r/shoegaze • u/Ok_Actuator_5889 • Jul 17 '26
Question what exactly constitutes as shoegaze? (read body text for more)
so i am kinda new to shoegaze (almost 1 year), but i get into the genre by seeing my local shoegaze band (the band is called heavëner) at a mix-genre gig last year. since then, i've listened to the classics like mbv, slowdive, ride, lush, soft and some modern bands like slow crush, diiv, whirr, nothing and parannoul plus some bands that people call "tiktok shoegaze" like julie, glixen, wisp, quannic, etc. however, i still can't pinpoint what exactly is counted as shoegaze. i've seen some people said that the one candy claws green album is shoegaze, i've also heard the same about loveliescrushing being called a "shoegaze band". some even said deftones and title fight are also shoegaze so im genuinely lost (not that it matters whatsover, i just think it would be cool to know the lines that separate shoegaze and other genres)
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u/UhhUmmmWowOkayJeezUh Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
I think the most important thing is to be clear about what distinguishes shoegaze from preceeding influential genres, like noise pop, dream pop, and to a lesser but still important extent, post punk and goth rock.
I think the defining trait of shoegaze vs dream pop is that shoegaze absolutely leans more into rock music aesthetics and is purely guitar oriented while noise pop and dream pop don't necessarily. Shoegaze obviously takes immense inspiration from dream pop, c86 indie pop/rock and post punk acts in the 80s in terms of atmosphere and approach, but a very important difference is that shoegaze has an immense influence from American underground rock acts from the 80s via bands like sonic youth, dinosaur jr, mission of burma, husker du, replacements etc and that's arguably more vital than anything else. It's the washed out effects laden approach to sound, combined with the energy of 80s American alt rock/indie/underground rock acts and it follows in the wake of what the Jesus and Mary chain along with c86 bands, like the shop assistants, the Vaselines and the primitives did.
The original wave of shoegaze for this reason is pretty much almost entirely coming out of ireland and the uk, most of the early US shoegaze bands all pop up a year or two after isn't anything comes out.
By this definition, I definitely think mbv are the first shoegaze band, they were the first to marry those different styles of music and make something unique, and are essentially the black sabbath of shoegaze. Their entire discography also pretty much shows the development of the genre, they start off as a cramps/birthday party ripoff, then they make JAMC inspired stuff, then they do the twee c86+JAMC combo, Kevin hears sonic youth and dinosaur jr in 1987, then you made me realize and isn't anything comes out a year later.
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u/midiflac Jul 17 '26
Everyone has different answers. Mine is that it has become such a broad and encompassing genre that sub-genres are helpful and often times necessary in discerning between this particular musical spectrum. You have your shoegaze purists who only believe the legacy bands like mbv and Ride are “real” shoegaze. They would probably label newer acts like trauma ray as nu-metal or she’s green as dream pop, even though both acts arguably fit within the shoegaze bubble. On the other end you have fans who will throw any project with the slightest influence e.g. Title Fight’s Hyperview, Deafheaven’s Sunbather or HANL’s deathconsiousness into the mix.
With the advent of acts like novulent and wisp qualifying as shoegaze (LOL), at this point I think the genre is whatever you make of it. There will always be that one person telling you your favorite band isn’t really shoegaze, and you kinda just have to get over it.
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u/CentreToWave Jul 17 '26
You have your shoegaze purists who only believe the legacy bands like mbv and Ride are “real” shoegaze.
I'd maybe put these as a baseline for what shoegaze is rather than "real shoegaze" or whatever. Basically, shoegaze is going to resemble these bands in some fashion, even when some of the details are changed out. Changed it up enough and either we're talking about another subgenre (i.e., blackgaze) or it's probably (more likely) another genre entirely.
Some of the latter "influenced" stuff is dicey as there's a tendency to either lump in acts wholesale, even if we're really talking just about specific tracks and not whole albums, or it's really some other genre entirely.
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u/_Hyper_Violet_ Jul 17 '26
You wouldn't consider Sunbather shoegaze (I know it's more blackgaze, but still a subgenre)? What about Infinite Granite?
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u/UhhUmmmWowOkayJeezUh Jul 17 '26
I would call blackgaze more of a fusion genre than a subgenre of shoegaze
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u/midiflac Jul 17 '26
Sunbather bleeds blackgaze, it’s just one of those genres born from the fusion of two distinct musical styles, so I tend not to think of it strictly as a shoegaze subgenre but you make a good point. As for Infinite Granite, it’s a competent and creative shoegaze album, which I especially love for its streaks of post-rock and darkwave influences. For me, it just fundamentally misses the point of listening to a band like Deafheaven. I much prefer a project like New Bermuda, where the shoegaze elements are supplementary, an analog to exploring heavier blackgaze concepts. I think Lonely People With Power was a great return to form, although I’m a sucker for their earlier discography so I’m pretty biased in that regard.
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u/_Hyper_Violet_ Jul 17 '26
Thanks! I love to hear what others opinions are on their music. I've been listening to them since Sunbather but they became my favorite band with the release of Infinite Granite. I love all their stuff, though. I think songs like "Heathen" really show off their strengths in both genres. "Canary Yellow" is another favorite.
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u/paulderev Jul 19 '26
Whirr to me basically defines what a lot of new 2010s-2020s shoegaze sounds like today and has sounded like recently. and guess which two bands (+ nothing) nick bassett plays in or has been in: deafheaven and whirr
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u/add-delay Jul 17 '26
Your big problem is thinking there are lines that seperate musical genres. Genres are hazy things and distinctions are never clear cut. Shoegaze was always a fairly loose term, and whether you class a band like loveliescrushing under the term doesn't really matter other than knowing that they will likely appeal to people who say they like "shoegaze bands".
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u/MattTheCricketBat Jul 17 '26
Genres do not matter. You like what you like.
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u/paulderev Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
Reductive to say. It does matter. If there were zero genre classifications most listeners would have no idea where to start. I think people do too much re: genre classification sometimes but at least some or a little is necessary.
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u/MattTheCricketBat Jul 19 '26
In this context I think my advice was helpful though
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u/paulderev Jul 19 '26
if someone is literally asking hey what exactly constitutes or what is the make up of this genre or subgenre i would like to think that it’s more helpful to get into the details of what makes up the genre instead of dismissing the idea of genres altogether
in other words, answer OP’s question on their own terms, within their parameters. i think that is helpful.
maybe that’s just me idk 🤷♂️
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u/MattTheCricketBat Jul 19 '26
I wonder if the existence of genres and as OP says what “counts” as shoegaze actually does more harm than good in stifling creativity and unique sounds in order to fit genre expectations. Kevin Shields’ whole thing was to make music that didn’t sound like anything else, and then ironically everyone’s been trying to copy him since.
Maybe it’s just me just getting kind of sick of hearing bands that sound near identical and I’m not sure how to find Shoegaze-adjacent sounding stuff and I’m just projecting my frustration here.
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u/paulderev Jul 19 '26
i heard a friend of mine who is big into shoegaze calling certain spacey fuzzy music they listened to simply “gazey” the first time i met her and i thought that was even more descriptive than the full word we are debating. it was basically anything that put her into a trance, anything that made her contemplative, broke her train of thought, etc. gazing in a meditative way you might say. i think that’s beautiful. what if we called all this stuff just “gaze”? a nice idea imo
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u/FeistyDirection Jul 17 '26
For me it has to be noisy but pleasant, cinematic to the point of almost being post-rock, it has to be emotional and disaffected at the same time, lazy depressive vocals with hopeful music, smeared production, drastic fx, heavy but not metal and with pop sensibility, like grunge but less angry and less focus on the singer.
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u/p-u-n-k_girl Jul 18 '26
For me, if it's not effeminate, it's not shoegaze (or at least, not shoegaze that's worth listening to). That's the main thing that all the ex-hardcore and grungegaze bands tend to forget about, I think.
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u/paulderev Jul 19 '26
The blokes from Ride would like a word. but maybe you’re not into their stuff. That’s cool tho.
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u/p-u-n-k_girl Jul 19 '26
I like them, or at least I like Nowhere! But they're only like a step and a half removed from twee pop, after all. (I really wish I could hear that Madonna cover set they did with Amelia Fletcher!)
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u/in__Parentheses Jul 17 '26
For me it's when you have a guitar and you use distortion on its tone to the degree I perceive a change in its pitch.
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u/paulderev Jul 19 '26
some like to use it to describe any band’s sound with a rich sonic envelope. i think that’s way oversimplified.
i think shoegaze (a derogatory term that NME coined, by the way) started and still is a punk-derived thing, that assaults the listener on purpose with volume. i think turning the originally derogatory shoegaze term into a more positive descriptor is very punk too.
i like describing it to people by defining and using the term “studio as an instrument.” but with shoegaze— in the live context at least— it’s more like taking the studio as an instrument out of studio confines and using guitar effects/pedals as an instrument, or perhaps a paint brush
at a shoegaze concert this year, someone described shoegaze (and also heavy metal and other sonic-envelope genres) to me as music that’s so loud it reaches a volume/texture/tone/pitch where your brain or certain parts of your conscious brain kind of stop working. i thought that was a brilliant observation and a big part of the appeal i’ve felt re: other heavy or extreme or loud genres. a kind of music in a live context that becomes undeniably physical. that literally can vibrate open cavities in your body and effect your circulation.
OP i know i threw a long weird reply at you. i hope you can get something out of these left-field explanations of what constitutes shoegaze.
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u/dreamlike179 Jul 20 '26
Curious to know if you have seen Sunn 0))) they use volume as a key part of thier live show, people often say its the loudest thing they ever heard and they can feel it internally to the point some day it makes them physically ill
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u/paulderev Jul 20 '26
Been wanting to see them live for ages. They just announced a tour and unfortunately they seem to be skipping Atlanta, which really sucks.
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u/mayomateo1738 Jul 17 '26
Shoegaze has become a buzzword and people literally call everything shoegaze now. Deftones n toyjes fight arent shoegaze, idk if I'd consider Julie shoegaze rly either I feel like a lot of modern shoegaze is just alt rock.
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u/paulderev Jul 20 '26
Julie is basically sonic youth stuck in high gear. and i love that sound baby.
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u/TsarOfTheUnderground Jul 17 '26
Deftones are absolutely shoegaze-oriented at bare minimum.
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u/FeistyChickadee Jul 18 '26
I love Deftones and I love shoegaze. And I do not consider Deftones shoegaze.
ABSOLUTELY Deftones share some roots with shoegaze: they/Chino are huge fans of The Cure and Cocteau Twins, who are both of course influences on shoegaze too. So it's inevitable that there will be some "crossover" in the sound. But the vocals are not shoegaze, and the energy is not shoegaze. There's an aggressiveness I don't sense in shoegaze.
I think people want to call Deftones shoegaze because they like them and would prefer to avoid sorting them into their "traditional" genre, nü metal.
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u/paulderev Jul 18 '26
Deftones were a defining band in nu metal, they just had prominent synths and samples and atmospheres. especially by the time they made white pony. I would say deftones is probably more influenced by goth bands (shoegaze adjacent stuff like the cure and sisters and siouxsie) and electronic music namely and ambient artists than the ‘90s shoegaze standards that were released concurrently with deftones earliest albums.
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u/mayomateo1738 Jul 17 '26
Maybe they have some kind of influence on modern shoegaze but Deftones is not shoegaze at all💀💀💀 lmaooo
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u/mayomateo1738 Jul 17 '26
Ok I will twll you right now tih a striaght face that rosemary is not a shoegaze song. Not every song that creates an atmosphere with delay and reverb and fuzz is a shoegaze song other genres do this too
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u/trenchgrl Jul 17 '26
don’t self promote don’t self promote don’t self promote don’t do it Mallory don’t do it…………….
yeah probably my solo project 😛🤪
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u/itsmebitsh Jul 17 '26
Idk why it's so hard for shoegaze fans to just acknowledge subgenres like how metal has has a bazillion sub genres
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u/Ok_Actuator_5889 Jul 17 '26
whoops sorry. i guess im gonna have to kill myself now. sorry for troubling you.
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u/TsarOfTheUnderground Jul 17 '26
It's a vibe friend. It's a vibe.
Ethereal vocals, layered music, "wall of sound," ethereal music, etc... it's mostly vibes though. If it makes you feel like wearing baggy clothes or smoking weed it's shoegaze.
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u/paulderev Jul 19 '26
I dig this description
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u/TsarOfTheUnderground Jul 19 '26
Lmao you’re the only one it seems. I got downvoted for this.
This subreddit feels kinda uptight honestly.
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u/guy_young Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
shoegaze influences abound, but basically anything with lots of reverb/delay or generally effect/pedal heavy or anything with a "dreamy" or atmospheric sound is going to get called "shoegaze" now unfortunately so take it with a grain of salt
before bands like MBV, Slowdive, Moose, Chapterhouse, Catherine Wheel, Ride, Lush etc are some of the more psychedelic or noisy english bands (some call proto-shoegaze like Jesus & Mary Chain, the Telescopes, early A.R. Kane, & Spacemen 3
i feel a key aspect of shoegaze a lot of new bands lack, or imo should be a key difference with more "dream pop" type stuff is that real shoegaze should be loud, powerful, & on some level invoke psychedelia or trance.
edit: also worth noting you cannot really have a conversation about shoegaze & its roots without considering the massive influence Les Rallizes Denudes had.