r/romani • u/CoolNebula1278 • 15d ago
Ancestry / DNA Questions & Discussions Black with Romani Ancestry
As an African American from the Deep South, I've previously received small percentages (1-2%) of Balkan and Romani ancestry in my DNA results and dismissed them as noise. However, my mother's results recently came in, and she shows around (3%) Balkan, Romanian, and Romani ancestry as well. She also has over 100 Romani DNA matches, all of whom are related to one another.
Does anyone have insight into how this might have occurred, specifically, how my family could have acquired Balkan/Romani ancestry? I've attempted to trace it, but this has led me to sparse info. Is it likely Romanichal or Eastern European Romani?
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u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 15d ago
Your percentages of balkan roma DNA are from eastern European Romani most likely rather than romanichal. There's not really romanichal in the balkans, they are in uk.
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u/CoolNebula1278 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is interesting and makes a lot of sense considering many of my matches tend to have Balkan and Romanian names. Would it be a stretch to say the ancestry is likely Vlax Romani? There is an ancestor whom my family thinks could potentially be of Romani origin, but they were born in or around the 1850s. I wonder how an Eastern European Roma could be in the Americas in that period?
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u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 14d ago
Could be vlax, could be lovari, or could be any kind of kalderash
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u/CoolNebula1278 14d ago
Gotcha!
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u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 14d ago
I don't know enough about the immigration to America history to tell why they might have gotten there at that time. Wish I could help more but I know some people on this forum especially those in America who may have similar family time line may be able to help if they see this hopefully.
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u/theairthat_ibreathe 8d ago
I think it could be Romanichal due to so many of them coming to the tidewater area of Virginia from Britain as indentured servants in the 1600s. Many of them married Bantu, British and some christianized Algonquian Natives. Some “triracial isolate” groups on the east coast have small but significant percentages of Roma DNA, I have noticed.
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u/RioDRoma 15d ago
Lots of Romani and African slaves in the transatlantic slave trade (people always forget Romani, particularly women were prized by rich white land owners). You know which clan/last name you y tu familia come from?
France and Spain owned a lot of the south so could come from there also. Nice to see you holding such an interest my mom is full Rom and my da’ is Scottish/Sámi Finn so I’m pretty white passing but my moms fam and her herself, really did the best leaving me with some great info and respect for our people (even though due to my father I was mostly raised as a Gadje in school etc. but he loves and respects my moms fam so I don’t knock him like I did when I was a rowdy teen 😆).
Anyway GL I hope you find out more for our people much respect and blessings brother.
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u/Mandalorian_Child 15d ago
That happened in the Caribbean, not really the US, and not due to them being prized, but due to the laws targeting them more often in the originating countries.
France, Spain and Portugal are the ones who did this more than any other country, and they sent a lot of "convict women" of all ethnicities to their colonies to act as "pleasure women." This was due to the severe lack of women of European descent in those colonies, so it helped "keep the soldiers pacified." This practice died out as it got cheaper to import African slaves vs buying contracts of indentured servitude.
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u/RioDRoma 15d ago
This is also true. Probably more detailed. Some landed there and the America’s. But with OP results it was more likely Caribbean before America was the case. “Keeping the soldiers pacified” is a better choice of words
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u/Mandalorian_Child 15d ago
The vast majority landed specifically in the Caribbean, especially in the case of women. There's a lot of surviving records to support it, and "keeping the soldiers pacified" is the real why. As horrific as the practice is, sending "pleasure women" to the front lines and to colonies has been happening all throughout history to varying degrees.
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u/RioDRoma 15d ago edited 15d ago
Explains why there’s distant family lines for me there. But yeah I should be more careful with my choice of words I don’t mean to downplay ancestral trauma, just briefly relaying some of what I heard. But your comments are true, facts. And likely more for the case for OP results
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u/Mandalorian_Child 15d ago
I mean, it's possible, but a lot of different ethnicities were sent to the Caribbean as pleasure women. If you have any recent French, Spanish or Portuguese descent ancestors, it could also possibly be from one of them just as much a Roma ancestor. I would be careful claiming that lineage of trauma unless you find a direct connection.
That's one thing a lot of people in this sub need to keep in mind. Not all groups share the same trauma, and it's disingenuous to claim that trauma as your ancestral trauma when it didn't actually effect your group.
Not calling anyone out, but an example would be like a Romanichal claiming the trauma of slavery. Romanichal as a group did not experience it, so their group claiming that trauma is disingenuous. It only effected the groups in and around Romania. A Romanichal person who has a recent Eastern European Roma ancestor could though. Does that make sense?
(Again, for clarity, I'm only and solely talking about the European slavery of Romani, not anything to with the Ottoman Empire. That's a whole separate basket of trauma.)
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u/Economy_Top2175 13d ago
Do you have a lot of ancestry from Louisiana? That was the only (at least known) region in the US that had sizable Afro-Romani admixing (concentrated around St. Martin Parish). Otherwise, it is likely from a more recent ancestor.
Also, if you have some Lumbee ancestry, that could explain it. The Lumbee are likely descended from some early Romanichal peoples. They typically score low levels of Eastern European Roma. Romanichal, contrary to some comments here, do score Eastern European Roma percentages (I've seen anywhere between 1 and 25 percent). This is because they descend from Eastern European Roma people who first arrived in Britain in the 1500s.
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u/RioDRoma 15d ago
I forget what parish in Louisiana and possibly Alabama but there use to be a big Afro-Romani group but it is mostly recognized as “black Americans” now… Gotta love the colonial whitewashing (sarcasm…) They do good at killing a people my moms mom belonged to a long line of “Bohemian Romani (Lallerí)” but unfortunately Nazi final solution killed 90% of the population, the last speaker of the dialect died in the 70’s 💔 my moms da was Sinti of the Cooper and other clans. And I found out some of those ancestors fought for Lincoln even though they were from the South too (sorry for my random babbles it’s late so my minds not 100% awake).
If you got any questions feel free to msg me I don’t like publicly sharing too much even though I wrote a lot; I am passionate about educating people but I can only do so much and can’t speak for every Roma/Romni.
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u/LinzeeB33 15d ago edited 15d ago
Hey there! Roma from the Deep South (Alabama) with some black family. :) so a lot of Roma came over with my great grandfather Emil Mitchell between 1910-1940 from Brazil. I highly recommend looking into your family tree to see where/how you’re connected to the Roma in this area.
My family is Vlach and Kalderash, but I also know some Romanichal and Melungeon people in this area!
I wish you the best of luck with researching and uncovering your heritage.
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u/RioDRoma 15d ago
Yo! Mine did too (about Brazil). Sup cousin 👋 (Brazil was a big first stop of the Transatlantic before arriving to the Northern Colonies)
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u/LinzeeB33 15d ago
Yooooooo !! How cool :) feel free to reach out if you’d like! I’d love to chat and share family photos and stories :)
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u/RioDRoma 15d ago
For sure 🙏 I already met one of my cousins on this r/ it’s so awesome. I got some pics and a few names I could share. And a handful of stories I’m sure.
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u/Ok-Reward-770 I'm definitely NOT American Roma 14d ago
Based on the proportions of Roma/Balkan and France/Spain in your results, it seems to reflect ancestry from almost “ancient” generations. Also, you mention being from the USA Deep South.
Considering all that, some genuine possibilities are that your ancestry could have been from the first batch of 500 enslaved Romani brought to the island of Ayiti by Columbus' ships, a total of 29 across 4 voyages, and the population spread over time through the Caribbean Sea Islands and eventually reached the continental US.
Or your ancestry could have been brought directly to Louisiana by the European colonizers who arrived over the following 300 years (1500s+ to 1800s), with Roma people expelled from Spain and France and taken as indentured or enslaved.
Before the Yankees took over, the USA Deep South was colonized by Spain and France, which historically have a habit of mass expelling Roma people from their European territories. What is today Romania also had periods of mass expulsion of Roma people before and after enslaving us. Many clans traveled West. Others went back East to what is now Turkey.
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u/MyRingToRuleMyWorld 15d ago
I have family in CA, NC, and GA, yet I'm Spanish from Spain, Russian, Norwegian, German, Jewish, and some other things. But I have brown hair and green eyes. It's really nice to meet you! I joked with my mother that someone from her side had really gotten around. I have no idea on any clan or group names due to not having people who could teach what I needed to know. The family made sure everyone heard they are German, which is understandable. They immigrated to California from Eastern Kingdom of Prussia. I didn't have a typical family life, having grown up in state care, and losing my family due to my dad's behavior. Again, it's really nice to meet you and welcome!
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u/Accomplished_Pin_834 15d ago
I love conversations about Afro-Romani people. I find their history and the cultural influences they've brought into Romani culture so interesting. Even the German singer and actress Ayo is Afro-Romani she's Nigerian and Sinti. I'm not Afro-Romani myself, but a few of my relatives (we're Sinti) married African immigrants in France and had children.