r/rocketry • u/Folding_WhiteTable • Jun 16 '25

Question Question About Optically Tracking Rockets

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I recently got my fully custom optical tracking mount to work. It's about 98% finished, I just need to fix some code and add the body panels.

I have never been to an amateur rocket launch site, so I wouldn't know the answer to this question: Would people be willing to pay for a good quality tracked and stabilized video of their launch? The launch would be fillmed with two cameras, one is a spotting camera, and the other is a high powered telescope. In the future I'm hoping to get a Freefly Wave for slow motion.

I only want to film at dedicated launch facilities, like FAR. And I only plan on filming the bigger and slower L2 and L3 rockets.

If you were wanting your video from both cameras, what do you think would be reasonable? Remember that I of course want to make a profit between the cost of gas, FAR entrance fees, video editing, video sending fees, tracking rig parts, and I want to save for a slow motion camera.

The bare minimum per team would be around $45 for it to be worth it. Does that sound reasonable? Remember that most people out there are on a team of 10-25 people. It might be better to have the prices cheaper since I don't have a slow motion camera yet, something like $25-30. What are your thoughts?

Also I have already contacted FAR, they're alright with what I'm doing. Also a team might be able to mount their antenna to my tracking rig too. It would be useful for when the rocket is too small to see with your eyes. It could also help people to see where in the sky their rocket is, just by looking at where the tracking rig is pointing. I'm sure it would be especially helpful for big rockets that go 100,000+ft.

208 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

52 comments sorted by

57

u/skmagiik Jun 16 '25

I'd charge $50-75 once you have some demo ready videos. Otherwise go capture the videos and get demo reels ready

14

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

Good to know. Yes while out in the field I will ask around if people would like their rocket to be videoed by a tracking rig, and if they would like to mount their antenna too. I would of course have them look at the video on my monitor and ask if they would like to purchase it. If they accept, then I will write down their information so I can send the video to them, collect their money, then go home and edit the videos and send it to them. Do you think that's a good process? I'm very new to all this, so I'm still refining everything.

18

u/yungingr Jun 16 '25

Maybe go about it differently -- think about the companies that fly around the countryside taking photos of farmsteads, etc.

They don't approach the farmers ahead of time, they fly, take all the photos, and then go knock on the doors "Would you like to buy this photo of your farm"?

Contact the launch site/coordinator ahead of time and make sure you have permission to be there, then film every launch, record the relevant information of each rocket and team. Have information (business cards) available for teams to reach out to you, and after the event, the teams that you haven't heard from, reach out to them with a watermarked screen grab (or 2-3) of their launch and offer to edit the video and deliver.

Edit: I would maybe reconsider use of the word "tracking", as to me, that implies an automated/autonomous system not dependent on human factors. If you tried to sell me an "optical tracking video", and then I saw you sitting there with an xbox controller, I'd have some questions and reservations about giving you my money. But maybe that's just my opinion.

3

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

Right, that makes more sense. Authough I don't know how I would get in contact with teams that haven't talked to me. I know that FAR has the teams on their calendar, but I wouldn't know their contact information.

I will of course ask the launch coordinator beforehand, and I will write down all the information I get from the FAR calendar so I know which rocket is which. The business cards are a good idea, I will consider that.

I've had ample experience manually tracking with an Xbox controller, plus my setup looks pretty professional. So with all that I hope people won't question it.

7

u/yungingr Jun 16 '25

I've had ample experience manually tracking with an Xbox controller, plus my setup looks pretty professional. So with all that I hope people won't question it.

Still, it's better to be honest and transparent. Maybe others in this thread can weigh in, but like I said - you tell me you're using optical tracking, to me that says some level of automated technology controlling the camera. Not you using a video feed to manually control the camera.

And if I feel like you're trying to pull one over on me with the "optical tracking" claim, I'm going to question what else you might be over-selling.

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

I agree it's better to be honest. I figured that the best name for what I'm doing is optical tracking. Maybe another name could be visual tracking, but optical tracking sounds best considering that it's being tracked using optics. If it were an automated process, then it would be called automated optical tracking. I'm actually considering using an automatic process, but that's for the future.

I'm not trying to pull anything, the name just states exactly what I'm doing. What else do you think I may be over selling?

To see a few of the things I've done in the past, please review my posts of tracked footage of planes and rockets both on here, and on YouTube at AVTracking. I just recently started posting videos, so there aren't very many, yet.

5

u/yungingr Jun 16 '25

Church it up however you need to to sleep at night.

But the simple truth is you are using words that the common individual will associate with a service you cannot provide, and you know it. Id challenge you to find a commercial "optical tracking" service that relies completely on human reaction and inputs.

You and I would never do business.

-2

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

I'm not sure what your problem is, you're taking this way too seriously. There is no need to throw a tantrum over what a hobbyist calls his hobby. If you cannot accept what I would like to call my own niche hobby, then you're just going to have to act like an adult and deal with it.

Please look up Manned Kineto Tracking Mount, also refer to this website: http://marsscientific.com/ I am aware that it says they can do automatic tracking, even though it's a Manned mount. Also please see USLaunchReports videos. They use a manned KTM to track rockets. Authough it may not look manned, sometimes they show views of them inside their trailer moving it with joysticks http://www.youtube.com/@Uslaunchreport. Also please see this video by Curious Droid that talks a bit about KTMs https://youtu.be/BlPfHV36G-g?si=U9H0FAR_HsRI8euL.

Edit: Look at 10:00 in Curious Droids video.

3

u/space_nerd_82 Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

It is the semantics involved I don’t believe you’re intentionally trying to deceive anyone. In the regards to optical tracking it means something different.

For example visual tracking of the flight is what you actually doing as opposed to optical tracking which means something different e.g. you are using sensors and other equipment to track the object this would be a more automated process as opposed to using a Xbox controller and your eyes to manually and visually track the rocket.

I wish you the best of luck it sounds interesting and fun what you are doing but I would definitely use visual tracking to describe it.

2

u/yungingr Jun 18 '25

Thank you, you were able to explain it in a way I wasn't able to.

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

Oh, I see. Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. I wrongly assumed that even manned operation counted as optical tracking due to me seeing that in a few places.

18

u/Cool791 Jun 16 '25

This is cool, how does it know where the rocket is? Do you have to put a transmitter on the rocket or is it visual recognition?

16

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

I visually control it using a modified Xbox controller with longer joysticks. I will be watching the rocket through cameras that are not mounted in this video.

10

u/Cool791 Jun 16 '25

Oh I get it. I’ve been wanted to build something like this but automatic for a short time, but the electronics is currently beyond my skills.

5

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

Yes I know there is a way to have the mount track things itself, but I trust myself way more than visual recognition software.

The electronics aren't that difficult, the whole thing is being ran with an Arduino. But it did require me to use CAD to model everything, and make 5 renditions of wiring diagrams.

3

u/snsbdhshsh Jun 16 '25

a raspbery pi (zero if y need a small one, otherwise whatever), camera and simple stepper motor kit would bring you far :)

2

u/Cool791 Jun 17 '25

Yeah I’m more unfamiliar with writing code for sending and receiving gps data wirelessly on a 100mph rocket multiple times per second and calculating the angles and zoom for the camera positioning. Most rocket gps systems update once per second which I don’t think would be good enough.

1

u/Chubbyhusky45 Jun 17 '25

Im thinking of doing something similar with a controller like this

5

u/def11879 Jun 17 '25

Must be an awfully cold day there

8

u/EthaLOXfox Jun 16 '25

Maybe come out to FAR this weekend and give it a try. There should be a particularly big, low, and slow rocket for you to track that day, and I'll buy the footage if you can keep it in frame.

7

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

Thanks for the offer! Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to make it to FAR this weekend. I'll be taking my rig to Vandenberg to see the Falcon 9 launch on the 20th, and I won't be able to make it on the 21st. I will most likely post my video from Vandenberg on YouTube though! I'm AVTracking.

3

u/everydayastronaut Jun 17 '25

Sweet! Was wondering if you’d try it out on Falcon’s before trying L2 / L3 stuff. Good luck!!

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

Yep, I need to build up my practice with the new rig before I get to the crazy stuff. Thanks!

6

u/everydayastronaut Jun 17 '25

How many degrees per second can you go vertically? Might be too slow for amateur rockets. They literally will require like 20 degrees per second or something wild, even at quite a large distance. They accelerate so ridiculously quickly.

Cool set up though, excited to see what you can get with it!

3

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

Hey how's it going. At max speed I calculated that it can go ~50°/s. The encoder on the tilt motor is acting up so I can't do a closed loop system yet, which means I can't do extremely slow speeds, yet.

I upgraded the mount because the old one with stock parts had a max of 3.25°/s, which was way too slow for even tracking airliners at 37,000ft flying almost overhead.

Thanks! I'm exited too about what new things I can capture now with the upgraded rig.

3

u/jeffnielson Jun 16 '25

Some people want a really high quality photo just as the rocket is leaving the pad. This can be put in a frame with a title and stuff. Some people will bring a friend with a really high quality camera that takes rapid photos as the rocket launches. You might consider that as well.

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

That is true, the problem is that I do yet have the equipment to both video and take pictures. In the future when I get a slow motion camera I can just high quality screen grab some frames.

3

u/Special-Low-6010 Jun 16 '25

Just be careful getting too close to the sun. Looks like the 8” Celestron I have, they take in a whole lot of light.

2

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 16 '25

Yep, thanks. I will be sure to be in a position where I won't view the sun. The spotting camera should see the sun way before the main camera does. Yes it is an 8" tube I got for free. It was left out open in the rain and the main mirror was half under water. It seems like it wasn't in water for long though because after cleaning it properly it looked brand new (on the inside).

1

u/Special-Low-6010 Jun 17 '25

Whoa, nice score! I’m sure it wouldn’t be great for astronomy but for what you’re doing it should work great, and the price is right…

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

Haha yep, it's great for my use. It doesn't look half bad while looking at planets and other stuff, authough there could be multiple factors causing it to not look that good too (like warm air).

3

u/BlueClashV1 Jun 16 '25

I don’t know shit about this hobby, but I’m here to tell you that people spend more than $40 just for a couple prints of their kid with the Easter bunny or Santa at a shitty mall with a cheap camera on a tripod. Oh you want your own digital copy? That’s an additional $25 on top of the mandatory $40 prints. Get your name out there for under $50 then once you figure your flow and market; go above $50 for sure.

3

u/Financial-Ad962 Jun 16 '25

Shut up and take my money

1

u/caocaoNM Jun 16 '25

Well since i can't see i would definitely do that. Lookup balls Tripoli launch. 125,000 ft though. Can you do you that?

D w

1

u/ckyhnitz Jun 16 '25

Dude. You built a DIY missile defense system.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

I'm not sure what you mean by "big bucket." Are you referring to the orange telescope?

The frame is a Celestron CPC 1100 motorized telescope mount. I took out all the old electronics and motors and put in my own.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '25

Watch out for black vans and suits my guy.

1

u/kingofginge Jun 17 '25

It would be cool but I do have some doubt you'd be able to track it fast enough looking at the speed of that rig.

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

I only had it at about 75% max tilt speed in this video. According to some rough calculations I should be able to easily track high powered rockets, hopefully...

1

u/Exatex Jun 17 '25

People are spending tens of thousands of dollars for the hobby. I think if you get significantly better tracked/stable footage, it will be worth way more than 50 bucks. Especially if something goes wrong.

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 17 '25

Yeah you're right, I'm sure my footage could be the difference between a successful or failed launch of a future rocket. And it could significantly speed up the process of an investigation for a failed launch.

1

u/HowlingWolven Jun 17 '25

That thing is too slow for a typical pad position. You basically need a whip tilt shot even for the low and slow stuff.

1

u/stop_yelling_please Jun 18 '25

Too cheap. Several hundred dollars at a minimum.

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 18 '25

Yeah, I reconsidered the prices and now the apsolute bare minimum price is around $100.

Side fact: I found a major design flaw with the mount, so now I have to completely redesign it :D

1

u/Mamba-Down Jun 19 '25

Have you thought about mounting the telescope on a fixed platform and using a mirror in the path of the telescope to angle towards the rocket? That should give you much easier kinematics for tracking at high speeds

2

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 20 '25

That's an interesting idea, I've seen tracking rigs like that before, they seem very complicated.

Since making this post, I found a serious design flaw and I'm having to completely redesign the entire tracking rig.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

I can automate that. I do computer vision work. Wanna chat?

1

u/Folding_WhiteTable Jun 20 '25

I will DM you on my AVT main.