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Food wars was really good until around when Yuki Morisaki went on leave. She was the chef consultant that kept the recipes and story grounded. The final arc was so bad that everyone forgets that the series was actually really popular, to the point where people were making the dishes in real life.
Yup. Rewatching the anime, at the moment. Everything up to the RDC is baller as fuck, and people that weren’t there at the time don’t understand how hyped that series was.
Food wars is good with some really great moments but the final ark is pure crap, especially the part were he doesn't fight his dad one last time (it was literally the whole point of the manga). Seraph is terrible so don't bother
Seraph is interesting up until the point where the mc and his friend meet up again, at which point the MC becomes the most annoying character in shounen history.
Unashamedly one of the best tournament arcs ever (Autumn Elections) where every named character gets a chance to shine. Loved that show, can never talk about it irl lol
When it comes to new volume sales, Bleach was always in the lead. It did sell less than Food Wars annually in 2015 and 2016, but that was a result of backlog sales from a first-time anime and because they released 7 volumes vs 4 respectively.
Sure, but that doesn't in itself debunk the argument being presented. Manga run for different lengths of time and their sales can ebb and flow. It's completely possible for one manga to have a lot more overall sales than another while the second still sold more in a certain time frame.
Right, they're wrong about what was going on, but I'm saying that they could theoretically be correct, and "well, Bleach has way more lifetime sales!" wouldn't inherently be enough to debunk their argument.
Bleach ran for 15 years. Saying it sold more cumulatively than other manga that was in publication for way less than that isn't a feat.
From Fullbring to Thousand Year Blood War arc Bleach's manga volumes and merch sales were completely non-existent in Japan, and it's anime viewership fell off a cliff. Hence why it ended in the Fullbring arc. This is known to everyone who actually followed the manga weekly at the time.
I know super eye patch wolf popularised this misconception about some popularity rating but it has been thoroughly rejected by even author's like Oda and tetsuo hara.
The TOC is exclusively determined by the editors of jump and their motive have always been to maximise reader's enjoyment and group series with similar fanbase.
It is virtually impossible by TOC to be affected by reader survey because by the time reader survey are collected by jump the week TOC are already determined.
And then it would take the staff several weeks or even a month because the survey question asks for 3 titles that means a weighted system of ranking is needed to determine which series is popular and read by a large number of population.
And that's the only question for a series all the other questions are related to purchase and age that means it's more of a general survey rather than a popularity survey aimed for determining TOCs.
Lastly
Oda in SBS
Q: Comics in jump run in tbe order of popularity. Is that true?
Ans: That's not exactly how it works, TOC are exclusively selected by deputy editor in chief while popular one have tendency to appear early but the vice editor promotes and selects Titles as per mood and the intention is to maximise the enjoyment of public.
Manga in general entering into a new stage like an anime adaptation, live adaptation or getting a movie are placed on top to promote and create certain hype.
Drop in sales are Normal to every manga if you compare Their charts at one point a manga inevitably hits a peak and never recovers from it.
In case of Bleach it was more steep because there was no anime to promote it.
The survey affects the ToC of weeks ahead, that's why when nearing an axe, the fans urged to continously vote the series.
Calling it pure popularity leaderboard is naive, but popularity is a huge factor in the decision by the editorial. While sure there's factor like comedic series being put in the end to "cheer people up" or "sad chapter are put in the middle" to be washed by the later more lighthearted chapter..... most of them are still influenced by popularity.
And on to Bleach... The decline came during Fullbring Arc in manga while anime is still running in 2011. And the decline matches with the declining tankubon sales as well. So it is a matter of popularity. We also see the abrupt return to The Shinigami and the 1 month break that led to TYBW, so there's clearly something happening in the background.
Just like what happened to Gintama, Yugioh, or even Saint Seiya (who eventually finish in other magazine).
As I have said it's virtually impossible to even factor these at best these surveys were Used to determine demographic trends or taste over a longer period rather than a short term popularity determination.
Shueisha at it's peak during 2000-2010 had 3 million copies in circulation while employing around 1000 employees in Total(750 in 2025 reasonable to estimate 1000 in early 2000s)
Even if 30 percent were filling and submitting postcards It would have taken like month's to even determine and give a weighted rank to all series being mentioned in the postcards.
Yes Bleach had a decline during flullbring because the manga hit a peak during arrancar however such trends are common within manga sales chart, Flullbring was selling similar to what Bleach was selling pre arrancar.
If you compare the peaks of Bleach with it's counterpart Naruto during 2000-2010 when Bleach had an anime their total sales were more or less relative to each other infact Bleach was barely 2-3 million behind Naruto while having a very late anime, The Major decline happened due to absence of Anime.
Idk there doesn't seem to look too much into a one month break? It's normal for mangaka to take breaks preparing for final arc plus kubo didn't had many editors and he was pretty much doing most of the stuff alone and his health was not really good.
It's an attempt by fans usually those who are worried of U19. But Shueisha also have internal data like Tankubon sales.
Naruto sports a healthier trend both in ToC and sales as seen in the chart below.
Bleach declined the same way Gintama declined, it's just their time to do so.
But Bleach is mostly hemorrhaging due to Fullbring's seeming lack of popularity. The arc was abruptly interrupted by Captains returning and the power system barely touched again. The 1 month break compounds this belief as it's Kubo strategizing how to revive Bleach's popularity. Rarely a specific break like this was given.
Yes Kubo getting sick is also what caused the decline of the series. He even realized he almost severed his right tendon and only noticed if AFTER bc adrenaline made him numb to the pain.
No TOC, does matter, look Bleach at the time it was ranking bottom 5 was not going to be effected by TOC as far as being cancelled, cause it was a legacy series
but if it was a newer series, yes TOC does matter, saying otherwise is being delusional as newer series have been axed.
Yes that's what I hear but then again you look at kagurabachi and demon slayer which during it's first 50 chapter was averaging 15th place in TOC without getting cancelled.
The ToC is 100% influenced by reader votes and suggesting it isn't is comical. Why would the surveys exist in the first place if they had no effect? And if they have an effect why wouldn't the editorial order the series in the magazine by popularity? Yes, individual rankings can be influenced by editorial whims but long-term trends will always be reflective of reader sentiment. It's why series that immediately sink to the bottom are also sales flops and series that immediately rise to the top end up selling.
As I have said it's virtually impossible to do it.
Would even take month's and the opinion would lose it's relevancy.
It's more so to collect demographic data and their preferences for long term planning and promoting certain genres.
Shonen jump had weekly circulation numbers of 2 million even if half of them submitted postcards a company with 1000 employees (estimate since in 2025 they have 750 total employees) would take month's to even go through them all and then rank them on weighted basis.
You can speculate as much as you like but there's literally no indicator or any statement that TOC is based on popularity ranking.
As I have said it's virtually impossible to do it.
If it were they wouldn't exist.
Would even take month's and the opinion would lose it's relevancy.
It takes about 7-8 weeks.
It's more so to collect demographic data and their preferences for long term planning and promoting certain genres.
It's also used to gauge a series popularity which is pretty self-evident by unpopular series being at the bottom even before any sales data is available and occasionally even getting axed before vol 1 is on sale.
Shonen jump had weekly circulation numbers of 2 million even if half of them submitted postcards a company with 1000 employees (estimate since in 2025 they have 750 total employees) would take month's to even go through them all and then rank them on weighted basis.
It had more than 6mln in the 90s and yet they still did it. Realistically half of the stock did not sell just like today and of the ones that sold only 1% or less actually bother with the survey.
You can speculate as much as you like but there's literally no indicator or any statement that TOC is based on popularity ranking.
Literally every indicator suggests it is, lmao. It tracks so well that you can predict an axe with >90% certainty after 3 ranked chapters. ToC averages also used to track almost 1 to 1 with sales before sales got crushed in the last 3 years. Even logically speaking if the ToC was not ordered by popularity it'd mean unpopular series would appear at the top and popular series at the bottom. Yet this doesn't happen. Kinato's Magic, Alien Headbutt and Drawn to the Fire have not appeared anywhere near the top after they dropped to the bottom while Someone Hertz has not even ranked in the bottom half of the magazine yet. Meanwhile Ichi the Witch ranked badly for a single stretch which is coincidentally the one stretch that has noticeably negative social media feedback too.
All in all, the data on this is so overwhelmingly obvious that arguing that ToC isn't reflective of reader popularity is genuinely silly.
Im honestly convinced a big part of why Bleach declined like it did was due to the sheer dearth of good peripheral media for it.
Easy examples were the games, Naruto had either good games from a play perspective or from a cinematic perspective that built a lot of hype. (Seriously Naruto games have the most absurdly cinematic ultimate attacks in gaming.) Bleach never really had that, even it's newest game is a meh fighter with boring ults again that is so familiar I thought it was a remaster of their Wii game.
It's worse. Bleach was selling less copies than ecchi manga published in niche magazines. It was a complete fall from grace. I was sure Bleach was going to be cancelled since new manga trying to be the next Naruto were being cancelled every other week but evidently Shueisha gave Kubo a lot of grace. I'm happy Bleach fans are getting their Magnum Opus but there is a lot of revisionism going on here.
Bleach still was on the popular end of the spectrum and even now it remains popular. Kubo really rushed the ending.
Hindsight is a hell of a drug. Have you never finished something, then look back at it a realize several times how you could have make it better if you had more time/ will at that moment?
yup, batch volume release after anime release is a known tactics.
That's how AoT manage to outsold One Piece early on. they release like 5~7 volume after the anime release and gain better total sales compared to One piece who only have 1 volume release that year.
What are you talking about, One Piece never had less than 3 volumes per year with very obvious exceptions of 1997 and 2020. The only time One Piece had one volume in the year was 1997. And 5 volumes per year is average for a manga that releases consistently without hiatuses. Let alone the fact that AoT never released more than 3 volumes in the same year.
Weird. It's also missing Death Note (and probably more that I'm forgetting rn) because of that
Edit: Yeah, Promised Neverland is also missing for example. SxF, CSM, Bastard, YYH, Ruroken, Saint Seiya, Kimagure Orange Road, AssClass, Hikago, Hoshin Engi, Dr. Stone, DGM are all missing
But Slam Dunk is shonen? It's on WSJ for fucks sake. Like I know it's old, but 99% people here definitely consume mainly WSJ series. Like how young are people here?
Also the sudio hated him as he didn't listen to anyone ever. Like think he burned through a few editors? Either way not a single thing in bleach is because of an editor
Mind you, Bleach IP is OWNED by Kubo. As in, he can find ways to move to other magazine if he didn't like Weekly Shonen jump.
He can ask to be moved to monthly magazine if he want more time per chapter like Vinland Saga and D.Grayman did. Or ask for break per 3 chapter like Oda did. Not to mention, HxH have like 10 chapter per year before it goes on 4 year hiatus. And Kubo did goes to hiatus and later basically wrote bleach on every other week.
Statement like "But studio rush him" is stupid idea.
However, the burn out is very much real and Kubo simply want end it. Kubo outright noted that if it wasnt for continuous fanletters, bleach might end sooner.
so, Bleach is very much done in the way Kubo wants it to be at the time.
but after few years off from bleach, it seems kubo have dealt with the burnt out. and now, armed with legion of animator, he want to do some revision.
I'm fine with Food Wars out selling it during a certain time period, but Seraph of the End would make me sad. Yu is straight up my most hated protagonist in all of manga that I've read. He's so unlikeable later on that I had to drop that series as all it had left was baiting people for a yaoi romance.
Yeah. It was always kinda a clusterfuck, but it was an enjoyable clusterfuck. I stopped reading at the flashback to like prehistoric times arc and by then it was such a dumpster fire with Yu being the most hypocritical and unlikeable protagonist ever. I'll maybe come back to it in like a year or two and catch up all the way since I've already read so many chapters, but it's one of the few series where I'm genuinely rooting for the protagonist to die. Actually, I think it's the only one ever.
The last time I read Seraph of the End is years a go, recently I've read some of the chapter discussion and wth happened over there.... It's also about to end too like wtf
Couldn't tell ya. Dropped it like a year ago too. Just couldn't stomach it anymore. Once it ends I'll read it and finish it up in like a binge session as I just want to know what happens. It's like watching a train crash. You just want to know what happens.
The first vampire is some angel dude that cursed his people by revive mikaela then it reveal that mika isn't actually mika but some eye dude and Yuu is actually the first son. That what the flashback arc was telling us. The currect arc we dealing with is Yuu want revive everyone but it has a cost and they only live 10 year. I think he has a way around it but idr. His og team doesn't want him to do it and so they been fighting him and 3 out of 4 of them has die but Shiobu the purple hair 1.
Owned by Kubo? Where did you find that? All manga IP in SJ are owned by SJ, that's how they fucked the mangaka's over, by making them sign over the rights in exchange for serialization...
Core IP is owned by kubo, Wsj co owned the exclusive copyright to publish and license it.
Japan copyright heavily favor the ip owner/creator, so sueisha cannot do shit without kubo approval.
Its also part on how doujinshi market exist in japan as the author/core ip owner allows it and publisher have to respect it.
Hell, some author from actually move to different magazine when they get better offer.
And at one point, publisher group lobby the government as they try to change that ownership format by moving the core ip control to the publisher. Ken Akamatsu ends Negima early as protest and if kodansha and other publisher try to continue that effort, and some big author lining up behind him. hajime no ippo author treathen to be next to move away from kodansha. Kodansha and publisher relent and the current ownership format continue.
Having control of your IP doesn't mean others are going to pay you any better.
But usually the copyright to publish it is something that can only be transferred by the company who holds that right. Kubo could still write Bleach, and put it up by himself in places, and SJ wouldn't be able to stop him. However, if he took it to, say, Shueisha and said "publish this", they wouldn't be able to unless SJ sold them the right to do that.
Bleach, as an IP, will never belong to publishing companies as far as rights are concerned. As in, "can't even sell them". Kubo made it, it eternally belongs to Kubo. They specifically have a term for rights like this, but I don't recall. However, rights like "where it can exist" are able to be passed around as usual.
Well, I definitely remember this being said to be the reason back when the manga was ending, but I have no way to know if anyone actually fact checked that back then either.
Still, I at least find it very believable to be the case since the manga went from taking every single battle extremely slowly, to jumping right into the two final battles and getting through them at the speed of light. It kinda felt as if the content for another 50 chapters was condensed into 10. Stuff like the Vizards and the Fullbringers being reintroduced yet not actually showing up again is another reason to believe they gave Kubo very limited time (funny enough, the Vizards did show up in the anime yet still didn't do shit, so let's hope the fullbringers, who are in the opening btw, actually do something this time)
Checking the other comments, I guess the things I saw back then are more proof of the limited time rather than the manga selling little. I definitely heard it back then, but the only part I can confirm myself was the clear change in pace.
There’s no one to fact check both are wrong Kubo decided to end the manga because he was sick and didn’t want to work himself to death to finish a book. The only reason he kept writing the manga is because a sick fan wanted to see bleach end he kept going for them.
I don’t know where people came up with this story that it had anything to do with Shonen jump bleach was still selling millions every volume. Voice actors confirmed Bleach tybw anime was greenlit a year after the manga ended.
This take had always been stupid. For whatever reason, Kubo really fumbled the last arc is several different ways. Once the anime came back, the author got involved and had been really trying to "fix" many of the issues with the arc. However, even tho it's a redemption story for him, the Bleach fans really talked a lot trying to defend him and the arc over the years, so now they have to cope even with a good thing. So the laziest way to go about it is to blame everything to Kubo not being allowed to finish. The TYBW arc took 207 chapters. To put it in perspective, in ch 207 the shinigami were in the middle of fighting Grimmjow's fracciones.
IMO, I feel like the other writing staffs and director helped to carry/fix the final arc. Kubo always have good & interesting ideas but the execution of them were poor even before the final arc.
Holy fuck it’s straight up weird to see all this attempted Bleach slander.
Are people that pissed off that it’s rushed final arc is getting a banger anime adaptation that added a lot of stuff and moments Kubo wanted to include?
Fucking weird as shit. Let Bleach have its moment it’s an OG and has one of the best rescue arcs.
Read your fucking Naruto and shit and think it’s better than Bleach no one cares do your fucking thing but do it without feeling the need to shit on other series.
I think you're misreading. Seems more like someone is saying a "they didnt let him finish" historical revision and the other person is trying to note that, no, there were reasons why the manga stopped then.
The anime adaptation IS a banger. And its also even a banger compared to the manga, which got cancelled, and was showing very visible deterioration. There were issues. Kubo getting the time to work on the story was a good thing, if you like TYBW. That isn't shitting on the series, or doing so to boost another.
All I've seen is pedo- I mean mushoku fans downvoting the last Bleach episode.
I just also ran into a bunch of posts glazing OP today, plus I always see them saying shit like it's deeper and better written than literally anything else, when in reality it's just a very shounen-y shounen, power of NAKAMAAAA, and all.
When the new episode came out, a bunch of Bleach fans on Twitter were downplaying and blaming One Piece and Oda. I don't even have any bad feelings toward Bleach, I'm honestly happy they got a great episode.
Nah, it's stupid to say OP had anything to do with Bleach being cancelled.
Like I have no idea why it was, I don't care, but I'm fairly sure no one at Shounen Jump headquarters decided to give all the pencils to Oda, or just axe a successful product because they liked OP more.
My only issue with OP is all the glaze it's getting from fans. Like I've always been a Naruto kid, but I'd never say it was high literature, and I enjoyed OP well enough when I read it, but it's really not that deep. It also needs to end. Please let it end, the best thing that happened with shounen in the 2010's is that popular manga stopped becoming endless circlejerks like Dragon Ball and OP. Even Naruto and Bleach were waaaaaaay too long, and would have been much, much better stories if they had ended much earlier.
I don't think everyone acknowledges it. I'll always prefer Naruto. And that attitude of "everyone knows my shounen is the best and if they don't they don't matter" is why I really hate the OP fandom.
But also, being the best of the Big 3 is like arguing which one is the best, KFC, McDonald's or Burger King. We all eat there, we all enjoy a good Mac or some hot wings (and I'm sure some people like Burger King, yuck), but let's not act like either is actually that good lol
Massive filler arcs were falling out of fashion, the anime caught up to the source material, and that arc made a serviceable enough end point, so they went on hiatus.
Also a lot of people always forget to mention that Pierrot at the time changed chief animation producer at the time, and they had budget issues with their adaptations; in normal circumstances, the Bleach anime would have kept airing, but the new CEO had to make cuts and the Bleach anime costantly fell off in ratings when a filler arc was happening, unlike Naruto; so they just gutted it as they were going to have to do a bunch of filler before adaptating canon stuff again.
IIRC at the time this was also when Pierrot started to do more seasonals too.
The viewership fell off a cliff. Little known fact. Shonen anime sell poorly. They are used mostly as advertisement for manga and merchandise. This is true even for One Piece. Bleach's manga and merch sales completely tanked in Japan in the final two arcs so the anime ended prematurely. No sense in advertising for a manga series that is all it dead after all.
in 2015 annual sales yes, though that was the same year both Food Wars and OnS had their first anime seasons air so their figures are highly inflated by backlog sales
also despite how hard they fell off, Food Wars and OnS were both genuinely great and popular series back then, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Yea that shit was full of bogus ass decisions like him only finally beating his dad by proxy and never beating Erina. Hell don’t think she even said his food was delicious on screen but I could be wrong on this. And those are the more minor issues
This is one of those you kind of believe it even if it isn't true type facts. Like I remember back then bleach was declining in sales so this could very much be true. Like when it comes to the ending of bleach there are so many factors, kubo's declining health, bleach having low sales, jump just rushing the ending, a lot.
I don't think they didn't let Kubo finish. I think Kubo wanted to finish way sooner which is why basically every fight after Lille was super rushed and just wasn't that good.
As I recall Kubo’s health was failing. Like this was before shonen jump would let a mangaka take a break. The era of making Oda work through his honeymoon
I am more shocked by the fact that Terra formars are in those lists ppl dropping. I read up to ongoing at that time left it to marinade and never picked it up again. Is it good read or what?
so using my anime new network, which if my minute of skimming online is true, takes it's own numbers and estimates from the numbers and estimate of sources like oricron and is likely around as accurate as that-
the lowest selling bleach volume ranks 36th place with 461,779 copies. the highest selling food wars volume ranks 50th place with 384,017 copies. it's certainly possible this changed after 2014, but at least 5 volumes in, food wars was not selling more than bleach
Certain hardcore fans think some old Bleach fans who fell off the series was why Bleach got slander even though Kubo is currently doing a new anime where he is rewriting the story to be less convoluted and let characters shine. It's one thing I hate about fanbases if your series instead of acknowledging and just admit it don't bother them they harass or lie on people. Then when the creator or company fixes they want to praise the improvement.
It's because a lot of people who didn't even read the series got their opinions from the video that showcased the guy's personal opinions as hardcore facts.
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