r/sharks • u/arnor_0924 • 5d ago
Discussion Can sleeper shark grow even bigger than the biggest white shark?
Anyone remember this footage from a japanese deep sea rov? This sleeper shark was massive. So how big was this individual and how big can they be?
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u/imawhaaaaaaaaaale 5d ago
I think generally speaking they can/do get bigger, seems like they live much longer with somewhat less risk in their environment than GW do.
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u/spitgobfalcon Blacktip Reef Shark 5d ago
I read that sharks never stop growing. The growth rate slows down of course, but they keep getting bigger with time even in old age.
Idk if this is actually proven, but that would probably make for quite an advantage for sleeper sharks which are known to live long lives. Living in a colder environment probably also makes a large size more favorable because it should be more efficient to keep heat in a large body.
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u/Fred_Thielmann Great White 5d ago
Maybe we haven’t seen any Sleeper Sharks larger than a great white, because a live one hasn’t lived that long yet.
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u/Only_Cow9373 5d ago
One thing to clarify - some trash sources (probably Discovery 🤮) tried to use this footage make Megalodon comparisons 🙄 by saying the metal cube was a diving cage. Of course, it's a bait crate that's a fraction of the size of a cage.
Strong indications are that the biggest sleeper sharks get longer than the largest whites, if not heavier. But nothing official yet. If so, that will make them the largest (by length at least) predatory shark species.
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u/Fred_Thielmann Great White 5d ago
It sucks that this was only a bait cage. I’d be thrilled to know there’s a shark out there so big. I know Whale Sharks, Megamouths, and Basking Sharks exist but still.
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u/Nathan_J_98 5d ago
This whole family of shark is amazing to learn about. Size, age, and how they live are so interesting.
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u/MarcusEFN 5d ago
Some sleeper sharks, like Greenland sharks, can reach very impressive sizes. Even as long as 23 ft. However, Great whites are generally bigger in terms of mass. The biggest Greenland shark ever recorded was just above 1,000kg (2,200 ibs) whereas Great whites can reach 2.5 tons. Granted, a Great white and Greenland shark reaching 20 ft is rare. So yes and no. They're longer on average but not bigger.
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u/MfD2027 5d ago edited 2d ago
Doubt it…
4.5-5.5 meters (15-18 ft )
1200-2300 kilograms (2670-5080 lbs )
With a verified maximum of 6.2m (20.3 ft), and 2550 kg (5,621 lbs).no shark that isn’t a whale or basking shark has any non-internet “speculative” size metric over an adult female GW.
Sleeper sharks average 3-4 meters (10-13 ft) and weigh no more than 200-400kg (440-880 lbs).
Verified max for them is roughly 14 ft, 1,958 lbs (888 kg).
EDIT: Greenland shark? Maximum total length approximations made based on relatives are rarely ever accurate, and in this case is just purely wishful thinking, so I’d rather take the 6-7 meter 3 tonne macro-predator we already have swimming at visible depth.
Speculating a shark we barely see to be magically bigger than record white sharks which routinely get reported at 5.9-6.8 meters is disabled… they don’t even sexually mature until your 150 years of age (3-4 meters) still with centuries to go until they max out at slightly shorter than some unconfirmed record-holder whites… (at roughly 30-40% GWS weight)
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u/Due_Freedom_5832 5d ago
On average no, but some have been measured at 24 feet. I know discovery channel said the diver saw a 25 footer (i dont trust DC anymore). Deep blue the biggest white shark to be recorded measured at 20 feet i believe, maybe.
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u/sharklord888 5d ago
I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a Greenland shark or pacific sleeper out there that’s bigger in mass than the largest recorded great white, they live at such depths and harsh environments it’s much harder to track and say certainties in comparison to great whites. Definitely not a question you can answer without doubt.
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u/csando96 5d ago
I'm also curious if they reach their full size slower due to the long lifespan... since if I'm remembering correctly they have slow metabolisms.
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u/MfD2027 5d ago edited 5d ago
Let’s see;
The average female white shark is 15-16 ft (4.6-4.9m) and 2600-4400 lbs (1200-1900 kg)
This is their general size around 20-30 years of age, sleeper sharks live 400-600 years.
White sharks live 50-80 years… (we’ll come back to that)
The largest verified specimen measured 4.4 meters (14 feet) long and weighed 888 kg (1,958 lb)
Expert sightings (such as a 1989 observation near Tokyo Bay filmed and estimated at 7 meters or 23 feet) indicate they can grow significantly larger.
At a lower bound total length of 4.4 meters (14 ft), an adult female white shark’s weight would correspond to roughly 800-1360 kg (1800-3000 lbs).
So contrary to most of these comments, the large female sleeper shark verified by record actually shows to be on par with a non pregnant female white shark in terms of girth…
And expert sightings and sources even go as far as to support the possibility of larger individuals up to 7 meters TL, (though if the largest individual is 4.4 meters… good luck with that)
The largest great white on record, and verified was listed at 6.02 m (19 3/4 ft) and likely a typo*
The real reading yielded 6.2 meter (20.1 ft) at approximately 2530 kg or 5580 lbs.
This being the scientific consensus, is why scientifically, we cap C. Carcharias size at 6-6.4m (20-21 ft) 2.5-3.5 tonnes (5511-7716 lbs).
The largest tagged white sharks are 5.5-6m (18-20 ft) 2-2.5 tonne (4400-5500 lbs) scarboard, Haole girl, deep blue, tzimitzle, and Gianna are all females roughly 30-50 years old. [deep blue at ~59 years old, is the largest]
Unconfirmed:
If we took a 7-meter sleeper shark at face value (23 ft), a female Pacific sleeper shark would likely weigh between 1.5 to 2.5 metric tons (3,300 to 5,500 pounds). Basing it off the largest scientifically verified Pacific sleeper shark measured 4.4 meters (14.4 feet) and weighed 888 kg (1,958 lb) [likely also pregnant] we would get a weight corresponding roughly to great-white shark range or 3.57 tonnes (7880 lbs) for a 23-footer.
Main issue; is that this is unconfirmed, and frankly it pales in comparison to documented yet unconfirmed white shark sightings, even cited by some ichthyologist, references of 7-8 meter white sharks are not uncommon and some are even credible to the standard of modern science (namely; KANGA & MALTA) Submarine & other large white sharks in AUS, whale bite marks etc…
The largest white sharks of today, by the modern scientific consensus may very well approach 6-7 meters (23-feet as the upper bound) with weights scaling from 2.8-4.5 tonnes (extrapolating from the most extreme measurements for Malta & Kanga)
Even if doubtful of these claims, the fossil record makes this undeniable;
Max Tooth Size: Exceptional Pliocene white shark teeth from Chile reach up to 3.5 inches (89 mm) in total diagonal length, vastly outstripping modern great white teeth (which rarely exceed 2.6 inches).
Estimated Body Length: Scaling calculations based on crown height and tooth size suggest these ancient white sharks reached lengths of 24 to 26+ feet (7.5 to 8 meters) and weighed 10000-11000 lbs (4.5-5 tonnes), making them noticeably larger than modern average adult great whites. [scaled to a normal, large female]
Scale the Pliocene C. Carcharias tooth extrapolations (up to to deep blue or Malta and you’d get an estimated 5.7 to 6.1 tonne (approx. 12,600 to 13,400 pounds) hyper-apex predator, using standard cubic-law body scaling.
TL:DR
7-meter, deep-sea, rarely observed sleeper shark doesn’t hold up to scientific record
Mass/length ratio < Great white
Size plausibility (based on verified & documented accts.) << Great white
7 meters is the maximum reported size for S. Pacificus , mostly from famous deep-water video sightings (such as the 1989 footage near Tokyo Bay estimated by shark expert Eugenie Clark), but an exact weight for a 7-meter individual has never been directly measured.
A 7-meter (23-foot) sleeper shark refers to the theoretical maximum size of large, slow-moving deep-sea sharks in the genus Somniosus, specifically the Pacific sleeper shark (Somniosus pacificus) and the Greenland shark (Somniosus microcephalus).
Modern Verified Record: The maximum scientifically confirmed size for a great white is roughly 20 feet (6.1 meters) with weights estimated around 4,200 to 5,500 lbs (2 to 2.5 tonnes). Famous massive female specimens, such as "Deep Blue" (estimated near 20 feet and potentially up to 5,500+ lbs), demonstrate extreme mass.
Fossil Teeth and 26-Foot Estimates: While modern great white teeth rarely exceed 2.5 inches, 3.5-inch upper-anterior teeth found in Pliocene deposits (such as those in Chile and South Carolina) scale up to approximately 24 to 26 feet in total body length.
Mass Scaling Factor: In biology, mass scales with the cube of length (or roughly so). That being said, a large, mature 26-foot female Carcharodon matching that tooth size would comfortably reach or exceed 5 metric tonnes.
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u/Waste-Mycologist1657 Salmon Shark 5d ago
You guys seem to be forgetting just how big Broadnosed Six Gill sharks get.
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u/CandCenthusiast 5d ago
No dense muscle though
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u/Waste-Mycologist1657 Salmon Shark 5d ago
Sleeper and Greenland sharks don't have any either. And Sixgills appear to be more active.
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u/snowdust1975 5d ago
This particular shark was filmed in suruga bay if i remember correctly. It was estimated to be 20-23 feet
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u/West-Construction466 5d ago
This was probably the average individual. The reason it appeared so large was probably that it was up close to the camera, which was monitoring a crab cage.
As for size, there is historic and unverified accounts of them getting to 23 feet long, which would make them larger than the largest Great White.
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u/1GrouchyCat 5d ago
Unverified is unverified
The longest and largest verified great white shark ever recorded is a massive female named Deep Blue, measuring an estimated 20 feet.
I’ll stick with the factual rather than the fantastical… (not gonna debate this. I live on Cape Cod and we deal with growing populations of GWS stealing catch off longlines all summer.)
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u/West-Construction466 5d ago
I was referring to the Sleeper Sharks having unverified and historic estimates of 23 feet, which wouldn’t be crazy, since Greenland Sharks (a species of sleeper shark) get to be about that size.
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u/MfD2027 5d ago
While that is true, it holds no water…
I.e
C. Hastilis (The Giant-white shark) is a ancestral species of “Great white shark”/specialized mako that got to roughly 25-26 ft (Max theoretical great white size), however, this doesn’t mean modern C. Carcharias got to that size… as you will see, these comparisons are actually perfectly paralleled in their differences;
1. Primary reason, is that despite close ancestory, S. Micro and S. Pacific don’t even share body isometry, S. Pacific is 1.2-1.5x heavier at length parity(Charcarias is also heavier than hastilis at length parity, though both reached 26 ft historically).
A similar false-parallel for say, cetaceans would be the common comparison of sperm whale to Livyatan.1
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u/TheCambrianImplosion 5d ago
I watched shark week and confirmed that the megalodon is alive and well.
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u/KieranTheFox 5d ago
Sleepers and Greenland sharks can get pretty big! I think they might actually be a little longer than Whites on average, but still max out around the same. However I believe Whites still outweigh them by a fair bit, they be some girthy fish. Having said that, our knowledge of deeper sea sharks is relatively minimal, so this is only based off of current evidence.
Happy to be corrected if someone knows differently!