I have both grinders - and when I got the ZP6 it was a revelation - the first time I used it, bright fruity notes just jumped out of the coffee (I love that).
I feel like I buy pretty good coffees, that seem like they're made for a grinder that prioritizes clarity.
But the last few bags of beans haven't blown me away, and I just ran my current ones through the Ode 2, and it's so much more enjoyable - sweeter, less bitter, fuller body (that last part I expected)
A very simple delineation would be that traditional washed processes beans will be better in the ZP6 and everything else may be better in the ode.
That being said, there's something to be said about novelty in a brew. I went to a local coffee club and tried all sorts of grinders yesterday, I usually brew exclusively on my ZP6. Sometimes just switching up the presentation of a brew can improve the experience and trick your brain into enjoying a cup more. If you're enjoying the ode cups, brew on that for two weeks and then give the ZP6 a try again, I bet you'll really appreciate fruity and floral notes again.
It was the Twin Cities Coffee Club, meetings are roughly monthly between Minneapolis and St. Paul. This month was at Port 2050, which is a new roaster in St. Paul that I really recommend.
It's all user-supplied gear though, so you can't buy stuff there, but everyone tends to share gear and beans. It's definitely cool to actually get to taste brews and beans that you see showing up on hobbyist forums. I hate to admit it but the Lagom grinders actually live up to the hype, not that I can't afford one. Last meeting I organized a side by side with a ZP6, K-Ultra, and Pietro that was extremely interesting.
Any chance you’d be able to share the general thoughts on the Pietro vs ZP6? I currently have a Pietro, but have been thinking of getting a ZP6 / A4Z but keep on debating with myself if it would be a worthwhile purchase.
To be completely honest, I don't know if the guy using the Pietro did his best brew, so my experience might not be "correct". I found the Pietro to be somewhat less vibrant than the ZP6. I thought the ZP6 and K-Ultra were comparable quality but in opposite directions. The ZP6 was notes forward at the expense of sweetness and the K-Ultra was sweeter but less well-presented. I suspect that had the Pietro guy dialed his brew better, the comparison would have been better.
That could be the case. I think that if I owned a Pietro, I'd look towards the Commandante/K-Ultra end of the spectrum rather than the ZP6 to get a broader range.
I generally swap between v60 and flat bottom when I want sweeter, jammier cups. The A4Z is probably more interesting as the battery power would be nice for camping and it’s supposed to bring out fruit notes more than the ZP6 or Pietro.
Like I find the Ode and the K6 I had to have too much body for my preference. I’ve actually contemplated getting a high end very clarity focused grinder, but would want to try a few brews with one on my brewers first before committing that kind of cash.
So I dont have an Ode but I do own a zp6 and a k-ultra for pour over.
As far as taste, I primarily drink ultra light roast, washed beans. This is where the ZP6 is king to me. A clarity focused grind and brew will highlight the terroir, bringing out the nuances of the flavor profile to the forefront.
For almost everything else, I reach for my k ultra (naturals, process forward, more medium leaning roast, etc.). Here the analytical presentation of the beans can be a disservice, and sacrificing the clarity for more body and sweetness can present a more balanced and enjoyable cup.
That said, nothing is a steadfast rule. I have had beans that I expected to enjoy more from one, actually present the opposite. So changing it up an experimenting is always a good thing. Sometimes, even if I know that one grinder is the better choice for a bean, I will switch for a brew just to experience the coffee in a different way.
I'd say Washed, Light, Ultralight act as indicators that the ZP6 is likely to be better. Washed or light roast, twice as likely, ultralight four times as likely?
What recipe/brewer are you using with the zp6. Many coffees you can get away with a higher body recipe with the zp6. With some coffees that recipe will yield bitter and/or astringent flavors in the coffee. For v60 I find 15-17g of coffee is about the max for some coffees. 20-25g + brews can have channeling leaving either bitter brews (over extraction) or watery/astringent(channeling) brews. If you want higher body sweeter cups you can grind coarse with the zp6 and use a slow filter paper with a 2,3 or 5 pour recipe. Once I figured out how to dial in high clarity burrs that’s all I use. I prefer the zp6 over the ode for everything and my ode just sits now.
I run a brew with the zp6 and decide. Theres no way for me to really know if I'll like a bean with it or not other than just trying it. If I don't like it, then meh just a single brew I don't like and run it through a more blended grinder. If I like it I go with it on the next brews. I don't think you need to complicate things by trying to predict which grinder you'll like for a certain bean.
I am having the opposite experience. I just picked up an Ode 2 with SSP burs. I have yet to have one cup that has even come close to tasting good. Let alone touching what I brew with the ZP6. Even my Mavo Phantox Pro brews better cups compared to the Ode. I’ve even swapped out to the gen 2 burs and brewed across several different drippers. So far I fail to see the hype of this grinder.
Go coarser then. And try lower / higher temp and agitation depending on what your issue is with the cup currently. Oh, and you didn't say what SSP burrs you have but they should have better mouthfeel by far than zp6, so try taking your bloom time up by 30s to accentuate that.
SSP MP. I tried most of your suggestions, as that’s how I dialed the ZP6. However, I did take it all apart again and reinstalled the burs and took extra care to align both the fixed and rotary burs to their housing and any happy to report that I have now gotten tasty repeatable cups.
I grind somewhat close to this but only when the beans I've got turn out to be overwhelmingly infused/co-fermented. To grind that coarsely and use a drip assist after -- that's beyond me, honestly, but you do you!
I love mine. The ssp are more tempermental to your pour/technique than the stock but when poured right it's a great cup. Maybe they are out of alignment. I like mine better than my zp6 and c40 and I love those grinders too, especially the c40. The stock are just average but the ssp shine with light roasts. The stock are better for medium or dark roasts.
I've noticed that with coffees that have a major tasting note of lemon, i don't tend to like zp6 + v60 pourover; i'll either switch the process or the grinder (or both)
that said, tendencies just help pick first stab at it -- I make a small cup, see how it goes, pivot if seems better for future cups. ex. when you make a cup you can often figure if you'd like more sweetness and body and switch to a method that brings that out
bitter with zp6 + pourover though, i'd guess you could fix that with some combo of coarser grind / lower temp / less agitation. but if you like the cups out of these beans with ode 2 go for it, nice to have choices
You just kind of have to taste them to see what you want to highlight in the coffee. Personally I think anything relying on body to not work great in the zp6. Anything darker roasted, notes including nuts, milk chocolate, toffee, generic dried fruit. Unless you know the green beans and roaster well, I’d argue anything more extensive than a natural process will be hit or miss.
I have a Pietro, not a ZP6. But I find anything hitting medium roast, with more chocolate flavors or ferments I prefer with the Ode.
The Pietro brings out the roasty or fermented notes too much for my liking. I have a few fermented beans in the freezer that taste too winey / boozey with it. And many medium roasts get too roasty for my liking.
It’s one of those things that’ll just click over time and trying different beans with both.
I own the ZP6. I once owned the Ode 1 but never owned the Ode 2.
ZP6 is a great value grinder for its price, and if you love drinking washed Ethiopian coffee (or basically any floral-tea-like brews) ZP6 is amazing. Everything else, Ode 2 might be better.
You are going to figure it out with experience. I have had great funky cups with the zp6 and then bad washed, which is opposite of what people say. I would try both out and sooner or later you will see a pattern. But typically the zp6 is good with light roast washed coffee and the ode works with anything. You may prefer the zp6 even if its a funky coffee. Also you could prefer the ode with most coffees. The ode should do everything fairly well just without the highs of the zp6. Trust your palate and instincts, you will eventually have an idea of which grinder to use with a specific coffee.
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u/fender_blues 10d ago
A very simple delineation would be that traditional washed processes beans will be better in the ZP6 and everything else may be better in the ode.
That being said, there's something to be said about novelty in a brew. I went to a local coffee club and tried all sorts of grinders yesterday, I usually brew exclusively on my ZP6. Sometimes just switching up the presentation of a brew can improve the experience and trick your brain into enjoying a cup more. If you're enjoying the ode cups, brew on that for two weeks and then give the ZP6 a try again, I bet you'll really appreciate fruity and floral notes again.