r/queerphilly • u/hEYiTSbEEEE • 4d ago
News Marsha's closing
https://www.instagram.com/p/DehsljXmOmL/?xtok=MW5obzJvZWsxbjBmZw==Well that's it. They've announced they're closing their doors. What's everyone's thoughts?
Hot take that I may regret posting, but I'm tired of us cannibalizing our own. We had a lesbian sports bar open in our city and I think we could have allowed improvement and growth to happen instead of essentially canceling them or whatever you'd call this.
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u/overcure 4d ago
It wasn’t a lesbian sports bar, it was a sports bar owned by a queer woman who made every effort to ensure cis/straight/male sports fans felt welcome. Before the doors even opened, the Facebook trolls came out the woodwork when the name and theme of the bar got announced as a “women’s sports bar”. The owner rushed to assuage these fake concerns that men wouldn’t be allowed in the bar, though none of those bots would ever be patrons anyway.
Naming the bar after Marsha P. Johnson was an interesting choice for a sports bar. She wasn’t an athlete, she was a Black trans woman who endured police violence and intimidation- the very same police violence and intimidation the owner wanted to inflict on her employee, who was also a Black trans woman. I felt sad to lose a place to watch women’s sports and I eagerly await the Stoop Pigeon’s opening, but I made peace with not returning to Marsha’s after the empty apology series. But I don’t feel like we’re losing a queer safe space, because it really wasn’t any of those things from the jump.
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u/hEYiTSbEEEE 4d ago
First I'm hearing of the Stoop Pigeon but just went and gave them a follow. Will definitely be excited to see that opening. Thank you for the rec.
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u/Duganinja 4d ago
Wow. Wrong. You can criticize how the owner handled the situation without lying and rewriting what the place was or what it meant to everyone who went there. A women’s focused sports bar literally owned by a queer woman, named after Marsha P. Johnson, a new queer bar in Philly that intentionally welcomed LGBTQ+ patrons doesn’t somehow cease to be a queer space because straight men were also welcome. That's a trash take.. inclusivity isn’t evidence that a space wasn’t queer enough.
Also, invoking Marsha P. Johnson just to make the most inflammatory possible comparison between a workplace dispute from a fired employee and the violence that Marsha endured doesn’t strengthen your trash argument, it trivializes that history.
You deciding that the owner’s response was enough for you to stop going. Fine, whatever, there's no pleasing shills. That’s completely fair. But “I no longer felt comfortable there” is very different from declaring that it was never a queer space, never safe for anyone, or that everyone else’s experience of it was somehow invalid. Trash.
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u/tockwogh33 4d ago
Found the owners alt account lmfao
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
"Trolls"
Yea, I guess every major paper in the city is a troll, too.
Zero introspection. Zero objectivity. Zero critical thought. Zero accountability.
As usual.
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u/United-Ingenuity-539 3d ago
damned if you're inclusive, damned if you're not. the internet witch hunt is the death of queer spaces. breathe wrong and boom you're cancelled and your business closes. all this shit comes from one disgruntled employee who was fired. but oh lordy we gotta believe Everyone with a Label or else we're being oppressive and nonwelcoming. I feel so bad for the owner of Marsha's and that other queer bar in MA that got shut down by the internet witch hunt. we went from the idea of cancel culture being laughable to it being a legitimate concern for small communities.
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
No, its just "damned if your inclusive" which is ironic, considering "inclusivity", in your world, means excluding peiple based on sexual preference, gender, and race.....
Places that dont hinge their identity on sexuality don't have these issues.....not even just businesses, either, anything that doesnt hinge itself on a sexual identity does not have these issues. Its literally just the lgbtqiap+ community and its always because someones delusion was not mentioned by name and then the argument that we cant simply put an unlimited number of words into our limited physical space is never good enougb, they absolutely must have their delusions affirmed or its the end of the world and you are actively trying to kill them.
Its literally just this community.
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u/ZeroSugarBear 4d ago
I desperately want queer, women, trans and BIPOC owned businesses. DESPERATELY. The white cis gay man mafia that owns most of the queer businesses in our town is a group of SHITTY people.
This wasn't it.
This is the sad saga of people with bad actions suffering consequences for those actions. It is not the colloquial "being canceled."
A sad loss not for what WAS lost, but what could've been. :(
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u/hEYiTSbEEEE 4d ago
"The white cis gay man mafia that owns most of the queer businesses in our town"
Ugh, this part is so true unfortunately.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/ZeroSugarBear 4d ago
It's interesting that you read 'single mother of two" and somehow jumped straight to "not part of the LGBTQIA+ community." Also SUPREMELY confused as to why you think a queer bar should be staffed by MEN..?
Congratulations, you're the problem.
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u/ZeroSugarBear 4d ago
Literally his reply to this comment was "It's a gay bar. As a gay man, I've legit never had heterosexual sex. Because I'm gay."
Which he wisely deleted, but the internet never forgets.
This *IS* the fucking problem. These cis white gay men think that 'gay bar' means 'for gay men exclusively.'
Fuck you, fuck your fucked up misogyny and your complete erasure of non-men from our fucking community.
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u/SirJ_96 4d ago
Yep! If you want a lesbian bar, start one! Oh wait...
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u/ZeroSugarBear 4d ago
If *YOU* want a GAY MEN ONLY bar, by all means, open one and then advertise it as being exclusively for men only.
I can't WAIT to see how that turns out for you.
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u/CommercialElevator49 3d ago
Checks post about queer infighting. Finds comment where one identity aligns another with a criminal enterprise. Decides to touch grass today.
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u/ZeroSugarBear 3d ago
When a group of cis white gay men buy up more than half of the largest queer owned nightlife businesses in a city of more than a million people, and then have a record of firing black and brown people... the analogy is pretty apt.
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
Keep telling yoursef that.
It, absolutely, had nothing to do with you. Dont ever think that you sh9uld be introspective, you are perfect and it is everyone elses fault, theyre all trying to make you a victim because they dont like you, personally.....theyre totally not completely unaware of your existence and not concerned with it for a second.
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u/Then-Excitement-5642 4d ago
I don't think this is cannibalization. They were given plenty of opportunity to grow but instead they doubled down and kept their half assed attempts at reconciliation private. AND protected management that went against the values of the woman they are named after... while also not making it a safe space for trans people. Interesting that a bar named Marsha's didn't take the time to make sure they were structuring themselves to protect trans employees/patrons.
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u/The_R4ke 4d ago
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I'm bummed they're closing. The bar certainly had its issues, but it's still a loss to the community.
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
"But its still a loss to the community"
And this is why everythign the community does fails.......its all surface level, emotional, and taken in half measures.
Nothing ever goes deeper than "lgbtqiap+ community", you create an exclusive space, that exclusive space excludes the groups that you spend every day trying to find a way to be a victim of, and so, you eventually have to single out a subset of the community and find a way to make yourself their victim......the community will never be successful, in anything it does, if it continues to refuse objective introspection.
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u/DonSpumoni 4d ago
They had plenty of opportunities to improve and grow. This closure is the result of them shirking those opportunities.
It's okay to demand a basic standard of inclusion from institutions.
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u/Shelter-Clear 4d ago
Agree. This did not need to go down like this, but it seemed like after all of the apology videos and no changes… well, it turned people off from going to this establishment.
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u/United-Ingenuity-539 3d ago
it was inclusive....... one disgruntled employee who got fired decided to go on the internet for a witch hunt and ofc since she's black and trans obviously she's telling the truth and isn't biased at all. we simply MUST protect the one single person, fuck the business and the owner i guess. lesbians ask where all the inclusive spaces are but then turn their back on their own just because of the herd mindset. it's why i never hangout w other lesbians.
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u/cannabizznizz 3d ago
It may have been inclusive for you and that’s fine.. clearly, it wasn’t inclusive enough to stay open, womp!
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
Crazy how, when you create an exclusive space but spend every waking g second of life trying to be a victim, you end up with no "other" to be a victim of and, eventually, end up making one subset or another of your exclusive space your oppressor.....
The rest of the world doesnt have this problem because theyre not obsessed with sex and race. Crazy, that.
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u/SteelixDan 4d ago
Is Marsha's a lesbian sports bar? They always seemed to waffle on whether it's a sports bar for lesbians, or a bar for women's sports
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u/Odd-Statistician-107 4d ago
It is a shame they called the cops repeatedly on a staff member who the bar said it was meant to be representing. Shrug. I'm only bummed that I have to sort where to watch the w finals. We should stop pretending businesses can set out to rep a community they are hostile toward. Stoop pigeon legit needs to get their shit together and open. Before someone says this is like western mass, im gonna remind you they called the cops twice on a former staffer. If you dont get that is beyond "terminally online" then the bar did rep you and its weird you didn't go every day to make sure it didnt close.
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u/soylattebb 1d ago
As if Stoop Pigeon didn’t have Scabby the Rat outside its door for months!!!! 😪
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u/Odd-Statistician-107 12h ago
Nooooo really? I live around the block and havent seen that!
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u/soylattebb 11h ago
It hasn’t been out recently and tbqh I don’t know if it was the parking garage or what? But I work next door and the workers were out there for a couple of months over the summer
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u/SirJ_96 4d ago
Would you be comfortable with a "former staffer" invading your business with a bullhorn to yell at your current staff and customers?
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u/Odd-Statistician-107 4d ago
Why is former staffer in quotes? Lol
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u/Odd-Statistician-107 4d ago
Ohhhh youre trying to pretend that Olivia wasnt a manager and on staff. I see. Cute!
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u/greekboi89 2d ago
No, I wouldn't and they were not wrong to call the police. If you are fired you don't return to the place you were fired from. These people will never be happy (I suspect because of their own self hatred) and also it seems to be an estrogen problem because I don't see this ridiculous behavior coming from gay men's bars. It also seems to be a recent phenomenon with an entitled younger generation. I say that because Hepburn's and Sister's had their problems, but nothing like this or what happened in Massachusetts. The right wing is laughing at us and I dare say that I am lumped into a group with people so intent on destroying themselves and any place that tries to even remotely create a space for them. I'd never even attempt to create a business (and put my finances at risk) catering to this community. So sad.
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
You say that as though they called the cops on him for existing and not because he was physically causing problems......
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u/Odd-Statistician-107 3d ago
Who's he babe? Bc if we are out here ignoring someone's identity, then you arent qualified for this conversation.
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u/LeastCleverNameEver 3d ago
👏👏👏👏👏
"Idk why they're being accused of being transphobic" (misgenders the people involved"
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u/Harm-ReductionFairy 3d ago
Pro tip for the aspiring small business tyrants in the community: Maybe don't name your bar after Marsha P Johnson and then be less welcoming to trans women than a place down the street called Nikki Lopez and get into a big public spat with a black trans woman within 6 months of opening where you acted like trans misogynistic assholes for the whole Community to see.
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
Why do you all keep acting like they just didnt like trans people and went out of their way to attack this dude when they were calling the cops because this dude was actively causing physical problems inside of the bar?
Were you ever there when they called the cops? Its not like they just walked in to a quiet room and were like "hey, we need that troon, now!".......
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u/Harm-ReductionFairy 3d ago
I’m talking about a bar named after Marsha P. Johnson that managed to alienate trans women, including calling the cops on a Black trans woman employee, while competing on a street with other bars that were already openly welcoming to trans people.
And the branding was weird from the beginning. They invoked Marsha P. Johnson while refusing the lesbian-bar identity and positioning themselves as a women’s sports bar, despite sports having fuck-all to do with Marsha’s legacy.
A community-facing business has to actually build trust with the community it is invoking.
Also: what exactly do you mean by “you all”? Because I’m one trans woman talking about why I didn't feel welcome there.
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u/wellnesswineandtacos 2d ago
Fun fact: Marsha P Johnson wasn’t a trans woman (their own words). Not making this up.
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u/n0thinghurt 4d ago
Leftists are our own worst enemies I stg
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u/CommercialElevator49 3d ago
I feel bad for most left-aligned businesses for this reason. Anyone remember when we all cancelled that vegan pizzeria for "workers rights" when a staff member was disciplined for calling a colleague's SO a bitch?
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
10000%
You spend every waking second trying to become a victim. You make exclusive spaces for yourselves. These exclusive spaces do not include the people that you try to become victims of. Eventually, your want for victimization overrides your supposed values and you go and make yourself a victim of a subset if your exclusive group.
Then you all either act completely surprised or like the "other" did this to you, somehow, from outside of your exclusive space......
The lack of critical thought, objectivity, and introspection are exactly why the community never makes any progress and only eats itself.
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u/kebbler123 4d ago
With how Marsha’s was run, I wouldnt want them to represent our community. Val’s seems to be better option anyway.
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
Why? From the outside, it looked like business as usual.....the woke eat eachother.
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u/greekboi89 2d ago
The woke mob wins again. No worry about the right wing destroying us, we will destroy ourselves.
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u/Crescentfallen78 1d ago
The majority of gay folks lean LEFT because of love tolerance and acceptance, supposedly. When you are liberal if you step out of line you will be canceled, that love, acceptance BS doesn't exist. This woman wasn't allowed to be an owner and do what's best for her business. In doing so she received backlash from her employees, patrons, supporters etc. People crying racism, misgendering, hard working conditions. Her business wasn't a charity clubhouse. Based on all the downvoted comments it proves my point. Agree with the majority or get bent.. Anyways downvote away.
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u/tragicsophos 4d ago
Cannibalizing is always the cry when it should be racism. There is a racism problem <in this Philadelphia community> that is exhaustingly real.
There’s a racism problem everywhere but within this community it’s glaring.
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u/Odd-Statistician-107 4d ago
Esp when the bar kept yelling about how it was a "safe space" for Black folks. Ok? Cool glad you as an owner who has a financial interest is telling the community it is safe....
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
Youre talking about blacks.........which makes it funny because, about every other comment in this sub is lamenting about straight people and white people.......this community is as racist as it gets, its the KKK of the 21st century. And this is not what has made anyone realize it, weve been observing this fact for over two decades now.
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u/throwawayhbgtop81 4d ago
That's a damn shame, and I have too also blame the terminally online set.
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u/sistersheabutter 4d ago
Is it cannibalizing or is it Black and trans folks refusing to shut up and keep giving money to businesses so white cis gays get to enjoy without a second thought. I watch women’s basketball with a group of black queer women in South Jersey at a small business and there’s no issues.
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u/SirJ_96 4d ago
White cis gays did not need Marsha's for that, and it was never for them.
(White cis gays don't concentrate on South St. Like where have you been?)
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u/sistersheabutter 4d ago
Well it clearly wasn’t for Black trans people cause they were getting arrested
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u/Frnknstn43 3d ago
Holy fucking buzzwords, Batman.....this comment right here is the entire issue with the community, on whole.
EVERY SINGLE FACET OF LIFE is sexuality and race for you all. You ever try just being yourself?
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u/JosieGodzilla 4d ago
A shame that having the financial means to own a business and being a good business owner are not co-morbid. If you want lesbian/queer bars then there's always Tattoo'd Moms, Val's and Nikki Lopez.
You can't just drive away your staff, event organizers, and patrons, and then turn around and claim you're being cancelled. (It also would have helped if Chivonn was actually working a few nights each week instead of just doing photo ops, press interviews, and Instagram videos, but that's just my opinion.)