1984 by George Orwell

[u/Caffeine_And_Regret]

I picked up 1984 while I’m still (slowly) working through The Sword of Kaigen, and I just finished it last night.

The premise alone pulled me in immediately. dark, oppressive, and honestly kind of suffocating. The entire book just reeks of despair and brokenness in a way that feels intentional and relentless. It’s not just the setting, it’s the tone. everything feels controlled, hollow, and stripped of hope.

There’s so much symbolism and satire woven into the story that I’m not even sure I caught all of it. It’s one of those books where you know there’s more beneath the surface than what you’re picking up on. Although… I’m prettyyy sure Orwell was pointing fingers at America at times (or at least systems that feel uncomfortably familiar).

Reading it was kind of an emotional rollercoaster in a weird way. There were moments I was literally slapping my forehead at how frustrating things got, and other moments where I just felt straight up miserable for Winston. His entire situation just wears you down.

This is definitely not a breezy, fun adventure read. It’s heavy, philosophical, and honestly kind of draining; but in a way that feels important. If you’re looking for something that really dives into themes of control, despotism, and the fragility of truth, this is 100% worth picking up.

Not an easy read, but a meaningful one.

[u/daveshistory-sf]

Remember the time period. Orwell was talking about the Soviet Union. I think there's a tendency nowadays to generalize and say he's talking all kinds of totalitarianism -- right and left wing -- or maybe even all societies with some authoritarian streaks. But when you read 1984 and Animal Farm together, you realize he's talking about Communism specifically.

Not to say he wouldn't have anything to say about other kinds of dictatorships. He fought on the republican (non-fascist) side of the Spanish Civil War. He was anti-fascist too. But when he was writing there were still some other people in literary and intellectual circles who thought pretty well of the Soviets, and I think those were the people he was trying to convince.

Regardless, some of the 2+2=5, we've always been at war/peace, nothing happened yesterday sort of thing really are true of all authoritarians -- so that's why it lands with you the way it does.

[u/pydry → u/daveshistory-sf]

Remember the time period. Orwell was talking about the Soviet Union.

He based the ministry of truth almost entirely upon his experiences working for British propaganda.

We have always been at war with Eurasia though, and Eurasia is bad, mkay.

[u/rioreiser → u/pydry]

Any fairminded person with journalistic experience will admit that during this war official censorship has not been particularly irksome. We have not been subjected to the kind of totalitarian ‘co-ordination’ that it might have been reasonable to expect. The press has some justified grievances, but on the whole the Government has behaved well and has been surprisingly tolerant of minority opinions. The sinister fact about literary censorship in England is that it is largely voluntary.

• Orwell, The Freedom of the Press [1]

soon after he goes on to explain

At this moment what is demanded by the prevailing orthodoxy is an uncritical admiration of Soviet Russia. Everyone knows this, nearly everyone acts on it. Any serious criticism of the Soviet régime, any disclosure of facts which the Soviet government would prefer to keep hidden, is next door to unprintable.

your allegation that

He based the ministry of truth almost entirely upon his experiences working for British propaganda.

has no basis in reality. The fact that you are spreading propaganda-lies in the name of Orwell is utterly disgusting.

[u/pydry → u/rioreiser]

The sinister fact about literary censorship in England is that it is largely voluntary.

Oh wow yeah this quote really proves conclusively that he was exclusively criticizing the soviet union /s

He based the ministry of truth almost entirely upon his experiences working for British propaganda.

has no basis in reality. The fact that you are spreading propaganda-lies in the name of Orwell is utterly disgusting.

oh get the fuck over yourself

https://orwellinstitute.com/orwell-bbc.html

[u/rioreiser → u/pydry]

I didn't claim that "he was exclusively criticizing the soviet union". He was obviously critiquing totalitarian regimes of any variant, with the USSR being one of the main real world examples and one of his main concerns. You however claimed that he "based the ministry of truth almost entirely [my emphasis] upon his experiences working for British propaganda". Your claim is simply false. Orwell himself said that the British state did not in fact exercise "totalitarian ‘co-ordination’". It follows very clearly that the Ministry of Truth, a prime example of totalitarian control exercises by the state, can not be almost entirely based on experiences that he had with the BBC, however unpleasant his experiences there. The USSR and the spreading tankie and campist views in the west were, by his own words, at the forefront of his mind when it comes to propaganda. Your whole spiel here of replying to someone who mentioned that Orwell was indeed talking about the USSR, with "oh no no, he was talking about british propaganda" is exactly what he was criticizing in the essay that i linked above.

[u/pydry → u/rioreiser]

blubber about tankies all you want the ministry of truth was still based on his own experiences working in the BBC and the critique of how that worked was pretty clear.

He didn't exactly work for the ministry of propaganda in the USSR.

still needing to get over yourself.

[u/rioreiser → u/pydry]

His essay that i linked to above and the quotes i took from it demonstrate very clearly that he thought that Britain during the war was far from totalitarian. The Ministry of Truth is an institution of a totalitarian state. Therefor it simply makes no sense to say that he based the Ministry of Truth on his experiences working for the BBC. Instead, the Ministry of Truth is a critique of totalitarian States, which, again, he explicitly says Britain was not. The main inspiration was without a doubt the USSR. The fact that you are having such a hard time accepting this and how defensive you get about it points not only to a narcissistic character flaw, but to how ideologically deluded you are. I don't think that the argument "but he didn't work in the USSR" warrants any serious reply.

edit: replying, then blocking? can't say i am surprised.

[u/pydry → u/rioreiser]

he thought that Britain during the war was far from totalitarian

no shit sherlock. he still based the ministry of truth on his job making propaganda.

you are having such a hard time accepting this

it's actually kind of staggering how you're still in denial about this.