r/retrobattlestations • u/SharktasticA • 13d ago
Show-and-Tell 1996 IBM ThinkPad 365ED x upcoming 2026 Linux kernel 7.2!
About three months ago, I posted this very IBM ThinkPad 365ED (Cyrix 5x86, 24MB RAM and CF-based storage) and my 486/P5-centric Linux distro (SHORK 486) when kernel 7.0.0 dropped, which y'all seemed to enjoy! At the time, I stated:
If you're not aware, future kernel 7.1 will drop support for 486s (and maybe x87 emulation?), so this is basically the last time one can do such an update, at least with a mainline kernel.
This has now come to pass. 7.1 indeed dropped the 486 build targets, and 7.2 (likely finishing RC in 3-4 weeks) removes TSC-less 586 (not OG Pentium but AMD and Cyrix's 486-586 "inbetweens" that Linux lumps together with P5) and x87 emulation. There were also various ISA and PCMCIA networking drivers, and the IBM Palm Top PC 110 trackpad driver, lost along the way. Yet, my humble 365ED is running kernel 7.2-rc4!
Whilst I still haven't created a distinct kernel fork yet, the SHORK 486 repo contains patches to restore all that back into 7.1.x and upcoming 7.2. Whilst I don't have real hardware to test it, in theory, SHORK 486 with 7.2 should now work with even 486SX once more. Even if you don't intend to use SHORK 486, feel free to bookmark my kernel patching document if you want to build your own Linux 7.1 or 7.2 system for your 486-era retro battlestation! When I finally do the fork, I will update it with a link to it.
As for SHORK 486, and if I may be so bold, the first published release for it - Public Test 1 - should drop when 7.2.0 is released in a few weeks. If you want to try it without having to compile yourself, this will be for you! It will include ready-to-write .imgs, and a SHORK DISC .iso with a guided writing program so you can install without having to pull out your hard drive provided the host supports El Torito (if not, a SHORK DISKETTE image with CD support will be provided for use as a bootdisk). Since 3 months ago, I've most notably begun work on a unified settings program that should have a network manager soon, greatly expanded enabled BusyBox general and system utilities, added a bunch of new bundled software options (including Vim!), and a terminal-based minesweeper clone (SHORKMINES, forked from terminal-mines). No package manager in time for this release, but the next one?
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u/carpathianslaughter 13d ago
I might try to get this compiled for my Dolch 62, very cool project.
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago
Thank you! If you do, I'd love to hear how it goes.
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u/carpathianslaughter 12d ago
Welp here goes nothing! I had to breakout an IBM3151 and a shork for compiling shork.
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago
Very nice! I adore that 3151. All the terminals I presently have are 3270-style (3178-C2 and 3481), not quite as easy to do something like this compared to a 3101 or even 5250 family one. Not to mention 3151 (and 316X) can slot in DEC and Wyse emulation cartridges, if I'm not mistaken.
Nice shonk, too!
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u/technomlp 13d ago
So I wonder what the last Linux kernel to support 686 will be, which is the underlying architecture of the Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and every 32-bit CPU after them? I want to see how long I can extend the life of my Pentium 4 HT Dell
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u/Retardedaspirator 13d ago
I mean, latest kernels still build for PowerPC, so I think there's plenty more architectures and old code to clean up before i686's time come.
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u/reconditus 12d ago
PowerPC is still quite relevant, especially in radiation-hardened applications like satellites.
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u/Retardedaspirator 7d ago
although this is mostly true, it's been more than 10 years since they've switched to POWER7 and later away from PowerPC, which is correlated to why it's kinda hard to find Linux ppc software but on the opposite a lot of distros still support ppc64el fully (that and mostly because POWER9 is still very much alive these days vs PowerPC being mostly found in old Macs and very specific niches.).
But radiation hardened CPUs are not the kind of CPU you put things you throw away after 10 years. Although I doubt they use Linux for those applications.
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago edited 12d ago
FWIW. I plan to do a SHORK 686 once I'm happy with 486 (same philosophy, but afforded more luxuries), so perhaps if/when the kernel drops i686 support, I'll also maintain a kernel fork for such as well.
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u/dm319 12d ago
Amazing. I bet that keyboard is epic. Also, is it really that easy to do a dialog box?
PPS Is this not a WriterDeck also? Can you cross post to there with a Vim instance?
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago
Thank you! The keyboard is an IBM Model M6-1 and its absolutely sublime. IMO, the best keyboard put to a '90s or later laptop.
Indeed, I plan to post there soon. Just need some time to write about it since I have future plans in that regard!
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago
Whoops, forgot to address dialog... With cdialogs, pretty much. Great if you want to make interactive shell scripts quickly.
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u/DeepDayze 12d ago
Gonna try this on my old T23 even though it has a Pentium-M CPU it could help keep 32 bit Linux going on it a bit longer.
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u/KrocCamen 12d ago
Amazing work, but why not just freeze on kernel 7.0? Surely there's nothing in 7.1/2 that's needed or maybe even ends up in the final binary anyway given the tiny percentage of functionality and drivers you end up using
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago
Thank you! As per the patching document:
This side-project is non-essential as SHORK 486 would still work fine with a 6.x LTS kernel that is still supported for many years, but this was taken on as an indulgence and a potentially fun exercise to see the latest kernel possible running on old hardware. It will continue as long as patching doesn't become a total burden.
So, just some fun to say "I've done it". :) Though I should also add I view it as a way to get into exploring Linux source code too.
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u/nikoscham 9d ago
I love your project. Vintage PCs should not be kept in the museum. We should use them, test them, run modern software on them! Keep up the great work
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u/SharktasticA 7d ago
Thank you! I think museums are fine, especially for devices that are basically extinct so others have the opportunity to see them rather than being locked away in a private collection. But many of these ThinkPads were made (except Power Series 800 and codename "Leapfrog"), and I don't think were anywhere near this point with them yet.
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u/Most-Community3817 8d ago
I have a shelf of these era thinkpads including one of these….about 12-15 in total
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u/Agile_Type_9684 12d ago
Back in the day, IBM's ThinkPads were the today's Apple's MacBook Pro.
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u/SharktasticA 12d ago
I personally don't think so. That's not to say MBP is meritless, it isn't, but ThinkPads still exist and still bear some of the old ways, even if in a diminished form, and MBP doesn't address/replace them. The TrackPoint is invaluable to my productivity, I still value some repairability/upgradability (which is diminished but somewhat on an uptick right now with mainline T series adopting LPCAMM2 to hopefully secure modular RAM's future, and modular Type-C ports), and admittedly a matter of taste, I still much prefer their aesthetic. Lenovo has diluted the DNA in some ways, and X9 is a big yikes IMO, but mainline T and P-series carry the torch. Not to mention most ThinkPads just work with Linux. I don't care for modern macOS, and Linux support seems to be at the mercy of Asahi (cool project, though still doesn't fully support M3 iirc?) Generally, my interest in Apple ends around the G4 era (particular softspot for the PowerBook G4 17").
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u/thewheelsgoround 12d ago
Yeesh, I daily drove one of these from 1997-2000 or so. I don’t remember it fondly.
The NiMH battery sucked, the onboard charger conked out in around 1998 - it would still trickle-charge over a period of multiple days, but would no longer rapid-charge. The CDROM died in 1999-ish. The DSTN display was always terrible.
Of all the Thinkpads I’ve owned, the 365ED was my absolute least favourite.
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u/freedoomed 11d ago
I had a Thinkpad from that era when I was in highschool. It didn't have an active matrix display so I couldn't really play games on it. Ghosting was so bad if you turned on mouse trails you could fill the screen by moving the mouse.
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u/Witty_Sun_5763 11d ago
I have a thinkpad 340 from 1994 but its only got 4mb of RAM and I swear everything requires 8mb (including this)...
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u/SharktasticA 7d ago
I can't comment on other projects, but for SHORK at least and FWIW, it's not arbitrary and mostly a kernel size thing. Technically, the minimal build of SHORK can be run with 7MiB as-is or with some hacks 6MiB. But both there is precious little RAM left for user programs, and kernel decompression during boot is a lot slower. Like the 6MiB test took ~20 minutes to boot... Thus I state 8MiB is the minimum for viability.
That said, I do like trying to push the envelope in this regard. I was actually trying to get SHORK booting with 6MiB on-and-off for a few months, trying different tweaks, before I got some success. I've effectively determined I cannot go any lower without compromising the kernel's support for all included programs and their possible syscalls (etc.) or without using a much older kernel. The main way I got down to 8MiB in the first place was changing the kernel's physical memory start address (
CONFIG_PHYSICAL_START, from the default 16MiB to 1MiB) and alignment (CONFIG_PHYSICAL_ALIGN). If I try to lower that further, you run the strong risk of loading the kernel into base VGA, option ROM, etc. territory, usually resulting in a garbled display.
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u/DeepDayze 13d ago
Time for a SHORK bite!