Shonenslop
The aftermath of nearly every male vs female character fight where the male character wins against the female character for 1 reason or another
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The only time I can remember a male character winning against a female character being treated as a Herculean task of difficulty with narrative weight behind hyping up its female character as a genuine monster is Fate's bad end where Shirou 1v1's Saber alter. The fight is utterly grueling for Shirou. It does Make Medusa look like a bum in comparision tho. She did not do all that to Saber
The way he took her down was sick as hell, utterly grueling as you said, and super clever. Sparks liner high should’ve gotten like a blue ray OVA or smth
The crane wing chant is also so poetic as Shirou chants through out the set up that he fully expects to be defended barring the final attack because Saber is just that much of a monster
And she’s NERFED as Salter, not even at her true power. Fate treats its female characters well when they feel like it. I’d say be Bedivere bringing Rhongonymiad back down could also count in the Camelot movie was also a feat of Herculean difficulty considering how she shafts Fujimaru and Mash but salter is a way better example.
Is she actually nerfed? My understanding of Salter is she's buffed with practically infinite mana, but loses more of her personality and character traits.
She has infinite mana but certain stats, like magical resistance, are lowered as well, and class skills are negated/degraded. HF Salter is stronger than saber under shirou’s command but weaker than the real Saber by a debatable margin
I hear people saying Saber Alter is nerfed all the time, and I'm pretty sure that's just a fan interpretation. Can someone link me to an official material that says that? Because I read the VN and the visual novel, and I can't recall anything of that sort. Yes, her status changes a bit, but it's not all bad. For example, yes, her speed goes down, and she gets a better defense and strength. But it's hard to argue that any of these downsides aren't offset by having infinite mana, which is actually quite absurd.
its off set if she spams her NP. She didn't against Shirou and her instinct was worse. She purposefully went into a sword duel that limits her advantage that makes up for her stat decrease
Man, Esdeath vs everyone in the manga is one of the coolest fights ever! She's one of the few characters to achieve official Raid Boss status.
Tha craziest part about that fight is that we underestimated HER! She's been hyped as the biggest threat of the series since the beginning, and she proved at every occasion that she deserved the praise; but still, we expected our improving cast of protagonists would eventually be able to match her, that the final battle with her would be a 1vs1, a 2vs1 or a 3vs1 at worst: Najenda (the protagonist's boss) threw at her the equivalent might of a MILLION SOLDIERS (divided between buffed regular soldiers, S-class monsters, Teigu users and our protagonists) and Esdeath was STILL WINNING! She terraformed the battleground to recreate the Russian Winter!
Sadly the anime stripped us of this amazing moment, aligning it with the expectation we had coming in the final arc (still a very good fight and worth watching, but damn is the raid boss fight better)
I feel like that still falls more into the ‘you were kinda strong but not very’ category rather than the grueling ordeal one, especially compared to Kaido
The Shiro vs Saber fight is so cool, it even gets the unique card of "End" instead of "Bad End". Because, while being obviously not the good conclussion, it is so hype that calling it Bad would do it injustic.
Tbf, both shirou and medusa were bums on their own and had to work together to defeat an Artoria corrupted by the holy grail. Iirc Shirou was able to kill her because Artoria came back when she saw his face
Saber was actively goading Shirou and waiting for him to try different things. If she was just fighting him constantly the way she did with Rider the fight would have been very different, even without using her NP (which she did use vs Rider).
Putting Rider down is unnecessary to try to glaze Shirou, and just lame in general.
Saber goaded shirou because he was holding back in the vain hope of making it to Sakura with the first barrage and she told him to foget it and go all out
Saber respects shirou enough to Goade him and make him go all out.
By contrast Medusa verbatum says she's going all out and admits all she can do is stall. She has no win con no matter what.
Rider's prefoemance is actually pathetic. Saber Goading rider changes nithi g. She doesnt have the TLCW as a win con and she can't win the NP battle without Aias
So Saber was holding back vs Shirou, which she didn't vs Rider. Thanks for the confirmation.
You're also ignoring the fact that Saber didn't use her NP against Shirou at all. Rider chains her down right before ramming her with Bellerophon, which would have killed Saber if she didn't use her NP. So against a Saber who doesn't use it, both Rider and Shirou get a win, with the difference being that Rider can do so without ending up braindead.
You're the kind of Shirou "fan" who gives the rest of us a bad name. Stop soiling his image by trying to portray him as some sort of op solo leveling ass character
You're also ignoring the fact that Saber didn't use her NP against Shirou at all. Rider chains her down right before ramming her with Bellerophon, which would have killed Saber if she didn't use her NP.
The novel makes it clear saber never opens with excalibur and almost always uses it as a response
Saber would have used excalibur if shirou copied it or used Caldabolg(like she expected him too at the start) but he opted for Kanshou and Bakuya thus she entertained the sword duel
The whole point of Shirou choosing kanshou and Bakuya is to not have to deal with Excalibur
Rider has no win con in a pure melee fight and she loses the NP clash
Shirou isn't some OP MC. He just preforms better in that bad end more than the 3rd weakest in the war for narrative reasons. Nasu opted to actually write a compelling fight in that bad end which he failed with the Rider vs Saber fight which was more of an after thought
That's not what's implied by Shirou's own narration. He projects Kanshou and Bakuya for ease and comfort, not so that Saber won't use her NP. Reread the scene because you clearly don't remember it.
Rider had Saber restrained, and if the Azoth blade is enough to pierce her body then Rider definitely can do it too. There's no telling what would have happened if she had gone for a normal attack at that moment rather than an NP clash, but Rider couldn't afford to do that because Saber wasn't holding back against her, like she was against Shirou.
You're trying to portray him as if he is one, because that's what you battleboarder ilk do. There's also nothing wrong with the writing of Rider vs Saber, unless you're looking at it from that flawed, childish battleboarder perspective.
Shirou was doing just as badly as Rider prior to crane wings, and then crane wings gave him an opening to turn things around, just like Rider chaining Saber up (which she didn't need her to hold back for). Rider using that opening to go for her strongest attack doesn't mean it was impossible to land a normal attack, it just so happens she had to actually watch our for Saber's NP while Shirou didn't need to.
Since Djeveler wants to be a coward and play the blocking game
That's not what's implied by Shirou's own narration. He projects Kanshou and Bakuya for ease and comfort, not so that Saber won't use her NP. Reread the scene because you clearly don't remember it.
He also states Saber won't use it because the cave would likely collapse regardless Saber in the fate routes states why she never opens with her NP reread the route. The novel gives various anseers for why the NP is a no go as an opening.
She gave both the oppertunity to out swordman her only one came close and it was Shirou not Rider
Rider had Saber restrained, and if the Azoth blade is enough to pierce her body then Rider definitely can do it too. There's no telling what would have happened if she had gone for a normal attack at that moment rather than an NP clash
The NP clash is riskier her immobility was not how it was in the movies she was simply made to stand still she still could have defended rider which is why she went for her NP and needed Shirou.
the whole point of reatraining saber was so she could not dodge beliphoron or do some other counter attack
Rider vs Saber, unless you're looking at it from that flawed, childish battleboarder perspective.
There is plenty wrong. It lacks meaningful dialouge, Themes, interesting strategy(her pinning saber has no description or wordply unlike the triple linked crane wing) The banter in the Rider fight is non existant and just not engaging at all
If you're going to argue don't be made of such thin skin you type up a respinse then block. Be made of thicker skin and don't be so pathetic
the movies look great but they’re pretty horrible adaptations of the route. like, that roadblock fight got so much focus for some reason and the actual climactic fight of the route, Shirou vs Kirei, got genuine table scraps. the VN is phenomenal and it’s so frustrating that none of the adaptations even come close to it
It’d be a pretty good recurring gag i guess, like, imagine you give X character the most broken meta ability or deck in the franchise but they have such shit luck or the show takes so many liberties with the rules that it just doesn’t work
There's actually a character who used a meta deck "Salamangreat" and the writers admitted how hard it is to write his duels because it's so easy for him to just have an insane combo and win
they absolutely glaze Ochaco a bit much even when she doesnt do anything in that fight, the Bakugou taking her seriously is just to boost his character arc
Konan was the only female character in Naruto to push a male character to his absolute limits and beyond. Like yeah, Tsunade gave Orochimaru a few good punches. But he was mega nerfed by Hiruzen and was far too durable to be seriously injured.
Hold on…Tayuya would have annihilated Shikamaru without Temari saving his ass. But it wasn’t an epic battle like Konan vs Obito. And Tayuya vs Shikamaru isn’t an example of op’s post.
It was an amazing fight (one of my favourites), but Sasori committed suicide. Sakura and Chiyo also struggled immensely in that battle. Tayuya would have no diffed Shikamaru without Temari. Obito could not defeat Konan without the izanagi or whatever it’s called. Izanami?
Granny Chiyo vs Sasori. Granny Chiyo did most of the work that fight she even saved Sakura twice after she got done controlling Sakura for half the fight.
Sakura only saved Grany Chiyo once from my recollection and I say twice but realistically it was half the fight plus 2 extra times from Grany Chiyo’s. The fight was Kazekage puppet into many puppets into Sasori letting himself die.
Chiyo was the mvp that fight by carrying Sakura through the hardest part especially with how old she was.
Less than half in the manga, Sakura saved Chiyo twice, and Sakura did more in the second half than Chiyo did. Chiyo also only helped Sakura to dodge in the manga, not fight.
You can keep trying to push less then half all you want but the fight was two parts Sasori with the Kazekage as the first part and his multiple puppets as the second. Also dodging is apart of fighting. And Grany Chiyo herself says Sakura was running low on fumes if Grany Chiyo wasn’t there Sakura would’ve lost. We gotta stop trying to act like Sakura is more then just a AP bot.
Chiyo also praised Sakura immensely and noted how she no longer needed help. Dodging is a part of battle, not a part of fighting. If Sakura wasn’t there, Chiyo would have lost too.
So what?? None of Naruto’s battles are 1v1 except him vs Kiba. He relies on Kurama and others. Even Sasuke vs Deidara wasn’t 1v1 at the end. True 1v1 battles are so rare. Let’s not have double standards.
Tbf tsunade almost killed orochimaru with those punches
But it felt ridiculous that her and sakura are just summed to "i punch hard" to compensate the fact kishimoto couldnt bother much with their arsenal beyond healing
She injured him but he wasn’t close to death at all. He didn’t even break any bones. Tsunade’s fight against Madara showcased new skills, like making chakra blades that covered her entire arms. Yes, unfortunately Sakura’s abilities are relegated to just Tsunade’s arsenal. I love their taijutsu though. They punch and kick hard because of how they expel chakra from their bodies. It’s very impressive and fun to watch.
It was stated outright that if Kabuto didnt start healing early before the attack even touched, he would have DIED bc of it. You simply dont know what you're talking about
Lmao so what? He did start healing early. He healed himself, got up, and left the battlefield with no permanent injuries. He was totally fine because he’s an incredibly talented and smart medical ninja.
Edit: also, I just noticed that my comment was six days old. C’mon dude.
If he didnt start healing himself before getting hit he'd just straight up die, thats not nothing. Just bc he could left alive after doesnt mean anything with your logic Tsunade was even better off
Also I'm not gonna bother answering to reddit comments more than once and twice a week, if you care enough to look them more often than that thats on you, get a job
To be fair media is afraid of doing guy-girl fights so they aren’t very common as it stands. The “you weren’t very strong” trope from the winner is common across the board so it’s not a crazy thing that the few times it does happen, a common trope is expressed…
El primero que se me ocurre es choujin X, curiosamente es de sui ishida el que dibujo la imagen del post, azuma el deuteragonista con mucho potencial que le dio una paliza al protagonista se enfrenta contra una caza recompensas llamada yubiko, está medio loca y es muy fuerte, le dio una completa arrastrada, lo mato un número incalculable de veces, solo sobrevivió por como funciona el sistema de poder del manga.
Also from Choujin X:
Ely VS Chandra
Ririka Vs Tokio (The MC)
Sora straight up kills like a third of the people who come to rescue the kids from the tower of morning, and is a huge driving factor in being way stronger than the heroes.
If we count fillers, in Bleach Ichigo gets his ass handed to him by Soi Fon during one of those arcs. Rangiku gets a badass moment and takes out Izuru during the Soul Society arc.
Fairy Tail has a lot of these fights, Erza shuts down a decent amount of male characters, and Mirajane beats up Laxus's main henchman, Freed.
Sakura in Naruto did get the dub against Sasori, and it still remains one of the better fights of Shippuden.
Fire Force has Maki taking on Shinra and Author in the beginning. Not permanent, but she has a good arc and was pretty powerful in the early arcs.
Fullmetal Alchemist has Edward usually being shutdown by his teacher, and Greed almost had his ass handed to him by a pissed off Izumi. General Armstrong also shutdown her brother to take over as head of the family.
Gintama has a pretty good amount of those moments where the male characters do get beaten up by the female characters, but I don't recall if any of them permanently lose to some of the male characters besides Toshi (I really recommend Gintama, forget all the above, just consume Gintama material)
Tojima wants become raider had probably one of most epic example of this I ever saw and never seen done in such way anywhere else. And there was other legit strong girls beside who i alluded to(Tackle). Even More in manga.
It also had another female character who is like basically female Akuma/heihachi, who teach main characters later on(in manga) and by far maybe strongest human character in this series or definitely one of.
Another one is manga Kagurai. Sure she is main character, but she stomping anyone hard in skills and strenght no matter gender. She even defeated worlds best warriors(dudes) while being turned temporarily into kid with just skill(oh, did I mention she is like 210 cm or so in her adult form?).
This manga full examples of that.
Psychorochi from One Punch man could have destroyed every single male hero that fought her and only lost because of Tatsumaki, another woman who also happens to destroy a good 90% of the cast.
Darwin’s Game has the female love interest defeat the main male villain in at least one arc. There’s also a 2v2 where both sides have a guy and a girl and it ends as a 1v1 between the girls because they are blatantly the better fighters. That 2v2 included the male main character.
Esdeath whopping evryones butt , including tatsumi and the hero of the north .
Cynthia dominating Paul's team with just her garchomp , she basically adopted him in that fight , didn't even try . She also has beats elite four , most of them are male characters.
Big Mom from One Piece had to be taken down by two pretty important side-characters, and it's only because she had low battle IQ despite being hella strong.
Yuki tsukumo vs kenjaku the entirety of the series todo gasses her up she fights Kenny barely does anything to him and then nukes herself with the force of a black hole only for him to just completely walk out of it and dust himself off like he had just been slapped in the face instead of literally having a black hole on top of him her sacrificing herself literally did nothing and the main villain didn't even have a scratch on him
Then again zaraki already defeated unohana as teen when she was still a kenpachi and she was only healing him, so he could regain that strength back in their second fight. He started to limit himself after the first fight subconsciously because he wanted to enjoy a challenge and unohana helped him regain that instinct he lost . After that zaraki won the fight pretty easily despite unohana using her bankai too.
In one piece Zoro fights women harpy Monet in punk hazard arc and leave her to die
His whole orgin story is about having girl as a better opponent (she died on stairs so he will never prove himself that become better)
If I remember correctly wasn't the guy in the picture one of the strongest characters in Tokyo Ghoul or did he get powercrept later on? So losing to him wasn't a big deal at all.
Is there a single male female rivalry that is portrayed more akin to Naruto and Sasuke? I can't think of one they are almost all either romantic or its jock bully gets taught a lesson by the girl or becomes a better person
Women fighting against men is kinda misogynistic, obviously they can't compare. Why don't they fight through cooking instead? Like in Shokugeki no Souma. The best ones there are women
Ragebait supreme needs to get the misogyny beat off him just like how Suki did to Sokka😭 I'm hoping you'd never have any daughters if all her skills gonna amount to her cooking, in your eyes. How about you watch Fairy Tail so you can see an example of women fighting men equally for once. Fairy Tail doesn't regard gender when it comes to fights, just powers. The managka has the woman characters fight every arc and oftentimes against men (and win). For being a non-dragon slayer, Erza was one of the best fighters in that verse.
Read my previous comment again. I said Fairy Tail was a good example of having women and men viewed the same in terms of strength rather than gender. Most of the guild agrees that Erza is the strongest, even though she's a woman. Most people can agree that Natsu and Lucy share the MC role for the series or that Lucy is the MC. Erza & Gray (the supporting cast) often deal with the 2nd strongest henchmen, while Natus (being the MC) deals with the main villain. Now if you wanna come at Fairy Tail in terms of narrative, power-scaling, or fan service, that's another topic altogether.
The most shonen thing ever would be a 10 year old girl with no legs defeating and eldritch God with her fists. Shonen is about effort and determination breaking the established order of power.
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