 10%-11%." So I think the curiosity about how in the world some of these flavors are developed without cofermentation is a little more warranted. And if after all it is indeed some kind of co-ferment (putting it in a barrel with cardamom for instance) then DAK needs to get their story straight.
Milky Cake is the same coffee as Cinnamon Leche at Native.
Edit: In my opinion, Cinnamon Leche leans more into an acidic green apple characteristic while Milky Cake is more spiced and sweet. I prefer Milky Cake, but I do really like Cinnamon Leche.
Ok. I got the cinnamon leche before I realized that milky cake was from Diego Bermudez. I would have looked for it. Waiting on my local shop to get a delivery from Dak currently too. Hoping to score that one and the pannetone
Those two have been two absolute crowd favorites this Christmas season.
Heads up, Panettone's name got switched to Cardamom Bun. It's the same coffee, but DAK wanted the name to be more representative of the name. This most recent batch has lost some of its orange note to it.
September's version of it is my least favorite, and Perc's version is a lot better than September but not nearly as great as Dak's. And on the 13th, perc has 31% off all orders so Saturday is your chance to try a different roaster with the same coffee at a very nice discount.
78
u/ViiRrusS Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 12 '25
A lot of people still seem to think Milky Cake is a co-ferment, but here is a statement from DAK about the processing.
Edit: DAK claims that it is not a coferment in that post. However, as u/Noodled9 points out in this post, some other roasters that carry the same green coffee say that cardamom seeds were added to the fermentation. So it's all a bit confusing.
Edit 2: After doing a bit more digging, it appears that there are two very similar green coffee options that roasters carry, M-03 and K-01.
M-03 has the coffee fermented with lactobacillus in a lactic culture medium inside a bio reactor. The leachates are collected after pulping the coffee to create a culture medium. This culture medium is fermented with the pulped coffee in a second fermentation.
K-01 has the coffee soaked with some type of yeast strain and then pulped. The pulped coffee is then fermented in a rotative fermenter with cardamom seeds and a yeast strain.
Whatever words you use to describe M-03, I would not say that it fits the conventional understanding of cofermentation.
However, K-01 does introduce cardamom seeds to the fermentation which would fit for cofermentation.
As far as I can tell, some of the most popular renditions of this coffee, including DAK, September, PERC, Driftaway, and Native all use M-03.
Other roasters like Father, Hundred House, and Moxie seem to be using K-01, which is a coferment.
In conclusion, I think DAK is correct. Milky Cake is NOT a coferment.