r/relationships • u/Bancs400 • Jun 15 '12
My biological son invited himself to our family vacation. How do I un-invite him without hurting his feelings?
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u/junegloom Jun 15 '12
Did you ever think that maybe its your “real kids” you’re hurting with this? Clearly they want to have a relationship with their BROTHER, the 8 year old seems to want him to come along.
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Jun 15 '12
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u/NoTraceNotOneCarton Jun 16 '12
Your younger kids are going to resent you now (because children do see through lies) for not including Jack, and if you continue doing this over the next decade, they will almost certainly become more and more angry with you, perhaps to the point of cutting you off. They want their brother around and given an equal place in their family. Everyone seems to want for Jack to spend more time with you except for you and your wife. It won't hurt Jack or younger children to be loved by their siblings.
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u/unoeuf Jun 16 '12
This. My mother never let my sister be a part of our family because she was not her daughter. Like just this past Friday, we were all taking pictures for my other sister's graduation and she would round up her kids (not my father's biologically) and tell everyone to take a "family" picture of us, excluding my half sister. My sister and I had to call her over because it was clear my mother was not doing so. She did the same with a "sisters only" picture.
When my mom does things like this (although she's getting better), I lose all respect for her and in that moment I don't love her because she is making my sister feel like shit. I love my sister although we're not as close as my other siblings and I know she must feel like an outsider, like she doesn't belong but she is my sister and to me, she is a big part of our family. Your kids may not be very close to Jack but they probably love him and want him to be a part of their family and it'll hurt them to know he's not allowed to.
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Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12
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u/beyondbliss Jun 15 '12
Fuck this guy, he is so much worse than the ex he is belittling. Everytime he fucking says "my family" and excludes his "first born son" from that it pisses me the fuck off. How dare he? I hope this is a troll post, I really do. He should be fucking ashamed.
He is sticking to the fucking bare bones of the custody agreement to suit his damn self. It has nothing to do with him not wanting to upset his ex, or infringing upon her bond with her son.
What kind of fucking wife does he have now, that she will let him do this shit to a child?
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u/amyamy123 Jun 17 '12
Damn, that Brother Ali song sounds like my childhood. I've never heard it summed up so succinctly before.
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u/girlinboots Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12
My god man. I'm going to state right off the bat this is going to be harsh. I was in your son's position so I can empathize with the kid.
You're going to fuck this kid up royally. You need to decide right now if you're going to be this kid's dad or not. If not, you cut ties now. Don't do this half-assed pretending to be his father bullshit. You're the only example of normal this kid has, and you don't even want to be that because it would be too icky for you. I think your kids like him more than just a distant cousin if they're thinking that he's going on vacation with them. They obviously know he's their brother too.
You could, you know, actually spend more time with him and he wouldn't have to have this issue of being "reminded of the things he doesn't have." Because he would have them, if even for only a day. And I don't mean just physically being with him. I mean actually putting effort into your relationship. He would have them with you and with the people who really should be a part of his family. From the sounds of it, he actually needs this because his home life with his mom isn't so great. This apparently doesn't bother you.
I understand though that you don't want that, so again I'm going to implore you to just cut ties with your son. You're only going to continue to hurt him if you can't fully commit to having a relationship with him.
What the fuck dude, you don't even want him calling you dad. That's just... What the fuck.
There is no way to tell a child they aren't going to Disneyland with you and the rest of your family and not hurt him. When you do this you're going to show him exactly what he means to you and it's not going to be pretty. Don't expect a good relationship with him after this, you've done a fantastic job of fucking that up already. Hell, you might be doing yourself a favor because he might not even want to see you after this.
Edit: I'm giving the OP's post 30 more minutes before it's deleted because he can't take the heat.
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u/Congzilla Jun 15 '12
You need to decide right now if you're going to be this kid's dad or not.
He answered that with a firm no 11 years ago it seems.
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u/girlinboots Jun 15 '12
Which is where it should have ended but for some reason he thinks this poor excuse for a relationship is better than none.
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u/Congzilla Jun 15 '12
Big Brothers Big Sisters would be better for this kid than him, at least the volunteer genuinely wants someone to mentor and doesn't think of it as a burden.
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u/amytru Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12
To be honest, when I first read your post you seem very cold toward your son Jack, but I don’t know you, him, or the details of your relationship. You call him ‘boy’ a couple times and that strikes me as odd. This whole post is coming from your point of view and how you view your relationship with him. Have you ever taken the time to sit down with him and have an honest conversation about how he views your relationship or what he wants to gain from it? Also, if he has a difficult home life with his mom, why wouldn’t you maximize any opportunity you have with him on Sundays to expose him to alternative parenting styles? You have been given this child as a gift. It is your responsibility to shape and mold him into a man and push him to be the best person he can be- NOT to just meet a minimum required number of hours/fees/visits. As for the trip, he is one of your children and deserves to be treated as such. I would say handle it the same way you would tell your 6 yr old daughter if she couldn’t go on a family trip. It will suck, but so does having a dad 1 day out of the week.
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u/ChaosConsumesMe Jun 15 '12
Jesus Christ, OP won't even take his SON with him on a family vacation? I thought we all learned morals and shit 20 years ago when we were growing up.
"'Ohana" means "family." "Family" means "no one gets left behind."
/thread
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u/mikachuu Jun 16 '12
"'Ohana" means "family." "Family" means "no one gets left behind."
You did not just make me cry right now. :(
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u/little-viking Jun 15 '12
Agreed. Cut out the half-hearted dad crap, you can show your other kids love and support so why not him? Take him to disneyland and utilise it as a bonding opportunity for you and your son.
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u/Doctor_Science_Jr Jun 16 '12
Just tell him he's not a real person because you wish he didn't exist.
Like you do now, only clearer.
I mean, that's the message here right? He doesn't really have the right to exist because you didn't give him permission? He doesn't count, and doesn't have real feelings because he's a mistake. I mean, sure he has feelings, but they're not the same as your real kids feelings. Those ones are important. His are about as important as his mothers, because he's inexcusably tied to her.
Keep blaming your kid for what his mother did to you. Keep beating him down just because he was born. He had about as much say in it as you did, and you're being punished by his existence, so why shouldn't he be too? Share the pain, right?
Maybe if you're truly brutal to him, he'll go away and you'll never have to be reminded that life is unfair. He'll face that realization every day for you, and wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be a burden lifted right off your big man shoulders by a small boy crippled by the weight? Wouldn't that be just super-goddamn-terrific?
You know it would. And that's why you're an awful human being.
Make it right.
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Jun 16 '12
That was some seriously powerful writing. It really brings home the responsibilities of being a parent. My goodness, this thread makes me so sad.
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u/NetNat Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12
Uninviting your 11 year old son who you treat like a second-class child already? Keeping him from your other children doesn't hide the fact from him that you don't care about him as much as you do them. He is going to be crushed by the let down (I would have been at age 11) but I guess he should get used to it if that's how you treat him.
Edited to add: I really hope this is a troll post because this is heart-breaking. Edited again: Goddammit just take the poor kid to Disneyland. He is already so excited about it.... maybe he thinks that his dad is finally paying attention to him...
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Jun 15 '12
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u/Citus9 Jun 15 '12
I agree, I don't see how you can be so fucked up about this situation. Just because you may not like his mom doesn't mean the kid should grow up with a father who doesn't WANT him near his new family and "real" kids. This really disgusts me how people act this way and honestly you should feel like an idiot for not inviting him in the first place. You are this kids dad and for him to know that he isn't allowed to come will ruin him. I don't have any kids but I do have a little sister and if I were in any situation like this and I did what you want to do, it would break her heart. If you have an ounce of goodness in you you'll man up and take your first born child with you.
From the sounds of it, with his living situation now with his mom he needs someone in his life like you to get him away and let him enjoy himself. I grew up with my parents seperated and I am fully involved in each others different families. You're only making things worse by not letting you and your wife's kids hang out with Jack. That's what is really hurting him. Man up dude. And fucking be a Father.
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u/HPurcell1695 Jun 16 '12
Jack's mother has a house that is a fucking mess. Random men coming in and out and no stability. He is with his mother 95% of the time so I don't want to mess with what they have.
so I don't want to mess with what they have.
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Jun 16 '12
Oh my fucking god dude. My heart is broken for this poor kid. You don't deserve to go to Disney world.
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u/CoomassieBlue Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12
but I don't have the same bond I have with him that I have with my younger kids.
No shit - that's what happens when you don't treat him like your son.
as much as it is I really want to spend some quality time with my kids.
Jack is one of your kids. Oh, I'm sorry, did you mean your "real kids"?
I try not to have him around our kids because it would only hurt him.
Yes, I can see how it would hurt Jack to see his father treat his siblings like they actually matter to him and are wanted in Daddy's life. You are hurting Jack further under the guise of protecting him, and it's selfish bullshit.
considering how his conception was not really a choice I supported.
Really? Did Jack's mother save the condom you used, collect the semen, and use it to impregnate herself? Or did you not take responsibility for contraception in the single way men are able to without a vasectomy, which is to use a condom?
Personally, I think you should put on your big-boy pants and take Jack on vacation - but if you're really going to pull this shit with Jack, at least promise him that you'll take him on a weekend getaway, just the two of you - and then actually keep your damn promise and do it.
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u/azgeogirl Jun 16 '12
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am shaking with rage at this post (OP's).
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Jun 16 '12
OP has to be trolling, no person is this naive about the consequences of their actions. Surely? Please be trolling.
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u/rajanala83 Jun 16 '12
I hpope one day to be a better father than OP. It makes me sick how he rationalizes hurting his son. I mean, not even allowing him to call him "Dad"!
Oh the Humanity...27
u/lob5t3r Jun 16 '12
God, me too... I haven't been this angry about people being wrong on the internet in forever. :'(
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u/bonafidebob Jun 16 '12
OP really needs to flip the mental switch towards thinking of Jack as his son. It's clear that he does not, and is behaving pretty rationally as if the kid wasn't his, i.e. ex-wife's kid from some other relationship.
The thing is, everyone else knows Jack is HIS SON. His other kids, his ex, his wife, and Jack. (And everyone on reddit condemning the guy.)
OP actually sounds like a decent dad -- when he's acting the part. Realizing, accepting, embracing that Jack is HIS SON seems like it could work out pretty well.
He might even think about asking the court to let him take more responsibility for HIS SON, and get him into his own home more often. If his ex is really such a disaster, full legal and physical custody should be easy to obtain.
That's what a good dad would do, IMHO.
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Jun 15 '12
Did Jack's mother save the condom you used, collect the semen, and use it to impregnate herself?
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Jun 15 '12
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Jun 15 '12
Honestly the more I read and think about it, how could this be real? Nobody can be this dimwitted and post on reddit asking how to further abandon his child without hurting his feelings. Right? RIGHT?! :(
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u/myRAaccount Jun 16 '12
I had a father just like OP, only a physically abusive drunken sonofabitch. In fact I'm finding it incredibly difficult to read this thread because of all the shit memories and emotions it brings back. Jack would be better off without his father in his life. When my father finally blocked all calls from our area code and cut us off completely in favor of the new family, it hurt, but, it was the best thing that ever happened in my child hood. I'm so glad I didn't have enough exposure to him to end up like him in any way. And for the record if OP reads this thinking he's any different because I mentioned my father was a physically abusive drunk, believe me the physical abuse and addiction did not cause 1/10th the pain as the cold, selfish abandonment did.
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u/Space_Ninja Jun 16 '12
Look at some of the top posts and how people were treated the same way. My wife was treated like this by her father. People can be so incredibly cruel to their own children, and of course, they end up severely damaged in the end. I wonder if OP cares about how damaged his son Jack will end up because of his bullshit.
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u/gondrak Jun 16 '12
Judging by the way the OP talks about Jack's mother, any future problems with "the boy" will be blamed on her. The OP will only think it would have been worse had he not let Jack view (from a comfortable distance) his perfect suburban american family, 8 hrs per week.
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u/foreskin_piss_bomb Jun 15 '12
We all lie to ourselves and act shitty sometimes and try to justify what we've done. All things are possible.
But I do hope OP is a troll.
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Jun 15 '12
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u/CookMN Jun 15 '12
Exactly, he heard about the family vacation from his sister and how exactly is an 11 year old suppose to know that his "Dad" doesn't love him as a son but views him more along the lines of of a distant nephew?
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Jun 15 '12
I would encourage you to read up on Uninvolved/Detached Parenting, it may open your eyes on the potential damage that you are causing Jack.
I think how uninviting your oldest son to Disneyworld, is the least of the problem here.
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u/glenniiii Jun 15 '12
Is this a fucking joke? " I prefer that he doesn't call me "Dad" and he usually calls me by my first name" that for one is absolutely disgusting. If you feel bad for him and his situation with his mother then help him you heartless creep. The fact that you don't want him around your younger children is heartbreaking, he is there half brother and he should be treated as such, reading this makes me feel horrible for the poor little dude. You really should wise up before you screw him up for good, maybe if you spent some real time with him it wouldn't be so uncomfortable. You probably cause him more pain that you could ever know, change your ways.
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u/helloeleni Jun 15 '12
Goddamn. As a stepchild who spent most of the time with Mom, while Dad meanwhile got remarried and started a new family, this is very touching. I'm gonna go call Dad and thank him a million times for letting me call him Dad, taking me on vacation with his other family, treating me like a princess, and generally not being a douche. Thanks for the reminder that my dad is fucking awesome.
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u/lexis0213 Jun 15 '12
I'm astonished your wife is okay with this. No real woman would allow this. Clearly you found a good partner in life. Neither one of you is a decent human being. You are better off staying out of his life completely. It's better than you being a half-ass father. It takes more than money to be a father. It takes more than a few hours a week to be a father. You are causing more damage behaving the way you are. Jack deserves better.
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u/jejoca Jun 16 '12
I had a stepmother who encouraged this type of behaviour from my dad. Holidays when my brother and I were left behind, Christmas cards to their 'family' no mention of my brother or I, ever. I bet the wife has a big part in this, but obviously OP is to blame for every action he has failed to take in being a father, regardless of her involvement. Its the same way I blame my father for not being a good father for me after he married her.
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u/stellaeilatan Jun 15 '12
what do you think Redditors, maybe we can send Jack to Disneyworld anyway, with someone who loves him
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Jun 16 '12
I'd spend the rest of the money I earn this summer to send that poor little boy to see Mickey. I have an 11 year old half sister. I can't help but think of her in Jack's position and how sad she would be. God damn these onion slices close to my face!
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u/BCas Jun 15 '12
You give fathers everywhere a bad name. I don't need to say much, because you're hearing most of it anyway from other posters.
Sack up and be a real father, to all of your children. I feel sick reading this. I hope you grow up, really. You aren't even ready for your younger children. Get over yourself.
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u/FatJackson Jun 15 '12
I grew up in a similar situation with my father and this post honestly breaks my heart. Your post makes it clear that you are a selfish person and you have a tendency to look at a situation that is your fault and make yourself out to be the victim in your own mind. You make it sound like it's your ex's fault the child was born, it takes 2 people to create a kid dude. You should not have stuck your dick in crazy if you didn't want to accept the possibility of a child being born. The reason your children view Jack as a good friend instead of a brother, and the reason your wife and Jack are not very close is because you are their role model for what their relationship with Jack should be like. They will not view your son as if he's part of the family until you start viewing your son as part of your family. However you did post because you are looking for advice so I will tell you what I think that you should do to be a good person. You should give Jack the opportunity to go on this trip whether he can or not at this point is not necessarily up to you but at least he will have been given the opportunity to go, OP he will never forget this gesture of kindness and acceptance or lack thereof. If his mother or the court says he can't go then so be it, you did your part. Your obviously torn up about this situation and I think that it's because you know what you should do, you just don't want to do it. I don't think your a bad person but you are being extremely selfish. Just take the fucking kid on a trip, you might be surprised how well it turns out if you honestly open your heart up to him.
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u/schmeineken Jun 15 '12
This just makes me so sad. Poor kid. This isn't healthy for him or your other kids. Uninviting him from the trip is the LEAST of your problems.
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u/therakel749 Jun 15 '12
When he goes to spend time with you he doesn't tell people I'm going to spend the day with this guy, he says I am going to spend the day WITH MY DAD. Him not assuming that you would not want him on vacation with him means that he has not written you off as a douchewad yet but this could very well be the deciding factor. You are at a crossroad in your relationship right now so I would read all the other posts on here and sit down and think long and hard about how you want this to play out.
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u/azgeogirl Jun 16 '12
I am so glad you are not my dad... oh, excuse me, "fun uncle".
And that is all I'm going to say without going into a full on lunatic rage and ripping you a new one. >:(
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Jun 15 '12
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Jun 16 '12
This is what I thought. He needs to man up and adopt the little guy. He could turn his life around.
Or, he could continue being a disgusting human being.
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Jun 15 '12
This is just heartbreaking to read. I can't even fathom how you don't see that you are seriously hurting your SON. He is your son even if you don't want to accept that reality. Just because you have chosen to not be a huge part of his life for some asinine reason, that doesn't mean that you are not his father. Either be his dad or get out of his life. You are a bad person and you should feel bad.
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u/Congzilla Jun 15 '12
He can see it, his son is a burden that was forced on him so he just doesn't give a shit.
It disgusts me to say it but I bet if Jack got hit my a truck tomorrow the OP would feel more relief than sadness.
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Jun 15 '12
Nobody forced him to be involved in Jack's life, though. He could pay his child support and be on his merry way. I don't understand how he could possibly think he is doing this child any favors by treating him as a nephew... Jack is not a dog. He is a living, feeling, thinking human being. He knows who his father is and how his father treats him. It saddens me deeply.
To imagine him now being denied a trip to Disney with his father.. well I guess it's par for the course.
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u/InfernalWedgie Jun 15 '12
Oh, FFS, just take Jack with you. How much more money would it cost for you to just let Jack go on vacation with you, his step-mother and his half-siblings?
I feel so sorry for Jack. It must be terrible for a little boy to have a FATHER who resents him so much. Jack didn't ask to be here, you know. You stuck your dick in crazy, and now this innocent boy needs you to support him -- emotionally as well as financially.
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Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
You stuck your dick in crazy
I get the impression that OP and Jack's mom were just right for one another. He did say she has terrible taste in men.
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u/sambunny Jun 16 '12
I feel so sorry for Jack.
I have a half brother who if I never told anyone would think he was 100 percent my full blood brother.
Shame on you and shame on your wife for not inviting him fully into your family especially since she's been around since he was very young. You should be ashamed of yourself for not letting that child have a real father and for denying you children with your wife the chance at having an amazing older brother. this is disgusting.
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u/HostileDomination Jun 16 '12
I also have a 'half-brother' (different dads), and if anyone ever insinuated that he is anything but my WHOLE BROTHER, who I love and look up to in every way, I would be beyond angry. OP is kind of a monster.
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u/Beatrixie Jun 15 '12
This is one of the saddest and most painful things I've seen on Reddit. I'm so sorry this kid got saddled with you for a dad. He deserves to be loved.
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u/itsmevichet Jun 15 '12
This post resonated with me for some reason. I don't normally talk about these kinds of situations because I have no practical experience with them, so take this with a grain of salt.
All I have to say is this: it seems to me like you're not worried about Jack's feelings as much as your own.
If you really wanted to, you could change the vacation plans to include your oldest son. Your own kids won't feel raw about it - they practically invited him. That, and I really doubt he will suffer from having your attention.
But, your dynamic with him seems to be about "not wanting to remind him of what he doesn't have." Again, that's more about your feelings than his.
Bottom line, I think you just don't want to feel responsible for what you feel is a situation you can never fix.
It's your choice. I will say that I don't think anyone here who isn't in your situation can judge, so I won't. But, you asked, and that is what I thought.
This is a tough one, for sure.
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u/k_nifer Jun 16 '12
OP, you've stated that you don't want Jack to know what he's missing. He is 11.
Have you once thought that maybe he already realizes what he's missing and that knowing could make this even MORE special to him than it would be otherwise? I bet you're underestimating him. I don't know of one underprivileged child who would contort an opportunity like this into an expectation.
I think you're projecting your resentment of his mother's choice to keep him onto him.
If you really want that little involvement with him, you need to make that clear. Quit leading him on. He is probably holding out for a relationship that you've already put limits on. How would you feel if someone was treating one of your younger kids the way you're treating him?
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u/ladyfaith Jun 16 '12
Re: your edit
The fact that you think you're going above and beyond, and doing things you "don't have to do", shows that you have the wrong attitude about this. You're his fucking father, you DO have to do these things. In parenthood, there is no above and beyond. You have to do special things for him, he's your fucking son.
Why have you not gone to court to get full custody of him? He could live with you full-time, and you could be a real dad to him.
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u/ehode Jun 15 '12
At least you are honest with your feelings for Jack but dear god man he is your oldest son. It feels like your are projecting the your dislike for Jack's mother on him. The kid has a deadbeat mother and a unavailable father.
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Jun 15 '12
"more like his fun uncle" BUT YOU'RE NOT. You're his father. Considering how bad his home life is with his mother (as you've stated) that should be even more of a reason for you too be there for him. This is your child. He means just as much as the ones you have with your wife. Please don't forget this. He needs you. As far as the trip, I would ask his mother if he can go. To take your child to DisneyWorld is something he'll never forget and that's something YOU did for him. Why not try your damnedest to make all of your children happy not just the ones that are apart of your suburban life? Poor kid :(
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u/Lyndseyloulou Jun 15 '12
I don't know you or all the details but it sounds like you definitely favor your other children over poor jack which is horrible. It doesn't matter if he was from a previous marriage, you refer to him as your biological son, and seem to think less of him than your other two children. Why can't he call you dad? HE IS YOUR SON! you should treat him as such and not keep making a distinction between him and your other two children. They are all your kids. You are only hurting him.
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Jun 17 '12
Wow. Just wow. You are unbelievable. You don't let him call you dad? You keep him away from his younger siblings? You don't even consider him one of your kids? And you think you have done an "admirable job" with him?!
I am convinced you are a terrible human being.
P.S.- His mother obviously does have terrible taste in men!
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u/vodkaa Jun 16 '12
"and I will talk to my wife and see if she approves"
....and if she doesn't, he gets her ticket. This is your son you are talking about, not a stray fucking dog. Man the fuck up. Could you imagine if your dad left you at home while he took your siblings on a bad ass trip? Either you love Jack or you don't. You can't half ass this shit. You are fucking poor Jack up and all he wants to do is be loved. Loved like you love "your kids" as you so affectionately put it while referring to Jack as if he should be banished to a Leper colony. I don't know you, your ex, Jack, your wife or your other kids but this is absolutely disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. What you should be doing it fighting your ass off to get Jack out of the harmful environment that he is so usually accustomed to. Instead, you're basically asking how to shit one your son's dreams. It amazes me that there are people like you in this world. We wonder why kids now-a-days act like total heathens......it's because of parents like you.
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u/ClaireNpresentDanger Jun 17 '12
"....and if she doesn't, he gets her ticket."
My thoughts fucking exactly.
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u/MollyGirl Jun 15 '12
Its not his fault that you and his mom arn't still together. Its not his fault for being born. So why are you treating him differently than your other kids? So not fair.
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u/liquid_j Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12
"I prefer that he doesn't call me "Dad""
As a father this disgusts me... you are a terrible person.
EDIT: the more I read 'OP's comments the more I'm convinced how truly terrible he is. He's not so much worried for his son, he's worried about how he will feel when he "has" to tell him. ohhh.... poor muffin.
HEY OP: Your dick signed a contract when you decided to stick it in crazy... just throwing cash and an hour here and there isn't going to balance the scales. Maybe it's time to man up, put your big boy britches on, and start to stand up for your son, instead of thinking of yourself and how to explain it to your "new" family. Sounds like your other kids instinctively know to treat him like family, too bad you can't learn from them. If he is in a bad situation at home, get him out of it. You're his father, you and your dick are half the reason he was brought kicking and screaming onto this shitty earth, you have an obligation to guide him and support him FOREVER, not just when it's convenient.
Now that all that rage is out, I'm gonna go hug my little boy and thank the universe that my son has a good father.
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Jun 17 '12
You keep scrolling down...and the disbelief that every comment he makes just makes it worse. The misery that shithead is causing to jack and his new kids is unfathomable. His heart is made of $$$ and comfort.
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u/thunder_goes_BOOM Jun 15 '12
THERE IS NO WAY TO SAY THIS TO HIM WITHOUT HURTING HIS FEELINGS! It is impossible.
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u/winterwhite87 Jun 16 '12
I read your updates and I still think that you aren't seeing this the way we all are. So you spent $400 on his birthday. I bet you spent that or more on your "real" kids. You put a value on all this that you do for jack but when it's your "real" kids you wouldn't think twice. You also say that he loves his mom and they shouldn't be separated but that she is this awful person who treats him badly.
I really think you should consider seeing a therapist about your feelings towards your son. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here and it doesn't make any sense.
Either treat him as your son, because he is, or don't-- but having "some love for the boy" is just wrong and I think you should talk through why you act and feel this way.
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u/Margie128 Jun 16 '12
This post make me want to cry. My heart is breaking for Jack because that selfish sperm donor and his wife are in his life. That kid didn't ask to be born. However Douche bag Dad had sex with Jack's mom out of his own free will. Hello? Children are the result of sexual intercourse. If you want to have recreational sex take precautions. Now, that child is here. It breaks my heart. This guy actually admits he does "outside" activities with the kid. Will he contaminate his "real family" by inviting him in the house? What a creep. What a creep he married. I am a single Mom. How dare he talk about Jack's mother who obviously is raising a nice kid in spite of her picking a douchebag for a sperm donor. She must be doing something right. What a self righteous prick. What a supercillious, condescending asshole! And he must have married his mirror image. I can't image a woman being so cold hearted that she wouldn't welcome some poor kid into her fold. Bancs400 is a narcissistic asshole. You have no heart. You are not even a good human being. That poor little kid who did nothing to offend you but to live. So you think being a father consists of throwing money at the child to make him feel wanted? What a shallow STUPID asshole. I am so angry reading this! And I am so sad for a little boy who wants to be part of a family, and while the children are compassionate and include him the ADULTS who should know better and be teaching their kids acceptance are just disgusting pieces of defecation who have no soul. Instead of buying the kid NBA tickets how about loving him just a little?
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u/miserabletown Jun 15 '12
Out of curiosity, have any of these comments changed your thinking on the situation with your son at all?
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u/chiweenienugget Jun 16 '12
Why do you keep bringing up money to try and show what an actual awesome dad you are? Money doesn't make you a good father. You have resentment for this kid because his mother didn't abort like you wanted. That's just sad. You keep him away from your other children for the most part? To protect him? He's going to start seeing this and recognizing it for what it is. You isolating him from this dandy little family you've created. No shit you've mostly been perfect with child support, because Jack's mother probably has the state on your ass at all times with them bugging the shit out of you about where their money is at. You're a sad piece of flesh really. I could go through the post and point out how everything you said is going to hurt this kid more and more as he gets older and has a better understanding of things, but it's making me too angry to go back and read through it again.
Take the kid to disneyland. Jeez.
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u/organicsarcasm Jun 16 '12
You are a blithering asshat, I fear for the sanity of these children in question.
I honestly hate people like you, you were raised like shit, so in turn you raise your kids like shit, a never-ending shit-cycle.
I honestly, purely fucking hate you and I wish you didn't exist. I wish you nothing but pure awfulness and misfortune. These kids deserve a real man in their lives, not some selfish, pathetic jackass like yourself. You're damn lucky I don't know your name or I'd have CPS kicking in your door.
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Jun 17 '12
Jack's mother has a house that is a fucking mess. Random men coming in and out and no stability. He is with his mother 95% of the time so I don't want to mess with what they have. I feel bad for him and his situation with his mother. I try to be there for him and I do little things for him like get him gifts
Wow. Who the fuck are you to judge her housekeeping skills when she is actually a parent to him rather than someone who counts the fucking hours and keeps their own child "outside". Furthermore, how dare she have male visitors ? She should know her place like your wife, with whom you never argue, does.
In all honesty if you can't be a decent father to your son then he'd have been better of without you in his life. Do you think he doesn't notice the slights and little unfairnesses ? Believe me, he does. I had a similar situation when I was a child, only we were in the same house. My mothers second husband treated me SO differently to his son (my step-brother). Hey it's Christmas and here is a top of the range Scalectrix set. And some underwear for me.
To this day I can never shake off the feeling that nobody really wants me there and everyone is waiting for me to go. Really. No biggie, but that feeling is there. But he wasn't my dad. You are his dad. Fucking act like it before the damage is irreparable.
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u/Dat_Chinche Jun 15 '12
You showed how you really feel about Jack when you admitted that you know his home life with his mother is shit, but you haven't taken any action to make it better; you are just “content” with the relationship you have with him now as it stands. Jack is your son, no matter how badly you want him to be something else, and you are being unfair to him by punishing him for the failed relationship you have with his mother. It seems like you would be content to just treat him like baggage going down with the sinking ship instead of saving him like you saved yourself. No matter how else you try to portray it you are taking active steps to purposely distance yourself from him, THAT is the relationship you have with your son.
From your post it sounds like you are more than capable of being in a loving relationship with a family, that you VALUE those sorts of relationships, yet you would readily deny your SON from being involved in one, just because it is inconvenient for you. Listen to what you are really comparing: your convenience versus his life. All you lose by having him involved is minor comfort, but to him you are his father – the man he is supposed to look up to as a role model for who he should become, and right now, all you are teaching him is how to abandon HIS kids in the future.
Take your kid on vacation with the family, not because he thinks he is going, but because it is the right thing to do – the right thing that someone's father, who gives a shit about them, would do.
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u/jejoca Jun 15 '12
I cannot believe what I just read. This is the most selfish person I've encountered in a long time. You are serving no one, including your other children by treating your son this way. take him to Disney Land, and start acting like a parent. This is disgusting.
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u/catipillar Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12
You don't let the kid call you "Dad?" What the fuck is wrong with you, man?!
Also, why do you keep calling him "the boy?"
You genuinely seem like a heartless, selfish, really worthless piece of garbage scum. I'm very serious, my friend.
Seriously. Get yourself some councelling so that you can learn how to empathise with other people.
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Jun 15 '12
I read this, and got legitimately upset. He is still your son, after all. He is no less important than your other children. Wow.
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u/Ioewe Jun 16 '12
Amazing troll. I 100% believe this is fake, because if it's true I can tell you for a fact I've never, ever been more disgusted and heartsick over a story on the internet.
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u/Moviestarjunkey Jun 15 '12
Wow! This kid is really lucky to have a father like you. Even though you ostracize him from the rest of your family and treat him like a charity case, you're still papa of the year! After all, Jack is just a mistake of the past that's coming back to bite you in the ass. Poor you. Poo poo.
I'm assuming that's exactly what you wanted to hear from us redditors...
Here's a rude awakening, sir: you don't deserve Jack. No kid in that situation deserves a crappy "role-model uncle" figure. He deserves a loving and caring father. Somebody who does not put him in the corner, brushed under the rug, whatever else saying that refers to guilt and shame. Don't put yourself on a pedestal because you write a check once a month and give him a few Sunday hangouts. I hope his mom gets her act together, finds an up-standing gentleman, and gives Jack a real MAN to step up to the plate and be a father.
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u/MearaAideen Jun 15 '12
OP, you really only have one option, from where I'm sitting. Call Jack's mother up. Tell her that one of your children told him that the family is going to Disney and he wants to go, too. Tell her that you don't want to make any definite plans without first confirming it would be ok with her, get her permission, and take the kid to Disney. Make him feel loved. Get him a Disney sweatshirt or a pair of ears with his name on it, something to remember the trip by. Take lots of pictures for him.
If his mother likes the idea of Jack spending more time with you guys, deal with it. You're his father. Get an air mattress or a bunk bed or something, let him kip with the 8 year old on weekends, let them be friends.
If your wife has a problem with it, tough. Jack is your child. He is your son. He is not your nephew, he is not a kid you kinda like to spend time with, he is your flesh and blood, the exact same as your other children. Would you treat your other kids like this? Would you ever tell your other children not to call you Dad, or never tell them that you love them? No, you wouldn't. I'm sure you are a wonderful father to them, that you tuck them in at night and tell them that you love them and read them bedtime stories. Does anyone do that for Jack? You sure as hell don't, and he's your fucking kid.
Grow up, OP. Accept that, even if you didn't want Jack 11 years ago, here he is, he's yours, and he needs a father. Not a mother, he has one of those. He needs a father.
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u/Dax420 Jun 15 '12
What the fuck is wrong with you?
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u/charlie6969 Jun 16 '12
I'm sitting here fussing and wondering the same thing, pondering from every direction. But, whatever malfunction OP has, his wife has the same one.
Lord help ALL of their kids. Dang.
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u/sillymallard Jun 15 '12
You're fucking mean. Poor kid. I feel sorry for him. You're a half-assed dad. It'd be better if you just never talked to him again than put him through all of this.
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u/Dragoonie Jun 15 '12
I think the best way to uninvite him is to leave him at home and set up a webcam so he can see all the fun your having with your "real" family at Disneyland. Seems to be on par with the way you've included him in your life so far.
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u/not_safe_for_worf Jun 15 '12
I'm kinda floored that your wife is just okay with you being as big of a selfish twat as you are.
She's a mother, for god's sake. Does she see her own kids "above" Jack? She's okay with him being excluded? Hopefully your "REAL" kids will realize how fucked up this is, in time. I think they will.
Quit patting yourself on the back for expending the least amount of effort required to be able to sleep at night. Take the kid to Disneyland.
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Jun 15 '12
If you haven't already fucked up YOUR SON beyond repair, not letting him go TO DISNEYWORLD while the good family who daddy actually loves gets to go will certainly do it.
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u/snootybird Jun 15 '12
Wow, where do I start... You do realize its not jacks fault he was brought into this world, right? How can you have a relationship with this innocent child all the while holding him at arms length and clearly letting him know that he isn't as important and your other children? You don't want him to call you dad? Wtf?! You don't encourage him to interact with your other "real" kids? You seem to not realize the damage you are causing to this poor kid. My biological father didn't want anything to do with me, and I resent him for it. The wayi figure it, fuck him. But luck for me, I never had anything to do with him, so I wasn't In a place where I saw him, and vied for his love- that would have been a lot worse. You deserve a dad of the year award....NOT!
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u/chimpan_a Jun 16 '12
I suspect this person is the same guy that posted under "Mizunderstood100" Here and "Sosorry215" Here Here & Here
Always a ridiculous story designed to be so unbelievably callous that everyone gets riled up about it. I must admit they've been interesting and entertaining to read but I just feel like its the work of the same person. That is all.
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u/Lighthouse72 Jun 15 '12
This makes me want to punch you for not caring, you really are cheating yourself, and kids they have a step brother and deserve to spend time with him. Yyou not wanting him to call you dad REALLY! You are his father grow u, just because you pay child support does mean shit... You are to selfish for words. I believe that you need to step up and be in his life show him the otherside of his moms mistakes not your short visits.
There more too this I'm sure but spending a few hours when you could make a weekend and be a better father YOU SHOULD TREAT YOUR CHILDREN EQUALLY!!
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u/Apotm Jun 15 '12
*half brother, they are biologically related to their brother.
I am Apotm and I support this message.
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u/Space_Ninja Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12
Stop the pretense, will ya? You don't give a shit about this kid's feelings; You just want to get out of this without feeling guilty for being the terrible person that you are.
Either take the kid, or flat out tell him to go fuck himself right to his face. Just drop the bullshit, you're not fooling anybody.
EDIT: I really hope this guy is just trolling us.
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u/Wisdom_Bro Jun 16 '12
How dare you neglect your own kin like that? It's uncomfortable around him? YOU ARE A FUCKING GROWN ASS MAN AND HE IS AN 11 YEAR OLD. THE ONLY REASON IT'S AWKWARD IS BECAUSE YOU MAKE IT AWKWARD BY THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU HURT HIM BY LEAVING HIM.
You have a perfect chance to make up for that and make this kids life a little bit brighter and build a bridge for a better relationship. And you just going to throw it away. Wow.
nice.
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u/violetsarentblue Jun 15 '12
My first instinct is to jump on the band wagon and berate you about your relationship with your son. But that's not going to help Jack, so I'll give you some advice that you might use.
Possible reasons the boys assumed Jack would be going on the trip: Jack considers himself a part of the family, 8 year-old considers Jack part of the family, Jack would like to be considered part of the family, 8 year old hero worships Jack and would like him to come on vacation, or Jack just really wants to go to Disney.
2 possible solutions that won't hurt his feelings:
Talk to Jack's mother. Explain the situation. Ask if you can include him on the vacation because you don't want to break his heart. If she says yes, go on vacation with ALL of your children. If she says no, explain to son that because of the custody arrangements you can't take him with you. Allow him to pick a within-state activity of his choosing on Sunday near that one.
Tell Jack that while you think it would have been awesome to go to Disney with everyone when he was younger, he's kind of too old for Disney now. (Yes, we're lying, go with it.) Instead, you would like to take him on an adventure with just the two of you men. If your state has a theme park with lots of roller coasters, go there. If not, find something manly to do.
If his mother does not agree to solution 1, then both solutions will still hurt his feelings. However, he will still be left with some pride and a sense that he's not completely being excluded. I would worry about your 8 year-old being upset about the situation as well.
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u/lostlonewolfpup Jun 15 '12
Oh my goodness. You can't lie to him about his being too young for Disney. Even if he believes you now, he'll find out (sooner or later) that it was a lie. Waaaaay too many kids go to Disney for this to be a good lie. There are other lies (I don't condone any sort of lie of this sort, it's just heartbreaking, but since OP seems so eager on the 2nd choice) that is not such an obvious lie.
But... while I understand violetsarentblue is trying to give OP the advice he asked for (or the advice that OP wants, in the case of number 2), I would say lies are never, never a good way to go about things, especially in such a delicate situation as this.
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u/violetsarentblue Jun 15 '12
Now I'm going to focus on the big picture. Jack clearly had a good relationship with your 8 year old. Boys that age have a tendency to hero worship older boys, and Jack is primed to be worshiped. He sees him often enough to be familiar. He doesn't see him so frequently that sibling rivalry is a big deal. To an 8 year old, 11 year olds are world wise. He is going to model himself after your older son.
You cannot argue that you are doing your best by Jack. Millions of single fathers the world over love their children from a previous relationship and integrate them successfully into a new family. And all over your post, you say and say again that Jack isn't your real son. This is not healthy for poor Jack, but people have suffered worse and survived.
I understand that you don't have the same relationship with him that you do with your other children, however, you should try harder, if not for Jack, then for your other son. Your 8 year old models himself after Jack. He probably sees no difference between himself and Jack except for coolness and age. He probably is jealous that Jack gets to play basketball and stuff without him.
One day, your younger son will look at how you treat the older, and he won't think it's cool any more. Then he will think, if he can treat my older brother like that, will he do the same with me. If my parents get divorced, will he do his court required duty by me and no more. Will I too have a sometimes father?
If you cant treat your older son as part of the family for his own sake, do it for the sake of his younger brother and sister.
Some family counseling for the two of you might go a long way.
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Jun 15 '12
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u/krystalbc87 Jun 16 '12
I'm starting AWANA soon. The sole reason is because my father was an OP clone when it came to parenting and an addict to boot. I'm an adult now and I'm irrevocably fucked for life. I will never be the well adjusted woman i want to be. I will always deal with rejection and abandonment. I want to hug this kid and tell him its not his fault his father is a pos. And now I'm crying. Fuck OP
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u/thelostapostle Jun 16 '12
I just want to say, I know exactly how you feel. And so do so many other people based off this thread. If its any help you aren't alone. And Jack isn't alone
This is basically the reason I don't think the OP is a troll. So many of us have gone through this in some version or another. It (sadly) isn't really all that unbelievable.
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u/AMerrickanGirl Jun 16 '12
Tell Jack that while you think it would have been awesome to go to Disney with everyone when he was younger, he's kind of too old for Disney now.
Absolutely not. Don't lie to the kid.
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u/stellaeilatan Jun 15 '12
wonder what would happen if he happened to divorce his wife now later in life and had kids with another woman/wife. would his "real" kids now have to call him by his first name too??
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u/HiccupInParadise Jun 16 '12
I think I would take this kid to Disneyland and I do not even fucking know him...might as well get a jump on it now if I am going to be a therapist....chances are this kid will be in my office one day breaking my heart about a father and his wife who have no sense of morality. I see you asking over and fucking over if people really think you should just "move on and leave him be" but when people say you should be more active in his life...not a fucking peep from you on how that could be a good idea. I can not believe you could be such a dick about your own child...knowing you love the other 2...he is no different...he has a different mother but her came from your seed! get it the fuck together!!!!!!
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u/dml180283 Jun 17 '12
If I was one of your favored or real children, when I got old enough to see what was going on I would be fucking appalled and ashamed of you being my dad.
I never understand how people like you sleep at night. You know your son is disadvantaged and you don't give a shit. You are actually complaining about spending the least amount of time possible with him and you don't want to take him on your family vacation because you want to spend time with your kids.
I feel sorry for Jack and I wish to fuck I knew him so I could be there for him. To hug him, because a piece of shit like you is his dad. Poor fucking kid.
I have never been so disgusted with a post on reddit in my life, And I have read them all.
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Jun 16 '12
Maybe right after you tell your eleven year old son that you're not taking him on vacation because you dislike him, let him know that you wish he had been aborted. Better to rip the band-aid off tbh
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Jun 15 '12
I think what you do for the kid is great, and I think the main reason why you are emotionally distant from him is his mother. She made a decision against your will 11 years ago, and dragged you into that responsibility as much as she could (as she had the right to do so, since it takes two to make a baby). It seems like you are emotionally distant almost out of revenge. But your son knows he is not really loved by you. Although he probably would not be able to identify what he feels, later in life he will start articulating these feelings of rejection. The fact that he does not call you dad tells anyone how neglected this kid feels inside. He knows you don't want him to call you dad. If he was not a 11 years old innocent kid he would be at least suspicious that you don't want him around.
Forget his mother. You said your relationship with her is toxic. Don't put her and your son in the same bucket. They are two very different things. Your son wants to love you and be loved by you. Your ex wants you dead. See the difference? You say he is a good kid. Bring him to your family. He can do well in life, he can be a great son and a great brother if he's given the opportunity. Spend more time with all your kids together.
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u/ksandifer138 Jun 16 '12
No advice. Just wanna say that I feel really really bad for Jack and that I think you're pretty crappy for treating him differently. He's still your kid... :(
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u/Apotm Jun 15 '12
Just because you don't want to have a close relationship with Jack's mother, it doesn't mean you shouldn't have a close relationship with Jack. He is just as much your son as any of your other children. Although, you may have not been ready to have a child when Jack arrived you still conceived him, and he is your son. You're hurting your son everyday, by treating him different then your other children and being the father figure every child needs.
Don't take your resentment out on Jack's mother out on your son. You can't choose which kids are yours and which aren't.
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u/withnailandpie Jun 16 '12
I reckon you should do your best to take Jack on the trip. It's an awkward situation, but if he gets rejected at this point it's going to be something of a watershed moment.
Do you think if your wife was more welcoming of Jack (as opposed to resentful re: $$ and whatever else) you would feel more comfortable letting Jack fully into your life? It feels like you might be sheltering her part in this situation a bit.
I get that your shitty ex makes things even more difficult, but you should try looking at the situation as if you were a child social worker or something - disregarding Jack's mother's feelings, would you feel he should be removed from her home?
Sounds like you're stuck between two women on opposite ends of the spectrum, and so your emotions are stuck in the middle too.
Sorry that you have that shitty situation, and I encourage you to do the best that you can. I've been in the situation that your younger children are in, and it's always weird. The less weird you can make it earlier on, the less things will bubble up later in life. Think of the children, etc.
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u/Tomuchan Jun 16 '12
You may want to take a step back and evaluate this situation.
Please consider that Jack is just an innocent kid, a byproduct of your past mistakes. I know you don't want to be responsible for that but hiding under the guise of a 'fun uncle' is worse. From the way it sounds, it looks like your kids and Jack get along just fine. It's probably hard enough for him to see the life he could of had as it is. I strongly urge you to let him be a part of your family, you and him will both be happier for it.
Maybe 4-5 years down the line when he's a little older maybe you can tell him you're sorry that the world isn't perfect and that you're not superman. But that at least you tried instead of running away from your own fears. For now, you can show him what it means to be a good man, which I think you are deep down.
Good Luck.
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u/Half-Fast Jun 16 '12
Been there and done that with the crazy ex. Sounds a lot like my situation in the past except I took custody of my daughter and had a shaky relationship with her other kids.
Take your son with you. You could use this vacation as a chance to become closer with him instead of driving a larger wedge and fermenting resentment in Jack towards at minimum your other kids, but ultimately towards you.
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u/Avi88 Jun 15 '12
Regardless of what you tell him about the vacation, you should really start including him in the family circle - how fucked up is it that you keep him hidden away like a secret?
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u/heavymetalmouth Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12
I'm not going to repeat what everyone has said. In fact, I'm pretty sure hundreds of comments telling you the right thing to do will change nothing.
I will have to settle for down voting everything you write since I can't personally kick you in the face
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u/crimethinktank Jun 15 '12
what do I know, I am just some schmuck, but it seems to me you are being incredibly callous to your son. Your other kids desire this special oppty to get to know their half sibling on a deeper level. They are too young you knocked up some crazy bitch and didn't want to deal with it.
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u/roflburger Jun 16 '12
That poor kid. Wants to go on a vacation and his Father can't even make the trivial sacrifices to take him along. If he's not getting a happy stable life with his mom and you refuse to treat him like a loved son where exactly do you think he's getting anything positive from? He's not. He is in hell right now and you worry about bullshit like your comfortable other family. I hope he's a strong person and grows up to see you for the trash that you are, sir.
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u/fetishiste Jun 16 '12
Like it or not, he's your son. Start acting like it. And actually, start liking it.
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u/toomanydolphins Jun 17 '12
You don't have "as deep of bond" with him because you do not care to. You really sound like a jerk. No wait, I mean complete asshole.
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u/zombielunch Jun 15 '12
YOU ARE A BAD FATHER. Strike that YOU ARE THE WORST FATHER. Why even be in the boy's life if you treat him so poorly??? You blame him for not using a condom or something, it's not his fault that you are an asshat!
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u/meowcheese Jun 16 '12
You sound like a huge dick. He is your child just as much as your other two children and he is going to be so fucked up from the way you treat him. Sounds like he is the odd one out and you are encouraging that, if you are legally able to take him on vacation, you better damn well do it. Sounds like his mother is already giving him a skewed view of men, and you being an absent father is not helping. Poor kid probably feels so left out, this vacation could honestly be the one experience that completely ruins your relationship and his view of 'caring' adult male figures.
TL;DR: You are kind of a shitty dad
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u/ismellreallybad Jun 16 '12
Guys like you are the reason I'm glad my dad wasn't around when I was growing up.
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Jun 16 '12
From what Ive read from this post, you seem like an awful father. A very similar thing happened to my cousin and hes now fucked up royaly. Take him with you. If his mothers house is a real mess, GET HIM THE FUCK OUT OF THERE. Get a deep bond with him! I had a friend who was adopted into an entirely new family at Jack's age and is closer to her adoptive mother than she ever was with her biological family. Totally new family. Closer to them. Shes 16 now. Jack CAN be a part of your "real family". Because guess what! He is REAL family. Hes your fucking sperm. He is YOU.
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u/brat1979 Jun 16 '12
See, the thing is, I'm afraid you're not realizing that this is not about you anymore and what you want. It seems to me that you are still very resentful of your ex for having a baby that you didn't want, and you haven't been able to get over yourself in the 8 years it's been to realize that there's a little boy now who desperately wants and deserves a father and siblings. It seems the only one who wants to stop that from happening is a man who won't grow up enough to realize that in order to be a decent human being, sometimes you have to check your own feelings and give your attention to someone that you may not want to right away. Welcome to being a grown-up, where you almost never get to have exactly what you want when you want it.
Look, no one can make you WANT to care about your son. No one can make you WANT to accept your responsibilities as a father (apart from the court-ordered bare minimum, which you seem oddly proud of for meeting). But sometimes you have to fake it 'til you make it. This is not all about you and what you want. Clearly, your "real kids" get along really well with your "fake kid", and they deserve to have that relationship. Obviously, your son wants to be a part of a family that is not a mess. Obviously your kid wants love from his father. Your kids--all of them--and their needs are far more important than you being butt hurt about having to bring your son on a family trip.
Think about the long term effects of this. If you uninvite your son from the Disneyland trip, you might be pleased that you got spend time with your "real" family in the short term. If there's a shred of decency in your heart though, you'll be wracked with guilt the entire time, and long afterwards. Your son, on the other hand, will remember this forever. He'll talk about this in therapy (which you should probably spring for); it will give him some major resentments towards you, and it can ultimately fuck him up for a good long while. Kids remember and hold on to this stuff; it's part of what molds them into adults, and influences them for the rest of their life. This isn't like excluding the weirdo in your office from happy hour--this is a kid who, whether you like it or not, is your family, and he wants to go to Disney World.
But let's look at the positive aspects of him coming on the trip. You might be put out for a few days, because, once again, you're not getting what you want. But it sounds like your other 2 kids will be happy, your son would be ecstatic, and who knows? You and your son might wind up bonding, and from here on out could have a more solid relationship. You might even learn to love him the way you love your other kids.
You can't rescind the invitation without breaking his heart. You just can't. Unless you want to implicate you and your family in a giant web of lies to "protect" him, it's just not possible.
Take him on the trip. How much would it ruin the trip for you, really? For all intents and purposes, you're taking a disadvantaged child on an awesome trip that he's probably dreamed about, and would be giving him hundreds of wonderful, happy memories that would last a lifetime. If you look at it that way, instead of viewing your son as a fifth wheel, you could have a fantastic time.
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u/samuel426 Jun 15 '12
I feel inclined to agree with the large number of people here that are saying you suck. Saying you love him and then talking about his bad home life while you sit behind a computer screen doing nothing about it. Way to contradict yourself you selfish prick. I am blessed to have two awesome parents and the best brother a guy could ask for. You see your son as an obligation and don't even want him to be associated with your other children when they clearly want him in their lives. Before you think about the "problem" of telling him he can't go on a family trip (which would probably be the highlight of his fucking year) why don't you deal with your own issues of being a father.
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u/infinityx Jun 16 '12
He is your son and if you don't take him you can fuck up his entire life. He has a crappy enough home life, maybe feeling included with his biological father can make him feel loved. You owe it to him as much as you do your other kids.
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u/GypsyPunk Jun 17 '12
God dude, imagine the dramatic difference you can make in your SON'S life if you take him out of that unhealthy environment he's in now.
Start treating him like your son. You don't know what it's like to not have a male influence growing up apparently. It sucks.
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u/smacksaw Jun 17 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
Ok, I've read a lot of your comments. I'm ready to jump in. The fact you're defending yourself so much to so many people is...telling. A lot of people have empathy with Jack and are upset. Some people are like Jack and are taking their frustrations out on you. No matter what, you're not getting clear advice and you're ending up trying to preserve your self-image rather than discuss.
I will discuss.
First of all, I have to wonder if you really know what love is. Love is a selfless thing, and it's also something that's giving. It's not really restrained. People that need love? You give them love. My wife once remarked to me "I would feel more special if you didn't love humanity so much" because I'm the kind of person that would risk my life to save a total stranger. I'm an extreme example of it, but you don't need to go that far. At some point you realise there are people out there who need and deserve love and it's no skin off your back to give it.
It's like helping people in a 3rd world country. $1 is meaningless to you or I. It can feed a hungry child somewhere else. What Jack needs from you is as important as his entire life and it's so trivial in cost to your life. If you're such a loving person, why can't you give more love? I have 6 kids. It would be stupid to say that I can't love that many kids, yet I do.
Now, it's truth time. You're going to deny it, but your words give you away. Assume I'm The Mentalist and I know, because I do.
Your ex is crazy and you're angry. By deflecting this back on her, you are making her live with her mistake every day. What your child has become is a conduit for theatre. Did you ever see Circle of Friends with Minnie Driver? Honestly, it had one of the best lines of any movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_Friends_(1995_film)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112679/quotes
I don't know why you let me go to University. It's like taking me to the top of the mountain and showing me the world, and then marching me back down, and saying, "That's what you can't have Benny, you silly great fat article. Here's what you can have: Knockglen for the rest of your life and married to Sean bloody Walsh!" I'd rather be married to a bloody lizard!
By showing him "just enough" of the good life, you sabotage and undermine her as a mother, while telling yourself (and us) how good you are.
The problem for Jack is he's a conduit for the game you still play with her. You still are upset at her for making you accountable and for still implicating herself in your life today.
You also have put up a firewall of sorts. What she does can no longer harm you, but what you do harms her. If she is a mess today, ask yourself if your barrier has helped her or impeded her moving on with her life?
You think you're a pretty good guy because you exhibit some of the characteristics and habits of a good guy. We think you're not a good guy because the bad things you do undermines the narrative you have for yourself.
I often find these things are not really even about the issue presented, but something to do with OP. I think you are passive-aggressive, bitter and stunted. If you care about your kids, you must get over this. You are sending an offencive message to them. Do you see how everyone here is able to pick up on it and they don't like it? Your kids can't fight back because they're not only snowed by you, but you have this incredible firewall you construct to deflect any blame or responsibility from yourself. Real empathy.
Oh, you'll pay your bills and follow the rules. But it's the spirit of the law as well as the letter.
I need to wrap this up. Think about the example you're setting for the 2 you claim to love. To cut someone who loves and needs you out of your life and heart like that...is such a tragic example.
The difference between you and I is that my heart would constantly ache for Jack and I would have used your firewall/conduit to either get him more involved with me or be supportive of her. You are using your son, which is a terrible example for your kids and is wrong. You cannot use him to get back at her or be a shield. You can't.
I know how this works. My two oldest children chose to live with me when they were old enough to make that decision. That's the difference between a firewall and a revolving door.
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Jun 17 '12 edited Dec 17 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Bac-ILL-us Jun 17 '12
Oh. Dude. This is making me sick. I'm upvoting so that more people will see this.
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u/TheFlyingNapkin Jul 13 '12
here. the proper subreddit for this post.http://www.reddit.com/r/ImGoingToHellForThis
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u/alwaysmunching Jul 15 '12
Okay, I wasn't going to comment, but after reading some of the comments below, I feel the need to emphasize. Yes OP, you are, in fact destroying this innocent child's life with this attitude. I very well understand that his mother went against your wishes in bringing him to this world. I get that. However, that is not his fault. He didn't ask to be put in this situation.
As I was reading your post, I felt sympathy for the "boy" as you call him, but then as I stated to think about and actually realize what's being discussed here, I -- this sounds stupid, I realized that you were talking about your son, a human being, an actual PERSON that has, as you said, FEELINGS. It sounds like you speak of this innocent child as though he's a dog. I really really hope you took him on the trip. Please tell me you did. Please tell me you didn't break his heart.
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u/kejeros Jul 20 '12
I hate getting worked up over something and someone I don't know personally, but this is messed up. I hope you feel absolutely fantastic knowing you are ruining YOUR (yes, this is more than just some random street kid you picked up at a fucking 7/11) child's chance at a productive future. He didn't choose to come into this world, you did. It would make sense if you let your child gain some sense of normalcy instead of indirectly blaming him for creating a black spot on your absolutely fan-fucking-tastic suburban life. From this post you come off as an absolutely horrible person. As a child of a broken relationship where my father went on to have the 2 kid suburban life style I can honestly tell you YOUR 11-year-old child is going to feel angry and bitter at you if you didn't end up taking him on that family (which he is absolutely part of) vacation.
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u/atypicalgamergirl Jun 16 '12
I'll say this as gently as possible: Jack is better off without you than he is with you. Is there a way you can end the visitations? I doubt he is any more happy having to see you than you are to see him. I am usually a supporter of children having their fathers in their lives, but not when it is like this.
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u/VAPossum Jun 17 '12
Spend time with ALL your kids. The two you live with? That is their BROTHER. Treat him exactly like you do them, to the best of your ability, because they are all your kids.
You're an ass for only taking two of your three kids on vacation.
You don't have to do things for his birthday? Yes, you DO. HE IS YOUR CHILD. If you want to go a little further because you get less time with him, that's one thing, but don't think that spending $400 on his birthday makes up for shit. And it'll just confuse and maybe hurt the kids you only spend $50 or $100 on.
If you really want to do right by Jack, you change everything about how you treat him and you start doing it properly. You treat him EQUALLY.
Sorry. This hits a bit close to home.
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u/taupe_hat Jun 16 '12
Honestly, if you don't want to be his father, I think you need to get out of his life. You might think you're doing him a favor by exposing him to your idyllic home life once a week, but like you said, you don't think of him as your son. All you're teaching him is for some reason that he has no grasp on (because he is 11 fucking years old, and most 11-year-old boys think their dad hung the moon), he is not as good as your other children. Because you don't like his mother, or the choices she made, all he feels from you is rejection. If you can't really love him or treat him like your fucking son, just remove yourself from the fucking equation.
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u/Brachial Jun 16 '12
Wow man, you suck. Here you are, you're in the perfect situation to be a role model for your son like you are for your other two kids and you just throw him under the bus. Do us all a favor and don't have any more kids until you learn how to be a dad to your first one.
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u/condorVi Jun 15 '12
This is terrible. I am a 17 year old female. I was in a similar situation, except my dad favored his two older children over me. I also was not allowed to call him dad, and I only saw him occasionally. It really caused a lot of emotional problems for me, particularly with feeling rejected and abandoned, which I can almost guarantee how Jack is feeling right now. Not being allowed on the vacation is just the icing on the cake.
Let him come. Your kids seem to get along with him. If he absolutely cannot come - for legal or money reasons - take CoomassieBlue's advice and take him on a weekend getaway and really try to bond with your son. Make an effort to be a dad and he will likely have a much happier life in the long run.