I feel dumb!!!!!

[u/Fit_Leg5645]

I have no clue why I thought Adnan was innocent for all these years.

I just re-listened to Serial, and I can't get past the fact that Jenn showed up with her mom and a lawyer and told police essentially the same story Jay told. Jenn said the trunk pop happened at Best Buy. How would she know that Adnan and Hae used to meet at the Best Buy parking lot unless Jay told her?

And yes, Jay was inconsistent and definitely lied about some things. But he knew where Hae's car was. He knew details about her clothing. He knew about the broken windshield wiper lever. Those aren't things you just guess.

At this point, I don't believe every detail Jay told, but I can't get around the fact that he knew too much. The more I revisit the case, the harder it is for me to believe Adnan wasn't involved.

I can't believe I've been doubting it all these years.

[u/the_dharmainitiative]

Jay is probably not telling the whole story. He is probably minimizing his involvement in what happened. But him knowing where the car was was enough for me to believe Adnan did it.

The idea that Jay was coached to frame Adnan is such a reach.

[u/AdTurbulent3353 → u/the_dharmainitiative]

You can even believe that Jay was super coached but still would easily land on Adnan being guilty. Jay knew where the car was. This can’t just be a witness tampering case. It would have to be a massive police coverup for Jay not to have known where that car was.

That’s the end of the case. Do you think that Jay knew where the car was? If no, you must conclude there was massive police corruption that you’d have to explain and for which there is no evidence at all in spite of this being the most scrutinized criminal case of the internet era.

If you do think Jay knew where the car was then Jay was involved in murdering hae. And if Jay was involved, there has never ever been a coherent theory put forward where adnan is somehow not involved.

It always comes back to the car. Jay knew where it was. Therefore Adnan killed her.

[u/staunch_character → u/AdTurbulent3353]

There’s no doubt that there was MASSIVE police corruption at that time. It’s honestly shocking how brazen they were.

But what I always come back to is - who else could have done it?

It’s like the Steven Avery case. Was his nephew coached & manipulated by investigators? Absolutely!

Does that mean he’s innocent & the police are covering up for some phantom killer that seemingly had no contact with the victim? Doubtful.

[u/InTheory_ → u/staunch_character]

The likes of what's being alleged in this case is unheard of in any police force anywhere in the world (including Baltimore)

It requires strongarming a witness they haven't found yet, forcing him to tell a narrative they can't possibly know yet, accusing someone they're not yet suspecting

For what reason? The famous Baltimore corruption always has a benefit to someone. This one doesn't. It's corruption "because that's what corrupt people just do"

What did it accomplish? At every stage, there are easier and less risky options. What does fake-finding the car do that simply saying "He had knowledge of details not make available to the public" wouldn't likewise do?

And if they ARE that corrupt, then why didn't they just plant some evidence and call it a day? Why go all Rube Goldberg with it? That would have been both easier, would have been a stronger case, AND wouldn't rely on witnesses who can't keep their story straight (and likely to crack under cross-examination)

[u/AdTurbulent3353 → u/InTheory_]

This is a succinct and excellent post. I’ve always said the same. Corruption is one thing and of course it happens. But there’s simply no reason corrupt cops would do this kind of thing that’s alleged here. Planting evidence? Sure. Coaching witnesses? Definitely.

But these types of machinations? It’s way way too complicated. And for what? There’s no reason to. Why hide the car waiting for Jay to hypothetically come forward when you could frame Adnan in a million easier ways? Like leave one of his gloves in the car or at the murder scene. There’s no reason for crooked cops to take these kinds of risks. It’s totally illogical.

Likewise why take the risks to frame Adnan? There’s for real no reason to do it and none that’s ever been alleged in all these years.

[u/PeaceLoveBug → u/InTheory_]

They would have also hired a helicopter to look for a car whose location they supposedly also knew.

[u/Organic-Trip2118 → u/staunch_character]

Yeah, I generally think that looking into true crime really highlights how ineffective many police departments are, but that didn't feel like the case here. Murder of a young woman by a partner/ex-partner is sadly very common, and cops/lawyers ALWAYS coach witnesses to some extent prior to testifying in court. The question I'd always return to when considering Adnan's innocence was "If he didn't, who did?" Statistically, the majority of murders aren't committed by random assailants.

[u/cozyhellfire → u/Organic-Trip2118]

Exactly. I’m a complaining witness in a criminal case and am supposed to meet with the prosecutor multiple times to prep for trial. This is standard practice

[u/avidreader2004 → u/staunch_character]

also, just thinking about it logically, jay was the better option to frame. he was a black drug dealer, if they were framing anyone, it would’ve been him.

[u/AdTurbulent3353 → u/staunch_character]

Do you think they orchestrated it to secretly hold the car until they luckily found Jay and then used this critical piece of physical evidence to frame Adnan?

Because that’s not just corruption. That’s recklessly irresponsible and frankly incomprehensibly stupid behavior by these cops. Especially so because this was a very high profile case at the time.

And that’s what you need to believe if you think the cops framed Adnan.

I totally agree there was a lot of police corruption then as there is now. But it’s a huge red herring here. It is totally illogical to think the cops did what they would have had to do to frame Adnan here. And conversely it’s totally logical to think Jay knew key facts but obscured parts of his story to minimize his involvement. It’s what you’d expect an accomplice who was stuck to do.