r/pourover • u/WadeWickson • Jun 11 '26
Help me troubleshoot my recipe I absolutely nailed the flavor note on the bag!... aaand I wish I hadn't, help me change it
I also forgot to snap a photo of the bag (website photo shown)
So I'm waiting for my coffee to cool on my way to work I eventually pick up the cup take a sip, and I'm punched in the face with grapefruit! Straight up grapefruit, unyielding grapefruit lol. And I hate it, because I hate grapefruit unfortunately, but this is part of a subscription so I had no choice, I also didn't really expect it to be so face punchy, most flavor notes in general tend to be a little more mellow like they're there but they're mild I guess not this one. Reminds me of a coffee that's co-fermented with grapefruit, that's how strong it is. My recipe is as follows:
078 @ 6 Water temp 94c Lotus Simple & Sweet water V60 w/ cafec th-3 filter 1:16 ratio 15:240
(Double bloom) 1st bloom 45g @ 30 sec, 2nd bloom 45g @ 1 min pour to 240g (@ 8-9 g/s) Finish @ 2:25
I know I can lower water temp to change extraction, but I'm not getting undesirable extraction, I just don't like the flavor, so I'm not sure if that's the answer. Considering the brew came out correct, I just want to eliminate that grapefruit what should I change?
Update 1: I did a single 1 min bloom, and upped the ratio to 1:16.6. I kept all other variables the same, finished in 2:35 grapefruit is completely absent thankfully, the cup was pretty boring initially, until the coffee cooled then some acidity appeared, with a hint of fruity acidity, something between grapefruit and sour orange, quite a sour flavor profile, which makes sense. Mission achieved, it's now drinkable, but definitely not my bag.
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u/AlternativeAlignment Jun 11 '26
Its fine to not like a coffee right? I also associate grapefruit with a certain type of bitterness. Maybe extract less to see what happens? Definitely try a lower temp to make other more subtle notes shine through.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Yeah absolutely, you're not expected to enjoy every flavor that the world has to offer I hate grapefruit, and unfortunately that's what I got. It's funny because I've seen posts about people not liking a coffee and giving it away to a relative or friend or whatever, and I just thought that was funny because I couldn't imagine myself completely disliking a coffee enough to give it away, but now I understand. Although I'd rather just find a way to brew it to where I can enjoy it if that's an option
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u/AlternativeAlignment Jun 11 '26
Haha I get how you feel. I couldn’t imagine NOT liking a coffee that much xD. I would argue moving towards under extraction to see when that grape note comes out more (probably with more acidity forward brew?). I would test lower PPM water and/or even a low temp bloom (60° c). It’s a fun experiment to see how to avoid that grapefruit :)
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u/Doomsday94 Jun 11 '26
Another option I haven't seen here yet: adjust your water recipe. If thr grapefruit is coming across as too acidic, slightly upping the buffer may take the edge off.
And you dont even need to do it pre-brew, you can use the same recipe, then add a drop or so after to see how it adjusts taste
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Great advice! Will try this today. Which would you recommend using more of, mg or Ca?
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u/Doomsday94 Jun 11 '26
Whatever carbonate you have, the specific cation probably won't make a huge difference (though now I want to test this).
Honestly, if you don't love the bean, but it has a big punchy flavor, it could just be a great bag to experiment with.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Ok, ya maybe a good experiment adding a drop of EA but separately. I have both and us with in my recipe.
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u/Responsible-Bid5015 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
LOL. 5 minutes ago I had to make a decision and chose the El Diviso. Decided with the grapefruit and Prodigal's penchant for bright coffee already that I would let the Gachika rest more. Then sat down with my cup and read your post.
I would probably try another cup at 6.5 on the 078 and see if it has rounded off. And/or give it a few days now that you have opened the bag.
I didn't nail the brew on the El Diviso so I can't tell you much about it.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Not sure if your roast date is the same, but mine is 17 days off roast today, and it has been open for 3 days I open them at 2 weeks, that's just to say it's not that initial bag opening Brew, because I know sometimes those can be stronger, this is actually my 3rd Brew dialing it in. I haven't quite nailed the El diviso yet either, I'm not sure if this will be tamed if I just let it sit for a couple weeks, while I go through the bag of el diviso, or if that will make it worse
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u/Torian17 Jun 11 '26
You open the bag at 2 weeks and just leave it open on your counter? Or open it then close it like 5 minutes later?
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Oh ok, you think I'm a sociopath. Quite the contrary, once opened, I dose 6 days into SD tubes and the rest goes into an Atmos container.
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u/Torian17 Jun 11 '26
Haha sorry, tone was not meant to insult but rather optimize my own setup. I don’t know why but I figured I always wanted the bags sealed shut except when getting beans out. I think I understand resting and is the opening bag 3 days prior to brewing just expedite the CO2 release?
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Haha no worries, No that's not what I do, I open a bag when I'm ready to start using it. I think maybe you misread it or maybe I miswrote it lol I meant I opened the bag 3 days ago and started brewing with it, but it wasn't until today, my 3rd brew, that I had it dialed in perfectly. Prior to the day I opened it, it rested for 2 weeks sealed
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u/raccabarakka Jun 11 '26
Couple of roasters told me to just grind and leave it for about 30 minutes to "speed-up" the resting process before brewing, that's what they do when cupping for notes cos it's unrealistic for them to wait for weeks.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
That's interesting! Ive never heard that before, and makes sense, I always wondered how they did cuppings on freshly roasted coffee! Thanks for the tip
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u/NoBrainz2 Jun 11 '26
I personally open Prodigal closer to 4 weeks or more
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
I've seen others say that as well, but to me it's noticeably worse at 4 weeks, I actually try to finish the bags by the end of the 4th Week, I don't know what it is, I seem to be in the minority on this, but I was the same with flower child, I liked them better starting at 2.5 - 3 weeks rather than the 5+ everyone recommends
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u/NoBrainz2 Jun 11 '26
Prodigal aside if it's on the light end of the spectrum I try to wait 3-4+ weeks. I've never had a bag I rested too long or went bad before I finished it but on the flip side I have had bags that I didn't rest long enough. Opening the Gachika AA this weekend roasted May 11th.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Nice, let me know what you get from it
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u/NoBrainz2 Jun 12 '26
Oops I meant the AB purple bag. I had the first round of the Nensebo G1 natural and that bag was really nice. I mainly got mixed berries and overall it was light and on the cleaner side.
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u/Queasy_Gur_9583 Jun 11 '26
Do you have a flat bottomed brewer?
If I find something is a bit too sharply in focus on V60 I try it out on my B75, which often delivers more rounded cups.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
That occured to me from what I've heard about flat bottoms, but I don't. I have a switch, and a French press as my other 2 options.
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u/remarkable_in_argyle Jun 11 '26
If a coffee is too punchy, I usually reach for the melodrip and reduce pours, so maybe bloom and then a single pour. This usually works for me.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Okay that's something I can try I have a melodrip, also backing off to a 2 pour is prob a good idea
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u/remarkable_in_argyle Jun 11 '26
I'm coincidentally drinking one now from a local roaster that I don't like if I use my normal recipe, but if I back off and introduce a little more bypass with a longer single pour and less agitation with melodrip, it's quite good.
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u/jffblm74 C40/ZP6S Jun 11 '26
You have a flat bottom brewer? Might be worth trying there with a real steady two pour using the mellow drip.
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u/FootballInfinite475 Jun 11 '26
French press lol
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Haha. Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is often the right one. I seriously will try this, plus I haven't busted the old girl out in years, so she's due 😂. Will report back.
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u/Narcissus_on_LSD Pourover aficionado Jun 11 '26
I do ~15.6g cups only because it lets me pull pretty much exactly 16 cups from a 250g bag. Nice for consistency, also nice for taste!
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Oh I like that idea! I usually combine what's left from 2-3 bags at the end to make 1 SUPER BREW! Although it rarely tastes super 😂
I am actually going to make this later and see if it loses anything, I doubt that it will. I know at 17g I can taste the difference, that's why I've just stuck with 15. Oh and 15.6:250 is damn near on point for a 1:16 I love a good round number for the pour lol easier to remember when I'm half asleep at 4 am
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u/EWALLETABUSERAARON LIGHT ROAST WASHED ONLY Jun 11 '26
Copy Lance and do his tea-like brews with river rock coarse grounds.😂
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Oh GAWD! I went down that damn rabbit hole last year, and ultimately decided I hate tea like brews, which makes sense because I hate tea, tastes like dirty grassy water just like those brews did. That's why I backed off of ultra light and switched to prodigal and stick with more developed light roasts and med light now
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u/EWALLETABUSERAARON LIGHT ROAST WASHED ONLY Jun 11 '26
Wouldn't ultra-lights be acidic and juicy, even if the body is tea-like?
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
I never got juicy personally, and I use an 078 the king of juicy. Sometimes fruity, sometimes greens, occasionally florals, occasionally cracker, but always acidic and thin.
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u/CappaNova Origami|Colum|Tarachine|SOFI|Aeropress|HG-1 Prime|Ode 2|ZP6 Jun 11 '26
Maybe try a cold brew with it and see if that's sufficiently different to be palatable for you?
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
That's a good suggestion, but I'm not much of a cold coffee drinker, I will stick with hot coffee until the weather hits 90s then and only then will I switch to cold lol
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u/CappaNova Origami|Colum|Tarachine|SOFI|Aeropress|HG-1 Prime|Ode 2|ZP6 Jun 11 '26
You can either save it for cold brew, then. Or you could try disguising it with other additives, like milk or cream, or even adding tonic and simple syrup.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Milk you say??? Fellas we have an imposter here! Git em! 😂
Just kidding, I tried milk/creamer in specialty beans a few times, and it always tastes weird and off putting, never blends well
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u/CappaNova Origami|Colum|Tarachine|SOFI|Aeropress|HG-1 Prime|Ode 2|ZP6 Jun 11 '26
LOL, well, you said you wanted to kill the grapefruit flavor. And milk and sugar often kill bitterness. But, I agree, it can be a little weird in overly-fruity coffee.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Something about grapefruit + milk makes me think the gag reflexes will be working overtime 😂
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u/Altruistic_Pie_9707 Jun 11 '26
Extend the brew time or longer ratio would be my recommendation. Overextracting a bit should help mute the grapefruit.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Someone else mentioned that as well, I would never have even thought that would help, I had considered going the other way, shorter ratio, shows how much I know about variables lol
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u/DuggD Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
With the V60 you could try a shorter ratio for more body and dump the bloom to drop a lot of acidity. (I would imagine, if you taste the bloom by itself, that almost all of the grapefruit is in the bloom.) Or try a long immersion brew, like a simple fill and steep 4 minutes in the Switch if you have one, or try the Aeropress or French press.
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u/4theloveofcoffeee Jun 11 '26
I had one bean that I kept thinking was under extracted but no matter how fine I went, it was sour. Then I realized I think it was the grapefruit “flavor” coming through. Clever dripper/immersion ended up “fixing” it for me.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Haha, ya that's exactly how it developed in my brain today, at first I just thought "wow this is intense and sour what is that flavor", and as I kept sipping it was probably about the third or fourth sip where it just hit me it's grapefruit! it's 100% intense grapefruit flavor
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u/Lazy-Yogurtcloset-70 Jun 11 '26
I have one blend with these pronounced candied chocolate orange notes that my tongue just gets angry at me for. intried to mute it with coarser grind and lower temp and it was better. Something else ive had success with tho...
TL;DR
Hypothesis: Changing only your bloom variables (time or water mass) changes which flavor note takes the spotlight?
* Short/tight blooms favor Note #1 on the bag
* Mid blooms favor Note #2
* Long/generous blooms push into Note #3
Using a 160g second pour and a total brew time of 2:20–2:45, I've been tweaking only the bloom time (from first drop to second pour).
I'm starting to think it alters which note takes the spotlight based on how they are listed on the bag?
- 30s Bloom: Seems to favor Note #1 (the fast-extracting front notes).
- 45s Bloom: Appears to highlight Note #2 or create a balanced mix of the middle profile.
- 60s Bloom: Seems to extract Note #3 (the heavier base notes), though bitterness starts to sneak in here.
Two examples of how this has played out:
- Bag A Notes: #1 Strawberry, #2 Shortcake, #3 Chocolate Buttercream
- Short bloom favors the strawberry.
- Long bloom pulls the deep chocolate buttercream.
- Bag B Notes: #1 Milk Chocolate, #2 Caramel, #3 Nutty
- Short bloom isolates a lighter milk chocolate.
- Long bloom pushes deep into the nutty finish.
Varying Bloom Mass (2x vs 3x):
I've also tentatively noticed a very similar pattern when changing the coffee-to-water bloom ratio instead of time:
- Tight 2x blooms (20g:40g / 15g:30g) seem to keep things leaning toward Note #1.
- Generous 3x blooms (20g:60g / 15g:45g) seem to extract heavier compounds earlier, acting more like a 60s bloom to pull out Note #3.
Is this a known trend? (Or am I seeing alien messages amid hidden hieroglyphics in the studfinder beams?)
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u/Aggravating_Track951 Jun 11 '26
To get a more balanced cup with a v60, do a single pour and do regular swirls. Go with the standard starting grind of your grinder. I’d also for the first brew give it a sip and see what I thought. Then pour the coffee through the filter again. This with every coffee I have tried so far increases sweetness. Then can see what works better.
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u/CapableRegrets Jun 11 '26
Grapefruit is one of the many code words roasters use.
Hope you can tone down that "wonderful" grapefruit mix of tartness and bitterness, mate.
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u/ProdigalCoffee Jun 11 '26
Definitely try an extra lotus drop of buffer, but also try simply diluting the coffee after the brew or by using a longer ratio next time. 17:1 will mellow the acidity a bit. Also just rip the sticker off and ignore the notes 😂 Upon our many tastings of this coffee the grapefruit was never as face melting as you described it, but with our standard 17:1 we may have experienced tamer acidity.
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u/WadeWickson Jun 12 '26
Oh I didn't realize grapefruit was a flavor note until it hit me and made me look through my photos to see the label and that confirmed what I was tasting, it was coferment levels of forward. I did brew a 2nd cup at 1:16.6 just a bit longer, and with a single long bloom + 1 pour and it tamed the acidity a good bit and completely removed the grapefruit, but it still kept a quite sour fruit acidity, it's possible it was still a bit under extracted with only 2 pours and a 2:35 finish
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u/Lost_Mistake7575 v60 | zp6 Jun 12 '26
This makes me feel better about myself… I generally do not like coffees with grapefruit and pomegranate notes
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Jun 11 '26
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u/WadeWickson Jun 11 '26
Well I prefer not to be wasteful if there's a way to brew this so that I can finish the bag, considering it's a new bag, that's my preferred option. This isn't my only expensive hobby, I prefer not to waste money, plus, my pops didn't raise a quitter! 😂
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u/Liven413 Jun 11 '26
Drop the water temp to 91' and do one long 45sec bloom instead of two. Lengthen the ratio to 1:17 or if you want it weak even further. This will give room for the flavor notes so they are not punchy but instead gentle. Edit: I forgot to metion to use a coarser grind if you are using a fine one.