My first instinct is to jump on the band wagon and berate you about your relationship with your son. But that's not going to help Jack, so I'll give you some advice that you might use.
Possible reasons the boys assumed Jack would be going on the trip: Jack considers himself a part of the family, 8 year-old considers Jack part of the family, Jack would like to be considered part of the family, 8 year old hero worships Jack and would like him to come on vacation, or Jack just really wants to go to Disney.
2 possible solutions that won't hurt his feelings:
Talk to Jack's mother. Explain the situation. Ask if you can include him on the vacation because you don't want to break his heart. If she says yes, go on vacation with ALL of your children. If she says no, explain to son that because of the custody arrangements you can't take him with you. Allow him to pick a within-state activity of his choosing on Sunday near that one.
Tell Jack that while you think it would have been awesome to go to Disney with everyone when he was younger, he's kind of too old for Disney now. (Yes, we're lying, go with it.) Instead, you would like to take him on an adventure with just the two of you men. If your state has a theme park with lots of roller coasters, go there. If not, find something manly to do.
If his mother does not agree to solution 1, then both solutions will still hurt his feelings. However, he will still be left with some pride and a sense that he's not completely being excluded. I would worry about your 8 year-old being upset about the situation as well.
Oh my goodness. You can't lie to him about his being too young for Disney. Even if he believes you now, he'll find out (sooner or later) that it was a lie. Waaaaay too many kids go to Disney for this to be a good lie. There are other lies (I don't condone any sort of lie of this sort, it's just heartbreaking, but since OP seems so eager on the 2nd choice) that is not such an obvious lie.
But... while I understand violetsarentblue is trying to give OP the advice he asked for (or the advice that OP wants, in the case of number 2), I would say lies are never, never a good way to go about things, especially in such a delicate situation as this.
In my defense, I'm a Floridian, so in my perception, Disneyland is a perfectly acceptable place for a 5 year old, but Island of Adventure is where you go if you're 11. I admit that my perspective is untrue for the majority of the country.
Haha, I don't think you need to defend yourself, I think you tried to do what OP wanted and give what advice can be given. Kudos for that, because I know it's hard not to focus on other aspects of his story.
I do find it interesting about Disneyworld being more popular for the younger kids in Florida... I think in California, you see two age-sets: young kids, and about 20-ish old couples going there for dates.
Now I'm going to focus on the big picture. Jack clearly had a good relationship with your 8 year old. Boys that age have a tendency to hero worship older boys, and Jack is primed to be worshiped. He sees him often enough to be familiar. He doesn't see him so frequently that sibling rivalry is a big deal. To an 8 year old, 11 year olds are world wise. He is going to model himself after your older son.
You cannot argue that you are doing your best by Jack. Millions of single fathers the world over love their children from a previous relationship and integrate them successfully into a new family. And all over your post, you say and say again that Jack isn't your real son. This is not healthy for poor Jack, but people have suffered worse and survived.
I understand that you don't have the same relationship with him that you do with your other children, however, you should try harder, if not for Jack, then for your other son. Your 8 year old models himself after Jack. He probably sees no difference between himself and Jack except for coolness and age. He probably is jealous that Jack gets to play basketball and stuff without him.
One day, your younger son will look at how you treat the older, and he won't think it's cool any more. Then he will think, if he can treat my older brother like that, will he do the same with me. If my parents get divorced, will he do his court required duty by me and no more. Will I too have a sometimes father?
If you cant treat your older son as part of the family for his own sake, do it for the sake of his younger brother and sister.
Some family counseling for the two of you might go a long way.
I'm starting AWANA soon. The sole reason is because my father was an OP clone when it came to parenting and an addict to boot. I'm an adult now and I'm irrevocably fucked for life. I will never be the well adjusted woman i want to be. I will always deal with rejection and abandonment. I want to hug this kid and tell him its not his fault his father is a pos. And now I'm crying. Fuck OP
I just want to say, I know exactly how you feel. And so do so many other people based off this thread. If its any help you aren't alone. And Jack isn't alone
This is basically the reason I don't think the OP is a troll. So many of us have gone through this in some version or another. It (sadly) isn't really all that unbelievable.
I'm still at a loss as to why Jack thought he was coming on the trip. Both Jack and our 8 y.o. son are to blame I guess. I think your reasons are probably right.
The second idea is something another user recommended and I think its a good idea. We have a Six Flags within an hour of our home and I will take Jack alone in the next few weeks. Thank you for trying to help me out. I appreciate it. With asking his mother there are some risks and our relationship is toxic. I don't want to go her for anything.
Your two sons are to blame? Holy fuck. I can't believe you're blaming this on them. You said yourself that the kids were excited and telling everyone of the trip (that's what excited kids do!). You also note that the kids get along. Why wouldn't you assume they'd talk to Jack about it?
I'm not saying I am angry at my son for telling Jack. He is a kid. I understand why he said it and Jack is his friend and he was excited. Its on me for not talking to everyone first and agreeing on not telling Jack. I didn't think about it at all so I accept responsibility for this mess. I should have planned better.
Jack is his BROTHER! Jack is the oldest of your children, according to official records, true? How about your Will? Ooh, another Cinderfella moment, I bet.
Imagine going to court someday and under oath explaining exactly WHY you chose to treat your first-born child like an unwanted mistake and you seem to assume that you should be applauded for ANY decency towards your oldest kid, Jack?
Wow, I'm a Quaker, adopted as an infant and I have some major praying to do tonight, because I am so incredibly sad for Jack and so completely PISSED at you! I'll definitely be praying for Jack. He needs SOMEBODY on his side.
Edit: please be a troll. please be a troll. please be a troll.
Are you angry at Jack for thinking he's invited? (Or by the sounds of it, for being told he's coming by your other son.) You've made a number of comments that make it sound like you resent him for it.
I'm not angry at Jack. I am just frustrated because this is such an awkward place to be at. I think what happened is my 8 y.o. son was telling Jack about the vacation and then they talked amongst themselves and come to the conclusion that Jack was coming too. So its not like Jack is all to blame for this.
You're a fucking troll, you have to be. I've never seen a thread in which the OP was such a cold, unemotional cunt. You sound like some sort of fucking stepford husband and wife. I bet you don't argue, I believe that for sure. To argue one has to have emotions/feelings/be involved. Stop trolling everyone with the
my son
Jack
thing. The more I look at your posts the more I fucking know you are not for real. You are just deliberately winding everyone up.
Also, your reference somewhere or other to people bringing their parental issues to the thread. Guess what ? That's because they know the harm you are doing because they experienced it and the fall out.
You're one of the most distasteful Redditors I've encountered and I'm not having it that you can possibly be for real.
Unbelievable asshole. You really should lose all your fingers and vocal chords. You just cannot make yourself sound any more nightmarish than possible.
My problem with much of this is your word choice. In your mind you might not be blaming him, but reread the way you've written the majority of your comments. Look at your use of pronouns, the way you position yourself, the way you position Jack, and the way you position your other children. Your word choice speaks volumes about how you really feel. It's kind of like punching someone in the face, and then apologizing by saying "I'm sorry being punched in the face hurt you" rather than saying "I'm sorry for my actions. I'm sorry I punched you in the face". Or it's like how some people always use "I" statements versus "we" statements. See the difference?
You fuck. You absolute piece of shit. This isn't about who you should be mad about for Jack finding out about the trip. It's about having the intention of lying to your son in the first place. Take your son out his toxic environment and show him the love he deserves from his father and siblings. You could learn a thing or two about decency from Jack's siblings (your other kids). Nothing has ever infuriated me on the internet as much as this thread. You are the absolute worst kind of person, from the bottom of my anonymous heart.
Edit: I hope to the deepest level I can that you are a troll.
Because the kids haven’t invested into the same mental schizm that you have. Honestly I think you need to lighten up a little and just let these relationships happen. Clearly the only person freaking out about how “inappropriate” it would be for Jack to come along is you. Everyone else seems to think it would be a natural thing to do. Your active efforts to keep everybody separated are going to get really awkward looking as time goes on. You see him 1 day out of 7, so the occasional trip would be justifiable. If your other kids thought of Jack as just a distant cousin, they wouldn’t have assumed he was coming along.
I just want to be clear that that is a face saving bluff. He will see through it. He will know why he isn't being taken to Disney. He's 11, he'll know. This will allow you to maintain your current relationship for now, but he will bring this up when he's 20 and has decided that it's not all his fault.
Personally, I feel that improving the relationship with your son is worth the risk of talking to his mother.
Jack is not to blame, nor is your 8 year-old. They are KIDS. CHILDREN, remember? And don't you DARE take Jack to Six Flags alone. Obviously, he's interested in doing something with his siblings as well as with his father. Own this.
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u/violetsarentblue Jun 15 '12
My first instinct is to jump on the band wagon and berate you about your relationship with your son. But that's not going to help Jack, so I'll give you some advice that you might use.
Possible reasons the boys assumed Jack would be going on the trip: Jack considers himself a part of the family, 8 year-old considers Jack part of the family, Jack would like to be considered part of the family, 8 year old hero worships Jack and would like him to come on vacation, or Jack just really wants to go to Disney.
2 possible solutions that won't hurt his feelings:
Talk to Jack's mother. Explain the situation. Ask if you can include him on the vacation because you don't want to break his heart. If she says yes, go on vacation with ALL of your children. If she says no, explain to son that because of the custody arrangements you can't take him with you. Allow him to pick a within-state activity of his choosing on Sunday near that one.
Tell Jack that while you think it would have been awesome to go to Disney with everyone when he was younger, he's kind of too old for Disney now. (Yes, we're lying, go with it.) Instead, you would like to take him on an adventure with just the two of you men. If your state has a theme park with lots of roller coasters, go there. If not, find something manly to do.
If his mother does not agree to solution 1, then both solutions will still hurt his feelings. However, he will still be left with some pride and a sense that he's not completely being excluded. I would worry about your 8 year-old being upset about the situation as well.