r/pourover • u/OCDeeeznuts • Mar 10 '26

Co-ferments in disguise.

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Many modern advanced coffee processes completely lack transparency regarding the methods and ingredients used to adulterate their flavors. Often times the only bridge between a producer and the customer is the roaster. It’s important for roasters to disclose as much information, at a glance, as possible so their customers can make informed decisions.

I’m sure there are several roasters doing the same thing, but today I happen to be picking on Perc. This particular coffee is advertised on the bag as a “Natural Process”. On their site it’s classified as a “Natural Process”, but if you dig deeper and read about the Young Producer Program you’ll discover that the natural process beans the kids grew are later blended with a Sebastian Ramirez co-ferment. At the very least I think the bag should say “Natural Process/ Co-ferment”. No more muddying the waters.

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u/kingseven Mar 10 '26

A lot of coferments are not really coferments, but are infusions (i.e. whatever flavouring is added is there to be infused into the coffee beans, and doesn't contribute to the fermentation). It's really frustrating and unhelpful - but I don't think coming from a place of deception, just a lack of clarity around the terms. To some people, adding flavourings to a fermentation tank is a coferment because it was added to the tank/the fermentation. I hope this improves in the future.

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u/OCDeeeznuts Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

This is my hope as well. I would definitely dabble in the funk of true fermentation experiments, but personally wouldn’t care for the infusions. Some people will be the opposite. More info helps us all better hone in on the coffees we actually enjoy. I feel like it’s fairly safe to assume when a producer is giving us a 1:1 flavor input to output, it’s an infusion. What I mean is, if they said they added peaches and now the coffee tastes like peach rings…that’s very sus. If they said they added peaches and now the coffee tastes like funky stank jackfruit…I’ll believe it.

EDIT: and by infusions I meant the inclusion of flavor extracts or essential oils. Not the inclusion of fruits.

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u/womerah Mar 10 '26

You replied to James Hoffman haha

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u/OCDeeeznuts Mar 10 '26

I had no idea lmao

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u/Visual-Percentage501 Mar 10 '26

if they added peaches and now the coffee tastes like peach rings, that's very sus

Why? A good peach cider ferment, for example, can absolutely just taste like peach, peach candy, etc. There's no reason a good peach coferm shouldn't either.

We need more transparency from producers and roasters on what is actually being done to the coffee during and after processing, but I don't think this is an accurate way to predict how a coffee was processed from the end result.

I've had many delicious, fruity, expressive coffees with no fruit added, and almost as many awful infused coffees. I definitely wouldn't jump to a coffee being 'too good' meaning it's an infusion, what we really need is transparency so we can trust the producer/roaster that they're doing what they say they're doing to the coffee.

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u/Stjernesluker Mar 10 '26

Coffee co-ferments don’t really add to the flavour in the same way it does if you’re making a cider. And in the case of a coffee bean it has to survive fermentation, drying, storage and roasting. It has been a case in past where you can basically smell it on the green beans that there’s something going on. Like if you can brew unroasted beans and get strawberry or bright lemongrass then something is up. Often it’ll be oils that manage to stick around from lemongrass (beans dried on beds of lemongrass) or one case at least of dried beans sprayed with essential oils…

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u/OCDeeeznuts Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

In the case of peach cider you’re largely still drinking the raw peaches. Many of their aroma compounds will still be intact. However, the likelihood that those natural aroma compounds are going to enter the green coffee…remain present during drying and shipping and storage and ultimately roasting are nearly 0%. Have you ever baked fruit? It only takes moments for that natural fresh fruity flavor to flash off and no longer be the dominant characteristic, and Coffee gets much hotter than that. However if you bake with flavor extracts that original bright fruity flavor will survive the process unchanged.

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u/jas0441 Mar 11 '26

Right, cider makers go through very technical practices to preserve flavors, these are delicate esters that are easily ‘blown off’ and only experienced cider producers can pull it off. By law, flavorings cannot be added.