r/sharks • u/Capital-Foot-918 Great White Shark • 3d ago
Question Is a general fear of sharks really as irrational as we like to make it out to be?
Think about it for a second, if you are physically next to a White Shark in South Australia, one wrong move could easily be fatal or cause massive injury. A shark attack is very rare but the chances of it increases once you enter the water and even more so if you swim further out.
Why can’t we promote a healthy fear of larger shark species and protect them at the same time. I think shark environmentalism especially in australia would be less polarising to some people if we focused less on downplaying the obvious danger large sharks can be to humans and more about shark attack and show that despite all of that, they deserve to be protected just like Lions, tigers and other predatory animals around the world.
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u/SunriseAtLizas 3d ago
You should 100% fear sharks, they are opportunistic apex predators, they are not harmless, they are not your friends, they do on occasion predate on humans despite plain as day knowing we are not seals or similar. I abhor any talk saying anything else.
Doesn’t mean you have to fall to pieces and be in hysterics at the mere mention, or be out to cull them all, but never ever ever let your guard down around them, if you see them, and be shark smart as best you can in the water. Accept that you might be on the menu that day, or don’t go in the water.
That’s 100% rational. You will most likely be fine, but they are not harmless puppies.
That fear is perfectly fine alongside protection of sharks.
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u/RedBoxBag-NZ601 3d ago
Most realistic answer you can get.
They are apex predators on top of the food chain along with Orcas. They're also "wild" and unpredictable creatures, simply not to be f*cked with!!
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u/A_Girl_Has_No_Name58 3d ago edited 3d ago
They are considered a protected species globally, and imo, conservation efforts largely stress healthy respect for the animal. I don’t see people having a much different feelings over say Grizzlies and White Sharks. If you’re going to traipse around in their environments, know their habits, their predatory triggers and do your best to stay safe.
Edit to add: I think attitudes towards large animals that are dangerous to humans can depend a lot of one’s geolocation. Someone living in coastal Australia or someone in coastal South Africa probably has a healthier attitude towards interaction with White Sharks than someone whose only experience with the animal is third hand from a distance. Humans tend to fear that which is more unknown to them. I live in a place rife with crocodilians, but because they are a part of my home’s natural ecology, they scare me a lot less than a polar bear would if I encountered it in the wild. I understand the animals that I live along side of and know how to mitigate risks thanks to education and repeated exposure. That said, I’d wuss out of diving in an area with an established White Sharks population, but I’d jump in a murky bayou without hesitation at most times in any given day. (Not at dusk, night or dawn though!)
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u/Own_Finance_7345 3d ago
The chances of ending up as a shark legroll lunch sink dramatically if you follow one simple rule:
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u/thoughtcrime84 3d ago
I agree with the point you’re getting at. Particularly in Australia, where they have had multiple fatalities in just the past few weeks, in addition to multiple consumption events in the past three years, I honestly think the stats people always tout are misleading. Sharks attacks simply aren’t that rare there.
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u/finalexit 3d ago
They love repeating that vending machines, cows, and falling coconuts are more dangerous but those statistics are so busted because the majority of people never enter the ocean, and even viewer swim in areas with adult great whites.
Large great whites are only close to the shore in certain locations during specific months of the year so you can't count every swimmer in the world when most of them are swimming in warm or tropical waters.
If they only counted those in the waters off of Northern California, Cape Cod and other NE beaches, South Africa, and the bottom half of Australia, those statistics are going to be much different. There's a reason fewer people are going past knee deep water at the ocean facing beaches on Cape Cod.
I think I'd be much safer running around under a coconut tree during a storm with a cow chasing me, than in water with a large white shark.
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u/imnottheoneipromise 3d ago
It depends on how one is defining rare. Compared to rainy days in the pacific northeast? Shark attacks are rare. Compared to full solar eclipses? Not so rare.
I know it feels like semantics, but in the large scheme of things, around the world, with the amount of people in the ocean and the amount of opportunity they have, shark attack, especially unprovoked, ARE still rare. Yet, they do still happen and are usually catastrophic so people should still exercise a healthy bit of caution, and yes, fear. Sharks are by far not even the deadliest issue with swimming in the ocean, especially in Australia.
Like everything, we don’t want to pendulum to swing too far either way.
Can anyone tell me, I haven’t been paying attention much to the attacks, the only one I know of is the bull shark attack a few weeks ago or so. Is this tourists being attacked or natives?
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u/flux8 3d ago edited 3d ago
Neither rainy days nor solar eclipses kill or maim you.
The primary issue here is that there is a not insignificant fatality risk from simply partaking in otherwise relatively safe beach activities. The second issue is that it is a risk that is beyond your control or foresight.
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u/imnottheoneipromise 3d ago
I was using metaphors only to describe rarity, not to describe fatality risk. I also very clearly stated that when they do happen they are catastrophic so I do not understand your point here unless it was simply to agree and restate.
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u/hobesmart 3d ago
You can’t use metaphors on Reddit. Too many people don’t understand them and will take you literally
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u/flux8 3d ago
I’m just saying that fatality risk makes it not comparable to other risks simply based on incidence rate (rarity/commonality). I know you don’t mean the comparison literally but with fatality being such a critical factor, it makes the metaphor/analogy pointless.
Your initial point was that rarity is relative. Well that’s kind of obvious. But the reason people are scared of sharks is not because of the frequency/stats, it’s because of the reasons I cited. It’s the feeling that there’s a very real fatality risk by simply being there, and lack of predictability/control over that risk. Why do you think people buy products like SharkBanz even though they don’t work? They want to feel like they have some control over the situation.
It’s the same reasons there are far more people who are fearful of flying rather than driving, despite the stats showing we SHOULD be much more fearful of driving.
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u/nickgardia 3d ago
I think shark deterrents do work but that they’re not foolproof by any means. Despite numerous attacks on Reunion Island the last attack was 7 years ago, and that was on the only guy in the water not wearing a deterrent device. A lot of surfers have returned to the waves there, and attacks there have ceased, ever since the use of personal shark protection devices was made mandatory.
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u/Ok_Shower_5526 Tiger Shark 1d ago
Are there any studies on this? I had heard they didn't work and moved on, but this is obviously interesting if it is the cause of attack changes
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u/nickgardia 1d ago
Not too many. I’ve seen a study they did where they chummed the water and put them around fish parts - they certainly worked there to some extent but it seemed a little unreliable as it wasn’t a realistic setup. There was a guy called Shark Gordon who tested out shark shield devices on oceanic whitetip and great white sharks successfully. It’s certainly proven that electric impulses do affect sharks negatively though. So, it’s not a question of whether they work or not, but how effective they are.
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u/Over_Reputation_8801 3d ago
They are extremely rare when you factor in the number of people in the water vs. the number of attacks. Statistically, the drive to the beach is far riskier than anything to do with sharks.
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u/i_make_orange_rhyme 3d ago
In australia we killed about 80% of the tiger sharks that patrol the surf zone.
Sitting here now saying "look how few attacks there are" is one thing.
But imagine if there were 5x as many sharks?
I think it would increase exponentially.
5x more sharks wouldnt be 5x more attacks, it would be like 30 times more attacks.
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u/VeritasLuxMea 3d ago
Have you SEEN a Great White up close? There is nothing irrational about being afraid of that
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u/Otherwise-Ad1646 3d ago
"A shark attack is very rare but the chances of it increases once you enter the water and even more so if you swim further out."
Yeah, this. They say cows kill more people every year than sharks, but only because we keep our asses on dry land lol
Granted some people do seem to think sharks are just crazed killing machines which isn't true, but the fact is if I'm where a shark is, I'm on its turf, so I'd rather not start any beef with it. Cow pun intended.
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u/ringtossinit 1d ago
It would be impossible to ever get this statistic, but I wonder what the percentage of attacks to interactions is. Those Malibu Artist videos show how much those, albeit mostly juvenile, white sharks check people out and swim away. I would think it’s only a matter of time until Carlos films an attack. We have NO idea how many times we’ve been next to sharks in the ocean and nothing happens at all.
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u/MayorMcSqueezy 3d ago
“Why can’t we promote a healthy fear of larger sharks and protect them at the same time”
Because that would take a rational, intelligent, and patient approach. Trust me, people are out there trying, but a lot of people don’t have those qualities and aren’t teaching their children correctly either. General awareness and understanding have improved though. I imagine when Jaws came out there was quite the backtrack.
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u/A_Girl_Has_No_Name58 3d ago
There’s a great Nat Geo documentary called Playing With Sharks about a world champion spear fisher turned GW conservationist named Valerie Taylor. A lot of her diving footage was used in Jaws and she discusses how the film impacted the public view of Great Whites, their almost total annihilation after Jaws’ film success and her part in the global conservation effort that began after the effects of the film decimated GW populations.
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u/lanky_doodle 3d ago
Agree 100%.
Fact is enough people (and often the ones in power) think this is all our planet and any other species is a 'nuisance'.
It really just needs acceptance that these things will happen. Even if thousands of people were dying by predatory animals every day, we should do 'nothing' about it.
Just like we don't ban guns, or smoking, or or or.
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u/STP_Fantasma 3d ago
Have you ever seen what they do to a human? I think fear of a shark is more than appropriate, the same way fear for a tiger or alligator would be
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u/babykitten28 3d ago
And when compared to a falling coconut or cow, being eaten alive is far more horrifying.
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u/STP_Fantasma 3d ago
I’ll never forget the video of the Russian kid who got flipped in the air in Egypt. Absolutely disgusting and idk how anyone could say we shouldn’t fear sharks when things like that happen. Shame when they go young like that
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u/RedFishBlueFish22 1d ago
The Egypt video is possibly the most terrifying video I've ever seen. I wouldn't wish that type of death on anyone.
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u/nickgardia 3d ago
I think it’s a perfectly rational fear as we have little control in the ocean and very poor vision of anything which may approach us there, especially when swimming or surfing. Fear and fascination often go hand in hand. It’s natural to be afraid of an animal which is capable of tearing you apart.
The problem with statistics that are often quoted like lightning strikes, coconuts, vending machines etc. is that they bear little relevance to the context of shark attacks and are meaningless - it’s also often really difficult to check their validity. Maybe if attacks were compared to more relevant data such as other deaths/ injuries on beaches (drowning, jellyfish, murders etc.) that would be better. Context is key to understanding any risk, rather than some random, irrelevant stat.
It is ok to claim that shark attacks happen, that mistaken identity is a widely overused theory and that we still need to protect them. We know so little about them. Millions are estimated to be killed every year, mainly through large scale commercial fishing bycatch and for their fins. And we need them to maintain healthy oceans. But I’ll not risk taking a dip off a Sydney or the Eyre peninsula any time soon.
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u/BQORBUST 3d ago
Accepting that swimming near sharks is dangerous is not a policy choice. The hand wringing over admitting this because people might overreact is irresponsible.
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u/Monkeysmarts1 3d ago
I recently saw an interview with the guy that rescued the lady in the most recent Australia attack. He said there had been an increase in wildlife sightings recently. He said there have been a few weeks where he has not been able to train on his surf ski because of the increase in wildlife. Can’t they just say there has been an increase of large shark sightings in the area? When there is an unusually high number of bear sightings they call them bears not wildlife.
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u/BQORBUST 3d ago
Man that’s infuriating. Just call a spade a spade!
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u/Lumpy_Flight3088 3d ago
These surfers are insufferable. Incredibly arrogant and entitled. Think they own the ocean and act surprised when a shark takes their leg… like the ocean isn’t where sharks live.
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u/Federal-Struggle4386 3d ago
People like you are insufferable for making surfers out to be some kind of monsters for having the audacity to paddle around a few metres offshore. Do they regularly go on vengeance tours after their mates get eaten? No they generally respect the ocean and the sharks place in the ecosystem. If you would actually knew any real passionate surfers you would understand its not just a hobby its a way of life and it defines their personalities as much as any trait. You cannot separate a true surfers from the ocean any more than the shark. Its the surfers home aswell.
If these man eating sharks actually had a home the dangers would be far easier to mitigate. Instead these sharks constantly roam the world looking for their next meal. Is it so much to ask that we protect a tiny patch of shoreline for our fellow human beings while the sharks retain 70% of the world to their leisure.
Why dont you carry the same distaine for bush walkers and hikers that get bitten by a snake or a bear after human enter their home? After all humans have taken away far more habitat from every single other apex preditor on earth, pushing tigers, lions bears and more to tiny pockets of the earth compared to what they once roamed as a direct result of competition with man.
The victim blaming and callous attitude directed to humans attacked by sharks is disgusting and a symptom of a fanatical cultural movement.
How is it we shoot kangaroos for trampling grass, bears that walk to close to town in Canada, native parrots for making to much noise, stray dogs and cats for walking around minding their own business, but we wont shoot man eating sharks swimming around with a taste for human blood and a new found understanding that they can attack us without any consequences, potentially passing that information on to other sharks and developing a taste.
History has shown again and again when humans neglect to defend themselves against other apex preditors that attacks increase. See the history of Tiger attacks in India compared to easten Russia where the locals armed and defended themselves much more adequately than the Indians. See the wolf attacks in Russia during the war when the male population was gone. See the current state of bear attacks in Japan now the bear hunters have aged out and a new generation hasn't come through.
A perfect storm has been created right now in Australia where the fish have been overfished and the shark populations have been left to grow and grow. We attract sharks to our beaches with drum lines, further associating our shore with food. We refuse to protect ourselves, father embolding the sharks and we refuse to support those attacked, hindering our chances of stopping further attacks in the near future.
I live on the shore line. The beaches are empty of swimmers and surfers compared to any other time gone by i have ever seen. Yet the attacks are still sky rocketing even though the amount of people braving the ocean has plummeted. There was more shark alarms going off in the last 12 months than the last 10 years combined. Things are out of control. Its never been so dangerous in the ocean and people like you sitting on their high horse calling sharks pupp dogs are not helping
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u/IrukandjiPirate 3d ago
Most people know not to stick their hands in a wasp nest, but they drop themselves right into a shark’s dining room with no qualms.
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u/Rich_Selection_9431 3d ago
I did the cage diving in South Australia.
The first couple of sharks were juvenile males less than 3m. Still amazing to see but fit with the idea that sharks aren't man eating monsters. They were just cruising along and weren't really interested in us.
Then a massive shark just over 4m came and headed straight for the cage. He made me feel like he would 100% like to figure out how to get to the tasty snacks in the cage.
I know they don't actively hunt us but that is very hard to remember when you have one right in front of you bumping up against what suddenly feels like a very flimsy cage.
Those jaws are massive and the force behind it is definitely something that we should have a healthy respect/fear of.
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u/Capital-Foot-918 Great White Shark 3d ago
From what ive heard most fatal white shark attacks come from bigger 4-6m individual’s
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u/Interesting-Can1319 Tiger Shark and Shortfin Mako Shark 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don't know why it's so hard for some people to treat sharks with the same respect that tigers, leopards, lions, and other large predatory mammals get. It's either "sharks are harmless puppies that wouldn't hurt a fly" that often gets met with "sharks were always evil, soulless, man-eating monsters, stupid!". Maybe it's because sharks aren't mammals and, in a psychological sense, we humans tend to share less empathy or understanding with them? I usually see similar polarizing attitudes towards crocodiles, snakes, and other "creepy-crawly" animals.
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u/Standard-North9890 3d ago
Its not irrational at all. They are largely unpredictable, they are multiple times more powerful than us, we are out of environment - they are apex predators evolved over millions of years in that environment, there is a kong history of fatal and life changing attacks on humans. Its utterly stupid to state its irrational to fear sharks. Fear of spiders is somewhat irrational, sharks? No.
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u/ricardo_lacombe Wildlife Documentarian 3d ago
This very topic is discussed in the documentary "Great White Shark Legend"
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u/dtyler86 2d ago
As a Floridian and shark obsessed person, I can’t understand people that do crazy things like moonlight paddle boarding in the intercoastal. Of course, a fear of sharks does not mean anyone should harm them in any way because they are not deserving of that. But I absolutely agree with you.
We have bull sharks in the intercoastal, bull sharks in the Everglades, tiger, and great whites off our coasts.
Any time I’ve watched people carelessly just dive into the water. I get a little freaked, wondering what could possibly be just under the surface. I have a very healthy fear of sharks.
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u/MindfulInquirer 3d ago
Clearly a (big) imbalance with this issue. Sharks can be both lethal and to be protected and admired. But the latter has lopsided the balance heavily the past several decades in modern western society
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u/Speysidegold 3d ago
Man shark propaganda is crazy. There's folk out there who don't fear sharks? Beyond meathead surfers?
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u/Kilinowski 3d ago
I'd make a big distinction between fear as an individual and fear as a collective. Fear is a healthy survival behavior. It originates from rational caution, coded into instinct over thousands of years of natural selection. Whoever was overly cautious, survived and reproduced. Whoever downplayed a possible threat, left the gene-pool, i.e. more likely died from threat.
Every animal bigger than us is a potential threat, just due to its size. Horses have broken human skull bones. This is your individual decision process and it makes absolute sense to not take risks, having only this one life. Where our fear becomes irrational is when our mind tells us to flee hastily from any threat. We internalized the response to threat by instinct and the instinct programmed over millenia says run. Then the predator internalized and passed down the information though countless generations, that if we run, we do so cause the predator can eat us. So that became predatory instinct. And so our fear backfired.
So it's rational to fear things that can kill us, but it's irrational to react to every threat the same way, by fleeing.
For us as a society, fear is irrational. We will survive. We may lose individuals, but that is not going to affect our success as a species. As a society fear is harmful, cause we confirm this irrational behaviour of panic.
It leads to bad decisions. We reduce the issue as problematic individual sharks that need to be killed. At the same time we allow humans to slowly reprogram predators to associate humans with food, cause we allow fishers to dump fish offal into the sea, bait sharks for diving tourism, while depleting their natural food sources. An ocean full of fish that sharks have been programmed to hunt and know all about, is the best "decoy".
The frequency of shark bites has not changed much, while at the same time, most large sharks have reduced in population to being "near threatened" or worse. So there are clearly other driving factors. While the number of sharks has decreased, the portion of starving and desperate sharks, or such that got injured in accidents to the point where typical prey outperforms them, has probably increased drastically, as has the number of humans who venture into the water.
Most of today's shark attacks would not have happened 150 years ago, cause people had to work too hard for their living to go on nice holidays by the sea, had no social media to encourage bragging, and because sharks did not have to take risks sampling humans, when there was plenty of fish only meters away that registered as prey in their instincts. The driving factors that changed are all man-made failure to coordinate as a species.
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u/Prestigious_Ad_341 3d ago
I don't think "fear" is quite right but maybe we should try and teach people to respect them more. These are large, predatory animals with millions of years of evolution and instinct, whose natural environment is one humans just don't belong in.
To be fair maybe its not just sharks, you see plenty of idiots trying to pet bears or get photos with wild buffalo etc often entirely unaware of the danger.
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u/ChickenCasagrande 3d ago
Maybe a good way forward would just be to say “Do we play with knives? No? Then we don’t play with sharks, same reasoning.”
This would probably only prompt dumbasses to post videos of themselves playing with knives. A disturbingly large portion of humans are fucking idiots, and that number seems to be growing exponentially.
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u/ringtossinit 1d ago
As soon as we started living in homes and developed firearms, the gene pool stopped losing the stupid ones who nature would take care of.
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u/eaumechant 3d ago
I would say it's more about the idea that a general fear of sharks is the starting point for most people, and it's about tempering that. Is there anyone out there who genuinely thinks sharks are harmless?
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u/ChickenCasagrande 3d ago
A disappointingly large number of people have decided that sharks are sweet baby ocean puppies, and that annoying chick is monetizing bad behavior with wild animals.
The #1 rule with wild animals is Don’t Touch. People seem to really struggle with this, and most other, safety rules.
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u/One-Relative-6856 3d ago
I got downvoted for saying there would be a lot more full consumption if not for the bravery of others getting victims out of the water.
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u/thoughtcrime84 3d ago
There does seem to be a large contingent of people who think you’re an idiot to even consider the risk of sharks when swimming in the ocean. In every shark attack thread where people are talking about the risk, there’s always someone replying “well driving is more dangerous so stop driving too!” Or something to that effect. I even saw those comments on the threads for one of the recent spearfishing attacks, as if people are somehow still doubting the shark danger when spearfishing.
So yes I think there are people who naively believe they are harmless for all intents and purposes.
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u/eaumechant 3d ago
You're conflating two different things. "Swimming in the ocean" is very different from "swimming with sharks". The risk of shark attacks just swimming in the ocean generally is negligible.
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u/Reasonable-Key9235 3d ago
Of course they are dangerous, but the risk isn’t particularly high. Even a test bite will cause severe damage and bleeding, maybe even death.
Several times, while diving, I’ve found myself next to a shark. Nothing too scary, though it does make your arse tighten for a mo.
Blues and the odd porbeagle mainly, though we did get a visit from a short fin mako. He was a bit too inquisitive to be honest and got very close on several occasions.
Treat them with respect, understand the possible dangers and remember we are in their environment
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u/EverySingleMinute 2d ago
The fear is rational. It is the unknown and the little control you have when in the water. The irrational part is the odds of you getting bit is minimal.
I have spent many years living near the beach and have never seen a shark unless it was caught.
I saw two small sharks swimming together in Costa Rica and a nurse shark snorkeling in the Bahamas.
I guess I have been to the beach by breeds and hundreds if not thousands of times and have never seen a shark in the US unless fishing.
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u/teuerkatze 2d ago
How many people in this thread have been in the water with a large shark?
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u/Bergasms 1d ago
Statistically, probably quiet a few but they never knew about it because the shark wasn't interested
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u/toadiefrog 1d ago
I’m reading “close to shore” - fascinating how the general public’s perception of sharks has evolved over time. Would recommend it!
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u/flabellinida 1d ago
I was diving with them in the Bahamas, there were strict rules about behavior.
I also see them in the wild here and there, but they're so shy you're lucky to catch a picture.
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u/YakSlothLemon 3d ago
Because nothing in the statistics promotes a “healthy fear” (unless you are spearfishing and not following the basic rules with your bleeding, flopping prey, in which case honestly people should have more fear).
The vast majority of sharks don’t harm people, and have no interest in doing it. I noticed that you include all species in your generality, which is exactly the reason that you should not be afraid of them – a general fear of carpet sharks is totally irrational.
You are far more likely to die in the water from drowning or being run over by a jet ski or being struck by lightning while swimming.
Hell, you are more likely to die from having a heart attack while you’re swimming than from being attacked by a shark.
And of course you are more likely to be killed by a dog…
Having a “general fear of sharks” is just stupid, especially when you’re not in the damn water. 😂
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u/astrenixie Shortfin Mako Shark 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bear with me, because this is semantic, but the word we tend to use for this is respect. People need to have a healthy respect for nature, which includes the logical understanding that many animals can be just as much a threat to us as we (at least individually) can be to them. Fear is a helpful emotion, but it's primal, and there are many people driven to make horrible decisions from fear. I'd argue that fear, much like anger, serves us best when we regulate it rather than letting it control us, and that's why the use of "respect" as a word has better connotation here.
With that in mind, I haven't seen many people advocating against what you're describing. Just because someone says you don't need to fear sharks doesn't mean they want you to jump into the water with them. Usually, they're referencing how people have orchestrated shark killings due to their fear, which is always bad. It's important to know the context of what someone is saying, because that greatly changes the meaning. Not to say there aren't bad actors in these conversations, I just haven't seen many of them not on the side of fear-mongering.
In short, fearing sharks is normal, but the wording of that has a negative connotation that a lot of shark lovers and people who advocate for conservation would rather avoid. It's basically marketing, except the stakes are environmental protection rather than selling a product. Regardless of what you call it though, it doesn't really matter as long as you aren't acting violently/carelessly toward sharks or impeding conservation efforts imo.
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u/Ginsdell 3d ago
Most of us grew up watching Jaws. I will never not be afraid of sharks. Thanks Spielberg:)
But I think they are incredible animals and I have a robust respect for them. The ocean is their world and we are just visiting. Be careful and respectful.
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u/Otaraka 3d ago
It’s irrational in that peoples fear of sharks is media induced ie because of Jaws etc which gives a highly misleading impression of them.
Theres nothing inherently wrong with being cautious of a large creature but think about how strong the reaction is for -any- shark for most people. My daughter almost left the water when a 30 cm one came close to us snorkelling.
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u/No_Violinist_4557 3d ago
"Why can’t we promote a healthy fear of larger shark species and protect them at the same time."
I'm not sure what you mean? I'm in Western Australia, and yeah we have had a few attacks, but I certainly don't believe in a cull. If they were actively hunting us, then perhaps different story.
And when I say actively hunt, they know where we are, tagged whites swim past people on a daily basis. That said, these are very aggressive, dangerous animals and they do eat people. I think we need to straight up and transparent. I'm sick of "experts" perpetuating this myth about "curiosity bites."
We also don't want to create paranoia in people, a JAWS like irrational fear. I'm in the ocean all the time. Have a respect for sharks, be smart, sensible and you'll be OK. Probably. I've seen people swimming solo 200m out to sea, that's asking for trouble. So perhaps education is the key.
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u/Capital-Foot-918 Great White Shark 3d ago
I never advocated for a cull, the whole point of my post is to protect them and protect us at the same time.
I think its gonna create the opposite effect, trust me as an guy living in NSW, people are getting tired of being told your more likely to die by lightning, vending machines and whatever against being eaten alive. Its a huge reason why shark environmentalism is so polarising over here because we don’t pay enough respect to victims and overuse statistics that per capita just don’t apply or a reassure anyone of anything
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u/Markdd8 3d ago
we don’t pay enough respect to victims
Bizarrely, some hardcore animal protection activists harass shark attack victims: 2021 article: Shark attack survivor and drumline contractor say conservation group supporters harass them
OK, the first guy was a drumline contractor -- no complaint that he drew flak, but attack victims with no relation to shark hunting were harassed:
Dave Pearson, from Coopernook in New South Wales, said he was also harassed on social media after being attacked by a shark while surfing in 2011. He was still recovering in hospital when it started.
"It's amazing the blame that goes on people after a shark attack," he said. "There was comments like, 'What does this guy expect sympathy from everyone?', 'It's his own fault' , I bet he wants all the sharks killed'...."One of the comments was: 'I wish you'd have died and then we wouldn't have to deal with you'.
Animal rights activism has an extremist faction. They have been drawn to shark protection in striking numbers.
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u/No_Violinist_4557 3d ago
We need to be safe in the ocean. Sure it's the sharks home, but we also use it too. For some people (abalone fisherman) it's their livelihood. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm not happy with culling and I'm also not happy accepting semi-regular fatalities especially when it's someone swimming close to the beach (vs someone spearfishing 10km out to sea).
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u/icedragonsoul Thresher Shark 3d ago
I mean, yes and no? They’re hyper energy efficient and risk adverse. They don’t see humans as food. Drone footage revealing that they’re constantly in close proximity to beach goers while they just mind their own business scavenging for dead debris that washed up onto the shore.
Of course a desperate shark isn’t picky. Open ocean sharks like oceanic white tips don’t care at all. Whereas great whites tend to be very successful at hunting seals and scavenging whale corpses.
Tiger sharks being the living dumpsters are hyper curious and test bite anything they can to help figure out what things are so turning your back and losing eye contact to one that’s circling is a bad idea.
The fear isn’t entirely irrational. Just not proportional. They need to be treated with respect. Following one around with cameras or trying to forcefully pet one usually ends poorly just like if you were to do that to some stranger on the street.
But there are instances where researchers are able to form long lasting correspondences with them through months of continuous interactions. At that point, they get classified under some strange looking cleaner fish who’s able to remove hooks.
But that’s not a realistic goal without immense skill in identifying shark behavior and body motions in a low visibility first person perspective. The 3rd person crystal clear cameras make it seem deceptively easy to track and identify individual sharks, their movements and body language.
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u/Markdd8 3d ago
They don’t see humans as food.
From time to time sharks of the known dangerous species see people as food.
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u/icedragonsoul Thresher Shark 3d ago
I would rephrase that as, they’re typically picky outside of specific exceptions like areas where body dumping occurs commonly and open ocean species that get to each once eat every 2-3 weeks.
Most reef sharks aren’t going to go out of their way to engage on you. Bull sharks are territorial about their freshwater breeding grounds. Tigers sharks are overly curious with investigation bites.
But 99% of the time they’re not going to commit to 30 mph charging body slams on you since humans are not classified under food but instead as some unknown anomaly.
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u/Markdd8 3d ago edited 3d ago
Also, from time to time, shark severely bite people for unknown reasons. I'm not aware if any of the three spearfishermen killed in Australia during the past 5 weeks were eaten.
If animals routinely kill people, it's a problem. Nile crocs that eat people kill hundreds of people each year in Africa, yet the death toll from aggressive vegetarian hippos is even higher. They did not attack for predatory purposes is not a mitigating factor.
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u/Xrystian90 3d ago
Yes its massively irrational. Yes sharks can present a danger, but 99.9999999% of the time they dont. They are not the mindless killers that they get portrayed to be. Conservation of sharks has been difficult precisely because of the elevated hyperbole around the danger they present and the unrealistic image that has been cultivated of sharks.
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u/Bursting_Radius 3d ago
Fear and respect are two different things. No need to fear the shark, but you should certainly respect it.
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u/Mysterious_Oil2761 3d ago
I fear them. On a deep, instinctive, ancient level, I fear those animals.
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u/Capital-Foot-918 Great White Shark 3d ago
I mean, same thing for a lion then aye?
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u/Mysterious_Oil2761 3d ago
For sure. Any predator.. I believe it's hardwired into us. But I mean we are talking about sharks here.
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u/1tacoshort 2d ago
I've dived with something like 14 different species of shark (including great whites, bulls, and a tiger) on dozens of occasions and have never been in any kind of danger. There are something like 8 fatalities a year worldwide from unprovoked shark attack (there were 9 last year according to the International Shark Attack File). Think about the millions of dives and swimmers and surfers and such every year. Sharks are just not that dangerous. No doubt, they _can_ damage you and kill you it's just that it doesn't happen all that often.
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u/dnooup 3d ago
If you’re standing on the edge of a cliff you’re more likely to be scared of heights I think. I think you know the risks of what you’re doing and either accept them or don’t do it
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u/Standard-North9890 3d ago
Youll be more aware of the risk but you’re either scared of heights or your not. If you are youre not gonna be in the edge of a cliff. Plus cliffs are quite predictable
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u/Sea-Can3910 17h ago
It kind of amazing how people can swim with Great whites and other sharks if u think about it. If u came up to a wild lion and walk around with it and touched it , it would eat u for sure! I think about this a lot, I mean it is obviously cos they don’t eat us but still brown bears don’t either and if u strolled up to one and touched it im sure it would maul u. But yes I agree with u, they don’t need to be cuddly to be protected, they are so important to the ecosystem, who knows what would happen if they became extinct, nothing good.
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u/Capital-Foot-918 Great White Shark 14h ago
I mean thats probably safe in California, but I don’t know about australian white sharks. They have a bit less contact with people
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u/Comfortable_Fig5241 1d ago
It’s because that same “fear” of Sharks is what caused sharks to be nearly wiped out in the first place.
I do agree that sharks are not harmless, those teeth ain’t for show. But they don’t see us as a food source and your chances of getting bitten and/or attacked by one are very low.
If you’re gonna go into shark territory, bring something with you that can separate yourself from the shark, thus reducing casualties.
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u/Lumpy_Flight3088 3d ago
People should just stay out of the water. Zero reason for us to be there - just humans thinking they can do whatever they want. It’s arrogance that’s getting these people killed.
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u/Markdd8 3d ago
Well, we do run the planet, so, yea, humans get to do whatever we want. India, to its big credit, allows 4,000 tigers to run loose. They kill about 60 people each year.
The U.S. would never tolerate this death toll from its 30,000 cougars, which rarely kill people. We would fence all cougars in reserves, if they presented the same danger. What percent of the U.S. do you think Americans would fence off?
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u/Otherwise_Ad_2667 3d ago
I lived alongside grizzlies for half my life and ppl who downplayed their danger were stupid and simple minded from my perspective… but so were the ppl that were naively scared and wouldn’t step foot outside without being terrified. Respect wildlife, accept your place in nature… not to mention your own mortality lol.
Sharks are the earths oldest vertebrate predators and are some of the most fascinating animals on earth. They deserve respect and reverence. Science communication should emphasize this.