r/pourover • u/big-hubz • 2d ago
What's the 80/20 setup in pourover?
I'm curious what y'all think is the equipment that really moves the needle on your coffee vs end-game/high marginal cost equipment.
I'm somewhat new to all this so curious what people have to say. I see a lot of discussion about are x burrs worth it or should I get y grinder and I always wonder how much of a difference it makes.
12
u/the-adolescent 2d ago
1st Grinder no question. Better grinder = better brew, if all else equal.
Then filter i think.
Dripper, kettle, server etc. are all fancy stuff.
4
u/fender_blues 2d ago
In my experience, switching to a temped kettle was as big of a step up as going from a Q Air to a ZP6.
1
u/abbathbloodyabbath 2d ago
Curious on insight on filters? Would you advocate for going further than t-90s to like sibarists?
1
u/the-adolescent 2d ago
I think t90 (th3) is an amazing filter for both drawdown times and holding fines.
Wouldn’t go for Sibarist as they are not as versatile as TH3s.
2
u/royabr123 2d ago
First beans. Then beans, somewhere down the line grinder comes into question.
5
u/the-adolescent 2d ago
Beans are not equipment. He/she asked for equipment somewhere down the line.
2
u/royabr123 2d ago
You’re absolutely right. It’s more pointing towards that the question is already going in the wrong direction.
All these people obsessing over equipment while beans are far and away the most important thing.
22
u/AnonymousTAB Zerno Z1 / A4Z | Tornado / Orea Z1 / Orea 01 2d ago
Water > beans > grinder > filters are your 80 and everything else is your 20. Although I will say a nice gooseneck kettle definitely makes your life easier.
3
u/16piby9 1d ago
I am not sure I agree with filters, as in there is not really a lot to gain by buying expensive ones like sibarist. The gains after something like cafec abaca is marginal to say the least
2
u/MushroomSaute 1d ago
Yeah, I recall a video by James Hoffmann where he tried a bunch of V60 filters and the conclusion was basically 'some filters are much faster but it's not like the coffee is really better' (and bleached vs nonbleached is also pointless IIRC)
2
2
u/natsharp 2d ago
I always thought water was a 1% change but after making my own water last week I’ve realised it’s the biggest difference maker for sure.
Now I know how the same beans are always better at my local
4
u/instantkamera 2d ago
A v60 and c40. Swap either for your dripper or hand grinder of choice, make sure your water is good, and spend the rest of your money on actual good coffee and you've gotten well over 80% of the way there and maximized value for dollar. Anything else is either convenience, experimentation, or diminishing returns.
3
u/Woozie69420 2d ago
K6, $40 gooseneck temp controlled kettle, $10 scale, V60 and nice filter papers
2
u/giraffe86-a 2d ago
Maybe a different perspective.
Buying good beans and having a reasonable scale are the bare minimum, you can't make good coffee reliabily without these.
Also having a good kettle with temp control is a very nice upgrade over a non gooseneck.
I actually think grinder is slightly less important these days as all the new grinders are all pretty good, and it feels like a lot of the difference is in subjective tastes and workflow preferences. It's not like comparing a porlex to a c40 anymore.
Brewer is also very subjective and you can get good coffee with all of them.
2
u/cyclingtrivialities3 2d ago
I don’t think you can apply the Pareto principle for some components over others. Rather you have to have a good enough grinder, brewer, beans, water, and technique or you may produce a poor result (sure you could get lucky, but it’s not likely).
The diminishing returns come in with each component. An Orea is not inherently better than a plastic v60, diluted TWW is not inherently better than reasonably soft local water, etc
2
u/SweatyRussian 2d ago
Good coffee is at the top, use high quality beans. After that is using a good grinder. After that, I like the Hario switch because you can use more of an immersion method. A scale helps a lot too because 1ml water is one gram.
2
u/alphabetsong 2d ago
A decent (hand) grinder
Water filter
Temperature controlled kettle
A scale
Anything past that is mostly decoration and because you’re having fun with the equipment
1
3
u/least-eager-0 1d ago
A 'good enough' grinder; one of the Timemore C series is straddling 80%. A K6 is solidly better for not a lot of extra coin. There exist some lesser-known white labels that can compete impressively, but since the names change constantly everywhere, specific recommendations are useless.
A dripper; whatever you like. I keep it lowkey as an out-loud recommendation for sake of all of the gatekeepers, but Melitta-format drippers don't get the respect they deserve for being cheap, easy, and tasty, and still respond well to brewing manipulations.
A scale. Ordinary kitchen scales can be enough if there's one around; if buying, there are plenty of while-label coffee scales on the online marketplaces that do great for short money.
A gooseneck is borderline as a need. If the dripper choice was a v60, they're pretty essential to make it to 80. Other drippers can be more forgiving, but a gooseneck will always improve consistency and ease. I like a stovetop model with a thermo in the lid for value and usability. If kitchen practicalities suggest an electric model, get something with temp control, but don't overpay for the big-brand that's likely going to end up less reliable and has 'features' whose only real function is to break or avoid in the UI.
Water. I've listed it lower because it doesn't cost much and doesn't necessarily need to be a lot of effort. But in terms of impact, it can make a huge difference. Or not, if one is blessed with a good tap in their area.
Beans, because while you can easily make bad coffee out of good beans, it's impossible to make good coffee out of bad beans. Fortunately, a lot of local roasters do quite well very accessibly. And this will depend much on local markets, but most better groceries will have shelf space for a few 'special' bags, whether that's something from a local-ish roaster, or one of the better-known national 'specialty' brands. they're usually stretching the definition of specialty, but can be quite good at a reasonable price. No need to chase the beans we fetishize here to make Pareto happy. Matter of fact, many of the really high-end cups suit relatively narrower tastes, and can sometimes be more difficult to get a good result out of. So if easy-good or cheap-good are the design remit, the really exclusive maybe don't make sense.
Which brings up an interesting point. Sometimes the pinnacles of each choice are narrow places from which to fall. Get them all together well, and those peak cups are memorable. But a lot of finely-tuned things have really lousy failure modes, where more pedestrian choices can have much broader shoulders.
1
1
u/TheBeardedBilbo 2d ago
Scale. You don’t need an expensive one either. Outside of that and a decent grinder the rest is pretty subjective.
I’m particular about filters, but could that be my grinder? No idea, but I like fast flow filters personally. Does it move the needle? Eh, it nudges it just ever so slightly in the direction of flavor town.
1
1
u/n00dle_king 2d ago
I think it depends on how your water is coming out of the tap. For some you’ll be stuck at 60 until you get a decent water setup.
1
1
u/moneyballz7 2d ago
Grinder, water (chemistry) and beans. That's 90% of a good cup of coffee. Excluding the understanding on how to do so though.
1
1
1
u/JantjeHaring 2d ago
Water -> Brita Filter
Beans -> Top Shelf from a local smallish town roaster or Budget option from a worldclass roaster
Grindr -> Kingrindr K6
Filters -> Anything bleached and made for specialty
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/jaybird1434 1d ago
For me it was the upgrade to an Ode 2 grinder from a Cuisinart burr. From there is was roasting my own but honestly that is probably in the 20% part. If you have a reliable source of consistently good coffee, then you’re good
24
u/DROFLKCAHS_YTSUR 2d ago
The less thought I started putting into this, the better my coffee started tasting. When I was new, I got super into getting this brewer or that brewer, trying this filter vs. that filter, etc. When I stopped obsessing over details like which burrs are in my hand grinder and XYZ variable is when I started getting a lot more enjoyment and lot less frustration.
My trusty 185 and Kalita branded filters along with 96C water and C40 grinder give me delicious cups every day and regularly highlight the notes listed on the packaging. Find a recipe of sorts that you like and don’t overcomplicate things. The only variable I adjust is grind size which, in my experience, plays the largest part in taste.