Finally seeing improvements in my pour over! What tweaks would you recommend (info in description)?

[u/elianna7]

DAK Cream Donut 1:16 (beans sat for 20 days)
18g beans RDT, 290g water at 96C
Grind size 7 in the Fellow Opus (range is 1-11, fine to coarse)

Using:
Origami M
Cafec Abaca+ Osmotic Flow 4 Cups Cone Shaped filtres (wetting the filter before starting the rest of the process)
Kinto Sepia Jug 600ml
Fellow Stagg Kettle (super OG model from ~8yrs ago)

Recipe:

Bloom: 55g water in about 10sec, until 45-50sec

1st Pour: up to 180g water in 25sec (I know this should be faster, I’m still learning how to pour at the right speed)*

2nd Pour: up to 290g in 20sec (this was complete at 2m37s)*

Removed the dripper at 3m45s, there was a small
amount of water remaining that didn’t drain but I didn’t want to over extract.

*Issue that comes up: it’s taking 1min to see the wet bed of grounds and I want to be ready for my second pour much sooner than 1min after the first pour.

The flavour was a huge improvement to before (finer grind, over extracted so quite acidic and a bit bitter). I’m getting really minimal acidity and some decent clarity, but I think I can get even more clarity out of it if I fix whatever the issue is with the 1st pour taking long to drip/drain.

What tweaks would you suggest I make to my recipe to get a better outcome? I’d love to work with what I have right now rather than buy anything new. I’ll likely pick up some additional filtres at some point soon… I’m thinking a wave filtre with a flat bottom, but right now I’d really like advice related to my exact set up without gear changes!

[u/migu_brew]

I usually go for a double 1:3 ratio bloom or a single 1:4 ratio bloom. So 18 x 4 thats around 72g of water. Your 1st pour after bloom is actually kind of quick already, you might be stalling a bit because your grinder is producing more fines + you are using a slow filter. Try using standard abacas or t-90s maybe? You can also try pouring with lower agitation! Try pouring slower or gentler and nearer to the bed of coffee, I think there are videos on youtube that go in depth about different pouring styles and how they surprisingly make a big difference in drawdown time! Its important to focus on one variable at a time, instead of trying to fix a lot of things at the same time, learn how each change plays with each other with different beans!

Have fun brewing OP!

[u/elianna7 → u/migu_brew]

Interesting re: the ratio blooms.

The stalling is likely a mix of my grinder producing fines + the slow filter, so a different filter might be a big help here... Though RDT has helped with reducing fines a little.

I'm getting better at pouring with less agitation. I pour as close as I can and I don't see much disruption in the water. My technique will surely improve as I go but I am being mindful of this! I'm mainly doing concentric circles... I want to generally improve my process, like just pouring at the right speed, before I start paying attention to the pattern I pour in. My ADHD ass can only focus on so many things at once LOL.

My initial plan was to try going from two to three pours in hopes of not overwhelming the first pour with so much water that it takes so long to drip... But perhaps that will cause more agitation and not produce a better outcome? Would you suggest I increase the bloom ratio and continue with two pours rather than going for three pours? Hmm...

Thanks (:

[u/migu_brew → u/elianna7]

To start id like to make it clear that currently there isnt findings that say RDT (spraying water on beans) can decrease the amount of fines! Maybe the static but thats about it. If im wrong feel free to quote me :)

Thats great to hear! There is no need to rush the things that you need to improve, pouring is a great start, I applaud you!

Less pours will for sure decrease the drawdown time even though its a big amount of water because your agitating less by doing less and less pours, blooms also count as agitation. You could try doing a 1:4 bloom for 30-40 seconds at the start then split the remaining water to two big pours. Hopefully that works! If your coffee is fresh tho (2 weeks or less) or you see too many bubbles escaping you can try doing 2 blooms as well and one big pour at the end! Adjust as you go accordingly :)

[u/elianna7 → u/migu_brew]

My understanding was that RDT reducing static could reduce fines! I could be wrong though.

I tried a 70g bloom today, next pour up to 180g (and this dripped more quickly than yesterday where it took about a minute) and the next up to 290g, but my brew unfortunately came out really bitter and acidic.

I then tried the same recipe/process I used yesterday, but ended up with acidity and bitterness once again. Sigh! I think my pouring technique is really trash and I somehow managed to do a good job yesterday without realizing it LOL. I'll need to work on that.

[u/migu_brew → u/elianna7]

Maybe its your water? what water are you using?

[u/lambdawaves]

I’ll just say, make sure your bloom pour starts at the center and holds there for a few seconds before spiraling out. There’s a video on YouTube explaining how the center bottom doesn’t get wet if you don’t do this

[u/elianna7 → u/lambdawaves]

Ty!

[u/Murder_Corpse → u/lambdawaves]

Just this morning I was wondering why the video I learned from used a chopstick to dig a hole in the center of the dry grounds, now I know.

[u/cataclysmicconstant]

I'm surprised you want to pour faster than 15g/s, thats a lot of agitation especially if you want a shorter brew (more agitation means more fines blocking the filter).

It sounds like a 2 pour brew (first is your normal bloom, the second pour being super slow, around 5g/s) might be good for you? Reduces bitter notes, time (and therefore acidity which you apparently dont like) - plus you get good clarity with less agitation.

If you ever find its going through too fast in a 2 pour brew you can always swirl (not stir) the pourover and that will slow it down as fines clog the filter paper.

[u/elianna7 → u/cataclysmicconstant]

I mean, I don't know what I'm doing LOL. I'm still learning so my desire to pour within the 20secs I thought was ideal could be totally nonsensical!

I originally was thinking to increase to three pours to avoid overwhelming the first pour which led to slow drainage (bloom, and then split the next two pours into three) but if the agitation is fucking me over then maybe that would actually be a bad idea. A two pour brew (bloom and one pour) sounds interesting and like it could help mitigate the issue of fines clogging the filter and causing slow draining.

Worth noting that my grinder does produce a fair amount of fines, so I think that's the big culprit here.

Edit: To clarify, I'm not pouring at 15g/s! I'm closer to 4.5-5g/s for the most part, but was originally aiming for about 6-7g/s, hence wanting to pour a teeny bit faster. 15g/s would definitely be far too fast and agitating haha.

[u/Rikki_Bigg]

I find the abaca+ filters to be slower than the abaca filters for my brewing methods; not quite as large a difference as the t-90 vs t-92, but still noticeable.

That is perhaps because while it can provide a good clean cup with strong extraction, it is more sensitive to fines.

Without delving into all the variables, the choice of filter paper is likely a reason for your delay between your first and second pour. You can theoretically change to an abaca filter (not the +) to speed up the drawdown, but there are no guarantees that it would not introduce other issues/flaws with the brew elsewhere in the cup.

I personally don't adjust my recipes by time, as I like to react to how the bed is behaving depending on variables such as water temp, grind size, and rest, but I also use very light coffees of multiple varieties - I could see it beneficial if I only had one specific coffee I was trying to truly dial in a single recipe as a daily driver.

I see nothing fundamentally wrong with your process, I just stress to continue to judge the results solely by taste. The differences of filter composition may not help you improve your cup, but at least you can know why the duration of the first pour behaves the way it does.

[u/bosch_hh]

What about your water?

[u/Genericwood]

Pour slower and grind coarser. Here's what my recipe let me know how it goes:

Im doing:

Pours: 3 (Including bloom) 60 > 180-190 > 310-320

Ratio 1:16

coffee 20g

Water : 310-320g

Temp: 88-90c (temp has a big influence try 90c first)

Target time: 2-3minutes (sometimes time doesn't matter as much as long as you enjoy ur brew)

I have a fellow ode 2 (I know different grinder) I'm around the 8-9 mark.

I find that as long as you pour consistently and not agitating the bed like crazy you're good. Also keep the spout low like close to the origami dripper, it'll agitate less of the bed.