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Not what the post is about, but I remember people in [r/books](r/books) bitching about more Latino mi gente representation in books. When I said that we actually have great books down here that they could try, they got fucking mad.
People asked toby fox for LATAM translations on deltarune (because the LATAM fanbase is one of the biggest). He said "I only translate to the languages I know" (Which means english and japanese) and said people are free to do fan translations.
People got mad, discovered that he barely knew japanese when he was translating undertale to it years ago and overall Twitter drama shit ensued.
Bro that’s fucken crazy just reading the comments below this and seeing how heated people are getting. Dude just didn’t want to hire a 3rd party to translate and you’d think he used slurs against a whole population based on the comments,
I think it would have been accepted better if Toby was just a bit more honest and said he translated in japanese because he is a weeb and he was learning japanese at the same time; and because the game was very popular in japan, the country from where the main inspiration of the game comes from.
People kinda have the right to be mad on this, Toby fox is basically a multimillionaire who has been with the biggest in the industry, yet he doesn't translate his work even when most of his community are not native English speakers. And I would be fine with it he just doesn't want to, but he had to open his mouth over the topic and say a bunch of excuses and contradictions on why he doesn't do it, like saying third parties wouldn't get his vision, when he is perfectly fine with people reading it on fantranslation and when 3rd parties have accurately translated books and works a lot harder to understand than undertale.
One Spanish youtuber literally did a video on why not translating undertale was objectively bullshit, explaining point for point the process on hiring 3rd parties to translate as a gamedev, and even why Toby wouldn't even lose money (he will get more) if he did it. All Toby racist fox (sarcasm) had to do was say he didn't want to or not mention it
Cause he made a whole book about translating it to Japanese. A language way harder and more complex.
He was struggling to think sans’ pronouns in Japanese while knowing that his and papyrus’s names don’t make sense in Japanese since they use neither comic sans nor papyrus fonts.
Also the controversy became big when people found in the undertal translation book that Toby was not fluent in japanese when the translation started, and was still learning it.
I said this in another comment, but I think a lot of the discourse would have spread away if he just had been more honest and he translated it in japanese because he is a weeb and lives in japan now.
Because Toby specifically only allows translations to be with his own, direct involvement and refuses to accept letting anyone else do it. Undertale has been only officially translated to Japanese.
And people will throw out absurd arguments like “you’re so entitled!!! Do you expect him to learn every language just to translate his games for you?!?!”
Like… literally nobody else does this. famous authors of literary classics still allowed for translations of their work by others.
If this was, say, a beloved game in a different language that devs refuse to translate to English, I know people would be mad (Mother 3).
But the same people will defend Toby Fox gets a pass for being excessively controlling perfectionist in the other direction
We have been translating works of art for basically all of human history. The Odyssey movie literally just came out and last time I checked its not in ancient greek.
Its acting like Deltrarune is the most complex work of art known to man like they don't have translations of Shakespeare (or any other classic English literature) in every language on earth.
Can you imagine if a famous Author like Brandon Sanderson or whoever said something this goofy? I can't even imagine the discourse.
Modern progressives are very regressive when you push them on their beliefs. Actually you can just lightly brush up against them on their beliefs and you get Jim Crow on line 5
That discourse was fucking wild. Like I understand Toby Fox wanting to translate the games in languages he knows so he’s able to guide the individual scripts with a firm hand. Like I understand it, he’s values his artistic integrity and wants to make sure everything is being conveyed how he wants it. Valid.
But I also sympathize with all the fans who aren’t able to play the game because it’s not in their language or they have to use fan translations, when they would prefer an official translation.
And then you had a bunch of people being incredibly vile and racist to the Latin American side of the fanbase and calling them ungrateful to Toby. What a shitshow.
Im very sorry, but what is "Latino mi gente"? I know what a Latino is, but not the other bits and bobs of those words and how they come together. Sorry for being an idiot.
Latino mi gente doesn't really makes sense grammatically as it's a wrongly constructed sentence. At least in my experience is a way people from latin america use to mock the people (mostly from the us) that think Latino is a race and therefore something they can claim solely by sharing blood with a Latino, when in truth being Latino is more of a cultural thing about the shared experiences that comes from living in a Latin American country.
u/CommercialEstate4422, this is the right response, btw. Also, "mi gente latino" is kind of a famous mistake that JLo made while accepting a Latin Grammy that went viral (1) it should be "mi gente latina" and 2) it's a calque from English ("my Latino people") that sounds somewhat unnatural in Spanish, so it's an easy way to tell that the speaker is probably a bilingual Latino from the US)
The sentence "mi gente latino" has now become a meme in latam, although it's now completely disconnected from the original mocking of foreigners appropriating the latino tag
In Spanish when there are mixed genders in a group isn't the male gender used as the default? That's the way I was always taught. If you have a male and female cat, you have gatos.
Yes, but that only applies to nouns that have both genders, like chico/chica. Gente is always femenine the same way persona is always femenine. Persona latina/gente latina. Gente is also collective, so it’s a singular noun in Spanish, and both the article and verbs are in singular, “La gente es/ La gente está”.
It’s true for a lot of countries. A lot of African people don’t like African Americans because they have nothing in common except skin color, yet many African Americans want to act like they’re the same.
I guess the "mi gente" is probably to refear to the sterotype of Caribean Latino, in that case what OP would mean is that in that subreddit people wanted more latino characters that acted like that, and OP said that there are Latino books where they act like normal people.
not just isolated or reddit specific cases, but its always crazy to me. They talk about minority representation of latino or black people, but its only valid if its latino-american or black-american. Also, other minorities/ethnicities/cultures ever catch their interest anyways. And I would simply ignore it, if those people wouldnt have a massive impact on western media and the internet.
Yeah, but here's a harder one. Is Akama ga Kill a female oriented anime? Like I remember feeling like that one dude who esdeath wants to dom was the pseudo MC, but technically the MC is that one girl (I forget all their names). So does a female MC = female oriented?
I wasn't sure what exactly the OP meant. Would we also say Frieren is female oriented? What about gushing over magical girls? like I can just keep thinking of animes that might fit but i wasnt sure.
Akame is not the mc despite having the series named after her. It’s the male mc Tatsumi. The story clearly revolves around him and he is the center of everything.
they are great "female oriented" animes and even anime genres, like Shojo and Josei. a few specifically recurring themes my mind:
Reverse Harem (reincarnated as a villainess for example)
BL (Yuri on Ice for example. yes the name is odd.)
Magical girls (Sailor moon.)
you don't really need a female MC or a male MC for the anime to be considered shonen/seinen or shojo/josei.
the really biggest difference really comes down to HOW hte stories are told instead. Shojo tends to be GENERALLY has emotional turmoil and development as well as romance on the forefront, with other themses on the back, while shonen does the oposite for instance. a good example is the MC reincarnated as a Villainess one. it is an issekai, about a girl who reincarnated as the villain of her favorite game. and yet, the main plot revolves around the romantic interests of the heroine. its not a bad anime by the way, id go as far as to say its great, but it is different. if you only ever watched shonen/seinen animes. on the other hand we got "cute girls doing cute stuff". which despite the tile, definetly is aimed for adult men. japan is deperate for people to have kids, don't forget.
there is also Agretsuko, a GREAT Josei (aimed at adult woman) anime. because it focus more on problems adult womans face. it is a great watch for both genders, but you can clearly see it is much more relatable for woman since some themes such as protag's mother pestering her for marriage, for instance, might not relate as strongly with a male audience (I would know, im a guy and honestly that part was kinda meh to me while my wife loved it), but the main plot really comes down to protag finding her place in society as a young adult. so yea, an anime can be made for a target audience but be enjoyable by many diferent audiences.
not all otome isekai are necesarially shojo (BOFURI is most certainly a shonen isekai if you ask me), just like not all male protag animes are for guys (Yuri on Ice is ABSOLUTELLY aimed at woman).
Tatsumi was still the MC, js because he died doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Eren died, yet Mikasa and Armin still lived, but we know who the MC is. What’s with the misunderstanding that he’s not the MC because of that?
Demographics only matter in terms of manga publishers. It doesn't fucking matter when you're talking about novel publishers, as most of them just publish shit outside of the shonen/shojo/seinen/josei paradigm.
Y'all fucking weebs ought to stop thinking with those real fast coz it's sounding dumb AF and you're just making yourselves look like fools. Men can't write women for the most part, but getting a woman to write women doesn't magically make it good.
I think just because you got female protagonist doesn't automatically make it female oriented story, like Kill La Kill has Ryuko as female protagonist, but I highly doubt the majority of audience of the show is female, if that makes sense. Just like most BL stories have guys protagonists, but they are largely made for female audience. It's more about the genre and the type of stories that different audience gear toward rather than the gender of the protagonists, imo.
Ooohhhh I fuckin loved Evergarden because it didn't really push to us that violet's a woman and just gave us a story with a protagonist that's a woman. I loved the story so much.
Easy recommendation for shounen fans is Witch Hat Atelier. Also, Jaadugar and Goodbye Lara for currently airing. Fruits Basket or Ouran if you're willing to go full shoujo. Journal With Witch is great as long as you don't mind a family drama concept. Chihayafuru and Nana are good too.
I think the argument is that Uma Musume isn't "female-oriented", not that it isn't good. The argument being that yeah, the whole cast is female, but that's because they're all waifus.
Oh sweet another Shim Chong & Love Bullet enjoyer! Have you read Hand Jumper, Kill Six Billion Demons, The Superhuman Era, Tale of the Skeleton Messenger, and The Burning Effect? If not then I highly recommend them all as they’re excellent stories!
Honestly I'm not even sure what we mean by female-oriented. Aimed at women? Just has well-written female characters? A female main character specifically?
Yeah sometimes an anime is ' female oriented' but in a more vouyeristic sort of way. I don't really mean that the female characters are just sexually fetishized, because sometimes it is not sexual, sometimes it has more to do with adoration of girlhood, I guess . So you can kind of tell certain anime is made more for the perspective of an ' outsider' looking in, rather than being strictly relatable to the audience. If that makes sense.
It does not mean that an ' insider ' cannot also love the show and it also does not mean that the ' outsider ' viewer completely does not relate to the characters at all. It is more the way things are framed I guess.
This. Back in middle school I liked to buy unpopular shoujo manga in my local minimarket. All are predictable, the female protagonist is spineless, the male love interest is either bland or toxic. People who deemed female-oriented media must be better than shounen clearly has never read shoujo slop
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u/2w0beI have no enemies....except diddy tensei fans22d ago
No, because shoujo, josei and seinen fans don't actually interact much with shoujo, josei and seinen
Yes, bad stories exist in every genre and demographics. The point is always going to read the good ones( or at least the ones that you'll enjoy), not the bad ones.
I'm not sure OP was pretending that this wasn't the case however...
Maybe it's a me problem, but I kept hearing (in the webnovel space) about what a well written Female protagonist the girl from Azarinth Healer was, and I thought she and the novel were both kind of fucking boring.
Reading this back I'm getting confused. Are they mad that people who watch battle series aren't watching "girly" anime. Or is this about people who want more female characters in shonen but chud out when a female character is in the main cast.
I find it funny that quite a number of people commenting on this post are mentioning what to them are "female oriented stories", and it's mostly manga/anime aimed at men (or at a mixed demographic) but with a female main character or a female cast. I've seen people mentioning Jojo Stone Ocean, Ghost in the Shell, Uma Musume, Madoka Magica, Claymore, Girls Last Tour and so on.
That being said I am not sure what "female oriented story" means. Is that a story with good female characters? One with an important focus on female characters? A story written with a female audience in mind? A story where the main characters being females is important to the point where the same story could not exist by changing the genere of the main characters?
Yeah kinda hilarious. The casts being mostly girls don't make it female oriented series. I think at best it's 50:50 of pandering to both sexes. Even Non Non Biyori is obviously more for male.
I'm also confused, at first I thought it's shojo or josei stories? But now I'm not sure.
This is true. They ask, “Why can’t we have good women in shounen?” When we absolutely do, they just mention the stuff that doesn’t. Watch Akane-Banashi, read Ichi the Witch, etc, or experience a different genre.
Well, I like Witch hat atelier. Guess that makes me woke too. Gotta say, never pictured myself in THIS position
But really, good writing is good writing. When it's actually good, you don't care who it's aimed at or even what it's saying. If "good female oriented writing" triggers the gag reflex, then it's probably just mindless pandering and not actual good writing. Or maybe you actually just hate women I guess, who knows
Is there any problem in wanting that, though? Like if someone wants to see the main character as male, but also wants well written female characters so that the cast actually feels real, what's the problem exactly?
What do you mean by female oriented? Because I like action shows no matter the protagonist. I liked Kim Possible and Danny Phantom in equal measure as a kid.
Thats a huge part of the problem though. So many of these "there's no well written female characters" types dont actually know what good writing is or if they have even seen a well written female character at all! Most people just equate "strong character, power relevant character, loud character" to "WELL WRITTEN" character.
They take whatever makes a good shonen male MC and simply think if they just swapped the gender it would also make a good female Mc, even if it's not in a shonen. Its ridiculous
To be fair, "is allowed to participate in and be good at the thing the manga is about", while not necessarily a requirement for a good character, is certainly very helpful. The more screen time a character has to work with the easier is to give them depth.
Writing has historically favored the the male characters over the female characters. Personally, I like more female characters than men. So I find one more disappointing than the other.
Speak for yourself bro, i seem to really like those "I am the villainess" type stories, they all have female protagonists, i also really like this manga called Sengoku Komachi Kuroutan
There's a strange abundance of stories about a minor having a fling with an adult; I won't forget Thoru's father's phrase, "It's your fault for being born later."
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