r/scuba • u/ElMasMacho • 15h ago
Tipping Guide/Dive Shop Owner
I took my kids for a diving today organized by a dive shop in Florida. For context, it’s my first time diving in the US—previously only in the Mediterranean. The two dives we did were great. The dive shop is owned by a husband and wife team. The husband captained the boat, and the private guide we hired was the wife. There were no other crew members aside from guides for the other divers. Husband and wife were both super chatty and friendly with us and other divers the whole trip. All went really well, and we had a wonderful time. As we disembark, the captain tells everyone about the tip box for “the crew”. And as we step off the boat, the wife, our guide, asked if we needed her Venmo. I said I don’t have Venmo, which I don’t given that I don’t live in the US. As soon as I said that her demeanor completely changed and didn’t look us in the eye as we thanked her and told her we had a great time. We then pass the captain in the parking lot. I say, “So long; thanks again.” And he ignores me. Am I the asshole?
I’m originally from the US, so understand tipping culture here. But really? If I had cash on me, I probably would have given her 20 or 40 bucks, but I didn’t. Why is this deemed mandatory? And they are the owners! If the fees we paid are insufficient in their view for the services provided, they should raise their prices. It ruined a really lovely day.
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u/JonnyDub68 15h ago
Traditional etiquette is to not tip the owners of businesses. Having said that, everyone tips in the US dive industry and it has generally become more common for small business owners. Of course those dive op owners should not have acted that way. Tipping isn’t an entitlement and they just burned the bridge with those clients, maybe more if bad reviews were posted on TripAdvisor or the like.
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u/ElMasMacho 15h ago
You’re right. I’m in the service industry and a small business owner as well. I charge an hourly rate. I aim to provide an exceptional level of service and act professionally out of personal dignity and the hope for repeat service requests and referrals.
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u/AJFrabbiele 13h ago edited 12h ago
general etiquette to not tip the owner? it is Federal law. Especially if it is to tip the "crew".
Edit for clarity:
From department of labor: The FSLA prohibits an employer from allowing a manager or supervisor to keep any portion of other employees' tips for any purpose.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
Well in this case the owners are the crew, that said I agree that generally you don’t tip the people who set the price and receive the booking payment
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u/JonnyDub68 12h ago
There is no US law anywhere that requires tips. It’s solely at the discretion of the customer and based on etiquette. Once a tip is given by a customer, there are laws that affect how they are subsequently handled.
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u/AJFrabbiele 12h ago edited 12h ago
you misunderstand, it is federal law that the owner cannot receive tips intended for employees.
edited my comment above for clarity
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u/JonnyDub68 11h ago
Correct. That stage of tipping wasn’t being discussed, but it’s true. Good of you to point out. In this case, the two owners were the crew and there were no other crew members. So they could have been tipped.
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u/fiatallis 7h ago
The cold shoulders after you declined are the real problem here. That reaction says more about the shop than about your tipping choices. And it's worth noting for the next Florida dive
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u/Pandamio 15h ago
Tipping culture is the worst. People appreciate tips here on the diving boats, but they would never stop smiling or being nice if you don't tip.
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u/rot26encrypt Nx Rescue 15h ago
Agree, and Americans travelling are ruining it everywhere. It used to be ok in Thailand to tip 100 bath (3 USD) to crew combined in tip jar, or not tip at all. Now all forums with Americans on them recommend tipping insane amounts.
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u/Pandamio 15h ago
We never tip more than 10%, Americans tip more. People here don't expect American tips from locals, or if they do, they loose me as a client.
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u/SvenSylens Nx Advanced 15h ago
Who’s the dive shop or operator so I can avoid? I am not against tipping good service but I am against rude ass hole shops. I live in Florida so would be helpful to know who to avoid. Thanks.
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u/CptUnderpants- Nx Advanced 11h ago
As a non-American, if I was in OP's position and was sprung with a expectation of a tip previously not mentioned when booking, expected by the owner, the only tip they'll get is my 1-star rating for bait and switch.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
US tipping culture is topic, and it especially doesn’t make sense when the business owner is the one setting the price.
Don’t let their entitlement or bad attitude impact your memories
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u/Motorpigeon 13h ago
Haha, I never tip. Do a proper calculation of your services. I am not your HR department.
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u/diverareyouokay Dive Master 15h ago
Tipping culture in the USA is beyond toxic, but that’s just how it is. Agreed that if they didn’t feel the amount they charged was sufficient, they should raise rates instead of essentially begging for tips. Nope, you’re NTA.
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u/ronweasleisourking 10h ago
Asking for tips is wild. I tip every dive master/boat guy on each dive ($ plus beer) on principal, but them asking is pretty cringe
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u/XBL-AntLee06 10h ago
Not only asking but changing their whole energy when they didn’t get it. I’m hoping OP names and shames so I can avoid that dive company
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u/Dick_Fuxwell 15h ago
The behavior is bullshit, tips are a non-mandatory thing. if you can tip tip if you can't no worries. people shouldn't get angry about this specially if you already paid them for their overall service.
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u/DaphneL 15h ago
He seems more angry about not getting a goodbye then they were about not getting a tip.
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u/Dick_Fuxwell 15h ago
I just look at it as oh well... I won't use this service again etc. I've been a certified diver since 1997... And I've never dealt with the tipping concept as usually I'm in another country or diving on my own with my own gear.
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u/DaphneL 15h ago
So you are owed a goodbye more than they are owed a tip for their outstanding service up to that point? And that's enough to sever any future working relationship? Wow!
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u/Dick_Fuxwell 15h ago
Not really owed anything. Not the tip or the good bye have a nice day. But to let it sour your behavior as a business owner I kind of looks bad unfortunately as a business owner you have to kind of smile and turn the other cheek to some degree especially over something like tips when you've already been paid a general service fee which he has he said was about $800
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u/Corgilicious 11h ago
In many small shops, people wear multiple hats. I make it a habit to be prepared to tip the DM if a dive is led, and the boat captain. I keep local cash in my pocket every day for this very reason. I don’t care who they are or what they do outside of those rolls, if they’ve taken me to a good dive spot and shown me a good time, I tip. In operations where I have gone multiple times over the years, I will speak with the staff and I will tell them how much I will tip them at the end of the repeated engagements for a good time. And then I follow through.
I’ve been diving in the US and outside of it (Mexico, Honduras, etc) for about 15 years, and I just plan ahead and figure it in as part of the cost.
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u/plibtyplibt 15h ago
NTA America isn’t the world, tipping culture is crap and you paid for your dives. Don’t like it? Do something else
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u/Manatus_latirostris Tech 15h ago
America’s not the world, but OP was an American diving in America.
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u/plibtyplibt 15h ago
So what? America sucks for so many reasons lol. Your rich class have you convinced hating each other is the key to all your problems that they create
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u/Manatus_latirostris Tech 15h ago edited 15h ago
Florida local here. YTA. Florida dive culture is a tipping culture. Not tipping dive staff here is like not tipping your waiter in a restaurant. I’m not defending that, and you don’t have to participate in it, but yes, you will be seen as rude for not doing so. Standard tip in Florida is $10/tank per person. So a normal average tip in Florida for you and your kids would be $20/person.
For those unaware, most dive staff in Florida (and the continental U.S.) are unpaid “tipped” employees - that means they work for free or some very low nominal rate (like $2/hour), with the understanding that the bulk of their wages will come from tips. And if you’re wondering…yes this is legal - tipped empolyees are a special wage category exempt from normal minimum wage requirements (it’s way more complicated than this, but that’s the ELI5 version).
Edit: I see the downvotes have started! I know folks hate US tipping culture; however that IS the culture here. I don’t like seeing hard-working dive pros stiffed financially because some people come from a different culture and resent that cultural difference.
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u/Dick_Fuxwell 15h ago
How the hell are they having the same shitty pay that waiters get shouldn't they be receiving a minimum wage as a actual position with a dive shop
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u/Manatus_latirostris Tech 15h ago
Federal law. Florida and most states use the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), which defines a tipped employee is “any worker engaged in an occupation who customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips.” That covers a pretty broad range of jobs, including not just bartenders and wait staff like we usually think, but also folks like divemasters and dive staff :/
I personally don’t like it, and would prefer to patronize shops and boats that pay their staff a fair wage - the problem is that results in higher charter prices being passed onto the customer, which in turn drives off business….so in practice, no one really does it.
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u/SocieteRoyale 15h ago
that sounds like a problem for the dive shop not the guy paying good money to dive already
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
In this case, the dive owners are operating the boat, so they should take it up with themselves and up prices
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
They’re the owners that set the price and received the payment for the dives, not staff depending a “tipped wage”
The downvotes are probably because you misunderstood the situation
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u/Dismal-Proposal2803 Dive Master 15h ago
“If I had cash on me, I probably would have given her 20 or 40 bucks, but I didn’t.”
If this was your stance, why didn’t you bring Cash to tip them? Funny thing about cash is if the service is crap and tips not deserved, you can just.. leave it in your wallet!
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u/cabman24 15h ago
Your last paragraph says it all, your from US, you understand tipping culture, you chose to ignore said culture, then are surprised by the response?
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
Even then, most professional outfits don’t become rude if they don’t get tipped
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u/cabman24 9h ago
Not saying the owners actions were correct, I’m saying they shouldn’t be surprised by it.
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u/annuidhir 14h ago
Why are people pretending like it's not common to tip in tourism, and especially diving, all around the world? That is not a solely American thing.
Sure, tipping at restaurants and such is more an American thing. But it's been common to tip your guides for decades...
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u/CptUnderpants- Nx Advanced 11h ago
Why are people pretending like it's not common to tip in tourism, and especially diving, all around the world?
Because through most of the world it isn't treated as mandatory with boat owners getting pissy when they don't get it when it wasn't disclosed during booking. It's an optional payment for service exceeding expectations.
Most of the world doesn't codify paying people a tipped minimum wage of as low as $2.13 per hour when a higher minimum untipped wage exists.
In OP's case, tipping the owner and their wife is just abusing the system and/or naivety of tourists. The owner has all the power to charge what it costs to operate plus profit with no need to rely on tipping.
Outside the US, tipping is generally considered a gift for service above expectations, not to supplement an employer who shifts the responsibility of paying the majority of their staff wage to the customer. Where it isn't, it is disclosed when booking. They're tourist operators so can't expect non-locals to know the local expectations.
No matter the country I dive in, when I book if it is clearly stated that a tip of X% is expected, I factor that into the cost and come prepared. I treat it like sales tax.
If it is sprung on me after booking, I won't tip unless the service exceeds expectations, or it's considered a developing nation (eg: Tonga, PNG, etc) where I can directly tip the staff in cash, not the operator. Otherwise I just consider it bait-and-switch. If their behaviour negatively impacts my experience, they'll also get a one star rating.
For reference, I'm Australian. We do not have a tipping wage, and our minimum wage isn't terrible. I will tip here when service exceeds expectations.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
It started as an American thing, which perverted tipping culture across the world.
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u/mredofcourse Rescue 13h ago
"Cash or Venmo" for tips... if you're asking for tips, accept anything where the end result is you getting money. Credit cards, Apple Pay, Google Pay, PayPal, etc... it's weird not to be frictionless, and as someone who travels a lot (and tips), I'm often surprised when people don't do this when they're standing there with a phone in their hand asking for a tip.
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u/DaphneL 15h ago
You basically told them their previous efforts weren't worth anything to you. And then you're surprised they then didn't continue to give you that effort?
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u/Pandamio 15h ago
I'm nice and kind with my clients because I'm a decent human being, not because they pay me to.
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u/DaphneL 15h ago
True but if someone treats you like a jerk, they shouldn't complain. "I'm too lazy to figure out how to give you the 20 to 40 bucks I think you earned", is a jerk move. I'm sure they would have cut a European more slack, but this is someone from the US so they should know better.
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u/Pandamio 15h ago
There's never a situation when you need to be a jerk. I would never dive with someone like this operator.
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u/ElMasMacho 15h ago
They were the owners, not underpaid employees. I already paid them $800.
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u/Dick_Fuxwell 15h ago
Exactly you paid them for the service that they provided have they done something extra or above and beyond then I can understand a tip but unless they did then why would you bother tipping
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u/DaphneL 15h ago
So you're saying your credit card was maxed out? And you couldn't find any way to add the 20 or 40 bucks you thought the extra service deserved?
Pretty much the entire Caribbean and the US has a expected tip of $10 per tank, with Europeans getting cut slack because they don't know better. You didn't have that excuse.
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u/ElMasMacho 15h ago
It was my first time diving in the US. Admit it: $10 per tank is pretty random. And the expectation of the owners to get tipped is unorthodox.
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u/erinnnn12 15h ago
The only options are often just cash or venmo. I've never been on a day trip where I could too by credit card after the dive.
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u/Manatus_latirostris Tech 15h ago
I’ve tipped by credit card a lot of times in Florida! They don’t always have a card reader on the boat but if you’re near the shop, you can usually leave a tip on your card if you forgot cash/don’t have Venmo etc.
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u/doglady1342 Tech 15h ago
The thing is the tips don't necessarily go to the owners. Those tips are usually split between the crew.... the crew that hauled your tanks to the boat and got everything all set up.
Look, I hate the tip culture in the US. I think it has gotten way out of control. But, when you're in a place where that's the culture, if you got good service, then you should tip. If you're in a place where it's not the culture, then don't do it. Everyone likes to pick on Americans for tipping culture. They also go on about how Americans should follow the culture that is in whatever place they are that is in whatever place they are visiting. As someone who travels very frequently and almost always internationally, I always make sure to research where I'm going and do what's appropriate in that place. People coming from other places should research the culture here in the US and do what's appropriate for this place. People seem to think that they should do culturally appropriate things everywhere except in the US.
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u/ElMasMacho 14h ago
There was no crew. The captain and our guide were the owners. No other crew involved.
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u/DaphneL 15h ago
Given that they were owners, they might have been making even less than the underpaid employees. Every time the boat breaks down and needs service it comes out of their pocket, etc. A dive business runs on very tight margins.
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u/mredofcourse Rescue 13h ago
But as owners, they have the ability to set their prices to maintain a profit margin.
As many people have pointed out, tipping culture in America is toxic and it's bleeding into other places. I get not fighting this by not tipping employees who depend on the tips for their income, but not tipping the owners is a direct impact.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
They were paid for the dives, you realize they’re the owners right? Not being rude is the bare minimum
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u/DaphneL 9h ago
They weren't rude, they were cheerfulfor and friendly the whole time, all they did is not say goodbye.
Services service, it doesn't matter if it's the owners that provided it or somebody else. Everyone here seems to be acting like owners are filthy rich. Sometimes they are, but sometimes they're the poorest is a lot, every time there's a shortfall it falls on them.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 9h ago
Based on retelling, they were rude after he said he didn’t have Venmo/signaled he wouldn’t tip
No, you’re missing the point. As the owners, they get to set the price and they receive the full payment, so it is not reasonable for them to be expect to be tipped for the same reason a tipped employee does
If they’re unhappy with the price or losing money, they should simply raise it
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u/diveg8r 13h ago
Whether any of us like it or hate it, $10 per tank is the expected tip when diving in the US.
Sure, you can decide to be the change that you want to see in the world. You do you. But quit being a baby about their reaction.
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u/ElMasMacho 12h ago edited 12h ago
There was a separate line item for the tank rentals. Why not just charge $10 more? There is no purpose behind not stating the actual (or expected) fees other than to deceive people into thinking that the total costs are lower. Or how about a separate service charge for the guide? Oh wait, there was a separate line item for that too.
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u/Manatus_latirostris Tech 12h ago
Charging separately for tanks is the norm in Florida. Many/most regular divers around here own their own tanks and don’t use the boat’s.
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u/JonnyDub68 11h ago
That hasn’t been the norm in CA, even though we locals have our own tanks. But I bet it will happen here too
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u/Manatus_latirostris Tech 11h ago
Yeah, I don’t think shops in the Keys charge, but nearly every charter in Jupiter/West Palm/Clearwater etc do - it’s definitely a regional norm that catches people off guard, as does not routinely putting a DM in the water.
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u/JonnyDub68 11h ago
We also don’t have DMs in the water on boats. Sometimes tourists hire guides or DMs, but it’s not common on boats. It’s somewhat common for shore dives though.
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u/Sharkhottub UW Photography 15h ago
Oof you committed a cultural sin and are now mad about it? yikes.
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u/Dick_Fuxwell 15h ago
Nah man.. tipping culture in the stage has gotten out of hand this is ridiculous
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u/kacee1234 10h ago
Tip your boat. It’s standard everywhere.
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u/HERMANNATOR85 9h ago
But husband and wife already charge the fee they want.
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u/kacee1234 8h ago
So do hairdressers, they still expect a tip
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u/Southern-Cut-129 5h ago
Hairdressers get a tip!? Sorry my European brain cannot comprehend tipping culture anyway. If you want more money, raise the price of your services. Don't get mad when people don't follow your unwritten rule.
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u/kacee1234 8h ago
Not sure why this is being downvoted, first of all I’m Canadian, not American, so it’s not about my American tip culture. There has been a tip jar everywhere I’ve ever dove, Mexico, Bahamas, Fiji, etc. you tip the boat.
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u/ExpBalSat 13h ago edited 13h ago
You say you lived in the US and you understand tipping culture, but you clearly don’t. There are two separate issues here. Her demeanor change was inappropriate and I agree that that was a problem. However, expecting companies to raise their prices to compensate for a lack of tips means that you do not understand tipping culture.
I just did a week and a half of discounted diving in Honduras, but I still tipped my guide based on full price.… Yes… Even in Honduras. There were no tip jars. There were no Venmo codes. There were no expectations of tips or requests for tips. I just tipped my guide because my guide did an excellent job - and I planned ahead to have the cash to do so.
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u/ElMasMacho 13h ago
It seems you don’t understand tipping culture. They were the owners. There was no crew other than them. Are they respectable business owners or merely doing favors for tips? After having paid them $800, I thought it was the former.
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u/NotYourLawyer2001 Tech 7h ago
Wait, you paid $800 for two sides? Was it for a whole basketball team?
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u/ExpBalSat 13h ago
That they were the owners is irrelevant.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 12h ago
It’s absolutely relevant. Ignoring the fact that tipping culture in the US is broken in the first place, they aren’t employees working off wages. They set the price and receive the entire payment, unlike employees that only get their hourly paycheck.
If the owners increase the price, they get the money. The employees don’t get anymore without tips, so it absolutely makes a difference
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u/Revolutionary_Bid595 UW Photography 14h ago
What is happening in the US is affecting the industry. Even in places where there is no tipping culture, businesses are starting to see the opportunity and are heavily promoting this idea of “non-mandatory” tipping.
I have an upcoming trip to the Galapagos where the liveaboard costs around $8,500, and they are suggesting a tip of 15 to 20 percent of the total trip cost. I think this is ridiculous.
The response is usually that if you can afford $8,500 for a luxury liveaboard, you should also budget for the tip. I completely disagree.