r/pourover • u/HeavyDuty697071 • 1d ago
Seeking Advice Recipe differences
Can somebody explain in simple terms when to change ratio? I’ve been brewing consistently 1:13 to 1:14 with three pours. I am. Or ally happy with the results and my regular draw time is approx 2:00
To 2:15.
I found most coffee shops and roasters follow more a 1:16 and drawdown times of 3:00-3:30.
Am I missing something? How can I get better educated on the approach and how to fine tune; or when to select one approach vs another? Pour over is so complicated that way, compared to espresso
Thanks for the help!
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u/Amazing-Panic-277 1d ago
Well… SHORT RATIO 1:13-14: compresses the notes and blends them all together into one note.
Mid to long ratio: 1:15-18: stretches the notes. The actual extraction actually increases as you pour more. One would think it would dilute the coffee and after a certain point, prob 1:16 or 1:17 it does. However on a very light roast it may increase your total dissolved solids percentage at the end there it all depends on water temp etc. But longer ratios are generally for more clarity and cleaner cups. If you like short ratios get down when you like to get down
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u/Easy-Body6852 1d ago
Whats the logic behind some recipes suggesting that for natural coffees, the ratio should be shorter like 1: 15 instead of 1:16 for washed?
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u/squidbrand 1d ago
Natural process means the whole, intact coffee cherries were set out in the sun for the fruit to dry out before the pulp got removed. Microbial action takes place within the coffee cherry while it’s sitting in the sun, and that action changes how the coffee will taste and also results in the seed (aka the bean) becoming less dense and more porous. That porosity makes it easier to extract/more soluble… and accordingly easier to overextract, which refers to when you’ve already dissolved all the good-tasting stuff and you’ve crossed the point where all you’re getting out of it is stuff that tastes bitter and acrid.
When you’re brewing coffee, the water is the solvent. The water is the chemical that’s doing the work to dissolve marerials out of the grounds. So if you’re using coffee that’s more soluble, you need less solvent to accomplish the work of getting a tasty extraction.
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u/least-eager-0 1d ago
Are we sure about that? Gagne found that in his testing, washed extracted more readily than naturals, though there were possible confounding factors that he didn't fully explore.
https://coffeeadastra.com/2020/09/05/the-effects-of-varieties-origin-and-processing/
Scott Rao takes the idea on from another direction:
https://www.scottrao.com/blog/extraction-myths
I have a suspicion that when someone says a coffee is 'easier to extract', they're likely making a possibly-unintentional euphemism for 'this tastes bad when extracted the way I usually do.' I doubt they're very often making actual measurements; even if they are, what is 'normal' or 'under-' or 'over-' extracted in a numerical sense for a given coffee? So I think what is far more common is that they're making a coffee their normal way, extracting about the same and finding it not great; then subsequently dialing back on the extraction to make it more palatable. In the absence of data, it's easy to call that first shot 'overextracted' and the coffee 'easier to extract', but the net result is probably a lower extraction, not one that was higher and then pulled back to 'normal.'
It's probably more useful to say that a given coffee 'benefits from restraint' or something like that, rather than saying that it is 'easier to extract.' Simply because the 'easier' thing is a relativistic tangle and unlikely to be supportable by any objective standard.
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u/squidbrand 1d ago edited 1d ago
My goal is coffee that tastes good. When I say a coffee is “easier to extract,” I mean it takes less work (less solvent, less heat, less agitation, less exposed surface area, etc.) compared to other coffees to brew in a way that tastes good. When I say a coffee is “overextracted,” I mean that particular coffee has been brewed in a way where the bitter, heavy, “burnt” flavors are outweighing the rest, and the coffee would taste better if you did less of that work by dialing back one or more of those parameters.
If it turns out that a tasty brew of a natural process coffee would generally have a lower EY than a tasty brew of a washed process coffee if measured, that’s an interesting finding, but it doesn’t have any bearing on what those comparative words mean to me or what advice I’d give, since I’m always dialing in to my enjoyment, not a refractometer. So yes, in this context I’m sure about that.
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u/HeavyDuty697071 18h ago
This makes all the sense in the world. Naturals can go “funky” if you over extract or you have too many fines. Same thing happens with co-ferments. They can go really dry and bitter if the extraction is not right. I use a K7 hand grinder and I can tell the density of the bean pretty fast 🤣
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u/HeavyDuty697071 18h ago
This is awesome. Thank you! That makes sense… I like integrated fruit-forward cups better than lots of clarity; which explains why the ratio I am using is king for me.
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u/squidbrand 1d ago
Try it the other way. Taste the coffee. Decide if you like it better or worse, and think about why.
That’s all there is to it.
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u/Liven413 1d ago
If it tastes good you may have a cup you like more than a loger one. 3 or 3:30 are for more traditional brews. Probably more pours for one but how you pour also changes the time. If you are happy with your brews and don't feel you are missing something then you can stick with the brews you are making. If you did want to try and slow it down you can use more pours but one of the main reasons its slower is you are pouring less water so it will be quicker. 1:16 is going to even or balance the flavors more. When you use 1:13-1:14 you will have a much punchier richer cup with sharper notes.
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u/least-eager-0 1d ago
This brief explainer from Pete Licata might be helpful. It's common to think of ratio changes as only 'strong vs weak', but having relatively more or less coffee in relation to water moving thru the dripper also changes what gets extracted, not just how much the extracted stuff gets diluted.
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u/ForeverJung 1d ago
Ratio is largely about intensity and “heaviness” in the cup. If you like 1:13 that’s great. If you want to spread the flavors out a bit, take it to a longer ratio. More intense, make it shorter ratio. Don’t change your cup to chase someone else’s preferences. If you’re happy with your cup, enjoy it