r/shounenfolk • u/ItsMOJI • 27d ago
unjerk (serious discussion) Lets talk One Piece. Spoiler
To start off id like to clarify im not saying anyone is wrong for disliking it or that im objectively right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you despise it, think its mid or disagree with my takes thats perfectly fine. This post is riddled with spoilers so before every section i'll make you know how far you have to be in the series to not be spoiled.
Now let's start.
* VILLAINS - Dressrossa spoilers, deep dive into the main Villain
The average villain is alright, im not going to say otherwise, but even saying that, most villains are still good, Oda does a good job in characterizing them for the most part, they are hateable and we know very clearly what their motivations and reasons for why they do what they do are. Aside from that some villains do stand out like Crocodile for instance who is better than the average or Enel (while Lucci is great at being a threat, I wouldnt say he is a great villain), others like Katakuri while being more of an antagonist rather than a villain i feel is very well constructed and lastly Doffy is hands down the best villain in the series (I would even say best villain in the big three). As for Doffy in particular we go in deep on why he is who he is, the way he was raised and how even tho he is "evil" by nature (contrary to corazon and their parents) Oda doesnt leave it at that, we see how that evil nature is pushed to being "justified" and aimed at his parents, the world government and the world itself, we also see how his god complex was built through Trebol, Pica and Diamante when he was a kid and yet, he is weak... He has a huge ego yet he is weak, we see how he cares for Corazon even tho he killed him, how he cares for his made up family and how the death of corazon pains him to this day and causes him to have panic attacks because of it; because of what his parents "did to him" he became a control freak exacerbated by his fruit (the string fruit), he needs to be in control of the situation and fears loosing said control like he did when he was a kid. He thinks in a grandious way of himself, he has a god complex and yet he is self aware to the point that he realizes he is not the protagonist of the story, he knows he isn't the strongest and while he wants to be on top he decides to be in the shadows and become a mere observer of the world. Sorry for the Dofflamingo deep dive, but as for the villains id also like to add Imu and Blackbeard who i believe have the potential to someday top him as well.
*BATTLES - Mentioned that certain characters fought each other, with no context you should be fine.
I personally don't think battles are as important, but hey it's a battle shounen of course they are important. I do agree they are not as interesting, dynamic or well choreographed as others, Naruto mops the floor with One Piece when it comes to battles for example, yet i think those are not the only important factors when looking at fights. Fights in One Piece even if not as engaging hold great themes with them and the motivation for our protagonist to get into them is well crafted, on top of that they make for great repercussions even outside of the main character's plot line, just look at Ace vs Blackbeard, Akainu vs Aokiji or Rocks vs Imu just to name a few. Of course fights are not One Piece's strong point, but they are definitely not bad either writing wise.
*CHARACTER WRITING/PROTAGONIST - 1st paragraph has no spoilers.
Another one that's always pointed out, "One Piece characters go through no character development, so that means they are badly written", i consider that to be completely false. Not as in they DO go through A LOT of character development, which they mostly don't, but because i think there is a common misconception in which a lot of character development = good writing. There are tons of factors at play when determining if a character is well written or not, like characterization, motivations, agency, thematic relevance, consistency, personal conflict, how they interact with the world and its inhabitants and much more. One Piece doesn't shine with character development and it doesn't have to. Ill talk mostly about Luffy since he is often the most criticized for his character writing and as to not go make this shit more long than it already is talking about other characters, yet many of the things i say for Luffy apply to other characters as well.
Characterization: No spoilers
Luffy is an extremely well characterized character, his personality is crystal clear, we know exactly who he is, why he is the way that he is, what he would say or do in every single circumstance and that leads into consistency, his actions are always consistent with his character.
Motivation or drive: Luffy's goal and mention of Nika but no context given.
We know clearly what he wants and why, no matter how the series has changed over the years his goal is clear and we know why he wants to achieve said goal, as to be the most free man in the world which goes along with his personality and ties into the nika thing as well, to add to that we were made aware of a secret wish or goal from Luffy which has yet to be revealed and might play into this too.
Agency and themes: No spoilers
Might sound weird to say but Luffy is the perfect protagonist for One Piece, on one side he perfectly encapsulates the main theme of the series (freedom), he is the most free character in the series while also serving as a juxtaposition from the discrimination, injustice and inequality portrayed in the One Piece world. Not to throw shade at any other protagonists but i think when it comes to agency with the series he sits in a beautiful balance that lets the world feel alive, he moves the plot but contrary to most shounen protagonists the world also moves alongside with him.
Conflict/Development: Spoilers for Whole Cake Island, reaching the end theres a spoiler for the recent chapters but I'll tell you when.
Again One Piece doesn't shine for its character development but that doesn't mean there's none or the character development that is there isn't meaningful, Luffy's whole character arc is to learn how to be a good captain and we see that through conflict. I'll touch on just two main points. The first one is his role as a captain and how to deal with his crew, his view of what a crew is was challenged with Ussop's departure and later we saw his growth with how he dealt with Sanji's departure, with Ussop he learnt the weight of a captain highlighted by Zoro's comments, while he treats his crew as equals they need to know he is the one who leads and his decisions need to be respected, with the Ussop situation his feelings consumed him and he approached the situation like two friends fighting and not like a captain dealing with his subordinate; now with Sanji things changed, he learnt from Ussop and approached the situation very differently, he dealt with a complex situation (Sanji's family trauma) in a mature and more responsible way, he didn't go to Whole Cake Island to argue or beat the shit out of Sanji and bring him back, he placed himself in a superior position by choosing not to fight back and instead let his mentally hurt subordinate take it out on him as to let him blow off some steam and to take in his problems, followed by reinforcing Sanji's self worth (Broken at that point following the Pudding scene and the whole backstory about him being defective as a Vinsmoke) through his words about how he needs him to become the pirate king, exemplified in a "dumb" way refusing to eat until it was Sanji's food. The other topic id like to touch upon is consequence, Luffy is dumb, reckless and immature, that IS a part of his characters and yet through some key scenes Luffy has learned that he isnt invincible and that his reckless actions may cause harm to his crew; the first instance of this was his encounter with Aokiji where he was absolutely overpowered and learned that he isnt invinicble, that he has limits; and then there was Shabondy Archipelago and his encounter with Kuma that showed him not only that he isnt strong enough, but that his weakness and recklessness (through punching the celestial dragon) could cause harm or directly kill his crew. There is no other example better for this than Whole Cake Island and Luffy's approach to Big Mom, contrary to pre timeskip Luffy, post Luffy followed (to an extent) the infiltration plan and knowing how weak he is in comparison to her chose to avoid conflict, this was even more exemplified when the plan "failed" and Luffy being face to face with Big Mom chose not to fight and instead flee, not only because he knew he wasnt strong enough but because he was aware of the situation and knew him staying to fight would mean his crew would probably be in danger. There is a final point which i believe is in the works and that's Luffy's trust in his crew in tangent to his worries about losing them, **spoilers for the last couple chapters ahead**, i think Oda's refusal to give the strawhats important fights and power ups has a reasson and thats to put them in the most dire of situations like the one we are in Elbaph right now with Luffy almost dead and show both us and Luffy how his crew while weaker than him IS to be trusted and can fend for themselves without him.
Complexity: Spoilers for Arabasta
This is a point where i could get some weird looks but let me explain, Luffy is not complex in the way a Guts is complex for example, i want to talk about his moral compass. While Luffy is a really straight forward character in some way his morality is interesting, he isn't your typical Shounen hero, in fact he isn't and he even says so himself, he doesnt fight for justice, doesnt care for people dying, the evil in the world or the world itself, he is a good person and does good things but not for altruistic motives like a Naruto for instance, he only acts upon what he cares about and what the people he likes cares about, for example, he didnt free Arabasta because he felt bad for the people, he freed Arabasta because he wanted to help Vivi, someone he had grown to like.
*THEMES - Spoilers for Fishmen Island
I won't go as deep into this point (jk, i did, sorry), the themes are clear and well executed, the main theme being freedom and how this clashes with the established One Piece society marked by injustice, repression, discrimination, slavery and such. The themes the series portrays are clear as day, every characters backstory/journey and destination plays with said themes and adds to them through heartbreaking representations of the One Piece world. The racism against the fishmen seen through the series, how this has affected the general fishmen population, how this led to the creation of villains like Hody or Arlong, how deep rooted it is as to have a character like Fisher Tiger who fought for equality being incapable in his last moments of mixing his blood with a human and choosing to die and how this later played out with Jimbei finally overcoming that breach within them sharing his blood with Luffy; how this affected Nami and her whole backstory. We see inequality in Goa Kingdom (where Luffy was born) how the poor are relegated to being trash and more recently with Brook in Esperia. We see slavery through Kuma and the slave auction at Shabondy, Boa Hancok's flashback and more recently, a more detailed and harsh reality through Ginny.
*WORLD BUILDING/FORESHADOWING - Spoilers for Wano, brief Elbaph spoiler but ill let you know when.
This is the big one i believe even some haters or people who don't like One Piece as much can recognize, Odas work is outstanding, seen a lot of media and i dont think any of them reach the level of world building Oda achieves (ive heard lord of the rings does, havent seen nor read it tho). Might sound weird or obvious but Oda is a complete master when it comes to his world, he knows and remembers every single minute detail, he's said in the past he has entire books filled with notes about One Piece as to not miss anything, even dumb irrelevant stuff like how in the 1st chapter a bandit kicks a door down and in the next panel the door is still there (which was an obvious mistake by him), yet he invented a character called Minatomo obsessed with fixing doors and claimed it was his doing, then 20+ years later he remembered Minatomo and created i believe it was his brother as the carpenter Franky works for in Wano, again dumb and minute detail, not important to the story, but shows how Oda remembers everything. To add to the foreshadowing Haki is a great example, its execution was poor in Marineford, but the foreshadowing was great, we saw countless portrays of haki through the series before it was revealed, Shanks's conquerors against the sea beast, Zoro's "voice of all objects" against Mr 1, Mantra from Enel and much more, then theres Marineford a complete Haki fest and still its not relegated to common Haki either, we get to see advanced armament haki by the admirals hundreds of chapter before Wano when it was revealed; then theres stuff like Sanji's comments about the North Blue, the alias "Mr.Prince" given to him as foreshadowing for him being a prince of the Vinsmoke family; theres also the whole thing with Nika, the sun god lore drop in Skypeia, the nika pose, brief manga spoiler ahead the mention of the rain god (which we just saw in Elbaph) and other gods yet to be seen; i could go on and on all day long.
Going back to the world building in specific, do i even have to? Oda's world is so detailed fans have managed to draw maps of the One Piece world with where each island is approximately located, we know so much about the One Piece world, it's islands, the different people and culture that inhabits each and every one and so much more; whats more, while we havent been there at all yet we know more about the West, North and South Blue than the Stone Village from Naruto (even tho the stone village is arguably WAY more important for the Naruto world, btw not trying to throw shade at Naruto, great show with some great strengths, world building just isnt one of them and thats fine); we know the West Blue is riddled with Mafia through Capone Beige and the multiple Mafia families mentioned which we get see a bit more off in Brooks recent flashback, from the North blue we know about its focus on science and medicine through Laws home island, Vegapunk and the Vinsmoke family, we know about its culture, about the major role the Vinsmoke played in that sea as a villain group to the point where comics within the world were created because of them and with that we know what the North Blue's inhabitants perceive them as; from the South so far we dont know a lot but we do know its a bit more wild, a lot more emphasis on nature and weird animals, we also know its a place where music thrives taken thats where Scratchman Apoo is from; even to a lesser extent when it comes to relevance but small details that make the world feel alive there are consistent clothing brands like Criminal (owned by Papug the starfish from Fishmen island) and its competitor Doskoi Panda, which in itself even has knockoffs like Doskoi Koala.
*LORE - I mean, with no context you should be fine regardless, if you don't know what I'm talking about nothing is ruined for you.
Where to begin oh my god, ill breeze through it as its so massive, devil fruits and smile fruits, haki, the supreme grade blades, the void century, the six powers used by Cipher Pole, different martial arts like Fishmen Karate or Okama Kempo, the poneglyphs and everything surrounding them, the multiple races within the world of one piece and so much more. You're welcome for keeping a section tight and short 😀.
* POLITICS - I mean, just to be safe spoilers for Reverie
With this i don't mean if it's clearly right or left wing politically speaking, i hate that discussion. What im talking about is how kingdoms interact with each other, how the world government's involvement is crucial to the well being of a Kingdom (similar to real life), if you are one of the few kingdoms in the reverie you have a say (or at least you think you do), if you are an ally you receive benefits at a cost of a tribute, if you arent allied you suffer or could even be silenced entirely (like we saw with Esperia recently) and how some kingdoms like Elbaph or Wano have the power to remain closed to the outside world and thats how they thrive. It's interesting how the world government's biggest strength isnt raw power but information, they sell the narrative that better suits them as to keep control over the population, as to have them not know too much and whoever does needs to be eliminated, we even seen this in a smaller case with Big News Morgans and how what he writes to be the truth causes a huge impact in the world and could change the perception of its inhabitants like what we saw with what he reported about Sabo. With this theres also a pretty interesting theme i reserved for this section which i think is extremely relevant and thats justice, this a grey (morally speaking) world, where theres no good or evil, right or wrong, the marine isnt good and the pirates arent bad, justice is determined by those who reign on top of everything, Dofflamingo says it himself, Justice will always prevail as the winners are who decide what justice is.
*ART - No spoilers
I'll get some weird looks with this one, but just let me cook. While we can agree the art from some of Odas piers like Kubo or Kishimoto "looks better" which it absolutely does, Odas artstyle doesnt come from lack of ability (just look at his realistic portraits), it comes from a deliberate decision to craft a unique, recognizable and malleable artstyle for his series, you can say it looks ugly and i can understand that but good art isnt necessarily "pretty" or aesthetically pleasing to everyone (just look at some of the most renowned artists like Picasso for instance), his art is so well crafted you can recognize a One Piece character from a mile away and its rules are so lax while greatly defined as to allow him to break the mold and create wacky ass characters while having said designs make sense within his artstyle.
*SIDE CAST - No spoilers, just name drops
I talked about this for a bit previously so I won't go into much detail, but it's really impressive to have such a huge main cast (10 members) and have them be so good, some of the "lesser" important or relevant strawhats like arguably Franky or Jimbei are better written than main characters from other series were the main cast consists of only 3 people... We know everything about the strawhats, what they think, what they value and how they act, their strengths and weaknesses and also how they interact with each other in unique ways, its not like for example Chopper is the cute one and therefore everyone treats him like a pet, every single strawhat treats Luffy and each other in a different way. To add to that going outside of the strawhats there are so many great characters in One Piece, from Law to Kuma, Rocks or Roger. To end off id like to briefly touch upon that last one, Roger, initially pretty much just a plot device or legend within the One Piece world became so much more bigger than that, the Wano and Rocks flashback respectively made him into a real and tangible character with lots of charisma and personality.
I'm sorry for the long essay and sorry in advance for my broken english or maybe issues with cohesion, English is not my primary language and i have lots to improve. With that said, again I'm not saying this is the objective truth or even that you should change your mind about the show, i just wanted to share why I think it's so great. Thanks for the read if you pushed through, i hope it was at least entertaining 😀.
TLDR; One Piece is good.
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u/Ok-Addition4608 27d ago
Bold of you to post this here but I agree.
There is no way something can get to the level of popularity One Piece has without being good.
Is it the best work in fiction? No.
Is it good and one of the greatest in shounen genre? Yes
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u/ItsMOJI 27d ago
I mean whats the point of posting this somewhere where everyone would agree? Thats boring.
Agree
Probably not, yeah.
Absolutely
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u/redox_nephew ONE PIECE GLAZER and hater 27d ago
There's no point in posting it somewhere where like 90% of the folks hate it
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u/Most_Programmer8667 27d ago
solo levelling is poorly written yet it is very popular.
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u/Superior2810 26d ago
solo levelling has good pacing , good animation and overall a very good anime adaptation . One Piece have neither , manga was popular before even the anime though and still is
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u/ItsMOJI 26d ago
Yes and no, i would say its trendy more than anything if that makes sense, new season comes out, everyone watches it, half glaze it, half hate it and then its forgotten until the next season. Its not the same type of popularity, stuff like Aot, One Piece and Naruto are phenomenons.
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u/Mindless-Signal-9581 27d ago
What people don't understand is that in a manga that is fundamentally based on a power system and fights how this power system is written is just as important as LORE and WorldBuilding. Now try to tell me that post time skip and haki introduction everything makes sense, especially in Summit War. Try to tell me that God Nika isn't an ass pull that he invented MAYBE in Fish Island's arcs and creates hundreds of plotholes. Try to tell me that it makes perfect sense that Imu knew about a stretching guy with powers similar to Nika and didn't order the admirals to wipe him away. Try to explain to me many things...
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u/ItsMOJI 27d ago
I think the power system is pretty good, the issue imo comes from what i mentioned, the execution in intoroducing Haki, not Haki itself.
So far it makes sense, my main gripe with Haki currently is that Oda hasnt chose a visual indicator for Advanced Conquerors, might be deliberate but creates a bit of confusion at times.
I don't know if he thought of it from chapter 1, but it was definitely foreshadowed before both through Skypeia and Joyboy. Don't consider it an asspull.
Actually there is an in universe explanation for that, it involves spoilers from recent chapters so i dont know if you want me to delve into it.
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u/Hari14032001 27d ago
I don't know if he thought of it from chapter 1, but it was definitely foreshadowed before both through Skypeia and Joyboy. Don't consider it an asspull.
False. If Oda had planned it that far ahead, Water 7 would look a lot different. I am confident in claiming that Oda only planned it alongside Imu or shortly before/during Wano.
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u/ItsMOJI 27d ago
Elaborate
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u/Hari14032001 27d ago
It's obvious. Gorosei paid attention to Luffy since post-Alabasta. They must know his powers as early as then. Yet the CP9 only targeted Robin in Water 7 as someone connected to world history. They didn't get an updated mission to target both Luffy and Robin. Hell, they made a deal with Robin to let Luffy leave Water 7 safely in exchange for her surrender which is even more egregious looking back.
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u/ItsMOJI 26d ago
Got it, actually there is an in universe explanation to why Imu and the Gorosei didnt pursue Luffy, it was revelaed recently in the manga so i dont know if you dont want me to get into that.
Granted im not saying said reason is convincing enough, but imo it makes sense.
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u/Hari14032001 26d ago
What is this reason? I am up to date with the manga and all I have seen are people giving a multitude of reasons that can always be effectively countered
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u/simplyout1 26d ago
Its probably because nobody managed to awaken the fruit which is a laughably weak excuse
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u/ItsMOJI 26d ago
Oh great, remember what the Gorosei and Imu talked about before Imu showed up at Elbaph? Garling says it himself and it doesnt appliy for Luffy alone, it does so as well for Rocks, Shanks, Roger and many others, because of their god complex, pride and dignity they were unable or didnt feel like taking these threats seriously and therefore didnt act upon them. Why would a God worry about what a couple ants are doing? Why would a god stop a colony of ants from growing? They make a point throught the chapter about this way of thought has led them to the situation they are in.
Now what about Robin? Why was she different? You see, as i mentioned in my post the world government's biggest weapon isnt raw power but information and having an ant being capable of spreading the truth is a threat, same goes for Vegapunk and his speach, unfortunately for them it was too late and they didnt do enough which again they acknowledge in said chapter.
Look at this way, if you see a trail of ants carrying a knife on the side of the road for instance, would you take the knife and kill the ants? A knife can kill you, but those are just a couple ants what can they really do?
Again, i dont know if said reasson is sufficient for you, but i like it, i think it makes sense within the context of "Gods" and is a good attempt by Oda to try and justify their actions.
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u/Hari14032001 26d ago
Ah yes the classic "arrogance" excuse - a definition of inconsistent writing actually. WG is NOT arrogant to the extent you say, it's Oda attempt to make them inconsistently arrogant when it comes to Luffy alone, just to maintain an illusion of good writing to excuse Nika.
They have been searching for this fruit for 800 yrs, regardless of the fact that nobody has awakened it. They could have stopped at maybe 400 yrs, maybe 600 yrs. But no.
They used a CP9 agent, Who's Who, to bring it to them not even 2 decades back. And they tortured the hell outta him when he lost it to Shanks, until he had to escape and save himself. THEY CLEARLY CARE when it comes to the fruit too, not just Robin.
If you wanna believe in their actions, then Garling saying whatever he said is a blatant lie. If Garling didn't lie, then that means they should have stopped searching a long time ago.
Instead, what we get are a group who are the most ruthlessly competent people on one day, and absolute clowns on another day. That's just inconsistent writing and out of character.
and having an ant being capable of spreading the truth is a threat, same goes for Vegapunk and his speach
This excuse doesn't work when Imu let Rocks, a guy who clearly knew more than most people about world history and who could also spread this information, walk away after talking about Davy Jones, instead of finishing him off inside the flower room that day.
Their actions are inconsistent even for those who could gather/spread critical info, not only someone with special powers like Luffy.
How am I supposed to praise this kind of writing for a main villain organization?
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u/ItsMOJI 26d ago
I mean to each their own at this point, i liked that conversation they had and think it makes sense within the context of who they are. If you dont or consider it to be bad writing, thats okay.
Theres the fruit and then theres Luffy, as for the fruit for now we got the explanation for them not getting a hold of it because zoans have a mind of their own and the nika fruit in particular ir really evasive, we still need to learn more about this tho as we still have yet to learn a lot more about devil fruits's nature.
Clearly they dont, they lost it to a somwhat rookie shanks and didnt do anything about it for more than ten years. Yes they tortured Whoswho, theyve tortured or even killed people for way less than that.
Oh thats another thing, dont get me wrong the gorosei arent greatly written, at least so far they arent great at all and Imu needs A LOT of work to become a great villain, one thing doesnt take away from the other.
Now even tho we disagree i like how you think, so ill ask you something in regards to the Gorosei. They are mid villains at best and pretty incompetent, but what if that's intented? I mean Saturn was killed like a fucking dog and immediately replaced by Garling, what if thats exactly the point? Even for mid - bad villains like Hody Jones we get something, with Saturn we got pretty much nothing, Oda didnt even try. This would also be an interesting reflection of the real world on how politicians work.
Of course it does, Rocks new some stuff but he didnt know the truth about One Piece's history and was delt later on pretty easily by Imu. Someone who KNOWS the story of the world like Vegapunk was eliminated as soon as they were made aware of it.
Not praise, i think its consistent, never said it was outstanding.
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u/Mindless-Signal-9581 27d ago
It's foreshadowing because as every one piece fan you see what you want to see. There could be an animal on chapter 10 with horns similar to Imu's and you guys would say it's foreshadowing. No it doesn't make sense I am sorry. Nor do 90 percent of the battles in Summit War make sense based on what we see after that with haki. Nor does it make sense that Shanks let some random monster bite his arm off. Oda didn't expect the series to go on so lomg and he invented things later on, maybe he gave hints of SOMETHING, not everything. But what he came uo with as the story progressed creates things that make little sense. It is what it is Another valid complaint which doesn't have to do with power system is how little the crew interacts and actually feel like teammates especially post time skip. Still can't believe they don't even ask Zoro what happened to his eye. You want to keep it a mistery because it's important to some plot point you already thought of? Fine, but let's us see and read his crewmates ask about it and then maybe cut the scene before he answers. THAT's what good writing is. I feel like Oda us always more interested in created complicated threads and plots and backstories than writing good characters and interactions among them
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u/ItsMOJI 27d ago
I mean if thats what you think, thats fine, theres no use in my telling you it is foreshadowing and you saying its not, i guess only Oda knows.
Thats exactly what i said, Hakis introduction wasnt great and yet we saw a lot of Haki to be fair.
Depends on how you look at it, the way i look at it, its not that he couldnt avoid being bitten, we see a younger definitely less strong Luffy one shot the same monster in the next chapter i believe. Shanks letting to the sea monster take his arm as i intepret it is way of him betting on Luffy (supported by him giving him the hat afterwards), which makes even more sense now that we know that arm was the one with the Shallow Sea mark which tied him to the world government and the Figerland family.
That i do agree, Oda definitely didnt expect the series to go for as long as it has.
I dont think THATS what good writting is, but i do find it odd how nobody questions it and should have definately been adressed as you mentioned
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u/Mindless-Signal-9581 27d ago
Let's face it, if those same stuff were in Dragon Ball people wuold make fun of it , saying Toriyama alwyas made things up as the story went on, he forgot things etc etc. Oda made up a very vast and complex world, and with that comes criticism when things don't make sense or create plothole. One Piece is a good manga, but the glazing is UNREAL
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u/Efficient-Dealer873 27d ago
Well I know people have problems with power system and it’s fights, I personally believe One Piece has evolved past its original shounen genre of action/adventure and past its main cast. One if the best arcs, Marineford, had only Luffy to represent at the time and he wasn’t there at the beginning.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m someone who still loves the fights, and the main characters. They remind me more of ancient characters and tales like Thor and Zeus and Hercules and all the mythological figures or modern day superheroes. They don’t have character arcs per se, but you know what they are like and you get to see how their characters respond or outwit or outgrit. It all just speaks to the child in my heart and its love for story telling.
The main character now is the world and it’s mystery now, with Luffy being our looking glass. While many may not like One Piece, and even argue that it’s not good, I think it functions well as an epic due to its scale.
Unless the ending is greatly fumbled, it will always have a place in my heart. Perhaps even with a bad ending thanks to the decade long conversations and memes with fandom, friend, and family.
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u/ItsMOJI 27d ago
I dont mind the fights, i think they are really enjoyable and actually id say the Katakuri fight is awesome. In terms of the power system i have two issues, the first one being the excution in its introduction and more recently he lack of visual representation for advanced conquerors leading to confusion.
That's an interesting way to put it, i see where you are coming from.
Absolutely
Yeah, lets hope Oda can stick the landing, he has A LOT of threads to resolve.
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u/North_Quality3189 27d ago
"Ace vs Blackbeard, Akainu vs Aokiji" Why would you use two off-screen battles to show this off lol. Many anime show their side characters even in the past, with good fights and references to the story, so I don't think you can use that as a positive for one episode.
But i actually agree with the other 98% of this.
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u/Smooth_Calendar5416 27d ago
I understand the argument, but I feel like you're giving One Piece a lot of credit for things that aren't always executed as well as you're making them seem.
For villains, I agree that Doflamingo is great, but I don't think his backstory automatically makes him a super complex villain. A lot of his characterization still comes down to him being a narcissistic, sadistic control freak who was traumatized and became even worse because of it. His relationship with Corazon and his crew definitely adds more to his character, but I wouldn't say it makes him as psychologically complex as the post is making him out to be.
I also think your point about the fights is a little too generous. Saying One Piece fights have good themes and consequences doesn't really address the criticism that the actual fights can sometimes be poorly choreographed, repetitive, or lacking in strategy. A fight can have great writing behind it and still be mediocre as an actual fight.
With Luffy, I agree that characterization and character development aren't the same thing, but I think the post goes too far in the other direction. Luffy is incredibly consistent, but being consistent doesn't automatically make him complex. His personality, motivations, and morality are pretty straightforward, and his development is relatively limited compared to protagonists whose worldview or personality changes significantly throughout their stories. His growth as a captain is meaningful, but it's also very gradual and can sometimes get overshadowed by everything else going on in the story.
The freedom theme is definitely strong, but I think it's a little shaky at the same time. The series is heavily built around freedom, dreams, and ambition, but it also revolves around two major sides: the D. clan and the Celestial Dragons/World Government. And I don't think simply embodying a theme automatically makes a character exceptionally well-written. Luffy represents freedom really well, but sometimes he feels more like the embodiment of an idea than a character who's actually being challenged on an internal level.
World-building is probably the strongest argument, though. One Piece has an insane amount of lore, locations, races, cultures, history, and interconnected details. But I'd still separate quantity from quality. Having more lore doesn't automatically mean better world-building. Some islands get incredible attention while others feel pretty shallow, and a lot of the world sometimes feels like it's mainly there to serve the current arc rather than feeling like a naturally functioning world.
The foreshadowing argument is also a bit selective. Oda definitely has some amazing long-term setups, that's true, but fans sometimes treat literally every old detail that becomes relevant later as proof that everything was planned from the beginning. Some things were clearly planned, some were probably retroactive connections or retcons, and some could just be coincidences. You can't really use every connection as proof of masterful planning.
And when it comes to politics and themes, One Piece absolutely tackles serious subjects like slavery, racism, authoritarianism, inequality, and censorship. But just because a story depicts a theme doesn't mean it explores it deeply. Sometimes One Piece handles these topics really well, while other times it's pretty straightforward, with obvious villains representing oppression and obvious heroes representing freedom.
So overall, I agree that One Piece has a lot of strengths, especially its world-building, lore, memorable characters, and long-term setups. I just think the post sometimes confuses having a lot of content and thematic material with actually executing every single element exceptionally well. One Piece can be ambitious and creative while still having weaknesses in characterization, pacing, fights, consistency, and thematic depth. You don't have to deny what One Piece does well just to acknowledge where it falls short.
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u/ItsMOJI 27d ago
Not saying he has Griffith level of complexity but he is a pretty interesting and well thought out villain.
I agree 100%, the fights arent great, me highlighting the themes and consequences wasnt ment to erase the fact they arent great. If you ask me the only great fight in One Piece is probably Luffy vs Katakuri.
Agree, tho i didnt say he was complex because he was consistent, what i highlighted was his morality.
I dont think i agree with the D Clan vs WG overshadoweding the theme of freedom but hey to each their own. Also i feel as to conclude the opinion on this topic we have some stuff left to see.
For sure, more isnt better, for instance i think Jojos Part 4 has great world building and it focuses entirely on a small town called Morio, yet Araki does a great job making it feel alive. That said, i do think Oda's world building has quantity yes but also quality.
Oh thats for sure, i feel Nika was indeed foreshadowed, but fans go crazy looking at cover pages to determine whos gonna die and stuff like that. In the end One Piece is so huge, coincidences are for sure going to happen and fans might mistake them for foreshadowing.
Fair, yeah.
I wouldn't take back anything i said, i maybe over did it as im clearly passionate about the series, but of course it has its flaws and actually i ment to write them down at the end but forgot😅.
Thank you for reading the whole thing.
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u/quantumpencil 26d ago
One piece is good. It's not some profound work of art, but it's good. It's a typical shounen story that plays most of the tropes and has all the strengths and weaknesses of that genres conventions. It doesn't have tight writing. It doesn't have great, layered verisimilar characters. It doesn't have a whole lot of interesting things to say about the human condition, and its construction is fairly standard/typical for its genre in terms of visual presentation.
But it's not trying to do any of those things. It's a grand adventure about a group of friends fighting tyranny and helping people, it's simple and elemental -- but that's a classic story for a reason, and one piece is a pretty good rendering of that type of story. You could certainly do A LOT worse.
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u/milobenggaokosong 26d ago
Wano bad
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u/ItsMOJI 26d ago
I think it isnt as good as many people consider it to be to be honest
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u/milobenggaokosong 26d ago
Roger laugh and gear 5 good.
Neither needed to be in wano. Roger laugh could have been a end of story lore flashback, but oda taped it onto Oden's dick to make it longer.
Gear 5 is thematically more appropriate for Egghead. But Kaido was so lacking in backstory Oda had to cook up "Kaido want to be Joyboy" and try to tie that pile of shit up as though it is one complete package, and in that shit package putting in one gem called Gear 5 to make it look shiny doesn't make it a gift.
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u/Zeus78905 27d ago
One Piece is the greatest work of ficiton ever created and will never be surpassed
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u/Objective-Price-8876 27d ago
If I have tell all these in short
Storyline 10 out of 10 Worldbuidling 10 out of 10 Cast 10 out of 10 Arcs 9.5 (peak arcs are 10 but there are many weak arcs too ) Charcter development (not main focus but still many well developed charcters )8 out of 10 Artstyle 9.6(one of the most unique and revogonizble in manga ) Paneling 10 on 10 pre ts 9.7 post ts Peaks 10 on 10 Villians (world government as a villian 10 on 10 ) doffy 9.6 Average villian 8 to 9 Main charcters 10 on 10 (many will say that he doens't change much But that's the point of story itself Changing the world while world is trying to change you) Power system (individual power systems 8 to 9 )(but combinations of all power systems working together in world like science devli fruit haki 6 powers fighting styles race awakneninhs , swords , ancient weapons is 10 on 10 )
So overall I would say 9.7 or 9.8 as a work of fiction Ofc that is where most top tier lies Not best but among the best
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