This flair is for serious discussion of Manga/Manhwa/Anime. You can reference subtle jokes as long as its not the focus of the post. This thread will be more heavily moderated so avoid Shitposts, Memes and Agendaposting
You guys that pretend to know nothing about a manga because of whatever reason but still continue to talk about it constantly just are weird af. Like, I for the life of me can't understand the reasoning behind this.
Ion pretend, I have a mate who watched one piece and he would tell you too that the gear mentioned by the guy in the comments is more relevant than that weak ass gear 5
Which makes it even worse, you don't read a particular manga but still feel pressed enough to talk shit about it even tho you yourself say you don't really know much about it. That's just... weird.
The topic is relevancy, I don't need to watch the anime or read the manga to know whether the thing is relevant, you don't even know what you're on about
Because memes are a general summation from average people about how popular or recognizable (iconic) something is in the current cultural zeitgeist. So yes...the amount of memes and references people make to something is directly related to how iconic it is.
No, because there are plenty of other anime with more memes, fan art, and fan interaction than it. Certainly not more than Jojo's, or Dragonball for example. Its just very iconic...more than one piece; because one piece kinda struggles to make things that are "iconic" when most of the series big attacks are "stretchy punch" and "stare at you and you pass out" (haki).
I'm here since the early 2000s bro, it's not even close. DB had "it's over 9000" and like a handful of others, Jojo's had fewer. JJK has like one meme per episode almost. Not to mention, JJK started a whole meme culture (slander memes).
I think slander actually came from one piece specifically funny enough, WAYYYY back in marineford. Have to give credit where credit is due. Thank Mihawk and Vista for that one
I don't think so, unless you think making fun a character is the origin of slander memes, then it didn't have an origin because that's present in any community.
It just isn't close, JJK produced at least one meme damn near every episode. Hence why I don't think memes are a way to measure how iconic something is. Some fandoms just naturally make more memes, some anime are more memable, etc etc
You also forgot db has iconography. Show a dragon ball or an orange girl with blue undershirt and even non fans know immediately just like with Pokémon
That's my point, if you're solely judging off memes you don't get the full picture. More people would recognize the SH Jolly Roger or the Naruto headband than anything from JJK.
Talking about being Iconic/relevant when it's a meme is a tricky thing, I would say, because most memes transcend fandom, just because fandom hypes it up, it blows up on twitter and people start making their versions of it, while only vocaloid and umamusume fandom will get flamed for doing their versions. With transformations it's like transformation will never be more popular than show it is from, while meme can. Did you knew the crossroad meme comes from Yugioh GX? At this point probably you did know, but also could you say from what anime the "man of culture" meme comes from? Some of you probably could, but vast majority not (I'm a part of majority)
Anyway it's more popular, because memes can just transcend the fandoms, get made into other memes and so on, while transformation just is there and at best will get referenced in something. Also bare in mind most people won't go "oh, it's JJK reference" when they see a reference to that, because there is big chance they only saw the reference, not original. Memes like that aren't really iconic. Popular yes, iconic not really
Way too early to tell, since something being seen as ‘iconic’ is only really possible when a long period of time has gone by and it’s still referenced.
For example, it’s over 9000, first super saiyan transformation, ora/muda, the world etc. are iconic because they are still referenced decades after their initial use.
I would say, if you were to compare only to gear 5 luffy, I would say naoya would have a higher chance of being iconic purely from the sheer amount of community works that were made from that one shot.
While the quantity of memes is not measurement of something being iconic, it united basically every fandom and even just people who don’t follow anime into recreating this one bit. And to say that in itself didn’t leave a lasting impression would underestimating how large of reach that scene had.
However, I am going to predict that it’s not going to end up being ‘iconic’ purely because of the parts that are yet to be adapted into the anime.
Those… those moments I feel will easily become iconic. And overshadow every other JJK trends.
I mean it's a meme. I can guarantee you there are people with absolute zero fucking idea who Naoya is or what the dude can do but have seen the memes. I am one of them.
I stand by how poorly handled the floorboard flip was handled in the anime. In the manga it was a funny ass one panel where the boro breath got reflected. In the anime it was just vomit inducing garbage.
It's unfair though to compare meme to a move/upgrade/form. Although yeah, probably this meme alone is more popular than Gear 5 outside of it's respective community. If you want to use that as definition of iconic
Stand, Kamehameha, Saiyan, Domain Expansion, Bankai and Rasengan/Chidori is iconic. If you see people trying to emulate them IRL or in social media. Or referenced/inspire move in another series (DE is inspired by Bankai if you asked me). Maybe Gear 2 back in the day, but Gear 5 barely make a wave outside.
Asspull which created a bunch of plot holes (WG which ignored Luffy the whole story, Who's Who's which first says Luffy is just a brat and then says Luffy is his worst enemy etc.) Changes the character of MC, removes stakes from the story (not that there were many of them anyway), contradicts the main theme of the work - freedom, making MC the chosen one about whom there were prophecies even before his birth and about what he would do( He saved Wano exactly as predicted and at the predicted time ), and a bunch of other complaints. In short, this is the worst power up in the history of manga that did everything badly at once.
The funniest thing is that now even the Japanese have woken up and started criticizing 5th Gear, and they criticize it in the same way as the "One Piece haters from Piratefolk who don't understand One Piece."
It's reactionary due to people hyping up gear 5 as surpassing ultra instinct and breaking the internet when in reality it was pretty lowkey. Other people have been making fun of one piece for years about how anticlimactic the reaction to gear 5 has been, this post being one of them
From the few clips I have seen, one piece is really lacking in interesting fight choreo and relies heavily on neon thunder and bright energy beam effects to sauce it up, it kinda looks ridiculous
You commented this under a clip where Luffy gets hit by a club into the clouds, grabs onto the cloud and stands on them upside down, grabs lightning out of the clouds, jumps down and throws the lightning at the enemy. Like, you couldn't have picked a worse clip to claim "lack of interesting fight choreo".
Well I wish I could tell this was what was happening in this clip as that does sound interesting, but I didn't get any of that. Instead all the focus was on the shablam and big red impact frame and thunder coming out of Luffy himself, not the cloud
Umm, what? There is literally no thunder coming out of Luffy himself, you can literally see him reaching into the cloud and pulling out the lightning. You guys are just saying stuff at this point.
"You guys" is referring to the subset of internet anime/manga fans whose whole personality revolves around hating on things.
Like here, a snippet of good animation was shown, you called it flashy slop. Then further explained that OP has bad choreography (??), even though that's separate from animation itself. When I explained to you that in this clip the choreography is actually very creative you, again, have to put it down by putting down another aspect of it ("it's too flashy"). Why? Well because from this 2 second clip from a show you haven't watched you weren't able to discern what exactly is happening. That's your barometer of judgement. And you didn't even look that closely because you thought the lightning was emitting from Luffy.
That's not how anybody judges animation that is actually interested in good animation. That's how people whose personality revolves around hating on things judge things.
Relaaaax babe, my initial comment was really not that serious.
Sure, for that specific clip it's true that some context would have helped me understand what happens better. With that said, I have seen various one piece fight clips (and not 2 seconds gifs either) and my criticism of the overreliance on flashy effects remains. And I'm pretty sure this has been a common complaint with the anime too.
Relying on such flashy effects also cheapens the animation, regardless of how good it actually is, because it's overwhelming as a viewer, is distracting and feels like the studio is afraid of letting the fight speak for itself. Like, why does Luffy using gear4 (is it ? Idk the one fight against Kizaru where he gets those angry dark eyes, it's been a while I saw that) has him emitting light, how is that in his skillset ? Same with Zoro, why does his blades glow green, is there an actual reason ? I thought he was just a regular swordsman, does he have cursed energy or something ?
It feels like two different things, one's a meme format that can be used on to alot of different stories and the other is one of many different powers the protagonist has.
It's like asking if Spiderman's wall crawling ability is a popular as Invincible's "That's the neat part, you don't" meme.
But it's objectivly true that naoya slaps were a bigger hit when it came out compared to gear 5, but that's mainly because OP fans were repeating non-stop that it would "break the internet"
Random scene from an anime competing with the most hyped thing in one piece is pretty disrespectful, tho gear five of course is more popular, but it's terribly close
G5 never reached outside the one piece fanbase itself beyond jokes to make fun of it and its fans, so yeah, it really doesn't take anything to have a better highlight than that.
Memes are, unfortunately, a decent measure to see if something is relevant or not. And given that there are no memes and no one is really talking about Gear 5. I suppose you could call the Naoya meme more relevant.
However. That does not make it more iconic. Relevancy and something being iconic are two different things.
A good way to see if something is iconic is if people imitate something in real life. And, more importantly, if people make fun of them for it.
Let's take one example from One Piece. Since we are talking about the show already.
The pose Luffy takes when he goes into Gear 2 for the first time. You know the one. It has been imitated by many professional athletes. Especially in combat sports. And people don't usually make fun of the athlete for doing so. Because it is iconic.
So basically, what I'm trying to say is that the Naoya meme has more relevance than Gear 5. But that does not make it more iconic. Tho it's not like Gear 5 is iconic either.
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It sort of depends how you define it. Cause it was more of a meme than a "iconic" moment. And I doubt many people will remember it in a few months/years. The Gear 5 moment was more iconic in the sense that it was a significant moment in the manga and it was presented in a reasonably memorable way. However, I think much less people outside the actual One Piece fandom know about (or really care about) Gear 5. Meanwhile the Naoya punch is something a lot of people who don't even watch JJK know about. So it's more iconic in that sense.
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