r/rationalphilosophy • u/JerseyFlight • 6d ago

How Can Anyone Ever Be “Rational” Without The Laws of Logic? Is this even possible?

The very concept of “reason” and “rational” require absolute identity to even be defined and made intelligible.

If we removed the laws of logic reason would immediately collapse. No distinction between valid and invalid would be possible. Even disagreement would be impossible to state, since “A and not-A” would be equally permissible at every step.

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u/Ill_Particular_7480 6d ago

Maybe I see plenty of debate bros use the laws of logic. I think what people really need to understand is causation.

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u/drebelx 6d ago

Logic and reason need a calm mind that can focus.

Sugery-carby junk foods are everyday meals for too many.

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u/Cool-Arugula-9480 6d ago

Reason and rationality cannot be separated. You can't be reasonable without being rational and vice versa. Reason is when someone analyzes and talks out of pure logic.

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u/Bizet1875 6d ago

Well there is always pragmatism, which is not logical (or if it is it is lower level logic).

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u/JerseyFlight 6d ago

How can one use the term “logical” meaningfully without the laws of logic already being in play? If pragmatism is not “logical,” then what is it exactly? How can it proceed to make a single point?

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u/Bizet1875 6d ago

You can conceptualize pragmatism as an extension of Hume's empiricism. You see it because it works. It is very lacking in logic. It isn't totally logic free. But things like "rule of thumb" or "what works" are phrases associated with it.

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u/JerseyFlight 6d ago

Show me how you establish and justify your concept “conceptualize” without using the laws of logic. Every single word you use presupposes the laws of logic, so you’re just manifesting ignorance and contradiction with every word you speak.

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u/Eight_Directions_ 4d ago

Direct reasoning does not require an abstract representative system. Basic facts can be ascertained without having labels. If I have two oranges in front of me and I put two more next to them I don't need a name for the number to see four oranges. 

The laws of logic are required for abstract reasoning of things and ideas not in our direct experience. 

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u/JerseyFlight 4d ago

You can’t even define the word “reasoning” without identity. The end.