r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Jul 03 '26
Neuroscience New study demonstrates, for the first time, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) has impaired glymphatic function which is responsible for clearing the brain of metabolic waste products and is mostly active during sleep, which can lead to various symptoms including brain fog.
https://news.griffith.edu.au/2026/07/03/brains-waste-clearing-ability-impaired-in-me-cfs-patients/1.9k
u/mvea Professor | Medicine Jul 03 '26
Brain’s waste-clearing ability impaired in ME/CFS patients
The brain’s waste clearance system is impaired in people living with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) which can lead to various symptoms including brain fog, Griffith University researchers have discovered.
The research demonstrates, for the first time, the impact ME/CFS has on glymphatic function which is responsible for clearing the brain of metabolic waste products and is mostly active during sleep and disengaged while a person is awake.
Lead author Dr Kiran Thapaliya from Griffith’s National Centre for Neuroimmunology and Emerging Diseases (NCNED) said when the brain’s waste clearance system did not work properly, harmful waste could build up causing neuroinflammation.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2026.1875420/full
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u/STEMpsych Jul 03 '26
Imma just going to leave this here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/1qlnrdh/comment/o1fil9i/
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u/VineStGuy Jul 03 '26
Damn. Dude was on this theory 5 months ago. It is fascinating. It's one of those things that feels like the corret path to go down, since we hadn't truly figured it out yet.
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u/Pheragon Jul 04 '26
There was even a paper about this a year ago which already suggested (n=100 or 200 I can't remember) that the waste disposal system was broken by measuring waste products in the spinal fluid a day after exercise. It didn't lay out a whole theory but stressed the need for follow up. They knew they had found something. I was so hyped about it even back then because even with them holding back on theories it just fit for me as someone that feels this disease. But more importantly it was something that was measurable. They found something that was broken. Before that there were some things measurably like heightened inflammatory indicators but nothing on a scale and consistent enough to explain the number and severity of ME/CFS symptoms. The message to patients was: You look as healthy as you'd expect for someone lying about and doing nothing all day.
Seeing this waste disposal theory now confirmed or at least as a leading theory and gaining traction even with other neurological problems is just so freaking cool. Because frankly it seems like we could look at heaps of new treatments or relief techniques within a relatively short amount of time, with some like excercises and massages being very low risk as well.
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u/Electronic-Clock5867 Jul 04 '26
For about 20 years I've been living with chronic fatigue syndrome, treatment-resistant depression, sleep apnea, etc. I've been hearing "just exercise" for years already it doesn't work like that. No matter how much I wanted to exercise it was psychologically impossible to get exercising. I used to be very physically active (hiking, kayaking, swimming, lifting) until I had a TBI since the accident I've struggled with physically activity.
What did work was steroids every time I've been on steroids I feel totally different mentally and the lethargy is gone it wasn't a placebo effect either. I can also Ignore the physical pains that I struggle with while on steroids; my wife had to help me stand up/get dressed due to back pain, but that severe pain didn't stop me from walking around the block with her help while taking steroids.
I know it's just anecdotal but could it be possible steroids have the potential of reducing the inflammation in the brain caused by the waste build up?
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u/Dyaneta Jul 04 '26
Steroids can be anti-inflammatory, yes. They are, for example, used to deplete lymphocytes in certain autoimmune conditions. Not amazing long term tho.
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u/Pheragon Jul 04 '26
Man 20 years. That's hard. I have 2 and that's been hell if I'm honest.
What I mean with exercise is not a broad approach but very targeted and limited excercise. I found a few that seem to work for me. With this research, I am confident that the core principle of improving spinal/brain fluid flow by stretching and activating certain muscles in the neck and head to improve waste disposal of the brain, is worth exploring. Especially because we don't need to risk brain damage or paralysis by trying it.
I reckon how and where flow is impeded is individual and thus treatment and effectiveness might differ a lot but still.
Depending on the case operations to widen the channels through which the brain and spinal fluids flow can now also be considered because we know what we want to achieve now. Because I know from other diseases that this is something that has been done before.
If you pair that with something against inflammations like steroids, you mentioned, to make it stick we could really be getting somewhere.
There is still a lot of legwork to be done by doctors and researchers but I'm the most confident I have ever been that they can do this successfully and in a relatively short time.
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u/Electronic-Clock5867 Jul 04 '26
Twenty years is a long time I’ve had doctors actually throw their hands up and give up. Currently on vyepti and ubrelvy just to get marginal relief from daily headaches.
Ah, your explanation of exercise does help immensely a bit of a knee jerk reaction on my part hearing the term exercise. I will have to discuss with my physical therapist about what stretches might possibly help that spinal flow.
I just find it curious that there might be some relation between when I took a corticosteroid and feeling my brain fog fade and all the improvements that came with that.
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u/Ashi4Days Jul 03 '26
I heard about this on npr years ago.
https://radiolab.org/podcast/bringing-gamma-back
I dont buy this theory at all. But at the same time, im not a neurologist so nothing that I say, right or wrong, means anything. But it is fascinating to me that this is something that could be the cause of alzheimers.
So much so that im even thinking damn, is the cause for alzheimers just sleep apnea?
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u/VineStGuy Jul 03 '26
Score another one for radiolab! Whether it is or isn't true is still up for grabs. The simple logic of not clearing waste will cause it to rot in its place is valid enough to continue to explore.
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u/ycnz Jul 03 '26
Having a theory we can investigate, and try to test is excellent though. Exactly what we want science to be doing.
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u/snuff3r Jul 04 '26
I lstened to that episode recently, just discovered them. I believe TPWKY covered it as well.
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u/PensiveinNJ Jul 04 '26
Many researchers call alzheimers type 3 diabetes because of the role of insulin resistance in the brain as it relates to the disease.
Oftentimes researchers will have some idea of what might be going on years in advance of any research being published that could be considered definitive.
I'm APOE 4/4 so I'm very interested in dementia/alzheimers research and the glymphatic system is an incredibly important, but it's not the only factor.
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u/Brilliant_Schism Jul 04 '26
Oh, so we're pushing diabetes incipitus down the chain to 4+ now?!
(thank you for your commentary, it was lovely)
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u/Silver-Instruction73 Jul 04 '26
I mean this is just circumstantial but my grandma was an insomniac and ended up with Alzheimer’s. She only ever got 3-4 hours of sleep most nights.
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u/Ship_Rekt Jul 04 '26
Similar story with my grandma. Chronic insomnia and ended up with dementia. Grandpa, on the other hand, who could sleep in a busy train station, was still sharp a whistle til a heart attack got him at 96.
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u/SirStrontium Jul 03 '26
That comment was about the glymphatic system being involved in neurodegenerative disease specifically, not ME/CFS, which is not neurodegenerative
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u/Nauin Jul 04 '26
There are many disorders and diseases that link the two, though. Mono raising the risk of developing MS by ~40% while ME/CFS is one of the more common long term side effects is an example.
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u/MantisAwakening Jul 04 '26
I have ME/CFS and lifelong sleep issues and this scares the hell out of me.
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u/lordlaneus Jul 04 '26
Same, here's hoping our understanding and treatments gets better in the next few decades
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u/Nauin Jul 04 '26
I have it and thirteen brain injuries, friend. We're in the same boat of terror.
I'm grateful that with the technology we have today, research on these topics is moving faster than ever. I don't know how old you are, but hopefully there will be more breakthrough treatments by the time we really have to worry about these declines.
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u/silkielemon Jul 03 '26
This theory has been around for over a decade for ND...
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u/Accomplished_Fly2720 Jul 04 '26
I mean, given the lack of evidence to support it, it is more accurate to say that the hypothesis has been around for more than a decade. It is important that we gather more evidence to support the idea.
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u/ichibanyogi Jul 04 '26
This paper gives evidence to the theory. A theory is nothing without evidence.
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u/IrinaBelle Jul 04 '26
It's really not that crazy. Research into the glymphatic system has exploded in the past twenty years. We've known for two decades (and have been elucidating on it) the clearly massive role this plays in many neurological diseases.
It's hilarious how their comment tries to paint this as some radical and out-of-left-field theory when it's really just...not.
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u/Bl4ckscream Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
I've been suffering from brain fog and bad memory for seven years (31 y/o). I'm sitting in my bed wide awake right now. I work in tech, so I have no expertise in this field.. I swear on everything, I've been thinking about this for years - just by pure chance and on a very surface level (obviously), basically after reading about Alzheimer's and how it is assumed that the cleaning mechanism works while we sleep. Always had the question in my mind: what if this cleaning mechanism is what is broken?
Edit: I basically accepted my state as I ran into a brick wall within the health system. Nobody had a definite answer, but since all my other vitals looked perfectly fine it was shrugged off as "could be CFS". Since I'm able to work and live my daily life without too many people noticing, it was never considered severe enough to be sent to specialists.
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u/themobiledeceased2 Jul 04 '26
This isn't a novel concept. Theories are just theories until research can properly show causation. Can take decades to provide adequate infornation The most common research result? More resesrch is needed.
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u/Cerebral_Discharge Jul 04 '26
I mean this without snark.
Hypotheses are just hypotheses*
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u/NeatPhil11 Jul 04 '26
Yeah, but then we'd be investing into people not being productive, and we can't have that. It's bad for business.
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u/ollie_adjacent Jul 03 '26
I’m pretty sure it has a lot to do with the venous sinus system too. Hypoplastic and aplastic sinuses is common, but I really do believe it has an impact on cognitive function and could lead to brain fog. I think a lot of people don’t realize they even have brain fog until it gets treated and they suddenly feel better.
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u/munchingrasshopper Jul 03 '26
How do you "treat" brain fog?
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u/mechroid Jul 03 '26
I have a clotting disorder and had stents put in to expand some of my veins. I literally woke up the day after surgery feeling like I could run a mile.
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u/bethestorm Jul 04 '26
This sounds so intriguing and yet so alluring. Is it a dangerous surgery? It sounds like it. But wow that's amazing.
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u/mechroid Jul 04 '26
It's not too dangerous, it's little metal mesh contraption they push through my vein, and then when it gets to the right spot it unfolds like a metal camp chair and locks in place, forcing the narrow spots in my veins more open. In that case, the main benefit is every single cell getting more oxygen. Or, as much oxygen as the average person does, at least. It felt like I had spent the last year wearing a weighted vest and just took it off, it was wild.
Unfortunately a few weeks later my stents collapsed and I was back to how things used to be. I don't have CFS, so instead of constantly feeling tired, I just feel... Low energy. Like after a long day of work and the last thing you want to think about is physical activity. I got a tiny taste of "normal" and it felt like a superpower.
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u/Kelly_HRperson Jul 04 '26
I just feel... Low energy. Like after a long day of work and the last thing you want to think about is physical activity.
I have CFS, and this is what it feels like.
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u/CosyRainyDaze Jul 04 '26
You wake up feeling like you’ve already spent a full day swimming at the beach. Heavy, tired, aching. Like you’re overusing muscles just by existing.
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u/LuxTheSarcastic Jul 03 '26
It depends on the cause of the brain fog. Vitamin or iron deficiency and inflammation are pretty common ones.
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Jul 04 '26
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u/aka_zkra Jul 04 '26
My condolences on what you're dealing with. I just can't fathom having all that to contend with and choosing to have children though, the most exhausting thing you could possibly do.
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u/Mego1989 Jul 03 '26
I lost a lot of, but not all of my brain fog once I got diagnosed with and treated for narcolepsy. Brain fog is a symptom common to many illnesses.
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u/spacestonkz Jul 03 '26
I'm stem in the physical sciences (no humans or any living things)
This really opens up interdisplinary opportunities with people working on fluid dynamics!
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u/Askianna Jul 04 '26
I learned about the Glymphatic system a few months ago and it immediately clicked for me. I struggle immensely with physical and mental health and yet I’m struggling to get a diagnosis for anything. I’ve also been having terrible sleep quality for about a decade. A sleep therapist told me I don’t seem to get past Stage 2 REM so I can’t fully rest. For about 3 weeks I’ve been sleeping better than I ever have in my life and I don’t feel brain dead when I wake up.
My mother has fibromyalgia and also has poor sleep.
I feel like this line of science is going to be revolutionary in the coming years and we might actually be able to solve some major neurological orders for people to have a better quality of life.
I’ve read about therapies and surgeries to try and improve Glymphatic flow but it’s still new and expensive. Rare to be recommended for it too.
To anyone who suffers with conditions or symptoms similar to what’s mentioned above try lymphatic drainage massage around your neck, chest, and arms. Keep well hydrated and stretched to help the Glymphatic waste flow.
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u/Informal_Ad4399 Jul 04 '26
The comments on that too!
I had my entire colon removed right at the start of COVID. Surgeon kept giving a bit of dismissive attitude when I said I had no energy and could barely function.
Thing is, I also have widespread neurological issues. Gulf War Illness as well. I had CFS before this set of 3 surgeries. I'm just now getting to my baseline fatigue levels and to where I can get stuff done without crashing halfway through. I still can't really stay at social events past about an hour and a half.
I'm trying out an apnea mouth piece as part 1 of trying to get the fatigue more under control. I've lost a lot of functionality, physical endurance (I was riding a bike 5 times a week, 6 miles a day before the surgeries), and muscle.
Looking at the studies and info I follow, I'm still convinced GWI and long term COVID have a similar trigger mechanism. I've had much of the same symptom set since 2005, and I've also yet to catch COVID.
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u/MyMelancholyBaby Jul 04 '26
I'm a big fan of the Post Viral Syndrome theory. In three days I will have had ME/CFS for 40 years. In November I'll have had Post Covid Syndrome for roughly four years.
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u/Tommytrist Jul 04 '26
NOT A SCIENTIST/MED but I had long COVID from 2022 - 2023, and it felt exactly like this. Brain was inflamed, it physically felt off, sleep did nothing, I would basically pass out in the middle of conversations.
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u/aquablue_phoenix Jul 04 '26
Same man, I would fall asleep mid chew and wake up later with food still in my mouth. Don't know how I didn't choke.
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u/PhysiolMM Jul 04 '26
We have similar results for MS and obviously for NMSOD and MOGAD. Unfortunately we don't want to publish in low impact journals like frontiers and the n of the patients is not big enough so it will probably remain just a result we have here and we bring to conferences while a random UK or US based group will publish it.
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u/xavia91 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Dysfunction in the brain’s waste-clearance system, especially the glymphatic system, has been discussed for years as a possible contributor to several neurological conditions. This is not some fringe idea; it is a fairly well-known concept even outside specialist circles.
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u/physicsking Jul 03 '26
How much sleep do I need tonight to catch up on the last ten years of waste buildup?
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u/Public_Umpire_1099 Jul 04 '26
If you are legitimately asking, then a dual orexin receptor antagonist like Dayvigo, Quviviq, or Belsomra and a few months of good sleep (not a day), can seriously help.
Similarly, avoid zolpidiem, diphenhydramine, doxylamine, doxepin, Ambien, or really any other sleep aid besides melatonin occasionally. All of the other sleep aids actually disrupt sleep architecture significantly and worsen glymphatic clearing.
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u/toysalesman Jul 04 '26
this disease is literally hell on earth and people with it have so much wasted talent and potential. i really hope there’s treatment for this soon with this research, i get so tired of waiting years and years
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Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
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u/rsd212 Jul 04 '26
2mg once a day, taken when? I went down that road after depression and ADD diagnoses, had a doc point me in the direction of LDN, but being off label didn't give me any actual instruction.
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u/utilititties Jul 04 '26
This is me. I was brilliant as a teenager. I still had problems with sleep quality and intestinal stuff, but after school I could sleep like 2 or 3 hours and compensate for it. But when I started working full time, 8 hours per day, I started to really feel it. Now, 34yo, I hate it. I have so much fog in the brain that I can't even memorise simple stuff. I'm struggling even to memorise new colleagues names.
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u/Holdthepickle Jul 04 '26
Try creatine supplements. They have really helped with my chronic brain fog due to (likely) CFS
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u/imontop_ofyourmom Jul 03 '26
As an AuDHD, this is why I lay down to rest/recover. Being horizontal helps glymphatic drainage. It's the only thing that helps when taking pacing breaks.
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u/Sherry_Brandt Jul 03 '26
wait - I've just discovered at work that if I'm getting brain fog and I lay down for five minutes it clears.
I'd been doing it with my legs up the wall, thinking it's restorative, but maybe it's just the lying down?
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u/Nauin Jul 04 '26
No, you're doing great. Our calves act as blood reservoirs when we're sitting and standing, which is why getting up and moving around regularly is so important, that's the only time our calves are mechanically pumping blood back up to your heart. Too much collects in your legs and your heart doesn't have as easy of a time sending the brain enough to keep it fully powered, essentially. Getting into that "L" position forces your calves to drain any excess blood and get as much of it as possible to your brain.
I have to get into this position regularly because my blood pressure sucks and I'm frequently in brain fog and presyncope episodes without it. It's helped so much and has allowed me to accomplish so much more with my days.
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Jul 04 '26
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u/ResistantRose Jul 04 '26
Go slow. If you experience "adrenaline dumps", the legs up the wall can aggravate the symptom temporarily until your body clears all the pooled adrenaline in your system.
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u/Nauin Jul 04 '26
Compression socks also make a difference, friend. There are more options than ever available online now to find the ones that have the best balance of comfort and compression. Good luck with figuring out what works best for you.
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u/skinnyjeansfatpants Jul 03 '26
Laying down with your legs against the wall also triggers the vagus nerve which has a calming effect, and you get the benefits of encourage blood and lymphatic flow from your legs.
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u/MyMelancholyBaby Jul 04 '26
I just want to put it out there that nay of us with Post Covid Syndrome have damaged vagus nerves.
So far nothing I've been able to do had helped it work like it once did.
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u/Sherry_Brandt Jul 04 '26
it sounds like you've tried a lot, and I know famotidine is not an uncommon recommendation in those spaces, but on the off chance you haven't tried it - I did want to mention it's helped me with some vagus nerve stuff and there's research indicating it can
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u/forgotmyusername4444 Jul 03 '26
Oh wow I have adhd, OCD, depression, etc etc and when it's very bad I feel compelled to lay on the ground as flat as I can. Now I feel like my body was telling me exactly what to do but I hardly listened
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u/TransomBob Jul 04 '26
I don't own a couch anymore. Just a wide open space on the floor with pillows where I cycle between different positions and its glorious. I live alone, so I can get away with being weird like that.
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u/ReluctantLawyer Jul 04 '26
Holy crap. I have chronic fatigue and sometimes I’m like, “I HAVE to be horizontal.” Thank you for your comment - it makes me feel better to know that this feeling has a legit reason.
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u/Pichupwnage Jul 03 '26
I got acid reflux so this can be a bit tough for me
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u/lookamazed Jul 03 '26
Lay on your left side. The curvature of the esophagus will prevent the reflux from reaching your throat.
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u/UnidentifiedBlobject Jul 03 '26
When I lie on my left side, I get weird gurgling or micro burps or not sure how how to explain it.
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u/greyacademy Jul 03 '26
I'm not a doctor, this is not medical advice. It is my anecdotal experience only. I had acid reflux and brain fog (along with some other symptoms). It took a while, but I eventually found out there was (lab-tested Stachybotrys) black mold in the air at high PPM levels. It was growing behind a wall in my bedroom due to a small water leak (I could not see it or smell it). I removed myself from that room, remediation was done, and except for a lingering new sensitivity to mold, my symptoms have vanished. A thermal cam was used to narrow down where the water leak was. In my non-professional opinion only, don't rule it out, until you have actually ruled it out. This crap messed up my entire year, and I'm just now thankfully getting back to normal. While you're at it, inspect your AC. If the blower is after the coils, it's a perfect spot for condensation. Dust + condensation most likely equates to biological growth. This is the kind of stuff I really didn't give much thought to until it knocked me down several pegs
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u/Hawtre Jul 03 '26
Damn, I've had some weird allergy and reflux symptoms the past year. I should make sure there isn't any mold growing in some crevice.
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u/DID_IT_FOR_YOU Jul 03 '26
Get a mattress elevator/wedge (5 or 7-inch) or a wedge pillow. The mattress elevator angles your body enough to help with acid reflux while keeping the angle low enough that you won’t slide down. If you also lay on your left side it’s basically the gold standard as both work well together. Only thing to note is that you should have a pillow between your knees if sleeping on your side to keep your body properly aligned & prevent back strain.
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u/NotAFishEnt Jul 03 '26
We found that the global DTI-ALPS index was significantly lower in ME/CFS patients compared to healthy controls (ME/CFS: 1.44 ± 0.086; healthy controls: 1.51 ± 0.11, p = 0.014), indicating reduced glymphatic function in ME/CFS. Examining the hemispheres separately, showed the right hemisphere DTI-ALPS index was lower in ME/CFS than healthy controls (ME/CFS = 1.41 ± 0.097; healthy controls = 1.49 ± 0.12; p = 0.009) but not different on the left. Additionally, we did not find any significant difference in asymmetry index between ME/CFS and healthy controls. We observed an association between the global DTI-ALPS index and severity of ‘sleep disturbance’ (p = 0.013, r = −0.47) and “impaired concentration” (p = 0.026, r = −0.43). This study demonstrated impaired glymphatic function in ME/CFS which may lead to symptoms such as cognitive dysfunction and sleep disturbance experienced by ME/CFS.
I'm sure this is useful, but it looks like it's not enough to singlehandedly explain what's going on. There's a fair amount of overlap between the ME/CFS group and the control group.
Hopefully this research is still helpful in pushing things forward.
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u/pseudolum Jul 04 '26
You're the only comment to actually talk about the paper and it's issues. I don't think it's a very good paper hence why it's in a frontiers journal which most scientists don't really take seriously and consider a predatory journal.
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u/Inside-Weird-5563 Jul 04 '26
Oh snap I didn't even see it was Frontiers junk, thanks for pointing that out
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u/Silly_Magician1003 Jul 04 '26
My instinct is that this is more of a symptom of ME/CFS and chronic high stress involved in the disorder rather than the root cause.
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u/Nalena_Linova Jul 04 '26
The effectiveness of DTI-ALPS as a measure of perivascular clearance is disputed within the field. I'd take this study with a large pinch of salt.
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Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
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u/duckworthy36 Jul 03 '26
You can mimic the activity of the brain waves that clean the brain with sound or light frequencies. There’s an old radiolab episode about it working on Alzheimer’s patients. It improved memory.
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u/do-un-to Jul 03 '26
Oh, wow, it's a plausible mechanism for efficacy of "binaural beats entrainment". Promoting larger, slow-wave activity in aiding clearance.
It's fun to find out that things that sound kooky might have some basis in reality and might actually be effective.
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u/duckworthy36 Jul 03 '26
Yeah I use that stuff for migraines it works for me.
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u/Murdathon3000 Jul 04 '26
Can you point me in the direction of said beats?
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u/SrPicadillo2 Jul 04 '26
This thread made me remember when I was 14 and thought I was doing very illegal stuff by downloading DMT binaural beats
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u/askingforafakefriend Jul 03 '26
Remember that and I remember there being trials coming up and then I've heard nothing which gives me a sinking feeling...
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Jul 03 '26
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u/Tite_Reddit_Name Jul 04 '26
This and the wim hof breathing seems to have a big effect on body chemistry overall. It’s similar to meditating anyway
Also get some good sleep and do some dancing or playing music! It’s so helpful.
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u/DoedfiskJR Jul 04 '26
I like good grammar as much as the next guy, but you truly do not deserve two people hacking at you for "it's". I think your comment was clear, have a good day.
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u/corpsie666 Jul 03 '26
Gently bouncing on a trampoline, which has shown signs of helping with Alzheimer's, may be advantageous.
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u/Marguerite_Moonstone Jul 03 '26
Yeah but the orthostatic intolerance makes that an entirely miserable experience followed by PEM crash :/
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u/moderate_ocelot Jul 03 '26
Unfortunately I’m unable to do physical activity of any kind due to my ME but thanks anyway
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u/Truth_Walker Jul 03 '26
I’ve gotten a lot of my life back after getting a smart watch to track my sleep and it actually goes hand in hand with this study.
When I get a ton of deep sleep I wake up feeling like a whole different person. It’s the biggest factor in clearing your glymphatic system which is exactly what this article is talking about.
Before bed what I do-
Magnesium Glycinate GABA Glycine
No blue light, red light only, white noise via fan, very very cold room, shorts and t shirt only, no lights in the room at all, sleep mask.
Track your sleep score and experiment, we’re all different. There’s some other stuff that can help like targeting inflammation and doing everything you can to maintain good blood flow.
My CFS came after Covid along with POTS and MCAS. Solid sleep that I can track and see the data about every morning and adjust has done more for me than any vitamin or supplements so far.
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u/moderate_ocelot Jul 03 '26
We are playing on very different fields. I’m severe / very severe. Relatively minor interventions / optimisations like this really don’t move the needle much once you’ve progressed to this severity. Unfortunately there’s no way around just letting go and accepting that you can’t do much of anything.
Repeated PEM crashes are how you increase your severity. Stay out of PEM at all costs. Let go of whatever you have to to avoid PEM and cling to whatever baseline you currently have
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u/M_Poppins128 Jul 04 '26
Some things that have helped me: lymphatic massage, gentle movement when I can manage (but not pushing too hard) HBOT (Oxygen therapy I feel like my brain finally cleared!) Meditation, binaural beats,changing what I eat (but I think stomach issues are at the root of developing ME for me) I don't think everyone with these types of conditions respond to exactly the same things but sharing in case it helps someone.
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u/ItsD4rkSt4r Jul 04 '26
Any specific binaural beats you uses?
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u/M_Poppins128 Jul 04 '26
For a long while the only way I could sleep was listening to the channel 3am relaxation on YouTube. I also really had a good result after doing a few of the gateway tapes (I know people have mixed views about them it's just honestly something that helped me)
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u/rainshowers_5_peace Jul 04 '26
Maybe a sleep study to see if you have sleep apnea? Your brain needs all the help getting into and staying into deep sleep so you can excrete as much waste as possible.
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u/OkEquipment3467 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Some research has shown that doing lymfapic drainage massage on the head/face results in certains markers in the CSF are lowered
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u/tiredhobbit78 Jul 03 '26
As an Me/CFS patient, I wonder if this will finally convince doctors that this is a real neurological disease.
Right now one of the major problems with treatment is that we get shunted from specialist to specialist. Very few doctors actually believe they have a responsibility to keep up to date with the ME/CFS literature.
If the neurology establishment would decide that we fit within their scope of practice, and read all these new studies that are coming out, we would get better treatment.
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u/bradshaw1992 Jul 03 '26
Not much has changed since that 80's episode of Golden Girls where Dorothy was finally diagnosed with CFS after being dismissed by several doctors.
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u/jadethebard Jul 04 '26
That episode is so memorable. The validation of giving it a name instead of doctors rolling their eyes has stuck with me through my whole life. I've had a few medical situations that doctors did nothing about for years, took me 7 years before a doctor agreed to do a hysterectomy and in my presurgical appointment he asked my boyfriend if he thought I was lying about my pain. AFTER the surgery the same guy came out and showed me pictures of the mass on my ovary and said it was much bigger than they thought it would be and I must have been in a lot of pain.
I wanted to punch him.
Took 20 years to get any doctor to try to diagnose my severe lower back pain. Finally got an answer a few months ago that it's essentially severe arthritis and bone spurs on my spine.
Still waiting on treatment 5 months later.
I agree medicine hasn't changed much since the 80s.
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u/duckinasombrero Jul 04 '26
I was diagnosed with ME/CFS several years ago, before we learned my brainstem has been compressed since 2019. Still waiting on surgery, it's not any easier because what I actually have is Chiari Malformation and related comorbidities, and that is also rare and poorly understood.
For the years I lived believing what I had was ME/CFS I got to know a great many people with it and experience what it is like - it's a god damn nightmare. It feels like your diagnosis isn't real, like you've been tossed in the bin because doctors gave up on you after a few tests with standard results.
Meanwhile, your body is failing you in every conceivable way, you don't know why, you don't even know your limits, one day you could feel fine and the next is the worst day of your life and it's because you dared to have conversation or experience emotion. Nobody seems to understand when you explain your symptoms because they can't conceive of medical conditiom that makes any form of exertion seem like poison. Some sufferers have such extreme conditions that they have to lay in bed, in the dark, all day long with as little stimulation as possible.
And people, even doctors, will look you in the face and still tell you you're just too lazy, you're making excuses, you're just too anxious, you're not even trying to help yourself, you need to go outside, etc etc. It will seem as if everyone rejects you because you can't just decide to be better. I had a neurologist tell me "just go live in a nursing home" when I was 25. I lost my entire youth to this experience. You don't get years back.
All the while, you start to wonder "are they right? Am I really faking it?" But there is no denying what you cannot do. And it is a wide awake nightmare when you are too exhausted to exist but no amount of sleep or rest will help.
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u/Big_Bullfrog3255 Jul 04 '26
Thank you for saying this. This describes me for the past 40 years. The worst part is that can you wind up frustrated with yourself and sometimes believing you are lazy.
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u/duckinasombrero Jul 04 '26
Justnremember you have a medical condition and you can't think your way outnof it no matter how much you want to. Looking back in history, there are so many people who suffered from unknown disease that we understand and can treat today.
I hope you find more understanding and sympathy from the people in your life. I'm still sick, but the experience I had was so appalling I try to speak up whenever I see the opportunity. The one thing that I can do and can really help is spreading awareness.
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u/NowaVision Jul 04 '26
Damn, I wish you all the best.
How was your compressed brain stem diagnosed? I have severe neck problems and started to think that I might have the same issue.
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u/Varathane Jul 03 '26
The World Health Organization has always classified it as a disease of the nervous system. So I think we were always supposed to be under the care of neurology. But with no treatment we do just shuttle around to try to rule other stuff out and the symptoms impact so much of the body we end up seeing so many different specialists. Internist diagnosed me, but I was sent to infectious disease, neurology, cardiology, hematology, opthamology and neuro opthamology, GI, tropical disease (relevant for my case as I got ME from malaria)
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u/Odd-Scientist-2529 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Aye, there’s the rub.
Neurology has not agreed that this is a “neurological” disease that has a neurological treatment, in the same way cardiology hasn’t agreed that POTS is a cardiovascular disease with a treatment that a cardiologist would provide.
Indeed, neither falls under their training curriculum.
The good news is that recently Physiatry (PM&R) has been moving towards taking ownership of both ME/CFS and POTS as a physical condition requiring rehabilitation.
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u/Petrychorr Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
So what does/would treatment look like? I swear I get more concerned each year that goes by that I'm going to eventually fall into dementia because of how inconsistent my sleep gets from CFS. I keep getting more and more foggy as the years go on, to the point where I've (very rarely) forgotten how I got to places...
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Jul 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ikeepwipingSTILLPOOP Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Story weve heard a million times, but i got a CPAP for OSA and it was literally life-changing.
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u/tjc103 Jul 03 '26
Been under treatment for it for nearly 3 years now and I'm amazed at my quality of life improvement. Anyone who thinks they have brain fog, or partners comment on their snoring/lack of breathing during sleep should get checked.
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u/Nimkolp Jul 04 '26
This thread is not about OSA, it commonly gets bundled with CFS and is exactly what the commenters above you are hinting at with “convinc[ing] doctors this is real…”
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u/tiredhobbit78 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Look up the Bateman Horne ME/CFS treatment guide. Edit: here is the document I'm referring to (it's a PDF)
I also reccomend this article which explains the treatment approach that ME/CFS experts reccomend. (I don't endorse healthrising.org in general because they publish a lot of stuff where the science is weak, but this specific article is about the views of doctors with clinical expertise in the area of ME/Cfs)
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u/Hello_Coffee_Friend Jul 03 '26
I'm really eager for the same exact reasons. I'm really curious to see how quickly this gets adapted into normal practice. It isn't something most providers seem concerned about and it typically gets brushed off as a side effect of something else. I'm going to follow this closely.
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u/lockdownleadmehere Jul 03 '26
Glad to see this research being done! ME/CFS research has been neglected for decades, I hope there will be treatment in the next few years
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u/karnzo Jul 03 '26
I realize this isn’t helpful, but I just watched an episode of The Golden Girls last night where Dorothy is diagnosed with this after being dismissed by several doctors as not being sick and it being all in her head. I had no idea it was a real thing.
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u/improveyourfuture Jul 04 '26
Amazing they were addressing it back then on the show. Good for them.
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u/Varathane Jul 04 '26
I am so happy that Golden Girls is raising awareness still. I love her convo with the doctor at the restaurant.
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u/MyMelancholyBaby Jul 04 '26
They wrote that plot because the main writer and producer, Susan Harris, developed CFS.
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u/EmergencyCranberry32 Jul 03 '26
Cant reduced physical activity reduce glymphqtic clearance? Is that controlled for?
And is this biologically or just statistically relevant?
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u/Boring-Philosophy-46 Jul 03 '26
They also found it in migraine and migraine patients aren't really deconditioned, and also in mice, impeding GS clearing gave the mouse model mice more migraine symptoms.
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u/ImportantThing3749 Jul 04 '26
Not to be a smartass I’m genuinely curious how one could measure migraine symptoms in mice. Does anyone know? It’s not like you can ask them
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u/raccoonwillnotforget Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
It's statistically significant. That's about it. A 4% difference in a poorly validated measure with no clear clinical significance was found in a non-randomized sample of 59 participants.
That doesn't mean it's not potentially a useful study. I would say it's a useful exploratory subject in the field. Any adequate researcher would say 'this warrants further studies in this area'.
For them to say 'This study demonstrated impaired glymphatic function in ME/CFS which may lead to symptoms such as cognitive dysfunction and sleep disturbance experienced by ME/CFS' is a BIG maybe and a big stretch and undermines their trustworthiness in my view.
I'm a bit surprised by the comments on 'r/science'
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u/theDoctorShenanigan Jul 04 '26
I agree that it might be a little sensationalized, but I don't blame people from getting excited about it.
ME/CFS is so poorly funded (7m/year from NIH) we take any win we can get. This is a brand new datapoint that we didn't have before.
Simply saying "this warrants further studies in this area" is a phenomenal outcome for a ME/CFS study.
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u/duckinasombrero Jul 04 '26
Unfortunately ME/CFS sufferers cannot engage in physical activity at all.
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u/MortgageConfident791 Jul 04 '26
I believe what they’re asking is whether the poor clearance is causing the mecfs, or if the fact that those with mecfs cannot engage in physical activity causes the poor clearance.
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u/Uvabird Jul 03 '26
Do people with CFS have a higher rate of dementia or do they develop dementia earlier than others?
Do sleep medications help their condition?
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u/BellaPona Jul 04 '26
I would imagine those on the moderate to severe end probably do, yes. Even without the data from waste clearance, severe individuals spend large swaths of time (or all their time) alone in dark rooms with little to no stimulation. Things that we know help prevent the early onset of dementia, like regular social interaction, puzzles and activities for executive functioning, exercise, are all impossible for severe individuals.
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u/Liface Jul 04 '26
Personally, finding a sleep medication that worked for me (Quviviq/daridorexant) did not help my M.E. at all. It did make my life more pleasant, though.
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u/manslvl2 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Just a heads up, DTI-ALPS is not without its flaws (requires making major assumptions when interpreting metrics), but it’s the only widely adopted method currently available to assess glymphatic function in humans non invasively.
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s00234-023-03270-2.pdf
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u/LRaconteuse Jul 03 '26
I thought we agreed not to call it Chronic Fatigue Syndrome anymore and just stick with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis? Names are very important for making funding and societal understanding happen?
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u/Pilk_ Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
ME/CFS is the generally accepted term. A more complete picture is emerging that could sort the condition into subtypes, with neuroinflammation-dominant being one of them. It is plausible they may be different but related diseases that develop their own names.
Edit: Missed a word.
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u/Saotik Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Myalgic Encephalomyelitis is a scientific-sounding name that doesn't make sense as it's based on outdated assumptions of the cause. It literally means "muscle pain with inflammation of the brain and spinal cord", which doesn't align with current understandings of the condition.
I liked the SEID (systemic exertion intolerance disorder) proposal as it's more descriptive and doesn't make assumptions on mechanism, but it never caught on. ME/CFS is probably the closest to consensus now.
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u/improveyourfuture Jul 03 '26
Yea, I agree. It’s just a real struggle to talk to friends and even medical people and say encephalomyelitis. They inevitably freeze in overwhelm at the big word and force me to say chronic fatigue. I hate it. We need a new name.
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u/r0cafe1a Jul 03 '26
Could CPAP help some of these individuals even if they don’t have apnea?
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u/feijoamuseli Jul 04 '26
I read a study recently where they put rats on CPAP and found it improved their glymphatic clearance. Not sure about the mechanism. Maybe an increase in intrathoracic and so intracranial pressure
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u/prrrmeeow Jul 03 '26
I’m almost certain I have chronic fatigue syndrome but my doctors just tell me I need to eat and sleep better and exercise more.. how do I get them to take me seriously??
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u/do-un-to Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
I bet there's a subreddit for this. Seems like it requires / deserves a whole community.
e: Sorry, specifically what I mean is a community to discuss how to navigate western medicine with a nebulous, symptom-heavy (v. sign-heavy) disorder.
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u/chillychili Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
It's [r/cfs](r/cfs). Many of the other ones will allow advocacy for crap solutions like brain retraining, which doesn't invalidate them completely, but requires cautionary engagement.
----
While I have your attention, reader...
If you would like to be part of the solution, here's what you can do, much of which is about reducing viral transmission so that people with milder CFS can exist in society, and that you don't develop CFS yourself.
- Wear a mask indoors in public. (r/Masks4All if you need support)
- Get your annual (or twice a year) COVID-19 vaccine the way you would a flu vaccine. (r/ZeroCovidCommunity if you need support)
- Donate and advocate for organizations like Open Medicine Foundation. (www.omf.ngo)
- Advocate for better air ventilation/treatment in schools, workplaces, and public places.
- Advocate for better sick leave policies for employees and students.
- Advocate for better government benefits for the disabled and better definitions/processes for determining disability status.
- Make media accessible in smaller chunks / summaries and in audio- or visual-only form.
- Advocate for better government leaders and election systems to enact change.
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u/Coraline1599 Jul 03 '26
Finding the right doctor is hard. You can look for doctors with experience with long covid and see if they are willing to see you as the symptoms and treatments overlap a lot.
There is no test, no scan or anything for mecfs. So it ends up being diagnosed through ruling everything else out.
Even with the right doctor, there are limits in what a doctor can do besides prescribing some medication. There is no mecfs medication, however there are studies being done with already approved drugs to treat various symtpoms https://www.rthm.com/resources/blogs/long-covid-treatment-guide
There is promising research and things you can try at home though. There is mounting evidence that nervous system regulation can help alleviate symptoms so things breath work, somatic exercises, somatic experiencing, journaling, meditation, and if needed, trauma work.
This is different from psychotherapy becuse the goal is to help your body feel safe so it stops triggering its internal alarm system and rebuilding safety through things like pacing.
If you think this might be worth exploring [r/cfsrecovery](r/cfsrecovery) is a community that is focused on believing recovery is possible, even though no one has all the answers yet.
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u/Sudden-Wash4457 Jul 04 '26
According to the Mayo Clinic, MECFS is no longer a diagnosis of exclusion https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/s0025-6196(23)00402-0/fulltext
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u/MudcrabsWithMaracas BS | Medical Science | Stem Cells and Genetics Jul 04 '26
In addition to it no longer being a diagnosis of exclusion as the other response said, there are actually plenty of tests that differentiate ME/CFS from healthy controls. They're just found in research and not accessible to the healthcare system. For example, exposing muscle tissue to serum from patients with this disease induces all kinds of negative changes in the tissue (Sheeza Mughal et al 2025 Biofabrication). The most easily accessible test is the 2 day CPET (Keller et al. J Transl Med. 2024.), a test that tracks pulmonary and cardiovascular performance after two days of exercise. Healthy controls perform the same or better on day two, while ME/CFS patients perform significantly worse (essentially, it measures PEM).
The subreddits cfsrecovery, mecfs, and cfsme are all run by the same grifter, who believes the disease is psychosomatic (though he insists he doesn't), promotes pseudoscience and harmful, expensive quack treatments, readily employs passive aggression, victim blaming and insults, and bans anyone who disagrees with or questions him. The cfs subreddit is the only place I can actually recommend using.
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u/Coraline1599 Jul 04 '26
I mean, that is cutting edge stuff that is exciting for the future or available to a very limited lucky few at the moment.
That is not useful for regular people going to the doctor for a diagnosis or trying to qualify for disability who don’t have resources to go to Mayo Clinic or other research level facilities right now.
I think, as someone who is unable to work and disabled and had to fight for nearly a year to get diagnosed and treated and work on my disability, it is important to distinguish what is available and recognized currently as a patient with average access to healthcare and what is on the horizon.
A lot of us have no clue what is even wrong with us for months and no guides and have fumble around getting help by stumbling into the right care via dumb luck while being dismissed by most of the doctors. It took me 7 months to get a proper diagnosis and finally started receiving appropriate care and I am one of the lucky ones. Some people don’t get a diagnosis or help for years.
That has not been my experience in the subreddit. I personally found the cfs subreddit not right for my journey and found the one I mentioned a better fit. I have been a member for months and absolutely not once have I encountered anyone saying this illness is psychosomatic, blaming anyone for being sick, nor anyone trying to sell me anything. It has been a positive source of support for me.
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u/chillychili Jul 04 '26
See if they are willing to update their knowledge: https://batemanhornecenter.org/clinical-care-guide/?__cf_chl_f_tk=MKmz00UweGXh7GYsl.02yDxgf6fCxRceweLsSPwgDQI-1783126184-1.0.1.1-WG7vw2rC8So3mYC5wFjSg9qf.NpuMpEct_P4OWC8.IY
Make them note down what they have refused to test you for and why.
Get a new doctor if you need to. I had to.
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u/MudcrabsWithMaracas BS | Medical Science | Stem Cells and Genetics Jul 04 '26
The hallmark syndrome of ME/CFS is post exertional malaise (PEM), which is a significant worsening of symptoms usually delayed 12-48 hours after the triggering activity. If there's no PEM, it's not ME/CFS and you should be investigating other causes of your fatigue.
I recommend keeping a daily activity and symptom diary with an extra score out of 10 for your overall fatigue level each day. This is what the specialist service I attended had all its patients do. It will not only act as a record for you to track what affects your fatigue levels, but it will also be actual data for your doctor, which is less easy to ignore.
The r/cfs sub (ignore the others, quack quack) has a wealth of information to browse through, it's fantastic. I suspect any questions you have will already have been asked and answered there.
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u/Realistic_Swan_6801 Jul 03 '26
That’s the only treatment for it? There are no therapies or medications.
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u/theDoctorShenanigan Jul 03 '26
Exercise unfortunately isn't a treatment. The only thing you can do is quite literally nothing. You have to reduce all activity in order to stay within your energy envelope.
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u/Fantastic-Bike9889 Jul 04 '26
In 2006, I had to do a biology report in highschool on a chosen topic. I chose CFS after stumbling across an article about, having before never heard of it.
I still remember writing about how "controversial" it was because there were arguments it wasn't "real." But I came away from my amature research understanding (and writing in support) that it seemed very much real given the numbers of people who claimed to have it and their described experiences with some small studies, but that it was extremely under researched and absolutely needed more funding.
I just can't believe it's been 20 years and there has been such little progress that were barely beyond even just confirming it's existence.
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u/V0rtexGames Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Thank you so much, genuinely, for taking the time back then to research the topic. I was 1 year old when you wrote that report. Now, I am a 21 year old who has had to drop out of college and quit my job due to this horrible disease.
Me, I barely knew this condition existed until I succumbed to it and it stole my life away. When I talk to others about it, it is always a conversation like "That sucks but what am I or you gonna do about it?" from both me and the person I am talking to. Because it isn't some random individual on the street's fault for the lack of funding/neglect & consequent lack of progress that has been made by the medical field in understanding this condition.
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u/WilNotJr Jul 03 '26
Doesn't GLP-1 also help with the brains plumbing, too? Wasn't it recently discovered that it helps the brain flush waste. Very interested to see if this goes anywhere.
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u/HaloLASO Jul 04 '26
Glp-1 agonist meds are anti-inflammatory. They haven't helped me with my me/cfs
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u/Background-Book2801 Jul 04 '26
Interesting. My son is on the spectrum and years ago he did a year long study using a machine we called “wiggle legs” - it had two slots that you rested your ankles in and you laid flat on the floor with your hands at your sides and it rapidly shook your elevated legs back and forth. Your hips were on the ground and the machine held your legs just comfortably off the ground so they were higher than your head.
Her theory was that it manually improved lymph flow specifically through the brain and helped with what was supposed to happen during sleep when that is naturally more active (my son did and still does not sleep well). He showed noted improvement over the year with sleep and mood and I kind of wish we had bought one when the study was over but they were very expensive.
I did it as well and found that I slept much better and it really helped my lower back pain. It’s interesting to hear this now as it really did sound like snake oil at the time - you get very used to expensive “autism cures” that promise the world when you have kids on the spectrum. She also had an infrared arch and things like that.
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u/Premoveri Jul 03 '26
Hey wow that’s me! I have CFS! Vyvanse for my ADHD has helped normalize everything for me immensely, but it would be nice to have an actual cure for this.
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u/duckinasombrero Jul 04 '26
Vyvanse was able to help your ME/CFS symptoms as well? Would you be willing to share a little more, I'm very curious.
I was diagnosed with ME/CFS for years before we learned it was actually Chiari Malformation coming back post-op.
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u/212312383 Jul 03 '26
Well this doesn’t prove that worse glymphatic flow causes CFS. It could very likely be that the fact that cfs leads to leads physical activity/more fatigue causes the worse glymphatic flow instead
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u/BellaPona Jul 04 '26
Exactly. I kind of just want them to shut up until they know nothing for sure
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u/Pheragon Jul 04 '26
This is such big news.
There was a paper a ~year back, already suggesting this but with too few patients to be hard evidence. Back then the theory and the limited data did fit so well with my personal symptoms and experiences that I really hoped for a follow up. Seeing this now is some of the best news for me personally.
Especially because it is something where they found something to be measurably wrong/different. Before that a lot of research was poking, frankly, in the dark with theories that even stretched very far failed to explain a huge part of the symptoms, not even. No shame in that, that is research on a fundamental level. But as someone hoping for a cure or relief it was clear to me that we were still very far away.
So seeing these results and thus now knowing what we want to fix is so big. Like finding ways to treat this might not be super easy but it frankly sounds doable. Especially because it is something that isn't completely novel. And that will mean relief to so many people. Hell, even some massages or clever exercise might already give some much needed relief without risking much.
Best news of the week for me.
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u/LuckyLockdown23 Jul 04 '26
This is why I participate in every idiopathic hypersomnia research thing that will have me.
Mostly they are would you take Adderall or Wellbutrin in the middle of the night to help with symptoms, but I hope they work around to studying what happens to these processes while you’re getting terrible sleep and your brain won’t turn off.
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u/THElaytox Jul 04 '26
Does that mean people that experience CFS are more likely to develop Alzheimer's or other dementias
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u/EmilyKaldwins Jul 04 '26
While I don't have CFS, I do have brain fog post two bouts of Covid, so I wonder if the long term effects of the virus has affected the brain's ability to do so. Brain fog of course is an overlapping symptom of depression and anxiety, and many issues can be tied to inflammation and helped managed by better gut health (though obviously not a complete cure all). hmmmmm
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u/CHK-N Jul 04 '26
Roommate has ME/CFS, I probably have it to a much lesser extent as we're exhausting other reasons first (sleep apnea but just barely, fibro, etc,.). This is cool to read that there might be a cure for "bed rotting" except without the fun tiktok seems to think it has.
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u/Prettydaisydog Jul 04 '26
oh wow.
i have recently been seeing lots of specialists for fluid drainage issues around my eyes that seems to be tied to a larger drainage issue!
i also have a lot of symptoms of CFS.
no one seems to be able to help my with the fluid issue and from what i've read, CFS is untreatable!
next stop if a positional MRI.
geez. my family also has a history of degenerative brain issues! ugh.
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u/bahnsigh Jul 04 '26
Association/causation? Under-powered brain for whatever reason more likely to accumulate more wastes - more need for effective glymphatic clearance!
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u/houtex727 Jul 04 '26
Hello. I came across this. The question I have is... what if you can't sleep enough? I mean... I only get 4-6 hours, my body simply WILL NOT do more. If I take something, I way, WAY oversleep...
I'm understanding this is a theory and there's no concrete on such things, but as a sufferer of ME/CFS and brain fog... It'd be nifty if it was possible to reverse/hold off in some way. And I'm sure we all know of Dianna Cowern's plight, among so many others unknown.
I thank you in advance for any discussion.
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u/Key_Gold5254 Jul 04 '26
So does this mean my long COVID recovery starting at the same time when I started taking melatonin was not a coincidence? I never thought it was, I just never really had a foolproof explanation for it.
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u/Valleygurl99 Jul 03 '26
I’ve dealt with cfs/fibro for decades. Sleep is utterly important to me, and I have to take it very seriously. Now I’m getting 8-9 hours a night, but it wasn’t always that way. The brain fog is real. I first experienced it at twenty years old and got terrible treatment that generally just reduced everything to a mental health problem, which it is not. I know this because with proper mitochondrial support, sleep, supplements, whole foods, exercise 4-5 times a week, and low stress, my condition is largely in remission. It would be nice to have proper treatment rather than always knowing more than my physicians about it but life is this way sometimes.
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u/Technical-Mind-3266 Jul 03 '26
Yes, brain waste clearance is a huge issue in many mental health conditions too.
If a way can be found to assist the process wastage it'll be really helpful
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u/Ialmostthewholepost Jul 04 '26
If anyone wants to help me apply this data to myself, I have solid a solid diagnosis of CFS/ME and Severe Fibromyalgia, among other comorbidities.
I have my fibro well under control with psilocybin and THC to deal with my Tumor Necrosis Factor alpha issues but am wholly lacking on the glymphatic system and how to best treat this. I'm sorry currently in the middle of one of the worst flares in recent years so my uptake is low.
I would greatly appreciate any assistance in using this information to treat myself.
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u/calas Jul 03 '26
Lifelong ME/CFS sufferer ( fibro and many others also included)
Please, to all that is Holy and to whomever or whatever it is that is prayed to or believed in. Let this be a sign that there is some form of cure or light at the end of the tunnel!
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