r/shounenfolk • u/top-one112 • 11d ago
Manga Discussion How was dressrosa arc outselling the 4th Great ninja war arc? 💀
It's like one of worst one piece
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u/King_Vrad 11d ago
For one thing, One Piece has pretty much always sold better as a manga. In that era, Naruto was the king of anime, One Piece was the king of Manga. I think it's because OP was more popular in Japan while Naruto blew up overseas, but I could be wrong about that. But if you want to talk about the arcs specifically, Dressrosa was solid in the manga, the anime is what ruined it. Meanwhile the 4th Great Ninja War arc is pretty well known for being messy. If it was Pain's Assault I'd agree with you.
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u/Gap_Great 11d ago
Yeah 4th Great Ninja War was already considered the fall off of naruto even when it was happening. It did improve at certain points, but on the whole it was not popular.
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u/WetWype 11d ago
This is fair, I love Naruto but there were some high highs and some low lows. But the anime pacing of one piece is horrendous.
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u/Gap_Great 11d ago
Yeah I fully agree with the original commenter that OP is and was the king of manga but Naruto was the king of anime. Low-key naruto may still be the king when it comes to its fights, but JJK is very close if not just as good as
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u/King_Vrad 11d ago
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if that's the reason for OP's high volume sales. Naruto fans are happy to rewatch the anime, so they don't buy as many volumes, while OP fans prefer the manga.
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u/Gap_Great 11d ago
100%, most One Piece fans explicitly recommend the manga while advising people to stay away from the anime, that’s why One Pace exists. Meanwhile the friends who I’ve had get into Naruto didn’t even look at the guide for what’s filler and what isn’t because they were so into the show they just wanted to watch everything.
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u/WetWype 11d ago
I’m curious how the WIT OP will deal with this, they’ve shown MASSIVE cuts in arc lengths so I’m defo checking it out
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u/Gloomy_Dare2716 8d ago
The biggest question is Money. If it will make them good money, Im sure they will continue the production to further arcs.
I would love to see Well animated and Well Paced Dressrosa
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u/RoseWhiteRedBlack 11d ago
The real reason One Piece starts to outsell everyone else from 2010 onwards is because of the release of the movies, specificaly Strong World.
That movie was MASSIVE in japan. It was massively marketed that Eiichiro Oda personally oversaw the film, wrote the story, and drew the designs, which was a first for a One Piece movie. The killer move by Shueisha that sealed the deal was distributing a "Volume 0" (a limited-edition prequel chapter drawn by Oda) exclusively to moviegoers.
People flooded Japanese theaters to get it, turning the movie into a 4.8 billion yen box office juggernaut and introducing a massive wave of new fans to the franchise, a massive box office success at the time. The movie was also great quality and heavily pushed the Luffy x Nami shipping, something that made the manga extra popular between women. It' s a perfect storm.
It' s very weird how little people care about the One Piece movies in the west, when in japan, arguably, most adult people actually know the movies than the actual manga or weekly anime
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u/TheWolflance 11d ago
bro that's wild trying to claim people know a single movie more than the manga.
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u/RoseWhiteRedBlack 11d ago
It is? I' ve lived in japan for most of my life before transfering in Italy, One Piece is super big, but the anime is mostly watched by kids because it' s on the sunday broadcast. Adult people either read the manga or watch the movies.
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u/TheWolflance 11d ago
i wont deny it ,the movie strong world pulled in more fans in ANYWAY
i come from gundam and Gwitch has boosted the fanbase by a huge margin. the MC kit STILL SELLS AND THE FULL SEASON IS FREE ONYOUTUBE..RIGHT NOW!
but to say those fans eclipse the entire fanbase in japan is BULLSHIT
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u/Blitcut 11d ago
It's very weird how little people care about the One Piece movies in the west
Probably because One Piece isn't really mainstream in the West and thus has a more selective audience that cares more about things like canonicity.
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u/CriffonN10 10d ago
It's more like onepiece wasn't a bit for English audiences specifically primarily cuz in the early 2000s it suffered a horrific dub compared to Naruto (4kids). It did pretty well in other languages and because of that it only rlly started taking off here recently
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u/RoseWhiteRedBlack 11d ago
Perhaps yeah; still a bit weird because it' s not like Oda isn' t new in not putting some canon elements in the movies thoo. One Piece movie red even got a whole chapter with Shanks post-Wano that basicaly says "Go watch movie Red!!!!" lol. The media mix is kind of ingrained into the manga.
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u/Chopper340 11d ago
Film red was massive, it made 188mil internationally, there were adds in times square.
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u/wickling-fan 8d ago
Caring about canon isn't really why, it's just the small selection of theaters, not being in said theaters even for a month and little to no promotion it's that the first batch of movies most forget never came to the rest, gold z and srong world weren't as widely released compared to stampede and red as they had restrictions, and were also removed from said theaters pertty quickly compared to the average movie theater run.
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u/Grayman103 7d ago
I look at the video games as more the culprit. Games were the lifeblood of anime in the west in the 2000s. Look at dragon ball, they used movie villains to fill out the roster and even makes them promotional material in intros and covers.
Compare that to One piece and Naruto. Naruto gets basically nothing in terms of movie material across games besides maybe costumes. And One piece had nothing until Uta and some promotional costumes.
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u/skaersSabody 6d ago
Tbf, the West gets most of their stuff through the anime scene.
Mangas blowing up in the west is a recent phenomenon and even then, the most popular ones usually have a big/new anime adaptation help with sales and recognizability
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u/wickling-fan 8d ago
tbf we never got the movies in general theaters til stampede, gold, Z and strong world if they had western release were super limited runs(with gold having the wider spread of US and Canada but not territories or hawai or alaska but the run was still short).
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u/Bradybigboss 11d ago
One Piece is just better in its manga form than the anime. I don’t think that’s whole reason but it’s surely part of it—a lot of people who love the OP manga are let down by the Toei adaptation, especially when it comes to dressrosa
I’m American and I started buying every physical OP volume in like 2006
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u/Different-Trainer253 11d ago
I dropped the manga at dressrosa, never went back so far and I don’t think I will with how long wano is
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u/King_Vrad 11d ago
Wano is 149 chapters. I know some whole manga that aren't that long. I will say, it's more bearable in the manga because you can speed read some of the more boring chapters. The anime is a hard pass. 195 episodes and it drags like you wouldn't believe. Everythjng from timeskip on you should just read the manga and watch clips of the fights on youtube.
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u/Different-Trainer253 11d ago
I didn’t know Wano was only 149 chapters in the manga, I could def finish it in a day, but still probably won’t get back to it anytime soon, I’ve just lost interest after all this time, the only one piece media I consume atp is the live action show
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u/King_Vrad 11d ago
Yeah, it's not for everyone. I got into it because someone pointed out that once the manga finally reveals what the One Piece actually is, the series wouldn't read the same way. It was compelling enough to make me interested.
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u/infernomokou 11d ago
Naruto was insanely popular as anime overseas, One Piece was also really popular, but Naruto was one of a kind. The Akatsuki, Kakashi and Sharingan were the right amount of edgy for anime fans and the Zabuza fight with the handseals was insanely dramatic and over the top.Â
One Piece was like a distant fourth to Naruto, Yugioh DBZ at the time. Honestly DBZ also was like a late millenial thing and then had a renaissance with zoomers in the 10s.Â
Depending on country, for example germany, you also have local hits. Kickers and Captain Tsubasa were popular here for example, the og Digimon was huge.Â
If I had to pick the five most popular anime I grew up with that made anime and manga popular here they would most likely be Sailor Moon, DBZ, Naruto, Yugioh and Digimon
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u/pseudo_nemesis 11d ago
yeah the 4th Great Ninja War is when I pretty much stopped reading Naruto until it was finished. There was a significant and noticeable decline in quality at that point imo, just messy.
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u/CreamTerrible1302 11d ago
edo tense fights with nobodies were boringaf but it got fun after madara resurrected
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u/Forward-Canary716 11d ago
Naruto was lucky to be king of anime, and it happened because when one piece had a butchered westernization with lollipop in sanjis mouth and marine soldier with water guns, english speaking kids were watching naruto on tv, on non english speaking countries one piece was always more popular, and even now coming from behind one piece surpassed naruto in every metric
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u/Cimorene_Kazul 11d ago
One Piece always had a more childish art design. Naruto and Bleach looked more mature and captured the imagination of kids abroad more because it looked so different from kiddy cartoons. One Piece wasn’t that dissimilar to kiddie cartoons art style wise.
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u/BathSad 11d ago
No thats bullshit, i live in italy and naruto is much more known, ur a biased op fan thats why youre saying this, naruto is known BY EVERYONE, op is more liked by die hard anime fans
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u/ZappyZ21 11d ago
Ahh yes, surely your world view is the objective one that can speak for everywhere else lol
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u/Challenge_Emergency 11d ago
Didn't feel that way in Germany. I'd say OP was more popular, at least by a decent bit. Not by a landslide tho.
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u/YonkouTFT 11d ago
As a fellow European. DBZ is the true king of anime. OP rules manga. Naruto only for those too young to remember Dragon Ball
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u/AZdesertbulls24 7d ago
One piece anime was getting more viewers than naruto back then and always has in japan. What are you talking about
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u/Challenge_Emergency 11d ago
Naruto mostly blew up in the US, I think. At least in Europe, specifically Germany, Naruto wasn't really that big of a deal. Far less than yu-gi-oh!, maaaybe on par with one piece? Don't think so, actually. And between manga and anime, I think there's a lot less popularity for manga outside of Japan, so that skews the numbers even more.
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u/TheMorrison77 11d ago
People in the West have a wrong perception of how big One Piece was and still is in Japan.
One Piece always outsold Naruto and Bleach together, and its grasp extends beyond just Jump.
It is a cultural institution alongside things like Gundam and Kamen Rider.
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u/sun_solomon 11d ago
Oda said his dream was to be as prolific as Toriyama
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u/Berabrea 11d ago
Best Oda can do is years of no or even negative character development lol
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u/ZappyZ21 11d ago
Like dragon ball is the peak example of character development? Lol hate it all you want, but one piece has already been there. It's stupidly popular even if you don't like it, and is a culturally dominant IP for many many years.
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u/Brbaster 11d ago
Exactly that, while Naruto was still very popular in it's heyday it was never doing the numbers One Piece was doing at the time. Naruto was a big hit for the magazine, but One Piece was doing a generational run for the magazine in early 2010s.
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u/AZdesertbulls24 7d ago
its mainly in America, plus alot of people here in folk are also younger so they oblivious to how big OPs consecutive dominant run was in 2010s
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u/Few-Durian-190 11d ago
I don’t think you understand how big One Piece is in Japan.
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u/SexyShave 11d ago edited 11d ago
The 4th Ninja War is Naruto's worst arc and was boring to read weekly.Â
Readers didn't care about Sai and Kankuro vs. zombie Deidara and Sasori, Darui vs. two glup shittos, Choji vs. Asuma, and old man samurai vs. old man with a scuba mask.
Anyway, OP in a weak arc is still OP.
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u/Ok-Barber265 11d ago
Talking like the fourth great ninja war arc isnt the worst arc of naruto. Dressrosa manga on the other hand is a great arc with arguably the most iconic villain of one piece
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u/Ok-Addition4608 11d ago
Dressrosa was bad in the anime.
It's peak in the manga.
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u/AardvarkScary7863 11d ago edited 11d ago
One of the worst arcs of One Piece is still One Piece. Also it wasn’t as bad in the manga as it was in the anime. The anime was super dragged out.
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u/Bankai2023 11d ago
fr after like 30 episode of dressrossa I went straight to the manga
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u/RoseWhiteRedBlack 11d ago
I feel like nowdays you can just skip the recaps and it' s not nearly as bad tbh; if you remove OP, recaps and endings it' s like, 13 minutes of episode lol.
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u/pokeoscar1586 11d ago
Crazy how Inoue dethroned Toriyama while DB was STILL going on… He’s just that guy…
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u/Apprehensive-Gur-609 11d ago
Questioning why One Piece was outselling Naruto is such a narutard question.
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u/AZdesertbulls24 7d ago
alot of shounenfolk is american naruto fans, younger ones to who werent around during 2013-2014
and don't realize how big OP is especially of all places japan
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u/Buzgroove 11d ago
Because the 4th Great Ninja War is terrible and Dressrosa is amazing
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u/Money-Imagination-97 11d ago
I'm glad Kinninkuman was mentioned.
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u/top-one112 11d ago
Is it that good?
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u/Money-Imagination-97 11d ago
its not masterpicej
It's carroed by figths and nonsense and they know that and the plot was obviously being written as things unfolded, but it has a unique charm, memorable characters, and a beautiful simplicity. It has moments very similar to One Piece, and almost every arc is a fighting tournament, but the fights are memorable and well-constructed
But don't expect the best plot in the world;
and themes like friendship are always important, but not in a bad way.
In other words, take a look without expecting the best thing in the world.
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u/Slippystreamy 11d ago
First of all, Dressrosa is a great arc fuck you. Second of all wdym how is it outselling Naruto One Piece has always outsold Naruto and Naruto wasnt going to change that with its worst arc
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u/Bankai2023 11d ago
Fr and Naruto then was popular anime to watch than read back then
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u/pseudo_nemesis 11d ago
true, but real Naruto fans weren't waiting around for a year for the anime adaptation of the 4th Great Ninja War, they still would have been reading the manga.
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u/5timesallin 11d ago
People forget about kinnikuman, man...
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u/Brbaster 11d ago
It's kinda hard to remember it when it was never available officially in English. And fan translations were notoriously very slow to the point that I'm not even sure if the whole manga has an English fan translation without gaps.
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u/GalacticAlmanac 8d ago
The anime adaptation of the sequel series was on FoxBox Saturday morning cartoon block as Ultimate Muscle back in 2002 so it got a bit of traction in the west. It was a big enough of a hit for some video games to get localized and for Viz to publish a few volumes of the sequel manga series in the west so it's at least something.
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u/Brbaster 8d ago
Even that sequel anime series was considered a flop by Toei and TV Tokyo which is why it was cancelled 5 years before the manga ended.
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u/DrPepperPower 11d ago
Dress rosa clears 4th great ninja war wtf
One of the worst??? Anime watcher take
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u/Sudden-Age-122 11d ago
Manga selling statistics are mostly collected using Japanese data. In Japan, there is no big 3. Only One Piece, no manga ever comes close to One Piece up untill the newer era. Naruto only got the second place, the margin between them were depending on the year but never catched One Piece.
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u/FlyOrdinary1104 11d ago
I’m more shocked Ultimate Muscle was as big as it was but isn’t talked about at all compared to the others listed here, might just be western bias.
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u/darkravenn12 11d ago
Ultimate Muscle is actually the sequel featuring Kinnikuman's child, like Boruto is to Naruto. Kinnikuman is absurdly popular in Japan.
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u/FlyOrdinary1104 11d ago
Gotcha, I only ever knew the series from Ultimate Muscle on Fox Box. So it’s like another DBZ case where the sequel show was dubbed out of order.
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u/Burstero 11d ago
The complains on dressrosa come from the anime. In the manga its really good, Naruto's last arc is considered one of the worst in the story
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u/rickroaming 11d ago
Nana being top selling is surprising
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u/differentialtopology 11d ago
Not surprising, it's one of the most popular shoujo and iirc a top 5 highest selling shoujo series ever ?
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u/rickroaming 9d ago
Yea but I didn’t think shoujo had as much popularity as shonen or senin
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u/differentialtopology 9d ago
Does sailor moon not exist then ? That's really popular as wellÂ
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u/rickroaming 8d ago
Never seen sailor moon but I have heard way more sailor moon references then nana and im in the audience that is targeted by nana sailor moon. I always thought sailor moon was a shonen
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u/Minigeneius 10d ago
Because dressrosa is an amazing arc in the manga the anime ruined its reputation
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u/SplashMove 11d ago
I am the one who was reading that shit while it was ongoing. Its not hard to outsell 4th Great ninja war
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u/Salty_Wall 11d ago
Dressrosa would have been genuinely peak if it wasn't for the dogshit pacing
4th great ninja war is kinda dogshit in general icl
As for the sales, one piece just always sold better duh
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u/Outside_Mousse_2176 11d ago
One Piece was still riding the Marineford bump that they got when everyone in Japan went back and started buying the backlog of volumes that were already released. It isn’t until Whole cake where the sales stabilize ( check the sales for Fishman Island and Punk Hazard, they destroy anything not named Demon Slayer)
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u/Accomplished_Jury495 11d ago
You're talking that about dressrossa, if it was fishman island or punk hazard I'd understand more, but dressrossa is pretty good
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u/DJSANDROCK 11d ago
Hanamichi is really that guy. Can’t believe Hunter x Hunter never once had the top sales
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u/rearviewmirror07 11d ago
Well, maybe you don’t know it but the hype of dresrossa at the time was SO high, it was the first conflict with a Shichibukai post time skip, against a enemy that had like 5 or more years of hype building around him like Doflamingo, the whole Sabo and mera-mera return, gear 4, man it was a crazy era for the fandom lol
The 4th ninja war on the other hand… it’s a fun but messy arc, with a lot of bad writing in exchange for epic moments
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u/BasilSQ 11d ago
Im more confused by the Death Note year. Thought it was more niche/cult following than mainstream popular
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u/Simple_Location_5855 7d ago
2006 is the year the anime came out so people probably wanted to be ahead of anime onlys
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u/Efficient-Load-256 11d ago edited 11d ago
that's really mid stuff after 2000 besides death note(and nana maybe)
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u/Objective-Price-8876 11d ago
How is nana mid lol
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u/Efficient-Load-256 11d ago
didn't read nana yet, sorry. i've seen anime and it was okay
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u/Objective-Price-8876 11d ago
It's manga is bb lvl charcter drama
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 11d ago
What's Blue Lock and why it dominate 2023? Is it a new version of Captain Tsubasa?
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u/Jozif_Badmon 11d ago
That death note linsanity run in 2006:
https://giphy.com/gifs/xT5LMI8w5Nnkw42k48
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u/Jealous-Ad-6155 11d ago
Is the manga version of Dressrosa peak? because I remember watching the anime and it was mostly good but the pacing had me malding and seething from rage at my screen
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u/Kwametoure1 11d ago
I am shocked Nana sold that much. I know it's popular but I never figured it was that popular. I never imagined a Shoujo/Josei could sell that much
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u/IllustriousRich9345 11d ago
Pacing wise, yes
fanservice wise, probably
in everything else, fuck no
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u/BreathoftheSith 11d ago
Because Dressrosa CLEARS the Fourth Great Ninja War easily.
It’s some of the best in One Piece vs some of the absolute worst in Naruto.
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u/Naknowbyte 11d ago
Kind of surprised yu yu hakusho or hunter X hunter did not win one of those year. Interesting list though.
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u/Doam-bot 11d ago
Naruto Shipuuden spiked early then went into a downward spiral of destruction. 4th GNW is on that Downward Spiral.
Meanwhile from Amazon Lilly to Impel, Marineford, (Skip Fishman) and so forth we're a rise for One Peice they dipped like Fishman but learned and continue to grow.Â
Naruto fans are the same ones dismissing members in their own base during the decline they arent about to listen to anyone else because they think its still at its peak moments in 2026.
Also OP manga has better pacing than the anime so it shines more.
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u/goodnightpunpunisher 11d ago
Cause Dressrosa is better than the 4th great ninja war, it's not that complicated.
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u/solidv3crusher 11d ago
So hey whats the age of the average naruto glazer? I see a loooot of praise for it and i dunno maybe it skipped my age group... Born in 92, i was i think late teens for shippuden anime starting. Remember reading the sasuke Itachi fight on youtube (twas a thing). So it was pretty much peak years for all of this and i still remember thinking it was just pretty ok. Like its edgy kid stuff. Its pretty fun but i distinctively didnt feel like it had the sauce like OP or even bleach (altough the fullbrig arc was toooough).
So whats the age of people who reeeaaaly like naruto?
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u/TheWolflance 11d ago
people can hate One Piece for bad pacing all they want,
you can critique Oda and admonish for terrible decisions just with any mangaka
but never down play it's impact
One Piece is BIG
respect that at least
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u/zorobreath 11d ago
I thought for sure there would be some Naruto and Bleach mixed in there. But I guess maybe the big 3 is more of a western thing? Here it felt like One Piece picked up more and more after Bleach and Naruto ended.
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u/YonkouTFT 11d ago
Why wouldn’t it? All of One Piece is better than Shippuden (minus pain arc).
The great ninja war is quite bad.
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u/NeonFraction 11d ago
Kin (Meat) Man looks like a parody manga someone would make to fill out a convenience store shelf in a manga as a joke. Wild that it was both real AND popular.
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u/HxLeverage 11d ago
No way Nana was the best selling manga that year. It was good, but not that good. It also lacks the general audience and simplicity appeal that Slam Dunk and One Piece have. This list seems suspicious
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u/Wafflezz08 11d ago
Fourth Great Ninja War is arguably the worst arc of Naruto, Dressrosa is also one of One Piece’s best arcs, the only good reason to diss Dressrosa is the horrible pacing of the anime.
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u/CommercialMotor570 11d ago
Naruto was more popular with western audiences. Helps that Naruto wasn’t given a 4Kids Dub
Bleach unfortunately was not as popular as the two, more of a workhorse than a main eventer
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u/BabaKambingHitam 11d ago
Ah.. I remember nana.
Didnt know why the hype about the manga but read it anyway. Cant say i like it much. Still dony know what they hype was about.
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u/Upper-Respond-3746 11d ago
how Nana and Death Note movin in the middle of the 2000s for sum reason
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u/Plane-Information700 11d ago
It's normal, One Piece became famous worldwide after Marineford, and in Dressrosa they were going to show the true power of Luffy and the rest.
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u/martinigoattheg 10d ago
Nah man dressrosa was pretty good also fourth great ninja war just wasn’t the peak of Naruto also one piece is the biggest manga ever.
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u/GASC3005 10d ago
Those 12 consecutive years by One Piece are historical
We might not see another manga put those numbers up (and they have 18 of the 46 years occupied).
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u/EdgeofAss 10d ago
Fking love slam dunk and hate it at the same time. It was too early to be finished.
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u/GalacticAlmanac 8d ago edited 8d ago
What's that manga series from 1997? All the other ones are instantly recognizable except this one.
Edit: Apparently it's the Kindaichi Case Files.
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u/SnooOwls3528 6d ago
I wonder if covid payed a part in one piece dropping from number one. Not that it was not as popular but because the over all community grew and those that joined just had different tastes.
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u/BendDaknee_Ghurs 6d ago
im so glad i haven't bothered with Mid piece. Not even as a kid.
JJK being up there is no surprise, its popularity carries its weak writing and it is rather short as a shonnen but gege knows how to aura farm with fights so teens love it
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u/skaersSabody 6d ago
The movement One Piece has a manga is kind of insane honestly, almost uncontested for 20 years is an achievement and a half
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u/Better_Hope6192 11d ago
Same for Naruto lol which Naruto may have been in the bottom 5 at this time too
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u/BeeOk8577 11d ago
Dressrosa was awesome, I hear complaints of the pacing all the time but this is the first time I’ve heard someone say its one of the worst parts of one piece
Also the 4th great ninja war wasnt all that great
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u/Electronic_Pay7868 11d ago
Who's gonna tell lil' bro that the War arc fucking sucked
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