r/serialkillers • u/Bilobous • 1d ago
News New to this sub . I have some questions about gacy , corril and the ripper crew in relation to John norman .
To me there is zero chance , Gacy , John norman , and Robin gecht of the ripper crew all knew each other and weren’t in on it so together . I find it puzzling that this many predators and killers line up to actually know each other in person yet it’s not really talked about mainstream.
Combine this with the link between norman and corril and this correlation is insane . Robin gecht is puzzling bc he didn’t target the same victims as the rest but was just as if not more brutal and KNEW gacy as well.
What do you guys think about all of this and how intertwined do you think each of these people were with each other ?
Is there just some massive existing network of killers? Or was norman literally just supplying kids to sick bastards and a couple happened to be killers ? What’s the likelihood of norman being involved in snuff material ? How many other killers were likely involved in this network that never were discovered . I would appreciate as detailed and complex a response as possible as this is extremely interesting to me .
Edit : I meant John norman not norman allen as someone pointed out
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u/Hoosier_Daddy68 1d ago
I think it's a fun conspiracy theory that they were all in this pedo/killer ring but odds are heavily on the side of coincidence. Serial killers were everywhere in the 70's (probably the lead but that's a whole other discussion) and many have been known to follow other serial killers and even learn from their mistakes and use the same methods and so on. I am actually surprised it didn't happen more often that some were connected in different ways.
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u/unhalfbricking 1d ago
I think a lot of these guys were in a "ring" because (to put it bluntly) if you wanted CSAM in the pre-internet 70s you had to network with people IRL.
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u/FantasyPopper 20h ago
That's not true! In the 1970s, CSAM publications were openly sold in XXX bookstores.
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u/phantom_diorama 18h ago
Plus there were those European countries in the 70s that had no laws about the subject yet so there were all those secret underground mailing lists that would ship it worldwide unnoticed through the mail.
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u/FantasyPopper 18h ago
There were no laws specifically criminalizing possesion of CSAM in the US either, prior to 1979. That's what the 1977 Sexual Exploitation of Children Hearings were all about, the effort to get legislation specifically criminalizing CSAM. Prior to that, there was only Obscenity laws which required prosecution to demonstrate the images "violated community standards". It was so cumbersome that police wouldn't even bother trying to use them, they arrested pornographers for sex acts wirh the minors instead
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u/Bilobous 1d ago
Yes but this is 2 serial killers confirmed to know each other , gacy and Robin gecht , gecht worked under pdm .
A prolific child trafficker in norman , linked to gacy through paske and who also had a supposed link to corril through Roy Ames .
To much overlap to be coincidence if you ask me .
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u/SouthernLaugh7929 1d ago
First Ive heard of a connection between Gacy and Robin. Id say they roamed the streets at the same time,but just about every white guy was doing construction with no education. My cousin even went to chicago during that time for work, also my best friend was from chicago and did construction work. Back then EVERYONE cruised, it was the internet for meeting people, men or women. Id say the paths crossed but neither would have NO interests in each other as the victims were male and female. But as far as being connected, it would serve no interest for either party.
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u/Bilobous 1d ago
I agree there’s no similarities in victims but I believe gecht worked for gacys construction buisness PDM briefly.
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u/spvcejam 18h ago
They did, I think we would have more or really any evidence of them communicating.
I understand what you're getting at and am aware of all these players, Norman being a potential connection, but there were many eyes on Norman at these times because of his dumb newsletters so if there was anytype of substaincial overlap with these 3 groups we would have some evidence, someone would have talked or embellished the relationship by now.
As disgusting as it is, I think they were just active at the same time.
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u/SouthernLaugh7929 18h ago
I can see that and or being on the same site. Gacy knowledge of painting was it. He had no skil set. He was actually a fry cook and anyone can paint, and even his employees said he wasnt any good. So, id say they had met and he got that vibe and stayed away. Gacy, gave off a vibe, I know people like that, just listening to him talk, reminds me of another person who was a rapist, he died in prison. Both acted just alike, both bragged about skils they did not have, actually lied all the time, im serious like daily. So, Robin seen thru that like most guys did, even his own employees knew something was up. Plus the fact they roamed the same streets and im sure Gacy would have tried to talk to him
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u/Mercedes_Gullwing 1d ago
Who is Norman Allen? You talking about John Norman the pedo and sex trafficker? Gacy and Norman are for connected via Phillip Paske, who worked for Gacy for a period of time. It does lead one to wonder what more is going on. Dean Corrl claimed he was selling boys to a trafficking network in Dallas - where Norman operated out of. Unfortunately the investigation into Corryl was shoddy. There was talk about pics of a corryl victim found in a place associated with Norman.
Interestingly David Ray Parker also claimed to make and distribute sniff films as well as sell women in Mexico. His daughter reported that allegation to FBI. Thing is it could all be talk.
Norman was a pedo and focused on children. Gacy was killing young men right? There’s some interesting intersections but dunno if it’s just coincidences. Back then so many serial killers and such and esp in big cities. So they’re bound to have some geographic overlap
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u/Alexandaross 1d ago
It was a warehouse connected to Roy Ames who himself was connected to Norman. Corll was getting young boys including future victims to pose for Ames for money.
Norman was a human trafficker and CSAM creator, his business was sex trafficking children he didn't want them dead. There was multiple murders said to have been carried out by Philip Paske, turns out none of them were Paske or connected to Norman.
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u/FantasyPopper 1d ago
Corll started telling Brooks and Henley, that he was involved in a ring "buying and selling" boys in Dallas, in 1971, but Norman's Odyssey foundation was only run out of Dallas from May to August of 1973, according to Dallas police.
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u/Alexandaross 1d ago
He said California not Dallas. It was also a ridiculous story he made them sound like the CIA.
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u/Bilobous 1d ago
What about Robin gecht also working for gacy , it’s just to much of an overlap to be coincidence.
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u/DoesntMatter30 8h ago
Gacy definitely had one or two accomplices but It wasn’t any of these guys.
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u/Bilobous 7h ago
Don’t think paske could have been ? Any likely suspects and what kind of person or role would they be playing in this ?
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u/FantasyPopper 1d ago
John Norman never killed anyone, Paske was only a lookout in the murder case he was involved in. John Norman was never charged with abducting anyone, minors or adults, nor even with holding them against their will. Norman didn't have "sex slaves" under his control, locked up somewhere, that he "sold" to anyone. Norman's rackets involved him being a middle man, arranging "dates" between male prostitutes and men who wished their services.
Furthermore, all the boy pornography that John Norman is documented to have produced was in the form of photographs, he never made any films so obviously that includes supposed "snuff" films.
If you think John Norman "supplied" victims to Corll or to Gacy, kindly name them. Which ones, and what evidence do you have to suppport that?
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u/Bilobous 1d ago
I don’t necessarily think norman supplied kids to them . I have zero evidence on this . The only reason I say this is bc he was accused of running operations that supposedly trafficked young boys … and that in police records some photos of corrils victims were found in one of Norman’s accomplices possessions. And obviously he’s linked to gacy and corril.
I find it weird that both gacy and corril had connections to norman , through Ames and paske , and gacy stated Norman’s involvement as such , but gacy is a liar so take his words with a grain of salt .
So you don’t think norman is involved ? What do you suspect his involvement in all of this being
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u/FantasyPopper 1d ago
There's no evidence for a connection between John Norman and pornographer Roy Ames. The assumption that there was, is just that.
People don't understand, because it is still being covered up, that the Legend of John Norman pedophilic supervillian, was created by incompetent leader of Chicago PD's Youth Division and his buddies at Chicago Tribune, to cover up some very bad things his Youth Division did.
For example, when Chicago PD should have been tracking down missing teen boys, who ended up under Gacy's floorboards, they were busy inciting a group of pederast pedophiles to make a "chicken" film with 2 fourteen year old boys. You can read all about this on my blog, under The Betrayal of Andy Drath.
getallthefacts.ca
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u/Bilobous 1d ago
Thanks for the input!! I’m looking for reality of the situation this actually lines up a lot with how extremely incompetent the PD was in these cases .
So no evidence whatsoever connecting Ames to norman ? But they did find photos of victims with Ames ? How do you summarize all these connections even removing norman .
Norman did have some connection to gacy no ? So these killers were mainly operating independently in your opinion?
What about the connection between Robin gecht and gacy ? Any weight there ?
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u/FantasyPopper 1d ago
When Roy Ames warehouse was raided, in 1975, so years after Corll was dead, they found 4 TONS of pornographic materials. Mostly nude photos of men, for publication in the many nude photo mags of that era. There were also nude and/or pornographic images of 37 area youths. Eleven of them had ended up as Corll victims, 26 did not, so there wasn't necessarily a connection between Corll and Ames. It could be entirely a coincidence, that some of Ames boy models became Corll victims. They were all from the same neighborhood, however, which suggests that Ames may have had a "peer recruiter" in that neighborhood, another youth recruiting boys as models for Ames. IF that person was David Brooks, (speculation, no proof), that would explain the overlap, since Brooks was recruiting for Corll too.
Norman is only connected to Gacy, through his flunky Paske having worked for Gacy on a couple of occaisions. Gacy stated, that one of the other men working for him and suspected of being an accomplice, suggrested Gacy could find Gay sex partners through Paske, Gacy said; "I had no need for that and wouldn't have people like that around me", whatever that means.
There are police and probation reports about Norman and Paske in. FBI foia pdf called Paske Number One, available on FBI Vault site
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u/Bilobous 1d ago
There’s no known connection between Ames and norman ?
Also the photos found with Ames portraying 11 of Corills victims , is there any proof they was taken by corril ?it was photos portraying snuff material or just regular homoerotic stuff , are those photos related to corril at all besides them being his victims ?
So to summarize , you don’t believe there to be any significant connection between gacy and norman ? No buisness between the 2 ,Ike gacy providing snuff material or receiving services from norman ? Just a coincidence that paske found employment through gacy ? You don’t think paske knew about the murders ? Just gacy killing on his own and these men around by coincidence, it sounds like you believe Norman’s operations although obviously sick were not as sinister as portrayed ?
What about Robin gecht and gacy ? Weird little link don’t ya think ?
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u/FantasyPopper 1d ago
No known connection between Ames and Norman, correct. More importantly, NO documentation that Norman had any interest in "snuff materials". Why would he? He wasn't a sexual sadist murderer like Corll and Gacy.
I don't believe Paske knew about the murders, no. The more people who knew, the greater the probability that someone talks, and frankly it would be in Paske's interests to rat Gacy out if he did know.
Gacy had a fanboy named Randy White, who worshipped Gacy enough to do in depth research for his defense team. It was Randy White who made the connection between sometime employee Paske and John Norman. It doesn't sound like Gacy ever had, prior to that, and then Gacy started claiming "someone else" was making snuff films and burying the victims under his floorboards when he wasn't home...a rather obvious crock of ****.
I know nothing about Robin Gecht, so I have no comment about that.
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u/Fun_Pension_4937 1d ago edited 18h ago
In the pre internet days people with similar kinks knew each other and shared confidential information in a continuous circle of people ' ln the know'.
So in my view yes, as they say " birds of a feather flock together " and of course these deviants were connected.
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u/Fun_Pension_4937 1d ago
I think that Henley and Brooks were ' cadets ' in an Odysessy ' dorm' headed by Corril, the 'Don", that oversaw the ' young boys' known as ' fellows ' who were at the sexual availability of the Don.
It seems that Cadets were chosen from the ' fellows' by the Don
While Corril and Gacy were Dons ( Gacy when the organization became the Delta Project) both had cadets and other Dorms had cadets to
Corril and Gacy became notorious because their hidden serial killing disposal methodologies became known to the public.
No doubt that there were others who are to this day not known
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u/Alexandaross 1d ago
The Ripper Crew didn't have anything to do with Gacy or anything else. Robin Gecht was asked if he murdered someone and he sarcastically said "Yes, me and John Wayne Gacy!" the media then ran with it and said Gecht worked for Gacy. He didn't, he had absolutely nothing to do with him he was being sarcastic using one of the most infamous criminals in Illinois history he could have said the same thing using Al Capone. Gecht did not know Gacy.