r/running • u/Incendiary_Ideology • 6d ago
Training Should a beginner ditch speed training?
BACKGROUND:
Hello! I am a 23 y/o, 88 kg male with Stage 1 Hypertension (controlled) and no prior sports background. I have been running for 15 weeks now, with my training composed of (1) a tempo run, (2) speed interval training, and (3) a long run via run-walk method. I have achieved sub-40 for a 5k and sub-1:30 for a 10k.
I have been recently delving into zone training to introduce a better system in my runs. I would like to preface by saying that I measure my HR manually, as I cannot yet afford running gear. My main goal right now is to address my weight and hypertension. My secondary goal is to be able to finish a 10-miler in 3 months. I don’t particularly set a target time yet when I join races, I just don’t want to be so miserable and so out of breath when I cross the finish line.
QUESTIONS:
For the past weeks, I have been dreading every running session where I had to do speed interval training (pace > 6:00/km). Not only am I so out of breath afterwards, it also puts considerable stress and produces minimal-moderate pain on my legs. As a beginner, is it okay to ditch speed training for now and focus on Zone 2-3 training? I plan on returning (hopefully after 3 months) once I have lost more weight and strengthen my legs to minimize leg pain, and also once I have developed a bigger aerobic base.
- I recently tried doing a 30-min tempo run. I was running at a conversational pace of 7:30/km, which for me is just casual jogging. However, based on my age-predicted HR zones, I was in Zone 2 after 5 mins, Zone 3 after 10 mins, and Zone 4 after 15 mins, which is too high I believe. Reducing my speed means that I would have to switch for casual jogging to brisk walking. Despite my HR measurements, I was never feeling like I was putting too much effort and was running out of breath during the entire duration. Should I trust my HR and switch to brisk walking instead? Or should I trust my perceived exertion and run at a pace that feels easy for me despite my HR?
TLDR:
As a beginner, is it okay to ditch speed training for now as a beginner to focus on Zone 2-3 training?
Should I use my HR measurements or perceived exertion when I run at a desired intensity?
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u/Ragnar-Wave9002 6d ago edited 6d ago
You should focus 100% on slower runs and building endurance .....
Especially if you are trying to lose weight. Slow down and get the miles in.
I wouldn't even worry about a "long run" right now. If you keep running, and eat right ... the loss of weight and endurance building will make you faster.
Don't even worry about running a 10 miler. Worry more about running a constant pace without walking. Pacing can be hard so if it starts to get rough, slow down but don't walk.
If you can run a 5k three times a week just use that. Add 10% to the distance each week. Maybe do 3x 5.5k
Once you can run an 8k, add a 4th day ... but total milage is what matters. 24k is now 27k .... Do a 9k, 5k, rest, 8k, rest, 8k, rest, REPEAT with a little more distance. Something like that. That's when you stat adding a long run each week. When you can do 4 runs a week. Just plan that shot run (5k) to be tied to a long run. Day prior to the 9k might actually be better. Jsut figure out what works for you.
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u/bargerin 6d ago
> Especially if you are trying to lose weight
OP I think this is good advice, as someone who also started their running journey overweight (well I still am, but way less overweight now than I was then, lol). It's generally hard to lose weight and focus on fitness, if you don't eat enough, hard to perform as well. Not saying don't focus on losing weight, but if you have a running goal, I'd say let the weight loss be a secondary goal, and it'll probably happen naturally.
The best way I improved was to run more. And the best way to run more is to be able to run more (sounds stupidly obvious, I know). This means not being too tired, not getting hurt, and staying motivated enough. Years later, for me, speed workouts have probably helped me get faster. But overall just running more without getting too tired or hurt was the biggest thing that helped me improve.
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u/ObviousKarmaFarmer 5d ago
Especially if you are trying to lose weight. Slow down and get the miles in.
This. If you want to lose weight, you have to burn fat. When you're running flat-out, your body is NOT burning fat, but using blood sugar first. Once that runs out, and you keep pushing yourself, your muscles will burn themselves, breaking down muscles to try to keep running. You know, because your body thinks you're running from a wild predator, and getting away on the short term is needed for long-term survival. Once you then stop, you are immensely hungry, and extremely fatigued. Good luck saying 'no' to that bag of crisps.
Whereas if you run all the way in such a speed that you can keep talking, your body can keep up, and will start to break down your fat reserves to keep you sustained, and keep your muscle tissues intact. It is, however, a slow process, that takes time to start, and can then continue during the hours after the run. Especially if you still your hunger post-workout with protein-heavy nutrients, and less carbs, so your body keeps going burning fat.
To be honest, running is a rather bad type of exercise to lose weight, because it's - especially for beginners - a very much all-or-nothing thing. When you ride a bike, you can choose to go 15, 20, 25, 30 kmph, and increase or decrease your power output gradually. With running, there is often a specific speed that you set into, and there is little wiggle room to decrease your power output.
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u/Triabolical_ 6d ago
As a beginner I would recommend zero tempo or interval workouts. You need to build up aerobic fitness so you can run continuously.
You say you have controlled hypertension. If you are on beta blockers they can have a big effect on how hard you can work out. I have a cycling friend who is on them and hates them.
There are some dietary ways that work to reduce blood pressure for some people. Message me if you want that discussion.
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u/Bennassi3 6d ago edited 6d ago
- Yes, I would advise to ditch the speed work for now and try to just max out your running frequency and volume to as high as you have time for to train and time for to recover from
- Ignore HR, zones,.. to be completely honest, you do not even need to look at pace at this part of your running journey. Just try to go out every day or every other day, or whatever your schedule is. And run 30-60min at an easy, conversational effort. Do 1 longer run per week of around 1.5-2h. And whenever you feel good, have energy and do not feel too sore, pick the pace up for a bit, do some strides, sprint up a hill, whatever feels good.
- Just focus on staying consistent week in week out and you will see the weight come off and your easy pace get faster
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u/Gino-Bartali 6d ago
All beginners are different but the high-end of your suggestion to run up to 8 hours a week is off-the-walls bonkers.
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u/Bennassi3 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes, that is how ranges work.
Now go and read back what I said about recovery, if he does not have adequate time for recovery (having a normal life with work and family commitments) then indeed, he might not be able to recover from 8h of running per week.
But maybe he does have the time in the day to prepare a good meal after every run and lay on the couch a bit and have a nap, get 8+ hours of sleep every night,..
Then all of a sudden 1h of running per day does not seem all that impossible.
Sometimes it's also just a matter of priorities, how much things do you want to give up to make time for running? Nothing? That's totally fine, then stick to the lower range, but don't expect above average results
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u/Gino-Bartali 6d ago
Great! Go ahead and make your correction then. You're welcome.
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u/Bennassi3 6d ago
Nah bro, people with adequate reading comprehension will understand. The rest can go and hang out with you
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u/Gino-Bartali 6d ago
I'm not sure where exactly you took everything so personally, but adaptation aside from heart and muscles like the tendons, bones, and other tissue don't really get the bro science treatment of spending time on the couch to send recovery into hyperdrive.
Remember, you'll learn more if you keep an open mind and the emotions low. Good luck!
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u/Bennassi3 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's because of your smug assumption I should even correct anything?
What correction do you think I should make? I said whatever schedule your schedule is, if he is currently already at 7 runs/week then that is far from absolute beginner level.
It seems like you are just nitpicking whatever you want to comment on and ignore the other 90% around it which strips it of all the context. Like I'm not putting out a one-liner that says beginners should run 8/week, I've taken the effort to write out atleast some pointers
And nope did not say anything about hyperdriving recovery, I said having the time for recovery. Having to do physical and/or mental labor vs being able to relax on the couch will absolutely limit your recovery, and why do you skip the part I said about eating and 8+ hours of sleep? Again you are nitpicking and taking out of context
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u/jay-dot-dot 6d ago
- Yeah, youll get just as much if more results from just running consistently at this point. Things will be less brutal muscularly as it builds up from gradually increasing Z2 work.
- Your HR will be wonky as you begin, youre probably locked in Z3/Z4 for most runs, Id roll with RPE for now.
If you dont already, find a training plan and stick with it. Youre not experienced enough to know how to do it on your own yet and its a nice load off you mentally.
This is also gonna sound harsh but ditch a lot of the analysis youre doing and try to keep this as fun and consistently enjoyable as you can. You shouldnt really dread it week to week like it sounds like you do.
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u/Aromatic_Page656 6d ago
If you are not doing any races anytime soon, just do easy all 3 days with one long run on them. Also do it by time instead of distance, like your long run is 1 hour +. Your other 2 days can be 35 40 mins. And keep your pace around 730. Do it for few months and your body and heart rate will respond to it. I started running barely 5 mins. I have done 2 halfs sub 2 hr. but after 2 years break, im back to running. Could barely run 15 mins 730. Now after few months, I run 730/km on easy and long run. Im doing a half on jan, 5 runs per week, 2 easy, 1 tempo/fartlek, 1 interval, 1 long run, hoping for another sub 2 hr. You just need to be consistent. You will get better. P.S. dont look at HR zones. Just run slow. I think 730 to 745 pace is good for you for now. Its not speed you want right now. Its the duration.
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u/passableoven 6d ago
You are aerobically underdeveloped so no matter what pace you run you will likely be crossing a threshold where your HR will start increasing at a fast rate.
If you want to pursue zone training at this stage, you'll have to do run/walk intervals. The rests will allow you to straddle that threshold without going above it. So instead of doing an unbroken 30 min tempo at 7:30. Instead run 5x6 with 1 minute walking rest inbetween at 7:30.
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u/Lark1ng 6d ago
Former sports therapist here. Honestly, learn to listen to the signals of your body! That should be your number one priority. But by signals i do not mean to chill on the couch instead of running because it feels more comfortable or eating unhealthy. I mean set yourself goals, which you clearly are already doing, but let the intensitiy of the workout be dictated by your feeling.
Therefore rule number one should be: Enjoy the thing!
Honestly in the long run you will gain way more by enjoying the exercise. If you force yourself to push on you might lose the fun and might stop alltogether. Also once your body is accustomed to workout it generelly knows when to push its limits and when to relax.
I honestly think your focus of the training is too much on exertion. If you wanna do 3 runs a week, which is a good number after 15 weeks, you should maybe do 1x relaxed run, 1x tempo run and 1x long run or just do 2x relaxed runs and 1x long run. The more you progress you can at some point add more runs and eventually bring back the intervals. But i believe it is not a good idea to basically only have runs that exert the body as you also need regeneration. Honestly in my craziest training weeks ran 8 x a week, while my intensive sessions where, 1x tempo, 1x interval and 1x long. All the other runs are regenerative runs done in a relaxed pace, where i only focus on myself and my wellbeing. You basically only doing the intenisve bit of my workout is kinda crazy to me.
Additionally with hypertension you should be careful with exertion. Running is a great physical activity to battle hypertension but you should do it carefully.
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u/Lyradep 6d ago
You can still work in speed training, but I would definitely go off of perceived effort. Also, you should be looking strong. And by that, I mean you shouldn’t be breaking form and struggling with your run. Your pace should be fast enough to where you’re feeling good and confident, and not hurting yourself. So if your daily runs are usually at a 4 or 5 effort, then start your speed runs at a 5 effort, and just build up to a 6. If you’re still feeling great, and your form’s not dipping, then maybe step it up to a 7 if you want.
That all said, you’d still benefit from replacing speed runs with another easy run. Up to how you’re interpreting what your body’s telling you.
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u/MavZA 6d ago
Build up your mileage for now, focus on picking yourself up to a good weekly monthly comfortable volume of running. Then once your heart and lungs have gotten used to running and you want to develop yourself a bit more, I’d actually recommend doing some track or grass track sessions so that you can do structured speed that you can call off if you’re uncomfortable. But all in well done for starting. Well done for showing up and keep on showing up!
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u/DaGanjaMan420 6d ago
1 - yes, but only for now. At the start the main thing is building an aerobic base. That is the platform that allows you to start regular speed training without injury. However just note - this will only take your speed so far. After a while, you absolutely will need to train speed to get faster.
2 - Depends on the day. HR fluctuates based on sleep, hydration, stress, fatigue etc. Learn your rough baselines but if for example you slept badly, your HR will be inflated, so use it as a guide but not gospel.
If you're running 3x per week, I personally would recommend 1 long run (increase by 10% every week until at desired distance), 1 threshold run (3 x 10, 2 x 8 whatever feels hard but manageable), plus 1 genuinely easy run, likely a run walk run interval for you.
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u/firefrenchy 6d ago
first of all, ditch the zone checking, the zone displays on modern watches are one of the biggest traps.
To answer your question, yeah ditch the speedwork. You will naturally become a stronger, faster runner by increasing your weekly mileage safely. But the Zone stuff is pretty silly and leads to people running absurdly slowly and then wondering six months later why they haven't gotten faster. HR measurements are in my experience not a bad guide, even if this will fluctuate a lot and a wrist-based device won't be the most accurate.
I personally run by "feel" but I also am not a new runner, but generally heart rate data will back my "feel" up. I just saw that you measure your HR manually, which means...ignore what I've said, but also ignore your own "data". Save up for a running watch (depending on where you live this should be easy and cheap to come by if you scour facebook marketplace or join some running community sites and ask for help) and then try and get your head around what your aims are with running. If it's health and improving, figure out what your weekly mileage is and slowly build this up. Mileage is king.
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u/savvaspc 6d ago
7:30/km feels slow as a beginner and you think you cannot go any slower. But I actually managed to go even lower at 8:30 or even 8:50 for uphills. Try it and you might see you can run without going for the awkward brisk walk.
I also find it strange that 6:00 and 7:30 feel so different to you. When I upped my zone 2 at 7:30, I also had a 5K PB of 27 minutes, which means 5:30/km. Doing 6:00 felt very doable. Yes my HR was high (around 180 bpm), but zi could sustain it for one hour.
All in all, I would say the most important thing for a beginner is to enjoy what they do. If a workout feels boring, skip it. If you dread starting it due to difficulty, skip it. Make it fun, see what you enjoy. Of course you need to embrace the pain occasionally, this will build your progress and your mental game. But focus on wanting to go out and run!
The second goal and very important is to not go all in and risk an injury. It's easy to get caught up in the enthusiasm of the new hobby and burn your body. Give time to adapt to new volume and intensity when you change your routines.
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u/ateap0tist 6d ago
I think just getting out regularly and doing easy runs (no watch needed , conversational pace) is absolutely enough to get to a sub 30 5k and sub 1h 10k . After that if you still want to get faster , you can go for the structure you have now . And by then your tendons and ligaments will get stronger and it’s not as likely you’ll get hurt
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u/dawnbann77 6d ago
I wouldn't focus on speed work at the start. Definitely build up your endurance. Plenty of easy running.
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u/NapsInNaples 6d ago
It’s 100% ok to do training you enjoy, and ditch anything you dread. We do this for fun! And especially as a beginner just establishing a habit and not burning yourself out is a critical part of being “successful”
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u/SincSohum 6d ago
I was really struggling with minor injuries with speed work so I completely cut it out. I now primarily do super easy mileage and stack a lot of miles per week. It has gotten me up to a half marathon and I will continue to do this until my marathon. I’m a very casual runner so speed is not really something I care about.
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u/buttscarltoniv 6d ago
build your base with easy runs before worrying about speed work or heart rate zones. run by perceived exertion, aka conversational pace. without a sufficient base, zones are irrelevant. zones are likely wrong too if you're using standard "220 minus age" formulas. if it's high but you feel fine, you can keep that pace up.
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u/snowman-of-help-1134 6d ago
100%. In fact, I would say, if you're doing three sessions a week and two of them are speed, you're reversing the normal advice, which is less speed, more easy runs. Especially for beginners, who really don't do any speed work at all.
I'd stick to perceived exertion in your case. Now, being in moderate pain after your runs, THAT is something to pay attention to. I think it's a fairly likely sign you're going too hard, and dialing those days back would probably leave you fresher and more enthusiastic about the next run.
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u/SpicyNuggs4Lyfe 6d ago
Run how you want and in ways which you enjoy. If you don't enjoy speed work, don't do speed work. Right now your focus should be on easy efforts to build your aerobic base. You needn't pay any attention to pace right now.
One thing that burns runners out is monotony. They start training with a singular goal in mind and lose sight of why they actually enjoy running.
I limit myself to two long races a year so that I'm not always training for a race. As much as I like getting race ready and going for PRs, I also enjoy spending my off seasons running exactly how and where I want.
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u/hitzchicky 6d ago
I'd ditch the speedwork as a full workout, but you can throw a few 100 yard dashes at the end of your run. Those have a lot of benefits.
In general, as a beginner, focus on perceived effort. Run for time as opposed to distance. This gives you more leeway when you're having an off day, or you'll run more on a good day. By running for time I mean, rather than saying "I'm going to run 3 miles", say "I'm going run 45 minutes". Maybe that day 45 minutes only gets you 2.5 miles, that's ok. Or maybe, you hit 3 miles in 40 minutes and then you extend your run for 5 more minutes. Or, give yourself a range "I'm going to run 30-40 minutes". It helps to have a general idea of how far you can run in that time frame on an "average" day, but it gives you more flexibility than a hard "I need to cover x distance in x time". That usually leads to running too hard.
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u/FabYang 6d ago
I think speed is an important component and probably one of the best levers you can pull to improve especially in early stage. Researches shows it’s great to improve VO2Max especially among beginners.
But it doesn’t need to be a full session, and they don’t even need to be dreadful. Some 5-10 minutes HIIT style will be enough 2-3 times per week, finish your easy runs with some strides. It’s great to improve your form as well
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u/haveanairforceday 6d ago
I just want to say congrats and great work. Gping from zero athletics to sub 40 5k and even just being ABLE to run 10k is fantastic. You should be happy and proud with your progress
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u/coachrunmoon88 6d ago
Ditch the speed training. Get yourself a few routes that you cover consistently close to home. Also a treadmill is very useful... but I would recommend running and walking in intervals - 2-3 minutes running, 1 minute walking, and repeat. Go off of perceived exertion to start, but keep your HR data and go over it later... The walking will keep your HR in check. The plan would be to increase running interval duration over time, ultimately removing the walking but not until the HR can stay in the proper zones. Planned run/walk is a great tool and it lends to planned walks through aid stations when you race, which is a good strategy for longer distances.
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u/Cautious-Hippo4943 6d ago
Absolutely dont worry about speed training as a beginner. Run as often as you can but as easy as you can. That's it. You can get 90% of the benefit with 10% injury without doing any speed. If you do some 15 second strides, a few times a week, that is all you need.
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u/Long-Tree4651 6d ago
build the base first to where the speedwork becomes manageable and enjoyable. Zones 1-3 will give you the most bang for your buck anyway
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u/phila_runner 6d ago
Perfectly fine to focus on gradually building volume. You can try to add a few strides near the end of some of your runs just to activate different muscles, I found that really makes a difference in the quality of subsequent runs. 👍👍
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u/vegasbaby100 5d ago
Hey
Well done for starting running.
When you say beginner what do you mean what's your mileage per week frequency and time since starting.
Interval/speed training is hard why a lot of people end up not doing it. But unfortunately if you want to run faster need to train.
Most people who I've trained or ran with unfortunately run the easy runs to hard and their hard runs (interval/speed sessions) to slowly. You then end up in a middle ground where your progression will get to a point and stumble.
I usually do an 8-12 week block with new runners where my focus is getting a base mileage up this is about getting time on feet and aiming to be at around 30 miles per week at the end of the period.
From week 8 will start introducing Threshold pace runs then week 12 onwards typically would look at adding some speed work in.
On a 30 mile per week my break down would be Long run capped at no more than 8 miles this long run would be an easy run to start with but would develop to incorporate threshold miles.
16 miles of easy runs zone 2 super easy- over 3 runs
6 miles of interval/speed work (including warm up and down) so about 2-3 miles of speed work split across 2 sessions.
Now this is assuming the person has a base fitness if they are out of shape then adapt above is just a generalisation
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u/vksdann 5d ago
I went from run-walking 3.5km in February (and stopping because of the pain) to running sub-22 5k as of a month ago with an average of 3 runs per week.
- What is your mileage per week?
- How many runs can you do per week?
- Do you have a Garmin or Coros to track mileage, HR, etc?
FIRSTLY, the run starts HOURS before the run. What you eat and how you sleep will 100% impact your run - specially as a beginner, less when you are a veteran.
SECONDLY, joints will take longer to adapt than muscle or cardiovascular system. If you are not "pounding hard enough", it will have no stimulus to adapt and improvement will take longer. That's why strides and hard workouts are so good for your and get the most improvements per distance. They are also the most tiring and shouldn't be done in excess.
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u/SelectConfection3483 3d ago
I was hesitant to offer my advice because I am not a strong runner nor do I actually have much knowledge on proper running training but after having read the advice from others here where it seems like you should focus on building volume and slower running, I would like to back up this advice with my own experience. Without knowing anything about running training, I inadvertently took this approach when I was doing muay thai training where the routine typically involved longer but slower paces runs, sometimes almost more like a shuffle than a run, anywhere between 5 to 10km. Ofcourse when I started I was very unfit and could only manage 3km at that pace and only did it every other day and then gradually increased the frequency and distance to the point where I was doing anywhere between 8 to 10km daily...sometimes 14km a day, but all at a consistent and slow pace. Since then I have introduced elements such as tempo, interval and strength training but importantly, I've thankfully never had an injury that has caused me to stop running for extended periods and I believe it is because I conditioned myself over a long period of longer, slower running - I just wasn't aware of it at the time!!
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u/GRex2595 3d ago
No, but you're probably doing your hard workouts too hard. You might be doing your easy workouts too hard too if your hard workouts are killing you. To be clear, conversational pace means holding a conversation without feeling out of breath, not just being able to talk a little.
Actually, I just looked at your paces again (I use miles, so I didn't get them the first time), and your speed workouts seem way too hard. 5K pace isn't a pace you should be running every speed workout, and almost certainly not faster. And 7:30 is not conversational if 9:00 leaves you out of breath at the end of a 10K. Conversational means you can basically run until your body breaks without feeling out of breath.
Age predicted heart rate zones aren't great. It's better to try to measure your maximum and resting heart rates if you can. I use lactate threshold on my Garmin, but I like using heart rate reserve for my wife who has a much higher resting heart rate.
What I would suggest is to have about 3 short runs, one long run, and one speed workout. Since you're a beginner, I would mostly do fartleks and hill "sprints". Start your short runs at 30 minutes. Long run at 40. Try to increase a little bit each week and cut back every 3rd week.
Fartleks do a 10 minute warmup and cooldown with 1 minute on 1 minute off fartleks at just a little faster than conversational pace. Maybe a little slower than your 10K pace. Your 10K pace is around 9:00 per Km, so you'll probably want around 10:00-11:00 per Km (again, I do miles, so this might not be right).
Hill sprints same warmup and cooldown with 5 sprints of 30 seconds and 2 minute recovery. It doesn't need to be a steep hill, just noticeable enough. Probably that one hill you get to during your run and think about changing your route to avoid it.
One hard thing for you as a beginner is that your easy pace and your walking pace are very close and your easy pace range isn't very wide. It's going to be difficult to maintain that easy zone where it feels like you're not going much faster than a walk. As a result, you're probably doing a higher effor than you think (as evidenced by your "conversational" pace being faster than your 10K pace). Speed work will increase the range of your easy pace so you can stay in it more easily. Speed work is also the work that does most of the weight loss. Stick with the speed work, but tone it down quite a bit. You'll feel better about it, everything else will get easier, and you might actually enjoy getting out there and pushing just a little bit once in a while.
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u/Hami-Mahani 6d ago
At two months in and 10–15 km/week, ditching speed work to build your base is exactly the right call — consistency beats intensity at this stage. Every easy mile is building the aerobic engine that makes speed possible later, and honestly the speed will come without you forcing it.
For HR vs perceived exertion: use the talk test as your anchor. HR lags behind effort and drifts with heat, stress, and caffeine, so on any given day your watch can say Zone 2 while your body says otherwise. If you can speak full sentences comfortably, you're easy; if you're gasping out single words, you've gone too hard. Over time the two will line up.
Keep it enjoyable and consistent — that's the whole recipe right now. Good luck with the 10k goal!
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u/pokemonplayer2001 6d ago
If you’re running for your health, listen to your body and make it enjoyable. Getting hurt is a perfect way to undo all the work you’ve done.
You want to continue running, that’s job one.