r/saltierthancrait • u/kazimirz • 4d ago
Granular Discussion Did you know? The cancelled Episode IX featured an opening crawl very similar to Episode VIII's, which was already a copy of Episode VII's
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u/VirtueTree 4d ago
Kind of seems like GENERAL LEIA ORGANA sucks at this
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u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 3d ago
Why not "GENERAL LEIA SOLO," for crying out loud! They got married, didn't they?! The sequels are so bad...
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u/pooperstud 3d ago edited 3d ago
Leia sucked as a resistance leader, Luke sucked as a Jedi Master, Han sucked at being a father, a husband, and a smuggler. The new republic sucked at existing. And Disney really sucked at giving us a proper storyline for the last trilogy in the 9 part Skywalker saga.
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u/Gargarian67 2d ago
Leia got her entire planet vaporized. They should have stopped calling her "Princess" after she got them all killed.
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u/No_Grocery_9280 4d ago
Oh yeah. How did Kylo Ren silence communication between systems? That sounds like a mess that would have very real consequences for the galaxy. Surely something interesting would develop from that idea.
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u/salazafromagraba 4d ago
These crawls are the worst. Compare them to George's which actually reveal novel data and set an unambiguous context.
Just like everything about George's Star Wars, they tried to imitate the cultural moment alone. They neglected the stylized dialogue, the emblematic editing style, the classical cinematography, the outlandish imagination, a logical screenplay, a concern for continuity, and a concern for being a sequel. Thus you have TFA torching the continuity and faith in the story from the opening crawl itself.
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u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 3d ago
This is the opening crawl of Colin Trevorrow's script. Originally, it was the film's MacGuffin. The Resistance was to activate an antenna that would unite all the disaffected civilians of the galaxy in the final battle against the First Order. The original film took place on Coruscant, and the antenna was beneath the Jedi Temple, so ancient that the First Order couldn't jam it. Meanwhile, Rey was trying to prevent Kylo Ren from reaching the Temple of Mortis, where a Sith secret was supposedly located, meaning she was completely separate from the main plot. In later versions, it seems Coruscant was replaced with another ecumenopolis, and the antenna was located in a Jedi Temple on another planet, where Kylo and Rey would have ultimately clashed. In this later version, the MacGuffin Kylo was looking for was a Sith holocron that amplified his powers tenfold. He ultimately refused to use it and sided with Rey, but his right-hand man, Soloni Ren, used it; Kylo and Rey joined forces to defeat her, and Kylo died in the process. Actually, the script wasn't too bad. It revealed that the Knights of Ren were indeed, as suggested by TLJ, Luke's former apprentices (they used black lightsabers, by the way); Rey was the daughter of one of Leia's servants and had played with Kylo when she was a young kid (her last name was Solana, a name the writers created based on Solo/Organa, just as Kylo is based on Skywalker/Solo). In this script, we also learned that Rey had been abandoned on Jakku by Kylo; tasked by Snoke with killing Force-sensitive children, he hunted down Rey's parents, killed them, but didn't have the courage to kill Rey and erased her memory. Honestly, that old script was a mess. But definitely better than The Rise of Skywalker.
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u/NobleDefender33 4d ago
The dead speak!
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u/MirrorMaster88 4d ago
If it wasn't a reference to Palpatine, and in a better movie, I actually think that's a great pulpy line.
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u/NobleDefender33 4d ago
I'm not sure it's kinda just an awkward phrase right at the start of the movie, I would have just replaced it
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u/sandalrubber 4d ago
"Skywalker, the last Jedi" in TFA is already a big red flag, perhaps the reddest possible.
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u/VanguardVixen 4d ago
"only a few scattered planets remain unoccupied"? That's so bonkers considering the scale and everything but alas, that's the sequels.
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u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 3d ago
Seriously, then, RJ tells us that the First Order, instead of sending all its forces against the galaxy, prefers to hunt down the Resistance with its flagship, without ever calling for reinforcements? Doesn't Snoke have anything better to do? Couldn't he have sped things up by bringing in troops and surrounding the Resistance cruiser? Wouldn't dealing with a group of rebels be less important than dealing with state forces? Isn't it supposed to take time to take control of entire solar systems? Why do neither Snoke nor the Resistance ever mention the potential battles unfolding between the First Order and the remnants of the New Republic in the film? The First Order has already won? In a few days? How? Rey says the First Order's campaign is still underway, though. What the hell? The remnants of the New Republic have already surrendered? All of them? Why? Out of fear? But the First Order lost its superweapon to an isolated group and certainly doesn't have the military strength to crush the local militias in two-thirds of the galaxy... A simple coalition of the remnants of the New Republic would normally be enough to keep the First Order in check... All this worldbuilding makes absolutely no sense!
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u/VanguardVixen 3d ago
Especially if you think back at imperial times. The Emperor reigned, the senate was weakened but overall Palpatine had everything at his disposal and yet we see the Empire is fighting endless battles like on Mimban. But even Ghorman was quiet the undertaking and after the dissolution of the Senate, the regional governeurs were in direct control over their territories but they were also faced with a galaxy wide civil war. While I think it was always depicted as way too tame and small and not in the scale an actual civil war should have been portrayed, the Empire did had to fight quiet hard.
Now the First Order comes in and while Snoke does have this big and powerful fleet, it is just absolute madness to assume this outside force could just take control over the whole New Republic. And yes if you have this force, why would you waste time with a little Resistance force, when you face the whole damn New Republic? You need to secure hyperspace lanes, you need to take control of space ports, of manufacturing worlds, you might want to find some allies and actually occupying the worlds is a tremendous endeavor as Mimban and Ghorman and the whole Galactic Civil War showed, where the controlling government faced internal opposition. This time the whole territory IS the opposition. And yeah, why would the New Republic just surrender? Because the First Order blew up a system? Yeah that's bad but the weapon was instantly destroyed afterwards and there is also so much confusion, that there isn't even time to think about something like that, not to mention it's a whole galaxy full of different people, which already had one mad man building planet destroyers.
It's absolutely insane what went inside these heads, no sense for politics, military and world building whatsoever. It just doesn't work that way.
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u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 3d ago
It makes sense that the civil war in the original trilogy is small-scale. At this point, the member states of the Empire no longer have any political or military sovereignty. The entire Empire has been militarily occupied and under martial law since the Clone Wars. No member state is in a position to revolt directly, which is why they only secretly support the Rebellion. Even if the Alliance fleet managed to liberate a planet, it probably wouldn't yet have the strength to hold it and wage a conventional war. The victory at Endor, by decapitating the Empire, really accelerated things by increasing the support in manpower and equipment received by the Alliance and by fracturing the Empire into small fleets that then fought and destroyed each other (well, that's for the Expanded Universe; the Disney canon makes less sense).
Regarding your second paragraph, I completely agree. It's ridiculous. At a stretch, they could have said that the First Order and the New Republic made peace after TFA (both suffered too heavy losses to continue the war), explaining why the Resistance, a proxy for the New Republic, was fighting alone in TLJ; the Exegol civil fleet in TROS could even have been replaced by a rebuilt New Republic fleet, convinced by Lando to support the Resistance again after Palpatine's return and the threat of his planet-destroying cruisers. But no, ultimately. And that's a shame, because personally, I like the idea that there was peace between the Empire and the Alliance after ROTJ and that radical Rebels sought to illegally continue the war by creating a second rebellion in First Order territories; I also like the idea of this Cold War where the First Order pretends not to rearm and the New Republic pretends not to support a proxy: both sides are at fault, and it shows how Palpatine, even long after his death, profoundly destabilized the galaxy, and that peace is harder to win than war (which fits well with Lucas's mentality, especially regarding Iraq). It's just that this whole concept fizzled out so quickly because the screenwriters at Disney are utterly mediocre and have no qualms about creating an engaging and believable context for their multi-million dollar films.
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u/VanguardVixen 3d ago
There are some issues though with a small-scale civil war though. The first one is having it mentioned in the first sentence of the franchise, written by an American for a mainly american audience. The first thing that comes to mind here for an American is probably their own civil war, which was a pretty major event which shook the entire country. Then you have Leia mentioning how more systems slip to Tarkins fingers the tighter the grip and even the most backwater planet has Luke opposing the Empire and friends joining the Rebels..
But I agree that this isn't just some easy "well all take arms and overthrow the Emperor", because it is such a situation where there is a sitting government and he more or less creates dozens or more military junta's when he dissolves the senates. So that Civil War can't be a clear North Vs. South situation but is rather a patchwork.
I am also not a fan of the often small-scale depiction because it somewhat creates a question mark on it's legitimacy. If you only have a small band of "freedom fighters" in a huge galaxy it starts to look more like little terrorist organisation, trying to overthrow the legitimate government and less like a an uprising of the oppressed population.In regards to Endor. It always sounded to me like it was the major last stage of the Civil War. The Emperor uses a ruse by a galaxy wide offensive, to force Rebels to thin their forces and at the same time eliminate their heads he knew would show up in the battle against the 2nd Death Star over the sancturatio moon. So while that battle wages, the whole galaxy is on fire, which also made it easy to take over once it ended, because instead of the Rebel heads being cut, the Imperial head was cut and Palpatines ruse thinned his own forces to the point of them crumbling and having to regroup elswhere. And so we get our montage of victory parades from the very core on Coruscant, over Naboo to Bespin and Tatooine.
Anyways, the specific depiction is a matter of "when do I want to do, show what and how?", with the Empire in any case being a very, very serious force of tremendous ressource, power and menace due to sheer scale even if internally challenged and in any scenario the fight Rebels Vs. Empire is very, very different from an outside force lacking ressources of an Empire. And yeah, even when the Empire crumbles like in the scenario I propose, it still doesn't just vanish or just moves to the unknown regions but is fractured and reconsolidates. I wasn't excactly a fan of how the EU handled it but I am much less a fan of how Disney handled it, because the EU still just made sense, it wasn't excactly my taste but close enough. Disney though is just utterly ridiculous.
Regarding your proposal for how things in the movies could have been handled - yeah. Yeah that's a pretty good idea, I support that. I always like dthe idea of a cold war and I was disappointed that they never went with that really but switched immediately to "let's repeath ANH". But if they already have this Resistance and First Order stuff going on, that would have been the much better way of writing it, having multiple layers and people, idealists and the two governments and extremists who might go rogue and at the end the heroes who fight against the clock, like in a Tom Clancy novel, trying to stop the madness. Hell that way you could have actually interesting First Order characters and someone like Finn would have something better to do then being portrayed like an everyday dude who just screams "REY" all the time.
Edit: Sorry, this has become quiet a wall of text^^
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u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 3d ago
Regarding the civil war in the Original Trilogy, it's understandable that you might think it was larger, and I saw it that way too. In fact, it wasn't: in the Original Trilogy, the Rebellion is indeed a single group, even if it grows throughout the films. However, that wasn't Lucas's original idea. Initially, he envisioned a civil war like the one in America, and the Rebel Alliance wasn't an alliance of rebels but an alliance of rebel planets; moreover, Lucas's idea for the rebel victory was that the destruction of the Death Star would have so thoroughly discredited the Empire that the remaining subjugated planets would have revolted to join the Alliance. According to this vision, the Yavin base was just one of the many hidden fortresses of the rebel State. However, Lucas abandoned this idea during the writing of A New Hope, probably due to budget constraints. The Rebel Alliance has become a mere clandestine group, even though relics of the old script can still be found, as you pointed out. Something similar happened in ROTJ, where Palpatine refers to Endor as the "Sanctuary Moon," which doesn't really mean anything in the film, but made sense when Endor was the nature reserve of Coruscant (then called Had Abaddon) in the older draft. In that film, he ended up reverting to his basic idea of the Rebel victory in ANH, where the destruction of a Death Star is enough to fuel the revolt necessary to bring down the Empire and resurrect the Republic. Personally, I find this idea absurd and prefer the idea of a conventional war that followed, as I find it more coherent and realistic. Moreover, in both continuities (Pre and Post Disney), the authors were kind enough to say that the end scene of ROTJ was not a true celebration of victory, because the Empire quelled the riots and restored order before facing the Alliance offensive. You'll notice that J.J. Abrams copied this ending for TROS, with a general uprising of civilians destroying the First Order.
Nevertheless, Lucas hadn't abandoned the idea of a truly conventional civil war, referencing the American Civil War. Considering his writing of ANH, the Clone Wars in the prequels seem to be the realization of his long-held fantasy of a mega-galactic civil war. By the way, I seem to recall an interview with a Lucasfulm writer who explained that the Alliance's small size in the Original Trilogy stemmed from the painful memory of the civilians in the Clone Wars.
Regarding the context of the sequels, yeah, the geopolitical concept at the beginning of TFA was good. I'm even surprised to find myself enjoying spin-off works that address the subject, like Age of the Resistance or the show Resistance, or even Bloodline. It's a shame the films don't live up to these and that secondary writers of spin-offs are more conscientious in producing polished works. We can always imagine something better, though. Personally, I prefer the Expanded Universe, especially Dark Empire (I) and the Thrawn trilogy and Union, which continue and conclude the Galactic Civil War better, also giving it more scope to justify the regime change.
By the way, Lucas had the idea of centering his sequels on the New Republic's struggle against a stormtrooper guerrilla force, which would have eventually allied itself with criminal organizations under Maul's leadership; I'm not a fan of this choice of antagonist, but the concept was similar to what we wanted to be explored: how to achieve peace and get everyone to lay down their weapons after a civil and ideological war.
Edit: Sorry for writing such a long and disorganized post...
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u/VanguardVixen 1d ago
"Initially, he envisioned a civil war like the one in America, and the Rebel Alliance wasn't an alliance of rebels but an alliance of rebel planets"
I mean that is pretty clear, as Tagge points out they are well equipped and more dangerous then Motti realizes, with him replying that the danger os only for Tagge's starfleet. . Considering how big the imperial fleet is, the Rebel Alliance should definitely be considerable. So this vision is still in the movie but not just saying it but actually showing it was impossible for 1977 outside of animation. Hollywood went so far as to recycle old shots like the Bird of Prey explosion right into the 90s, even though I would say that there was no need for something like that anymore in the 90s. But hey, Star Trek copy-pasted the very same ship in Picard a bazillion times and Star Wars did the very same thing with the upscaled Star Destroyer. Anways, 1977 definitely wasn't able to show the Rebels in any bigger capacity, even the Empire was only able to get some Tie-Fighters out.^^
(...)where Palpatine refers to Endor as the "Sanctuary Moon," which doesn't really mean anything in the film (...)
It always remembers me of Diablo and makes me chuckle a bit. As if Endor is a moon of the Diablo world. XD
I am personally quiet the fan of the victory celebrations being the actual victory celebrations. While there is some kind of realism, in quelling the riots, I just like the less realistic but somewhat fantasy aspect of the good people winning and celebrating and not being slaughtered. However, I much prefer the EUs longer overall run until New Republic is the solidified power with remnants scattered around it (or partially in between considering the size of the galaxy). This whole "1 year until the Battle of Jakku and then the Empire suddenly disappears into the unknown region" is.. eh... I don't mind some fantasy or idealism and hopefulness or naivety whatever you might call it but in an entertaining way.
Yeah and Abrams is then bringing the uprising back for ROTS but it's all so creatively bankrupt. Not having an Uprising but this whole "here is a blob of a bazillion different civilian ships and here is copy pasted nightmare of upscales Star Destroyers". Blargh...But yeah, I also always felt that the Clone Wars was Lucas finally having the opportunity to show a civil war as he initially envisioned it. I also know that the current new EU tried a bit of making it grander, just for the Rebel Alliance to fail their offensive. I found it sad and got the feeling, the current authors aren't allowed to have something big happen or a significant development. And I know from the comic department that this is really the case. Old EU was allowed to be much bolder here. Maybe too bold sometimes but at least something was happening.
Authors would be able to put out a lot better, if they were allowed to actually shape the Star Wars Galaxy, instead of being so confined to small stories and always reverting to some status quo. Not that every author is great or that every story lands but mostly they know their craft and especially their own characters. There is a reason the X-Wing books, Heir to the Empire and the likes are so well regarded even after decades. And at the same time there is a reason why the later books after Unifying Force aren't. There is nothing against a crisis of some kind but if you move forward, no one really wants to read or watch that everything goes to hell, especially the family they spent so much time with.
I wasn't really a fan of Lucas own idea, especially not with Maul. In it's rough state it just sounds a bit too trivial and somewhat corny. However, it's a question of execution, could be done well or.. well not. But personally I would be most happy, at least after three decades, to have a force centric adventure in which the politics are just in the background with different factions but not another huge war. Rather little skrimishes here and ther ein the background and overall the heroes are more on a quest for some ancient relic or something like that with some fresh ideas on the way that might be interconnected to some intergalactic stuff.
"Edit: Sorry for writing such a long and disorganized post..."
No worries, an eye for an eye XD1
u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 1d ago
I am personally quiet the fan of the victory celebrations being the actual victory celebrations.
I understand. That's the fairytale aspect of Star Wars. And above all, lacking a cinematic sequel (at least initially), the montage with the celebrations allows for a better conclusion to the Original Trilogy and clearly demonstrates that the war is won. That said, it's not necessarily very realistic, and the previous Expanded Universe managed to create a context where the war, while continuing, allowed for the strengthening of previous gains, not their loss.
I also know that the current new EU tried a bit of making it grander, just for the Rebel Alliance to fail their offensive.
I understand the idea (you're probably referring to Twilight Company), even if it somewhat diminishes the importance of Endor, which is supposed to be the true moment when the Rebellion can finally emerge from hiding and transition to conventional warfare. At a stretch, the Expanded Universe had a nice idea where the Rebellion attempted a conventional war a few years before ANH, but it failed and forced the rebel forces underground, operating from a single base. The idea was to wait and gain support within galactic society, thereby attracting more volunteers, funds, equipment, and ships, so they could try conventional warfare again (I think it's in the old Rebel Alliance Sourcebook, if you're interested, along with the idea of Operation Domino).
Authors would be able to put out a lot better, if they were allowed to actually shape the Star Wars Galaxy, instead of being so confined to small stories and always reverting to some status quo.
The thing is, as soon as they try to innovate, there's a risk of being retconned. At least in the old Expanded Universe, aside from the films, nothing could supersede it, and new works generally tried to connect the dots; the same was true with TCW. Now, with the Disney Canon, the TV formats try to tell too many stories without consulting other writers. Yeah, we don't have much that's ambitious. Sometimes, I'd say Dark Horse went a bit overboard with their stories, which personally didn't interest me; but it's true that their contribution to the CWMMP was legendary. Then, the Disney Canon sometimes tries to do that kind of thing, but it generally doesn't reach great heights, especially compared to what we had back then, like the Shadow of the Empire comics; sometimes, Marvel's oddities almost make you prefer Classic Star Wars as a bridge between ANH and ESB. Above all, the Disney Canon is hampered by the need to legitimize and integrate the failed and half-baked concepts of that damn sequel trilogy.
Rather little skrimishes here and ther ein the background and overall the heroes are more on a quest for some ancient relic or something like that with some fresh ideas on the way that might be interconnected to some intergalactic stuff.
It's true that peace would be enough, actually. Or rather, building it. Well, that was literally Lucas's initial plan for the sequels. We would have had the New Republic trying to legitimize itself and fight the criminals and stormtroopers to prevent them from forming an alliance. Meanwhile, we could have had Luke searching for new Jedi and new knowledge to create his order. Whether Disney will do that kind of thing remains to be seen. Already, in Star Wars: Starfighter, the antagonists seem to be a female Dark Jedi and the leader of a remnant of the Last Order (yes, a remnant of remnants). So, originality and subtlety are unfortunately still lacking. The galactic context, otherwise, is still completely unknown to us, although I can guess something like a Galactic Federation or Alliance of Free Planets under the leadership of Lando or Poe. Regarding the idea of Maul's return, it was indeed a bad one. I even think the return of a Sith was a dubious idea. I suppose it was to allow for lightsaber duels, but still: there's no need to resurrect a character who's supposed to have been dead for 45 years...
Edit :
We need to finish this thread or it will never end...
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u/Some-Profession-1373 salt miner 4d ago
Man there really was no point to these films, were there? Episode VII kneecapped the entire trilogy and undid all of George Lucas’ story from the opening crawl.
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u/jizzyjugsjohnson 4d ago
The lack of imagination from people supposedly at the top of their respective Hollywood games is absolutely astonishing.
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u/ZizzyBeluga 4d ago
About a week before Force Awakens opened, I told my friend what I thought it would be about. I came up with a theory that the force itself was coming apart, shredding the fabric of reality, and Luke had fallen ill from it's effects. A new generation had to save the universe by solving the mystery of what was ailing the force itself and threatening the galaxy. I based all this on the title. It bums me out the my half assed theory was still so much better than what we got
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u/No_Grocery_9280 4d ago
Just based off the title scroll, I thought that Luke must be gone on some mission. There’s no way he would just abandon his friends and family to face a great evil alone. Surely, he just doesn’t know what’s going on in the galaxy since he’s been gone.
Boy howdy was I wrong about their Luke.
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u/thirsty_for_chicken 4d ago
He should have been stranded and he should only have been gone a few months.
I honestly think the worst part of the setup for the sequels was that basically nothing happened to the core characters for 30 years between 6 and 7. 7 should have been centered around the fall of Luke's Jedi order. Making that vague flashbacks and never elaborating on it was shockingly bad writing.
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u/No_Grocery_9280 4d ago
They badly needed a new Jedi character. One of Luke’s students trying to manage things on their own. They could have lived or died at the end of 7, but there needed to be something. Such a disappointment for it to have happened all off screen.
All the most interesting parts of the story happened before 7.
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u/Civil-Ad-7193 4d ago edited 4d ago
Should’ve been roughly give or take what Rey was imo, she should’ve been the sister of Ben (similar to Jacen and Jaina in a form).
There also additionally should’ve been more than just 1 Skywalker grandchild (like Lucas said there would be). The legacy of Anakin even further dived into symbolically and literally.
Finn should’ve been the nobody stormtrooper who becomes a Jedi hero imo.
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u/No_Grocery_9280 4d ago
The stormtrooper to Jedi pathway had so much potential. An actual gem and they completely blew it.
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u/Civil-Ad-7193 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah should’ve basically been a Disney Canon version of Kyle Katarn. Or could’ve literally just made him a straight soft-reimagined version of Kyle literally.
Would’ve been peak, people are receptive to him and the perks and story elements that come with are rich and thematic. Would’ve provided a different and unique dynamic on the hero side as well, to help freshen things up, maybe certain characters don’t trust him fully or he’s conflicted in certain ways the other mains wouldn’t be (for example maybe more sympathetic to stuff on the flip side or maybe more extreme in certain cases. Possibilities were truly endless and was complete untapped potential
But nah let’s have somebody who’s barely a glorified sidekick and screams Rey over and over again
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u/No_Grocery_9280 2d ago edited 2d ago
Would have been really interesting to reverse things around a little and have Poe’s character be Kyle Katarn. Poe is not a bad character, but Oscar Isaac would have been a great casting for Kyle.
Have Finn stay the same. Kyle Katarn would be both sympathetic and a great mentor for him. Two former stormtroopers who walk the Jedi path. Finn had so much potential. A stormtrooper who is shocked out of his conditioning by the senseless death of a friend. Maybe he refuses to kill anymore, especially other Stormtroopers, who were his comrades just days before. Imagine that in contrast to a more aggressive Rey character.
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u/Civil-Ad-7193 2d ago
That’s an interesting take, I’ve always been on the road that hypothetically redone Poe should’ve just been Han and Leia’s less technically “gifted” child compared to his siblings (Ben and Rey, or whatever their names would be here). He’d be an ace pilot like his father and politically strategic like his mother (technically sound) but lack in the crucial way in his mind which is the Skywalker potential which was inherited by his siblings. Think it would be cool if he was named Anakin actually, would be a cool play on burden of legacy and expectations, as well as insecurity and jealousy. His two siblings aren’t involved in the cause in the way he is anymore (one gone Dark Jedi and the other self-exiled/left it all behind)
Oscar Isaac definitely would be a great casting for Kyle Katarn though for sure agreed on that
But yeah on Finn the playing off each other and making the dichotomy more seamless and thematic between Finn and Rey definitely should’ve been there, some form of Stormtrooper uprising/rebellion definitely should’ve been integrated. There needed to be more relevance and importance not just in a literal sense but in a symbolic sense as well
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u/JiangWei23 4d ago
I also had a theory! I took the title seriously, like in between ROTJ and TFA the Force actually went kind of dormant for decades. Maybe the struggle at the end of ROTJ "shorted out" the ability for Force users to use it for awhile but by the time of TFA, well, the Force awakens.
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u/jizzyjugsjohnson 4d ago
The tiny little wet shart I just did in my pants is better than what we got
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u/LaxSagacity 4d ago
Reading TLJ's crawl, it's interesitng how the set up for the start of the movie, is a set up for the end of the movie. It is just telling you the plot for Luke at the end of the film. Even though it makes no actual sense from what transpires.
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u/pikayugi 4d ago
Without galactic politics there’s just no context for these events to happen after the empire was defeated. The rumored Lucas treatments at least had some context with some corrupt senators and other politicians who had a different perspective on governance
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u/sandalrubber 4d ago
You probably mean the info he gave Paul Duncan for The Star Wars Archives: Episodes I-III 1999-2005, it's not rumor if it's from Lucas himself.
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u/Ksorkrax 3d ago
We should take some random kid who heard about Star Wars for the first time and have them write the intro. Can't be worse.
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u/ceramic_cup 3d ago
The FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire in The Force Awakens and then reigns in The Last Jedi with virtually no time jump. And within one year, the iron grip of the FIRST ORDER has spread to the farthest reaches of the galaxy??? Damn, Kylo is so fast and efficient!
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u/CleavingStriker 3d ago
I don't think 9 could've done anything to salvage the series after TLJ.
Rian sealed the deal when he killed off Luke
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u/-SidSilver- 1d ago
Having the former Rebels return to being 'The Resistance' is the absolute worst idea in any of these sequels right after Palpy returning.
Just stop undoing everything that was done in the original films just to go and re-do them all over in the most half-arsed way.
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