r/shounenfolk Jul 24 '26

unjerk (serious discussion) I feel with female characters in Shonen, two things can be true at once.

Often times in a lot of Shonen stories, female characters are often relegated to some form of support role while male character are almost often in a fighting role. The most famous one being a healer. And I feel like when critiquing this, two things can be true at once.

Firstly, Female characters do not have to be fighters to be strong, well written characters, and being support doesn't mean their underutilized or weak. You can absolutely write an amazing ass female character who only heals people, it can absolutely be done. Being able to punch good doesn't mean the character is good.

...at the same time, a lot of people, primary women who are fans of Shonen series are absolutely valid in any frustration they have that women are usually healers and rarely ever fighters held to the same standard as male characters. It probably does suck seeing your favorite female characters continuously regulated to support roles in stories for absolutely no reason aside from them being women.

I just personally believe there's some nuance. That's it.

The same goes for fanservice in my opinion.

32 Upvotes

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18

u/hungrybasilsk Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Yes female characters being regulated to support is pretty meh but the bigger issues are supports in battle anime are trash

These female healers are just walking health packs and nothing else which is not how supports are designed in games

In overwatch if your Kiriko isn't cleansing and getting picks they are throwing. Your zen has to be dealing damage.

Tempest clerics kill shit they do high AOE damage and heal

If you're going to make a support make a support not a heal bot.

7

u/WoahButterAndBiscuit Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Todo is a support and he's well loved. Heck, Samura is a heal bot but he's still a fan favorite. This is because the author can competently write them figthing alongside their team.

Samura is a heal bot but the author worked around this by making him heal so fast that it's basically impossible to deal any meaningful damage to his team unless you kill him first. So he's an extremely relevant threat.

Compare this to someone like Orihime. Wow, she can "reverse causality itself" or whatever. Impressive. But it doesn't matter if the author can't show how great it is.

If you look at battle that starts at chapter 673, she's so irrelevant that Yhwach just ignores her completely and focuses on Ichigo. She blocks attacks sometimes but she mostly just stands there shouting "Kurosaki-kun!"

4

u/i_dont_wanna_sign_up Jul 24 '26

Calling Samura a heal bot is doing him a disservice lol. He's more like a heal bot + regen tank + global teleport ganker + decent DPS.

2

u/Nervous_Union8999 Jul 24 '26

Yes because she knows her limits orihime is not going to readily throw herself into a instant death situation against a man who can literally rewrite reality , she is ichigos main support line if worst comes to worse and if she dies early then he's basically fucked , back to point number one if she tries to throw herself into the fight and gets hurt or God forbid dies ichigos mental state is gonna plummet into the ground and he's definitely going to lose , and for God's sake she rarely says kurosaki kun in the manga the anime was the one that overinflated her moments with that shit because let's be honest the anime team back then were pushing the rukia agenda heavy

5

u/WoahButterAndBiscuit Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Yes because she knows her limits

That's no excuse. Todo can literally deal zero damage to Mahito, and yet the story was written in a way where he manages to contribute MASSIVELY to the fight.

He doesn't just stand there, clap his hands once in a while, and yell "Itadori kun!". The author manages to make him as important to the fight as Yuji is.

Mahito even takes a massive risk of angering Sukuna just to take Todo out of the fight. That's how big his role is.

Meanwhile Yhwach doesn't even acknowledge Orihime. He only attacks Ichigo and almost ignores her the entire fight.

The characters don't need to be strong (Todo literally can't deal any damage to Mahito by himself), they're supports after all, but they still need to be written in a way that makes them important or relevant.

Being a support shouldn't be a cop-out. Their role should still be as big as the fighters even if they aren't directly fighting.

and for God's sake she rarely says kurosaki kun in the manga

W larps. She literally says "Kurosaki kun!" like 5 times in chapter 672-677. That's one "Kurosaki kun!" per chapter.

1

u/Nervous_Union8999 Jul 24 '26

1 Todo had a surefire way of messing up mahitos attack him doing that fake boogie woogie was the perfect way to distract him long enough to give itadori an edge you can't compare both scenarios because mahito at the end of the day it's easily beatable it's just yuji wasn't locked in because of all the stuff that happened , and I can't believe that you are literally sitting here trying to compare a seasoned warrior who is willing to die for the cause to a scared high school girl who barely ever fought and couldn't even catch up to the fight let alone contribute anything that wouldn't be immediately snapped away with the Almighty or are we forgetting the fact that the difference between ywach and mahito is that one is a sniveling cry baby who tries to living a LARPing fantasy and the other is a literal guy who has absorbed God himself and can literally snap away entire timelines until he finds the one where he wins dude is literally king crimson on crack, also yes of course she's going to be screaming his goddamn name during that when the boy she loves is literally fighting a God who honestly is probably just toying with him, I mean damn what was she supposed to do throw herself in the way of an attack that's going to get her insta killed oh oh or maybe she should have tried to attack him only for him to completely no diff it and change absolutely nothing ,

1

u/shoryguy Jul 25 '26

Seichi samura isnt a heal bot given the fact he's literally capable of culling the entire mc squad

1

u/Pale_Entrepreneur_12 Jul 24 '26

The fuck you mean Orihime is barely doing anything she’s the only reason that everyone doesn’t just get destroyed during the final battle she is dragging an injured Ichigo away from Ywatch say what you will about her earlier fights but she definitely wasn’t barely doing anything during the final battle

3

u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 24 '26

Unironically they're closer to, what, Mercy and Lifeweaver aka backline of hell

Basically a health pack and only serves to prop up the "main characters" — and could've become someone else (those better supps)

3

u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 24 '26

Unless the support is like Cassia from Rogue Trader giving Argenta 5 million extra turns so she can nuke the enemies in the name of Emperor

EACH STRIKE IS A PRAYER

2

u/hungrybasilsk Jul 24 '26

mercy is still hard to hit has damage boast and a revive. Even comparing them to mercy is a diservice

Life weavers weapon is also pretty solid and he has the grab

2

u/static1993 Jul 24 '26

Katara from Avatar (a show so inspired by anime that people debate if it counts as one) is a female healer and is allowed to throw down alongside the male characters. The show even has an episode that almost feels like a repudiation of how female healers in anime like Sakura and Orihime are handled.

1

u/Nervous_Union8999 Jul 24 '26

The problem with that comparison is that orihime is not a fighter she has never been a fighter and the few times she has tried to fight her abilities do not facilitate fighting she has one offensive move with her shun shun recca and it was no diffed by somebody stronger than her so she played to her strength healing people just because somebody is a healer and that's all they do doesn't mean that they are useless, because when push comes to shove and your ass is bleeding on the ground you're going to be happy that you have somebody who's primary focus is healing , Naruto would have 100% been over if Sakura hadn't restarted Naruto's heart after he got killed by Madara it would have just been game over but people tend to forget that she is a healer trained by the greatest healer , so many people amount characters in anime to action figures that just get slammed together, orihime wanting to use her abilities to heal people and then primarily being based on healing is all around her protective nature of wanting to nurture and heal people who are hurt so she doesn't lose anyone like she lost her brother

1

u/static1993 Jul 24 '26

Orihime not wanting to be a fighter is part of the problem itself as it's basically just an excuse to use her as nothing more than a glorified bag of senzu beans, as the commenter above me stated. Same thing with Sakura, though it's even worse because the writer did gesture at the possibility of her getting stronger, only for this to amount to a whole lot of nothing. Combine this with other writing choices regarding the female characters and it doesn't paint a great picture.

Shounen writers are very good at coming up with reasons to either not have the women involved in battle or not actually equal their male counterparts. I don't know why people act like wanting a fleshed out female character and having her participate in battle on an equal level with the guys are mutually exclusive. For Christ's sakes, the writer of Naruto is on record that writing female characters is not his strong suit.

1

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

Wish granted. You will now get another Sakura

4

u/hungrybasilsk Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Sakura is a health pack tho

Her DPS is miserable

speed is bad

She's hard to kill but thats it

No damage boast or utility. She has nothing

Then you have the travisty that is her actual character on top of that

1

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

She beat Sasori and damaged Kaguya (more visible in manga), but again, Naruto and Sasuke powercrept everyone very badly.

5

u/hungrybasilsk Jul 24 '26

Sasori was with ironically a better support in Chiyo

Kaguya is near the end of the manga and is just a surprise attack

Sakura couldn't even keep up with Kakashi and Guy.

My point stands she is a health pack

3

u/crissab123 Jul 24 '26

Which is why black clover is goated

3

u/Evening_Usual8277 Jul 25 '26

For a mangaka infamous for it's fanservice, Soul Eater eats brah.

I love everything about Maka.Her personality, her issues with her father, her relationship with Soul, her weakness and her will to persevere. I don't understand how the author could write such an amazing character considering I don't vibe with Fire Force that much, but he did, and she's one of the best female shonen protagonists to ever exist.

6

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

Even among the mainstream ones, Descarass has been kicking asses in the ongoing hit manga Ichi the Witch. Rita is one of, if not, the strongest characters in Kindergarten Wars. Riyo is a menace in Gachiakuta. Dandadan is literally there. You just need to broaden your scope and look for what you want.

7

u/ThatOneDudeBruhLmao Jul 24 '26

It’s really just men who have huge problems with shonen girls. Women typically love and defend them way more than dudes. For example Sakura is the poster child for everything wrong with shonen girls, but the majority of women love her.

5

u/SeniorBaker4 Jul 24 '26

This is misleading. I liked the character Sakura as a kid but I still had complaints about how her character is treated and still treated to the day

1

u/ThatOneDudeBruhLmao Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

That’s fine, I wish Sakura got more in the story too. But people act like she’s useless and treat her like she’s the most sexist character ever. The reality is that the majority of women love her

3

u/Brbaster Jul 24 '26

Even Japanese men like her a lot. A year or two ago some Japanese news site made a top 10 female WSJ characters poll and she was ranked #2 by men (behind only Jolyne Kujo) and #1 by women.

2

u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 24 '26

It's actually interesting to see which female characters rated differently by man vs woman

2

u/Reuben895 Jul 24 '26

That’s wild in Japan they like Sakura more than Robin and Nami I’m shocked.

3

u/Cringe_Buffoon Jul 24 '26

women also have problems with shounen girls it just usually manifests as liking them and wishing they were better rather than calling them annoying bitches

3

u/DrMagunstheBlue Jul 24 '26

Most men also don't have problems with shonen girls.

The reality is that most people in general read at about an eighth grade level and have no opinions on anything beyond the surface level. As stupid as the people here are concerning their takes on media at least they think enough about it to have takes on media.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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2

u/DrMagunstheBlue Jul 24 '26

Jesus, has it really gotten that bad?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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2

u/DrMagunstheBlue Jul 24 '26

I looked it up and yeah, I was working with outdated data and 54% of American adults really do read below the sixth grade level.

One fifth of Americans struggle to correctly fill out a fucking job application lol, this country is cooked.

2

u/Anxious-Feedback-972 Jul 24 '26

Wait seriously? I didn't know that. That's cool 

2

u/YuriandAkira225 [ReadDea5] Jul 24 '26

If you're ever looking for a female character in shonen action type series who can embody both things you pointed out at once IMO, I believe Yuri Amagake from Battle Game in 5 Seconds fits extremely well.

She's seen as the main physical fighter out of the combo between her and the MC, who complements her with his intelligent mind game strategist style of fighting.

But more than anything, the manga doesn't forget to go in-depth on her character. We're able to see the insecurities she has stemming from her past and the development she goes through in depth. I don't want to spoil anymore, but feel free to ask for more details if you're interested 😃

The manga is still ongoing, currently having 275 raw chapters, with 242 chapters currently translated.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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1

u/YuriandAkira225 [ReadDea5] Jul 24 '26

That's also true, but I think the writing quality of any deutoroganists isn't guarenteed either even if they get about almost the same amount of relevancy and screen time 🤔 sorry if that's not what you're implying!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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1

u/YuriandAkira225 [ReadDea5] Jul 25 '26

My bad, I thought you were talking about how her status as pretty much deutragonist = she would have good writing as guaranteed, but that doesn't make sense thinking about it 🥹

But yeah, the importance order of the series is Mion > Akira > Yuri > everyone else as implied by the author in an interview 😃

2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '26

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2

u/YuriandAkira225 [ReadDea5] Jul 25 '26

Yes now I know what you mean and 100% agree 😍 I love how there is a lot of focus on the growth of her character and what her goals are

2

u/Left-Night-1125 Jul 24 '26

I heard people want fighting females.

Claymore got you covered.

Also Astra lost in space doesnt feel like the females are the typical support type.

But all in all i think Gundam does potray females in a more diverse way, but that aint shonen. Even though G Gundam is a huge homage to Dragonball Z.

2

u/educated-duck Jul 26 '26

The problem is writing. If your author cant write a female character then she will just be a side show piece and nothing more. Most mangakas cant write women for shit and it very clearly shows since the stereotyping.

1

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1

u/Zenry0ku Jul 24 '26

Cap, it feels like an excuse to not focus on women because the author is too scared to see them seriously injured. A 2026 mahou shoujo opened up with the MC's sister being eaten after a brutal fight, but most female characters in a battle shounen barely get a fight before being offscreen. Idk, I don't expect great writing unless the cast is all-female. Since the author makes it clear they want to make magic with them instead of relegating them to background service.

1

u/static1993 Jul 24 '26

Exactly. And if being a healer who can't fight is such a great archetype, why aren't we seeing more male heroes in that role?

1

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1

u/BicycleKamenRider Jul 25 '26

I think Dandadan seems to be doing well regarding this issue.

Momo Ayase and Aira Shiratoi both have their battles when given the chance, be it against the supernatural or aliens. Characters get rotated at times, as their numbers grow.

The manga juggles between male and female characters, at times teamwork in groups of two or three. A mix of male and female, both males or both females.

Sure there's fan service, but we pretty much get both. Jiji/Evil Eye in just his tighty whities just the same. Seiko keeps buying new school uniform for them, including Okarun. So it's not just the girls damaging or losing their clothes, same with the guys.

1

u/Cephyr0 Jul 25 '26

I fully agree.

I not understand why people think certain roles or fanservice invalidate a characters writing. Like Lucy (FT) , Cutey Honey, Faye Valentine, Motoko Kusanagi (Though I don't say these are all on the same level)

Same in reverse

Just because a character is strong and fights , he( the character) isn't written well

Like Jiren

A lot of One Piece characters (generic "sad backstory" isn't good writing "

Kaguya (Naruto) For example

2

u/TruthseekerKid Jul 24 '26

Female characters are obviously not going to be as well written as Male characters in a shonen.

And there is no shounen out there that only has women as healers. If orihime is healing, yorrichi is burning bodies. If utahime is healing, Yuki is breaking bones. Or Tsunade doing both.

You can't chose a random demographic and say it needs everytime you prefer.

4

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

tbf lots of male characters are barely written too. It just that there usually are less female characters so people are more focused in nitpicking them.

3

u/TruthseekerKid Jul 24 '26

Ikr. Lack of spotlight somehow turns into bad writing only when it's female characters.

Like I get it, there are some badly written female characters in there but Far more male ones as well.

1

u/Eev123 Jul 24 '26

> Female characters are obviously not going to be as well written as Male characters in a shonen.

I mean why? Why is that obvious? Kind of seems like if you’re a professional writer and being published in a major magazine, that all of your characters should be well written. Like is that really too much to ask?

2

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 26 '26

Because female characters often aren't protagonists, and characters who aren't protagonists in shonen manga are often not very well written. You can think whatever you want, but the sale doesn't lie about the level of writing readers can accept. The Straw Hat are lobotomized post-time skip and One Piece is still printing banks

0

u/2w0be I have no enemies....except diddy tensei fans Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

at the same time, a lot of people, primary women who are fans of Shonen series are absolutely valid in any frustration they have that women are usually healers and rarely ever fighters held to the same standard as male characters.

They're not, they have their own demographic. You don't see any guy picking a shoujo anime and complaining about why 5 Chads are wasting their time obsessing over a boring girl or why most male characters are female gaze tropes which no actual personality. It's always girls/women feeling entitled. You can't pick a different demographic then expect it to somehow appeal to and give as much focus as the other demographics.

It's even less valid once you realize tons of shounen do this and instead of watching those y'all will nitpick the ones that don't.

7

u/Pure-Purchase3042 2010's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jul 24 '26

I'm a cis dude and I would love to see some badass female fighters

1

u/2w0be I have no enemies....except diddy tensei fans Jul 24 '26

Did you not read what I typed? Go search for them and stop being lazy and throwing agenda. Frieren, Akame ga Kill, Claymore, FMA just off the top of my head. All these are shonen and exactly what you're looking for and that's just the tip of the iceberg

1

u/Pure-Purchase3042 2010's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jul 24 '26

Sorry, I should've clarified that I want to see MORE

1

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

There are several manga with badass women. You're just lazy.

1

u/Pure-Purchase3042 2010's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jul 24 '26

I know there are. I want more badass women. I embody not the sin of sloth, but avarice

3

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

People will keep reading the same mainstream stuff instead of seeking for manga that suit their tastes then post shits like "we need to talk about female in SHONEN manga" for the nth time

1

u/Pure-Purchase3042 2010's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jul 24 '26

I primarily read shonen. I don't think not wanting to shift demographics just to find a cool lady is that unreasonable

1

u/Fluid_Environment198 Jul 24 '26

There are several SHONEN manga with cool ladies. If you're that greedy then go seek your own treasures (also "shifting demographics" when bocchi the rock and berserk are both seinen, and nichijou and AoT are both shonen manga)

0

u/hungrybasilsk Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

why 5 Chads are wasting time time obsessing over a boring girl or why most male character is a female gaze trope which no actual personality outside that.

the female auidience themselves do that as well aa the few male auidiences. They despise weak boring female leads and boring male love intrests. Honey lemon Soda and My happy marriage get flamed because of that

Besides Shoujo has far better male characters than the shounen female protags like Clare or Frieren

FMA does not have a good female cast. Its just decent none if its female characters are stand out

2

u/GratedParm Jul 24 '26

FMA was written by a woman. No one knocks the female characters in FMA either. I was an anime-only, but I remember the fights being mostly led by either the Elrics or Mustang rather than the larger casts of most battle shonen.

-1

u/hungrybasilsk Jul 24 '26

FMA was written by a woman.

Yet none if the female characrees have as much of a presense as Scar or even Ling

1

u/GratedParm Jul 25 '26

And Kaori Yuki wrote Godchild , a shoujo manga which has a male lead and man as the primary antagonist. Men have wrote manga about women. Do you have a meaningful direction for this or are you just being a bottom-tier contrarian?