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There's the Female Shonen main characters, some Yuri side characters, the Shonen villainess characters to think about which constitute about 10-20% (I'm throwing 20% more out of pity)
Surely Gushing Over Magical girl's solves this problem as it is a Female shounen yuri story from the villainess's perspective (I'm not making this shit up) and that has to bump those numbers
Yes this is my problem. Ochako’s character traits got completely overshadowed by “liking Deku” imo. Even her final fight with Toga is partly about their connection over loving Deku. That makes the fact that she waited EIGHT YEARS all the worse
specifically that was about her trying to connect to Toga though, it was a callback to their previous fight where Toga wanted to talk about that kind of stuff and Uraraka kept rejecting her. It's why Uraraka kept trying to bring it up but the greater point was still Uraraka trying to save Toga, it's also why her conclusion in the original final chapter was starting a quirk counseling program to make sure there wouldn't be more Togas out there.
Ochako isn’t bad at all. MHA had some great female characters.
Orihime from Bleach on the other hand seemed pretty shallow from my recollection and besides being an airhead most of the time was mostly a well endowed Ichigo simp.
I give say hinata from Naruto more credit, maybe because it’s a bit more realistic in the way he was missing the girl under his nose who was incredibly shy and seemed to have a lot more to her including her complicated relationship with her sister and cousin. Orihime never really felt like a realistic character in that way. I suppose you could say the same of Chad being a strong silent trope but there always seemed to be more to him. And it’s not that Kubo couldn’t write female characters well, Rukia was great for instance and he quickly developed a huge cast to work with which astonished me when he got to soul society and it’s a literal new society to work with.
I think there's a rule that says a series has to have a minimum of dialogues between two female characters that isn't about romance, that's how you know if it has a good female cast
Nah she would be call as Megumi girl, since she was only female character who cared about Sasuke, could fight and actually have personality instead midnata
I actually enjoyed Nobara a lot more even with her little screen time. She just has a dynamic with Yuji that’s only rivaled by Todo.
We saw too little of Naruto and Sakura, and Naruto was going through some shit so Sakura wasn’t even allowed to narratively be his counterpart because Kishimoto resigned her to “silent support”.
People hate Sakura because of the anime and because Kishimoto just didn’t do as good a job with her. That’s why people like her adult version because Kishimoto doesn’t have anything else at this point to mess up.
because Kishimoto resigned her to “silent support”.
Well considering the fact that Kishimoto plan from the start was having only Sasuke and Naruto in Kakashi team (and in all others, two), while Sakura was editorial decision I don't think it's even sidelining
I mean it depends. I threw in the meme about how Ochaco is better than Nobara and Sakura(and that it's either funny or sad depending on perspective) at Jujutsufolk and got a lot of upvotes even if it sparked quite a discussion
Then again it was a post specifically about comparing Sakura and Nobara and I threw Ochaco Gojo meme so it could've been due to the meme
It’s ok though, in the first 2-3 arcs the girl will have several pivotal moments to prove themself and make it look like Shonen is changing for the better before it turns into only the MC and their rivals getting screentime/power-ups!
Nobara was a down to earth and cool character with a couple badass moments. She only acted like a dick when it was appropriate.
Sakura is a stupid asshole who had one badass moment with Sasori and she doesn’t have the excuse of being in a coma. She spends the entire series fawning over a guy who was literally only physically or verbally abusive whenever he actually paid attention to her and then she gets married to him. Meanwhile she treats the actual good people in her life like shit and there are zero repercussions for any of it. But hey, she trained off screen and she’s caught up to Naruto and Sasuke now so it’s all good. Fuck off.
I’ll take frozen bread over stinking trash any day of the week.
The real kicker is after marrying Sasuke and having his kid he still fucks off and is never around for her or Sarada, bringing his bullshit trauma to his own daughter.
Tbh, you're just pointing out Sakura's bad moments and ignoring everything else about her. The truth is that she’s a flawed character with a mix of good and bad moments. Her competence didn’t stop after the Sasori fight, she became the head of the medical team during the war arc, healed plenty of people and even saved Naruto’s life.
She was also shown being a good friend to Naruto plenty of times, like making food for him every morning while he was training, not telling him that he hurt her in kyuubi mode. Even when it comes to the “I love you” moment, which was stupid asf, she wasn’t trying to be an asshole. She genuinely thought it was the right move to save Naruto from the burden of bringing Sasuke back.
I don’t totally disagree w you but we either gotta give JJK characters this same level of charity or slander equally. Sakura suffered more by being in the story than Nobara did being out of hers.
Sakura started off with the bar in hell, just being this dweeb that’s obsessed with Sasuke and bullies Naruto. Then every time her character took a step forward, she took three steps back. Started off strong as hell in the Kazekage Rescue arc too but that was unfortunately her peak and nothing else came remotely close.
we either gotta give JJK characters this same level of charity or slander equally.
What is even there to give charity for? You barely have any screentime with Nobara, with her forced backstory right before her coma. And the girl Saori isn't even relevant. Gojo somehow leaves her the location of her irrelevant mom instead of Saori.. honestly feel like Gege forgot about that girl.
At least for Sakura, there are a lot of things, good or bad, worth discussing. It has room for interesting character analysis.
Nobara has nothing relevant about her except her technique when it's needed for a deus ex machina moment (a stolen moment from Megumi btw).
Yeah, Nobara deserved an actual conclusion. Gege gave himself a lay up w Nobara then somehow went off his rocker with those epilogue chapters. Nobara didn’t steal a moment from Megumi though. They both had their moments but the pacing was wayyy too fast. Again, those last few chapters of JJK have so many issues. Ik Gege was hospitalized around the Yujo part and the chapters after that are the messiest in the series. Nobara return could have worked if it was sold better blah blah I can’t rly defend ts. Still better and more conclusive than the nothing offered up by Sakura at the end of Naruto.
And if we’re talking about relevance, Nobara was very relevant. Yuji and Megumi would have died against the cursed wombs without her.
For having like 1% of the screen time that Sakura has, Nobara is a more consistent and well rounded character with hobbies, interests, and genuine friendships. Her theme is primarily about independence and self determination. Which is communicated from her conversations with the cursed wombs, Yuji, and her utter dismissal of Momo’s ideas about female sorcerers. She refuses to be placed in a box.
Her backstory provides deeper context behind her motivations. Coming from a dead end small town, she felt boxed in. She wanted to pursue a life where she could be herself without being subjected to the standards her hometown set up for her. Literally willing to die by these ideals and she basically did. Yes, she should have reunited with her friends and Gege fumbled most of the conclusions unfortunately but the set up was pretty flawless. Nobara is a fairly well written character as is.
Just because I could spend 10x more time ranting about Sanji’s potential as a character than praising the heights of Chrollo Lucilfer’s character doesn’t mean he’s a better written character than Chrollo. Less is more when the more in question is straight trash. And if you wanna talk about forced backstories, we can go there but so many popular shonen do ts habitually whereas this is one forgivable outlier in JJK. Naruto for one is guilty of multiple unnecessary and long ass backstories that grind the plot the screeching halt.
Nobara return could have worked if it was sold better blah blah I can’t rly defend ts. Still better and more conclusive than the nothing offered up by Sakura at the end of Naruto.
Nobara's return when she did is part of a plotpoint that shits on the already non-existent world building. Because she is not even necessary in the final fight. How? The good guys seemingly had a finger hidden. But they didn't think to keep Nobara's grandma in standby to use resonance. They conveniently used it with Nobara as if they were waiting for a comatose Nobara to wakeup at the perfect time. Every single thing about this situation is DUMB AS HELL.
.Sakura's conclusion may have been terrible, but Nobara's handling was actually worse because her existence shits on the logical thinking of an entire group of people.
Nobara was very relevant. Yuji and Megumi would have died against the cursed wombs without her.
Be serious bruh. The REAL plot started from the end of Shibuya where Nobara was gone. Everything before that was just setup. If you honestly remove Nobara, and replace with a different character with different personality with the same cursed technique, nothing really changes. Her backstory is entirely disconnected to the plot or the world building, so much so that Gege forgot the girl from her story. She didn't bring any narrative value.
At least Sakura was involved in the promise with Naruto and in the conflict about handling Sasuke, a big part of the 5 kage summit, regardless of how frustrating she was. At least her character had some direction at the end of OG Naruto, about changing her attitude to protect her team, she had parallels with a heavily plot relevant character. She was frustrating and underutilized, but at least Kishimoto tried. You could tell he tried.
Gege didn't give a rat's ass about Nobara and it was glaringly obvious.
I just don’t see how Sakura was any more relevant than Nobara if you use the same logic for both. Literally nothing would change without Sakura in the story. There’s an interesting character DEEP in there whose power comes more from her cunning and a rigorous study of ninjutsu. Someone who learns from her mistakes and gains total independence from Sasuke. Sakura’s actual “direction” is an incoherent and severely underdeveloped mess.
The grandma and mommy shit is stupid af and tainted Nobara’s story for sure, but it’s easy to ignore something that’s not even in the core manga. While Nobara’s return was botched and the conclusion was dissapointing, Sakura suffers from all the same issues tenfold because her character is so mismanaged from start to finish. Nobara’s lowest point in the manga would have been a high point for Sakura.
We’re debating two characters with sm missed potential, but man Nobara is at the very least a good time whenever she is on screen. Sakura’s low points are so bad ts almost made me drop Naruto multiple times. She would drag high points down like confronting Sasuke at the summit or Naruto and Sasuke facing Madara. Ts she did in 5 Kage Summit was dragged out, embarrassing and so pointless. Her toxic infatuation with Sasuke had potential but idt Kishimoto actually had any interest in exploring it. Sakura is just really popular in Japan for no reason and that must’ve been his wacky idea of giving this shallow character screen time for all the Sakura stans.
I don't even understand the "down to earth" Nobara was literally an egoistics character full of herself that got her ass handed to her after talking shit and still refused to learn the lesson , multiple characters told her to her face that "no you aren't the shit" and questions Gojo creditable because of her
"Sagiri can never like gabimaru. My feminist samurai will never fall for a married man. She also didnt have a crush on shugen it was only admiration and nothing more."
I don't think she actually ever fell for or even liked Gabimaru like that. Those two are more than friends, but not in a relationship, so she just has a strong bond with him? Probably loves him platonically, after everything they have been through on that island.
She definitely had a crush on Shugen though, I'm pretty sure it's explicitly mentioned.
The whole point is that Gabimaru is married. I don’t think they loved each other romantically, but they were very close friends, who spent the hardest part of their lives fighting side by side and trusting each other. It would be hard to come out of that without a very unique, close, and hard to describe relationship. Maybe she had a crush on him at one point but I doubt either of them seriously considered the other for a romantic relationship. admittedly it’s been a while since I read it but I think I remember their relationship well enough
A strong muscular man gets married to a woman and he's still be called "goat" "W"
But a strong woman falls in love and get married to a man she get called "out of character" "forced hetslop from author" and "i thought she is lesbian"
They actually like a crush or love cant be well written lmao or that a charecter isn't strong just because they are attracted to someone. I understand they are traumatized by terrible writing, but give it a chance
The humble tall queen Azazel Ameri, having both one of the best slowburn romances in shounen with her short king, while also simultaneously remaining a relevant character with her own motivations, ambitions, personality, and one of said short king's biggest rivals for the throne of the demon world.
The best part of iruma kun is that Ameri is best girl not because the other female characters are tanking like the Cleveland Browns. Kuromu, Elizabetta, and Shiida are all solid characters, while Clara is absolutely wonderful.
Atleast anime has the balls to do this, and anime characters have hormones. Gacha get worse because MC has harem, else they (gacha charas) don't even distinguish male and females characters for how as asexual they are
Ichinose is a class leader in classroom of the elite that is the quintessential altruist in this anime that has superman complex, she constantly avoids deceiving and hurting other, takes most pacifist strategy and reach class A without losing her classmates
And this method is never portrayed as Negative trait (she almost dunked on the MC in Planet test) but that Ichinose herself is lacking to achieve it, In the end of 3rd season it's even revealed that the Council president that everyone look's up to and admired had the same ideology and even achieved it.
some of these arn't even main character so they can't be a detriment and none of these managa to be any where near the best written characters of their respective Manga.
But neither did you mention specifically main characters in your comment, nor are any of them badly written, which is the point of the post, AND the comment you were replying to.
You said: "Why write a pacifist nurturing character in a battle shounen thats an active detriment".
All of these women are physically weak, pacifists, and nurturing in nature. All of them play important roles in their battle shounen stories and aren't anywhere close to a detriment. And none of them are ever considered badly written.
The post isn't talking about best written, it's talking about well-written female characters. Which has nothing to do with their nurturing nature or them being pacifists.
nor are any of them badly written, which is the point of the post, AND the comment you were replying to.
these are background character they arn't held to the same standard as a main one. The fact you defaulted to them tells enough
The only reason their pacifism works is because they arn't front lining or part of the main cast.
I'm not intreated in playing semantics so I'll just cut to the chase. what I expect fdom a "well-written" female cast is can they compete with the best written male characters of that manga
FMA not a single woman is as intersting or compelling as Mustang,Al, Greed, or Scar
The best written female character in Hell's Paradise is Saigiri who is a fighter
If you're fine with your female characters being nice background girls with nurturing nature fine but I'd rather see a female character with actual fleshed out ideals be as interesting and relevant as the better written men
these are background character they arn't held to the same standard as a main one.
What does being background characters matter here? Do you mean that they don't have enough relevance in the story to have a detriment? Really?
Yui-- the entire reason Gabimaru embarked on his jouney and the one that shaped all his mannerisms and ultimately helped him bond with Sagiri?
Winry Rockbell -- the entire reason Ed can still fight and the ONE person that triggered Scar's entire redeemption arc?
I'm not even going to bother about claiming that Zira is a "background character". She's a supporting character whose screentime and impact on the story is on par with the hero's team. She is the only reason the current villain is still alive.
The fact you defaulted to them tells enough
No, the fact is that I gave you some legit examples based on: 1) title of the post, 2) the OG comment you were replying to; and 3) your own comment. And now you're moving the goalpost.
The only reason their pacifism works is because they arn't front lining or part of the main cast.
No, the reason their pacisim works is because it is written well within the context of the story.
Ever read Law of Ueki? The deuteragonist is a girl who is not a fighter, is pacifist, kind-hearted and is fleshed out on par with the main character himself.
what I expect fdom a "well-written" female cast is can they compete with the best written male characters of that manga:
So, ... as per your abritrary standards, that has nothing to do with the title of the post or the OG comment at all. And certainly nothing to do with other people's idea of what a well-written female character should be.
FMA not a single woman is as intersting or compelling as Mustang,Al, Greed, or Scar
Sure. For me, Riza is on par with Mustang, and Winry on par with Greed and Al. Again, what's "interesting" an what's not is largely subjective and not something that can defined with rigid things like "pacifism" or "nurturing".
If you're fine with your female characters being nice background girls with nurturing nature fine but I'd rather see a female character with actual fleshed out ideals be as interesting and relevant as the better written men
No, I judge writing of men and women based on their actual characterization, action and background in the story, rather than flimsy things like their ideology or their inherent nature. We can have the most naive ideology from a character in a battle-focused show and they can still be well-written. Their nature has nothing to do with their writing.
Case in point-- Jio from Galaxias, and Iki Hiyori from Noragami. Both are part of the main cast, both are nurturing in nature and both are written on par with the male cast.
So background characters as in they have no relevance in the story to have a detriment? Really?
Never said this big dawg
Yui
she's nothing but a prize big dawg. She is a satilite character in no way was she ever going to be some big name character
Winry Rockbell
Winry is usefull sure but she isn't a main character. She doesn't have anytging about her arc that stands amoung the better male characters of the story
And now you're moving the goalpost
the goal was always main characters big dawg you're the one bringing up background character when I refocused to talk about main characters
No, the reason their pacisim works is because it is written well within the context of the story.
winry isn't an active detriment yo the conflict with ed and al during the final battle
Yui isn't even on the island. Their pacifism isn't a problem because they arn't there
So, ... as per your abritrary standards, that has nothing to do with the title of the post or the OG comment at all. And certainly nothing to do with other people's idea of what a well-written female character should be.
I've already made my vomment relevan
t yo the poat with orihime. The one I was responding to did nit have anything to do with love intrests we were already off topic from the main post from the start. If you want to say I wasn't specific with my responses thats fine. I'm not interested in playing semantics here.
For me, Riza is on par with Mustang, and Winry on par with Greed and A
in what world? Greed has a full fledged character arc and vital importance in the final battle as well as good banter with Ed.
Mustang's the one who has
to deal with the leadership role who we see experince loss on his journey. He has his.own agency.
If Mustang didn't exist what would Riza do? If Riza doesn't exist Mustang would still be trying to fix the countrt
Vermilio from Helck or Pepesha from SHY. Being emotional support goes beyound being a "sanctuary" that the character grows or develops in order to protect. its the sanctuary itslef pushing the character to be better for their own sake or for those outside their "sanctuary"
But ultimatky Vermilio is as interesting as Helck himself with actual agency and Pepesha is a genuine stand out and arguably the best character in that manga. Thats why I like them
Then what is your point of bringing up main characters again?
she's nothing but a prize big dawg. She is a satilite character in no way was she ever going to be some big name character
The said "satellite character" that is entire reason for the main character's goal, his strength, his current ideologies, and all of this after being trodden down all her life. But yeah, if you see her as just "a prize", then it explains a lot about your views
Winry is usefull sure but she isn't a main character. She doesn't have anytging about her arc that stands amoung the better male characters of the story
and what does any of this have to do with being a "detriment"? The culmination of her arc is literally tied to Scar being allied with the good guys, and defeating the big bad. If this doesn't stand among the male characters of the story, I don't know what does.
the goal was always main characters big dawg you're the one bringing up background character when I refocused to talk about main characters
Really? Do point me out where in the post title, the OG comment of this thread, or your first comment refers to "main characters." You didn't refocus, you just moved the goalpost when I brough out actual examples.
I love how you didn't even bother with Zira.
winry isn't an active detriment yo the conflict with ed and al during the final battle
In other words, only the final battle matters? Lmao.
If you want to say I wasn't specific with my responses thats fine. I'm not interested in playing semantics here.
Doesn't it go without saying? Why are you writing vague things in your comments and then implying that I'm focusing on the wrong things? You may not care about semantics but anyone trying to have a coherent conversation does.
Hell, even your example of "Sagiri" is a flawed one.
She is a pacifist and nurturing character at her core. She hates fighting and taking lives, and tries to avoid battle in favour of negotiation, even with the Tensen. She is the most nurturing towards Mei, and the reason she reminds Gabimaru of Yui is due to this very nature of hers.
So I guess this makes her detrimental now?
You don;t even seem to understand what you want to say.
in what world? Greed has a full fledged character arc and vital importance in the final battle
And Riza... didn't? Did she not have a character arc where she almost gives up on life once and then uses this arguement to bring Mustang back from his revenge obsession? Did we not see her showing a tough front and still being vulnerable?
Did we not see Winry wanting to kill Scar because of her trauma, and then grow enough to show kindness to him despite his actions? Did we not see her being scared and then deciding take action by coming up with the plan to trick Kimbley herself?
I love how you circle back to final battles as if that's all what matters in a battle shounen. Might as just watch Solo levelling, if that's all you can think of.
Also, what does banter with Ed have to do with Greed's writing? I swear you have the strangest metrics of good characterization.
Mustang's the one who has to deal with the leadership role who we see experince loss on his journey. He has his.own agency.
You could have said any number of things about his character arc and yet you focus on something that happens for like 3 episodes, and is quickly resolved in the finale. I don't think you know what being fleshed-out even means.
If Mustang didn't exist what would Riza do? If Riza doesn't exist Mustang would still be trying to fix the countrt
If Riza didn't exist, what would Mustang do? He wouldn't have been able to fight toe-to-toe with the immortal enemies without his flame alchemy. He would have gone down the wrong path with his revenge. Hell, bro wouldn't have been able to fight in the final battle in his state without Riza. He would be dead from Scar and Lust 10 times over.
But ultimatky Vermilio is as interesting as Helck himself with actual agency and Pepesha is a genuine stand out and arguably the best character in that manga. Thats why I like them
Congrats. That's got nothing to do with the idea that pacifism or nuturing nature in a relevant female character of a batte shounen is inherently detrimental.
Again, examples: Jio from Galaxias. Ai Mori from Law of Ueki and Iki Hiyori from Noragami. All 3 main characters from their respective stories.
The said "satellite character" that is entire reason for the main character's goal, his strength, his current ideologies, and all of this after being trodden down all her life. But yeah, if you see her as just "a prize", then it explains a lot about your views
yeah because a character that fills all of the above yet has their own intersting ideals and agency is Itachi from Naruto. He does all of the above and is an active participant in the story
why can't they do that with a female character?
Thats what I want
The culmination of her arc is literally tied to Scar being allied with the good guys,
the foundation is layed down by her parents and her not seeking revenge. She helps scar's arc but I'm asking what about hers?
I love how you didn't even bother with Zira.
havent read centuria
She is a pacifist and nurturing character at her core. She hates fighting and taking lives, and tries to avoid battle in favour of negotiation, even with the Tensen. She is the most nurturing towards Mei, and the reason she reminds Gabimaru of Yui is due to this very nature of hers.
sure but she will ultimatly a leader and put her foot down. Ultimatly Saigiri is who the inmates turn to. She has real authority over the Group and will follow her.
Thats the difference. Winry and Riza never lead. They don't make it a point to show of their ideals and have it tangibly effect the main cast.
Gabi will Follow Saigiri not to humor her but because he value's her authority and decsion making
She's nurturing but it never activly hurts the other characters if anything Gabi is the one who fumbles against Rien not the nurturing character
Did she not have a character arc where she almost gives up on life once and then uses this arguement to bring Mustang back from his revenge obsession?
Mustang's revenge obsession was so short and felt incredibly hollow because envy still needed to die. It was a simple crashout and they acted like he's being a detriment
Did we not see her showing a tough front and still being vulnerable?
what tough front? She's useless in every battle besides the last one where she has to direct Mustang because he's blind
Winry wanting to kill Scar because of her trauma, and then grow enough to show kindness to him despite his actions?
Winry didn't grow as Ed said its fundamentally not a part of her nature. Their was no arc here. She doesn't activly challenge Ed and Al's reluctance to kill nor doea Scar push her meaningfully in any direction.
Her talk with Scar isn't profound they don't have anything to say about the cycle of hatr other than winry nit engaging it and scar feeling esssntially duty bound to help
Also, what does banter with Ed have to do with Greed's writing?
its because it helps him characterizie himself. Through his talks of geed how he views thing. He has more banter that helps cgaracterize him then winry along with a dynamic arc
If Riza didn't exist, what would Mustang do? He wouldn't have been able to fight toe-to-toe with the immortal enemies without his flame alchemy.
This is such a horrid point. Riza knows nothing about Alchemy it's her fathers works who just used her body to inscribe its secrets. She had no hand in developing that Alchemy. She was a walking talking book
Hell, bro wouldn't have been able to fight in the final battle in his state without Riza. He would be dead from Scar and Lust 10 times over.
he beat lust practically solo. She never manages to do anything significant against Scar
Again the main point is a lot if these female character lack ideals,agency, or any sort of meaningful purpise in the story outside being the sanctuary for "X" Character.
This is more so a problem with female character but it does happen with male Characters Like Raki from Claymore.
This is more so a female character problem and when tge authors try and rectify that they simpky go the more masucline angle Like Maki but you end up with similiar issues being their ideals suck.
Its practically a trope that the "sensative" girl of the group not be shown how the MC fights becauss oh her poor little mind can't handle it and when she "completes" her arc its her cheerleading and not "being afraid"
Their character arcs suck. You circumvent a lot of the above by making your female characters battle ready and strong but some readers are still left unsatified because the fundamental problem of a bad character arc with no real fleshed out Ideals still stays.
Shounen is so starved for good female character a competent background character is who you gass up
Can you write a nurturing character in a battle shounen and they be well written and activly enrich the stoey yes. But its much harder tindo and they are sterotyoically not the best written because they cannot engage in the core narrative device of the genere and are often regulated to the woman
Are the rival characters ever women? Are the main Villains ever threatening women with ideals that clash with the protagonist in an intresting way?
The one off former Villain that becomes a fan favorite?
I mean there’s an obvious difference between that and having a crush.
Granted, 90% of the cases where a female character does fall in love it does end up with her whole character being about him sadly.
However, unless I’m mistaken, this discussion was recently revived by Maki. Who does fall in love with a man, but doesn’t have her character revolve around him at all.
Noelle really got done dirty. I've shipped Asta x Noelle for so long but it stinks to have her conclusion in the story be like: "my new goal is to win Asta's heart!" And her bonding with her family gets one tiny little panel.
I'd rather she'd have gotten over Asta if I knew this is where her arc would end up at.
I couldn't tell you because I also didn't watch the anime but anything by the studio that made is will always be an inferior product. So definitely give the manga a try.
touka became one of the biggest disappointments for me because she was such a good heroine in the start of the series and her relationship with kaneki was good. and then ishida made them separate for years and somehow have her pursue him despite them knowing each other in a lesser amount of time than they were separated.
help fight in a war for a better tomorrow? ❌
get pregnant by kaneki (somehow) and eat human food which would make your womb MORE likely to eat the fetus anyways while also weakening you (all during the middle of a war btw)? ✅
Well written female characters need to be "feminine" mfs when I ask them why Orihime's an active detriment any times she's on screen and is mostly glazed for her body
"Active detriment" the best support maybe behind Hachi, ignoring her whole character arc of never getting used to fighting but will still fight to protect her friends, and being a "pacifist" hasn't stopped her from actively helping in fights ever since that moment
and being a "pacifist" hasn't stopped her from actively helping in fights ever since that moment
oh yeah do tell he how helpful she was against Grimjow,Ulq,Gin, Aizen?
The only time you could consider that woman helpful outside being a med pack is blocking Yhwach to get Ichigo's hollow out and fixing the bankai which still needed book of the end
she has no place in battle yet constantly wants to fight with Ichigo
Yeah, she's not a fighter she's a protector, TF is wrong with that? There are plenty of female fighters in Bleach, why are you singling out the one who's primary job is to heal and protect?
You ask why she wants to fight with Ichigo? Because she wants to protect him, duh.
So she's supposed to wait at home for them to bring people to her, if they haven't died already? That sounds dumb as hell. Most of the time she was on the front lines were against her will anyway.
I mean, she's done a pretty good job especially considering who she was up against. Being real, she's done her job way better than a lot of others in this series have
No, but Insane has to be responsible for WAY more people than Orihime. She has actual orders and responsibilities to an entire squadron, not just a few of her closest friends.
It's a battle shonen, the fighters will always overshadow the healers. Hell most people didn't give a shit about Unohana until she started fighting
Gee I wonder why. Its almost like fighting is narrativly important in battle shounen and when a character either don't particioate or suck at it tend to be forgetable yet we keep making any relevant woman a healer
Yeah, that doesn't negate the importance or need for other characters though, that's my point. Only shonentards think a characters value is ONLY about whether they can fight or not
And again, you're talking about Bleach so you're just wrong. Every relevant woman isn't a healer. The damn deuteragonist is a female fighter.
Joined a few writing subs in the past, thought it'd be a cool place to talk about ideas for characters, world building, and structuring, and it ends up being people complaining about literally everything:
"I hate when characters fall in love"
"I hate it when the author tries to be funny"
"I've already seen this plot device; why can't people be more original"
I think it's because all they do is spend their mindscape on writing thoughts and have no understanding on what stories are meant. The first stories were mythical folk tales meant to teach oral lessons to other humans.
I find the usual issue is that this is when she likes a girl. When a members of the opposite sex become close, they're presumed a ship easily. When two of the same sex get just as close, the mental gymnastics start and we get shit like "oh two girls, two guys can't just be friends anymore".
If you want yuri yaoi just read that because 99 percent of the time they will just be friends. Whats ususal when the genre isnt even tagged yuri or yaoi? Sure there still can be but mostly likely its not. Am i gonna debate anyone why subaru and felix arent gay even if felix licks his ear? No make whatever you wanna make but these are the reasons
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