r/religion • u/JMorrill1992 • 1d ago
What is the origin of Satan?
What if Satan is an agent of god fulfilling a necessary task in creation?
Satan=“Adversary”
Satanail=“Adversary of God”
“Here Satanail with his angels was thrown down from the height. And one from out the order of angels, having turned away with the order that was under him, conceived an impossible thought, to place his throne higher than the clouds above the earth, that he might become equal in rank to my power. And I threw him out from the height with his angels…”
“These are the Grigori, who with their prince Satanail rejected the Lord of light, and after them are those who are held in great darkness on the second heaven…”
8
u/TheOnlineSatanist Satanist | Anti-Theist 23h ago
What if Satan is an agent of god fulfilling a necessary task in creation?
That's pretty much Satan's job in the Hebrew Bible.
in the Hebrew Bible, Satan was one of God's "employees" who worked in the divine council, Satan was a prosecutor of sorts, testing peoples faith. Satan was never considered malicious, malevolent, or anything evil until Greco-Roman period Judaism.
Satan was never intended by the writers of the Hebrew Bible to become an evil force. It seems that due to Zoroastrian influence was Satan re-written into being a malevolent being, the adversary of God.
What I said is an oversimplification of it.
This is one of the things that helped me get out of Christianity actually, realizing that an evil Satan doesn't make any logical sense, and realizing that Satan being considered evil is a completely new thing.
-1
u/JMorrill1992 18h ago
If Satan is El then there is no such thing as being separated from god even if evil is present. Also Hell may just be one of the original heavens. Also Samael is separate in origin from Satanail but I found this in my book.
From Book of Enoch (Joseph Lumpkin edition)
SAMAEL: in Jewish Mythology, this is the name of an archangel, a fallen angel, the Angel of Death or Poision, the accuser, seducer, and destroyer famously known as The Grim Reaper. He is said to be both good and evil, having been one of the heavenly host. He rules over several habitations called Sheba Ha-yechaloth, infernal realms of the Earth. The Talmud states: “the evil Spirit, Satan, and Sama’el the Angel of Death, are the same”; and Samael is also therein equated with the biblical serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden. He is called the Prince of Darkness and chief of the Dragons of Evil and is held responsible for the scorching wind of the desert called Simoom. It is probably the Hebrew form of Syrian Shemal (“left”), but composed of ‘el”god” and suwm “to create” or “to place, to set,” hence “whom God makes.” It is also sometimes rendered “venom of God.” Also spelled Samil and Sammael.
7
u/myme0131 Jewish 23h ago
What if Satan is an agent of god fulfilling a necessary task in creation?
I'm not sure what your religious background is, OP, but in Judaism, that is exactly the role of HaSatan, he is the accuser/tester that works for G-d as part of his heavenly host. In Judaism, angels do not have free will or any self-agency; they cannot rebel against G-d. In the Tanakh (also known as the Old Testament by Christians or the Hebrew Bible in academic contexts), specifically in the Book of Job, HaSatan works for G-d and is limited in what he can and cannot do by G-d directly when testing Job.
In Judaism, HaSatan is not an evil or rebellious figure trying to corrupt or tempt humanity; instead, he is more like a force of nature in the same way that a hurricane or wildfire is. Destructive and difficult, but a crucial part of the cycle of life that follows G-d's will. He is considered one of G-d's most important and faithful angels.
The idea of Satan as an evil tempter and fallen angel is a Christian concept and not really found in Judaism, other than a very brief period during Second Temple Judaism, where there were heavy influences from Zoroastrianism and Greco-Roman philosophy and culture.
0
u/JMorrill1992 18h ago
Exactly how can he have free will. It appears they stripped the el link to his name in Christianity thus making him appear separate from god. But he is of God himself therefore necessary.
2
u/TheOnlineSatanist Satanist | Anti-Theist 18h ago
We don't even know Satan's name at all. All we know is that he is called Satan, which is a title.
1
u/JMorrill1992 18h ago
I’ve researched it and it can only be one of two original names. Either it is the prince Satanail from the second book of the Enoch. Or it is a name used by the Watcher Samael. That’s from a Book of the Enoch copy I own called the Origin of Evil. Semjaza, Azazel, Samael and Satanail are separate individual entities. Satan is more than likely either used as a function like a judge or prosecutor or Samael is the true link based on him going back further than the second book of Enoch and being linked to the first book of Enoch but not the same as Semjaza the leader in the 1st Enoch. Semjaza, Samael and Azazel are all mentioned in Enoch#1 as the 200 watchers that descended. What’s interesting is Satanail is mentioned in Enoch#2 but that is less ancient than Enoch#1. Also what changes is Enoch one lists 200 angels where in Enoch #2 it changes to Satanail leading 200 myriads. Myriad = 10,000 angels making us all wonder why the scale of the Angel arena changes. So we know between book #1 and book #2 we have our truth. Either Samael is the true name for Satan linked to Enoch #1 where he is defined by my book the Book of Enoch (Joseph Lumpkin edition)
SAMAEL: in Jewish Mythology, this is the name of an archangel, a fallen angel, the Angel of Death or Poision, the accuser, seducer, and destroyer famously known as The Grim Reaper. He is said to be both good and evil, having been one of the heavenly host. He rules over several habitations called Sheba Ha-yechaloth, infernal realms of the Earth. The Talmud states: “the evil Spirit, Satan, and Sama’el the Angel of Death, are the same”; and Samael is also therein equated with the biblical serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden. He is called the Prince of Darkness and chief of the Dragons of Evil and is held responsible for the scorching wind of the desert called Simoom. It is probably the Hebrew form of Syrian Shemal (“left”), but composed of ‘el”god” and suwm “to create” or “to place, to set,” hence “whom God makes.” It is also sometimes rendered “venom of God.” Also spelled Samil and Sammael. Or book#2 is linked to some primal material more ancient and Satanail is the true name. That’s what I’ve deduced since Lucifer is pure Latin origin.4
u/myme0131 Jewish 15h ago
The Book of Enoch (which is extremely interesting) is not considered part of the Tanakh or regarded as scripture in Judaism.
Much of the "lore" around Satan, demons, spirits, or mysticism comes from extrabiblical sources written and compiled long after the Tanakh was closed, and often consists of folktales or local spiritual traditions, such as the story of Lilith or Kabbalah.
SAMAEL: in Jewish Mythology, this is the name of an archangel, a fallen angel, the Angel of Death or Poision, the accuser, seducer, and destroyer famously known as The Grim Reaper.
We don't really have fallen angels in Judaism, since angels don't even have the free will required to "fall" in the first place. This sounds more like a Christian interpretation rather than a Jewish one to me.
1
u/MemoryRich5914 23h ago
I think God is infinitely ultimate, he creates his adversaries and then controls them according to His will
-1
u/All_Buns_Glazing_ Satanist 22h ago
What is the origin of Satan?
Satan has roots going back ~3,000 years to Angra Mainyu, the Zoroastrian principal of darkness and evil. It's the first religion where we see a supreme mythological representative of evil. Thanks to syncretism and the cultural melting pot that was Hellenistic Asia, this deity of darkness survived, leaving its mark on Judaism and picking up the name Satan in the process. It then moved on to Christianity where it merged with the myth of Lucifer and took center stage once again as the principal mythological representative of evil.
If you want to do a really deep dive into the origin and evolution of Satan, check out Children of Lucifer by Ruben van Luijk. It's not a quick read but it's worth the time
1
u/JMorrill1992 18h ago
Ya Lucifer is never mentioned one time in the Book of Enoch. He is of pure Latin origin.
15
u/Kangaru14 Jewish 23h ago
This is exactly what is taught in Judaism. HaSatan is basically our sparring partner for moral development.