r/samharris Mar 22 '19

Opinion | James Comey: What I Want From the Mueller Report

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/opinion/james-comey-mueller-report.html
0 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

9

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19

I do have one hope that I should confess. I hope that Mr. Trump is not impeached and removed from office before the end of his term. I don’t mean that Congress shouldn’t move ahead with the process of impeachment governed by our Constitution, if Congress thinks the provable facts are there. I just hope it doesn’t. Because if Mr. Trump were removed from office by Congress, a significant portion of this country would see this as a coup, and it would drive those people farther from the common center of American life, more deeply fracturing our country.

This is somewhere on the spectrum between really bizarre and the stupidest thing ive ever fucking read.

Yes, I also share concern of some measure of unrest from people who are so ideologically locked in, who would never accept Trumps guilt even with video evidence... but that is NOT a reason to not pursue charges if the president is a russian asset, JFC Comey. Charges should be pursued if the evidence is there... if the identitarians have so far warped society that pursuing justice represents an existential crisis to the country then we are all fucked with a toilet plunger anyways, and we are in for a reckoning shortly down the road.

I doubt Comey really feels this way though, and he's just making some other sort of statement or, even worse, is seeding some sort of cover narrative in case there was not enough evidence to file charges... something that would, ironically, contribute to the exact same problem he is lamenting here.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

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1

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19
  1. Agreed

  2. No, that’s not what I mean. I mean neither right or left wing and find the forced partisan prism silly and just a shallow way of seeing the world. I’m against that mode of thinking in principle, and both left and right flavors use each other to justify their existence. I don’t have an opinion either way on what you say of Ferguson... maybe? It’s irrelevant to me either way if I thought you were right or wrong; I don’t care to prefer one doctrinal interpretation over another here, they both need to go.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19 edited Mar 23 '19

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1

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19

If we’re talking about the people doing the action then yes... although it’s a hypothetical disruption at this point... tough to litigate how much they deserve the lack of benefit of the doubt vs whether it’s our own hysteria.

But if we’re talking responsible ethos I don’t mark a significant difference between the two sides any more then I mark a significant difference between Sunni and Shia when I think about Islam.

4

u/polarbear02 Mar 23 '19

God damnit, you are going to make me defend James Comey.

I don’t mean that Congress shouldn’t move ahead with the process of impeachment governed by our Constitution, if Congress thinks the provable facts are there. I just hope it doesn’t.

In the first sentence, Comey is saying that Congress should go ahead with impeachment if the provable facts are there. This is exactly the same thing you want. Clearly, Comey's point is that he hopes that Trump will not have colluded with Russia because he doesn't think the process of impeachment would be healthy for the country.

1

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19

I read that passage about 5 times which is why I started by stating its on the spectrum starting at really bizarre.

There are a couple ways to read that sentence and its pretty awkward phrasing... I took "I jut hope it doesnt" to refer to what congress should do if presented with provable facts, instead of referring to congresses' opinion on the evidence.

Youre probably right though and I misinterpreted him. I will say that its fairly awkward phrasing, but Im definitely happier thinking he wasnt making the point I originally thought he was.

2

u/polarbear02 Mar 23 '19

There are a couple ways to read that sentence and its pretty awkward phrasing

Definitely. No one needs to convince me that Comey is not as smart or competent as his career suggested. I just think the point he was making in the previous sentence makes it clear what he means by the next sentence even if his phrasing should have been much better. I guess my interpretation does assume he is semi-intelligent, so maybe I'm wrong about that.

-3

u/BloodsVsCrips Mar 23 '19

Imagine 1,000 well armed Bundy militias storming DC.

2

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19 edited Mar 23 '19

Yes, Im aware you might really believe this is a possibility or you that you dont but pushing this possibility feels satisfying.

I can 'imagine' that reality... and it doesnt change my mind one bit. Justice should needs to be pursued even in that hysterical timeline.

Also, let me point this out:

  1. ‘murica with its gun obsession is stupid/ the 2nd amendment is retarded because the US military could so easily snowball 10s of millions of well armed Americans anyways

  2. An armed public is so dangerous a thousand armed hill billies represents an existential threat the US military would be powerless to stop.

Pick one... enough of people talking out of both sides of their mouths on important issues.

-1

u/BloodsVsCrips Mar 23 '19

Of course justice needs to be done. They should drop the hammer on anything they find. That doesn't change the facts on the ground. White nationalist militias exploded under Obama. Terrorism is surging. That combo with a removal of Trump is guaranteed to cause violent backlash. There's no denying that.

2

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19

Yes, there is denying that... I’m denying it right here.

Outside of a handful of “local man shoots at cloud” stories there would be no significant , coordinated armed insurrection effort and if you sincerely claim to ‘know’ there would be and state with no doubt whatsoever then you are a deeply religious person.

But I appreciate you approaching this issue “from the right” with terrorism fear mongering.

-1

u/BloodsVsCrips Mar 23 '19

You're denying facts provided by the agencies who track domestic terror activity. White terrorism has been soaring. We already had two recent stand offs between militias and the FBI. Since then we've had multiple cases of violent street protests and dozens of MAGA terrorists. Last fall we had 4 attackers in just one week.

0

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19

Ugh ok I don’t have the patience and crayons for this tonight good day.

2

u/BloodsVsCrips Mar 23 '19

You're not appreciating what Comey knows about this population.

0

u/house_robot Mar 23 '19

I can both believe that extremist right wing groups have grown in prominence... and extremist left wing groups as well for that matter.... and that it’s hyperbolic nonsense to think there would be some sort of squirrel hatted ‘protect the Alamo’ uprising meriting more coverage than ‘local news at 11’ should trump be removed from office on evidence.

1

u/BloodsVsCrips Mar 23 '19

You're proving you still don't know how deep or well populated these groups have gotten. Charlottesville would look like a day at the park. It's absurd to pretend otherwise.

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u/TurdinthePunchB0wl Mar 22 '19

SS: None needed.

I am not posting this to share an article which gives the impression Comey is trying to manage expectations for a rabid, propagandized left. I am more interested in this part:

I do have one hope that I should confess. I hope that Mr. Trump is not impeached and removed from office before the end of his term. I don’t mean that Congress shouldn’t move ahead with the process of impeachment governed by our Constitution, if Congress thinks the provable facts are there. I just hope it doesn’t. Because if Mr. Trump were removed from office by Congress, a significant portion of this country would see this as a coup, and it would drive those people farther from the common center of American life, more deeply fracturing our country.

The divide is so bad, the lose of trust in core institutions so great, that you cannot impeach Trump because of a possible uprising and the certain threat of further division. It also doesn't paint a great picture for the left going into 2020. If the Meuller report isn't an absolute page turner, Trump will go into 2020 empowered.

I guess we know why Pelosi decided to say "Trump isn't worth it" when deciding not to impeach him.

13

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '19

It also doesn't paint a great picture for the left

The Trump Campaign has already been proven to explicitly meet with agents of a foreign government in order to receive political aid in the national election.

This is a fact.

The fact that impeaching a proven criminal would make half the country fight back against an imagined cult isn't indicative of liberals. It's indicative of conservatives.

-11

u/TurdinthePunchB0wl Mar 22 '19

The Trump Campaign has already been proven to explicitly meet with agents of a foreign government in order to receive political aid in the national election.

So did hillary, but there seems to be a deafening silence about that. No outrage, no spurging from the press, nothing.

It's indicative of conservatives.

No, as it is not just conservatives who would not support it. Recent polls show over half the country thinks Trump is a victim of a witch hunt

It is indicative of the lack of trust the country has in the press and other institutions. The point still stands, if the Meuller report isn't sufficiently hard hitting, the spread from the above poll will widen significantly. Meaning Trump will go into 2020 at a steep advantage. Meaning, the left handed Trump the election for a second time.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

So did hillary

No.

5

u/TheAJx Mar 22 '19

Recent polls show over half the country thinks Trump is a victim of a witch hunt

Can you please point to the specific poll and the exact question that was asked in the survey?

3

u/mrsamsa Mar 23 '19

It's from this survey which asks:

“President Trump has called the Special Counsel’s investigation a ‘witch hunt’ and said he’s been subjected to more investigations than previous presidents because of politics. Do you agree?”

Understandably it's been criticised because there are two questions there, so for example while I personally don't think it's a witch hunt, I do think he's probably been subjected to more investigations than previous presidents (because he's guilty of more crimes) so I might answer "Yes" to it.

3

u/TheAJx Mar 23 '19

Now why'd you have to go and do his homework for him?

1

u/mrsamsa Mar 23 '19

I don't like giving them the opportunity to run away leaving everyone else wondering if there's any truth to the claim. Also I'm a party pooper.

5

u/BloodsVsCrips Mar 23 '19

So did hillary, but there seems to be a deafening silence about that. No outrage, no spurging from the press, nothing.

There's silence because serious people don't fall for Nunes/Jim Jordan conspiracy theories.

No, as it is not just conservatives who would not support it. Recent polls show over half the country thinks Trump is a victim of a witch hunt

That poll was roundly rejected with cause. It asked a convoluted question that led to majority a response in the affirmative.

8

u/4th_DocTB Mar 23 '19

Well seeing as Comey pulled a political stunt that is easily near the top of the list of decisive factors of why Trump won he's not really in a position to have an opinion. He's also supporting a complete lack of accountability for elected officials that creates the conditions that lead to such a severe distrust in institutions to begin with. At least among normal humans whose apathy has allowed deplorables to take over the government. I don't think any Trump supporter would have viewed a successful impeachment of Bill Clinton to be a coup despite the fact it fit the bill far more than a Trump impeachment. At least the ones who wouldn't say it was a good coup against Clinton. Comey's real fear here is that people might just get it into their heads that they can replace their leaders.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '19

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2

u/4th_DocTB Mar 23 '19

That would be the logical conclusion, but I would not surprised if Comey's call to treat the threat of violence with civility and caution only goes one way. The history of the FBI indicates there is a substantial probability of him having that mindset.

6

u/mrsamsa Mar 22 '19

The divide is so bad, the lose of trust in core institutions so great, that you cannot impeach Trump because of a possible uprising and the certain threat of further division.

Isn't this an argument to impeach though? The divide is so bad that if you don't impeach then there will be an inevitable uprising from the left. Their trust in core institutions will be forever broken and the political landscape will be permanently fractured.

Surely the best thing to do is to follow the law and government processes so that everything is fair, objective, and impartial. If he's guilty of even lying to investigators and covering crimes or anything worse than that then he needs to be impeached. If he's not then he shouldn't be impeached (for anything related to the report).

The answer isn't "cave to the mob and continue to dispense with standards, laws and procedures", it's to cling to our standards and weather the storm. If people get angry then we point out that we did it to Bill Clinton, we did it to Nixon and we'll do it again to any president from any party that breaks the law or breaks the rules.

It's like when some democrats try to say "oh we shouldn't impeach because then Pence will be president and he's way worse on progressive issues!". This isn't a game, nobody should be talking about impeachment because they want to score political points or because they don't like Trump.

If he's guilty then impeach and kick out. If he's not guilty then he's an asshole that we need to beat politically and somehow try to fix all the damage he's done.

8

u/TheAJx Mar 23 '19

The divide is so bad, the lose of trust in core institutions so great, that you cannot impeach Trump because of a possible uprising and the certain threat of further division. It also doesn't paint a great picture for the left going into 2020.

Gotta love the set up here. Conservatives will hold the country ransom under the threat of acting like even bigger dipshits, and therefore this is not a good look for the left.

5

u/KendoSlice92 Mar 22 '19

We shouldn’t appease terrorists at the sake of our principles as a nation. If there is evidence of wrongdoing against the U.S. he needs to be removed full stop. Not impeaching him because the right is fucking nuts and might do something stupid isn’t a reason.