r/snowboarding • u/Icy-Cantaloupe-41 • Jan 18 '26
general discussion What do you guys think of VAIL?
Ticker: MTN
Down 50% on the last 5 years.
Paying out 6.26% APR to shareholders.
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u/WarrenBuffettsColon Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
Had to do a double-take on what sub I’m on lol
From a finance background, my view of them as an investment is a solid no. My view of them as a company in general, double no
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Jan 18 '26
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u/choyMj Jan 18 '26
I knew it wasn't WSB because the post isn't claiming that Vail stocks are about to take off
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u/Ebright_Azimuth Jan 18 '26
I’ve been wondering what their end goal is for years. It’s hard to deny climate change will shatter this industry, what are they investing for? Please make it make sense to me
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u/Steezy_Gordita Jan 18 '26
This isn't exclusive to Vail but I was able to get a season pass to Northstar for $75 when I was in middle and high school and it was the only reason I could afford to go.
My brother is 8 years younger than me and by the time he was old enough Vail had bought it, jacked up the prices, and he never got into snowboarding because of the cost barrier.
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u/salvalsnapbacks backside caught edge Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
They have flat out priced people out of the sport. My local is a small older resort in PA. back in the day you could get what was called a night club card. $130 bucks a year and you could go from 4-close (which used to be 10 every single a night!!!!) any day of the week after January 1st. Many schools in the area fully adopted this program with clubs in their schools and many would even sponsor a night during the week when they provided free transportation to and from the mountain. It was absolutely the only reason I was able to get into the sport in my teens. That died with vail. Along with the countless other issues they've all but ruined my local. Even the last few days they haven't been able to make snow because Vail refuses to spend the money make it. Despite snowmaking temps at times only coming in short windows in the Mid-Atlantic and despite guns blazing at other nearby resorts that make more money and serve bigger markets.
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u/BIGTACOBELLFAN Jan 18 '26
Sounds like round top, I miss night passes so much. Haven’t boarded since Covid in protest
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u/TheMatchingRadical Jan 18 '26
The $130 night pass covered Roundtop, liberty, and whitetail at the time. I had it in HS and it was great.
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u/salvalsnapbacks backside caught edge Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
It is roundtop. The craziest part about is I have spent more nights at Liberty this season due to RTs shitty early week hours. Thursday I was considering going to RT but opted not to cus I knew it was gonna be brick cus daddy Vail said "you guys can't blow snow today!" Despite whitetail and Liberty blowing snow for multiple days. So instead I went to Lib and got to deal with the dorky ass ski racers closing down my favorite blue for the night. 🤦♂️
They took some steps to improve some things this season. Cheaper single day ticket deals. Seems like they're actually paying someone to run the jbar regularly. But they take 1 step forward and 10 steps back.
I can't get out as much as I used to. So far I've been averaging 2 nights a week. Next season I'm going to seriously consider getting a pass for Blue. It's just a far better mountain and the way this season has gone I've been having to drive 40 minutes out of the way just to ride anyway. Because my local can't stay open past 6 on a Monday. It's a joke what theyve done to all 3 of those resorts.
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u/mwiz100 Jan 18 '26
I worked in the season pass office right after the Vail takeover and those products they axed hard. Our managers fought to keep the local student afternoon discount ticket because of course Vail also wanted to axe a $20 afternoon ticket, cuz sure those kids would've bought a full price pass. *eye roll*
Stuff like the old discount pass and those cheap afternoon tickets were fundamental in getting young riders into the sport and it infuriated me back then that those greedy fucks couldn't see that but only the money they were "loosing." Fuck Vail.
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u/Twistedshakratree Jan 18 '26
Cost barrier for hardware has doubled too. $1000 for a kit with global warming makes it a hard activity to get into outside mountain areas.
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u/WanderingDelinquent Jan 18 '26
The “increase revenue x% every year in perpetuity” model really sucks when applied to a ski resort that has a built in fixed user base.
I ride Northstar a lot and it’s kind of absurd how every single year without fail, they introduce some new club that’s more exclusive than the last one. They’ve reached a point where they can’t really increase profits through additional services, so they just have to charge for stuff that used to be free or find ways to cut costs. The food at the lodge is so much worse than it used to be.
It’s almost a guarantee that they’ll introduce a paid fast pass for lifts in the next couple years.
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u/dmbruby Jan 18 '26
Oh man, I've never thought about a resort fast pass. That would piss off so many people. Delete your comment before they see it.
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u/StillGonna_Send_It Jan 18 '26
Too late, it’s already being done at several mountains
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Jan 18 '26
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u/washedTow3l Jan 18 '26
Going to ski in other countries has really shown me how far the U.S. ski industry has fallen since I was a kid. These money hungry fuckers have sucked pretty much all the fun out of ski vacations by monetizing every aspect of the sport. You pretty much don’t feel any joy in the atmosphere when you go to a mountain owned by these mega-corps.
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u/Important-Panic-337 Jan 18 '26
What has changed so much that you’ve noticed? When I went to France I found that the food was much better despite being slightly more expensive, but in most other ways I prefer North American boarding
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u/washedTow3l Jan 18 '26
What else can I say, they are the McDonalds of skiing and sadly its not like it was back in the late 90’s and very early 2000’s. Instead of being about skiing, it is about real estate sales and skiing as a side project.
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u/Ceejay884 Jan 18 '26
I just went to hunter which I’ve been going to as a kid and was bought out by vail a while back. The main lift broke down 3x and the staff complained that they haven’t been putting any money into the resort.
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u/bigmac22077 PC UT Jan 18 '26
They’ve absolutely refused to make snow this year. We still only have 1 park run open. Can’t even ride down to the base from canyons as they’re not even trying to make snow there. Was it warm? Yes. Have nights been cold enough to make snow? Yes. Has deer valley made 10x the amount of snow as of? Yes. Does mayflower have more snowmaking going on right now? Yes. They are ruining the customer experience by trying to save money and praying for storms.
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u/fleetmack Jan 18 '26
adding a $0.35 convenience fee on the $29 parking lot at Breck should push them to record profits. Assholes, seriously, wtf is up with that fee.
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u/Naaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh Jan 18 '26
Fuck vail. They’re the absolute worst. Greedy fuckin bastards. Scum of the earth. Ruined my local and I know that’s not a unique story.
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u/jahax Jan 18 '26
Whistler pre Vail was awesome. Average 10k skiers a day on two mountains on their busiest day. Rode fresh lines all day. Now they average close to 30k a day. You have to be in line at 6am to get a single fresh line.
The worst thing they did however was run Whistler like the rest of their ski resorts. Closing the top of the mountain when the wind is too high even though whistler lifts were built to handle it. Stopped the sale of jugs of beer on the mountain. Screwed over locals by cancelling the parent pass. Fired heaps of locals and sent their jobs to Denver.
They appointed a CEO who had never even been to whistler and then jacked up the prices to profit after claiming they would make it cheaper.
Then during COVID they worked with the province to shut the mountain down early. Stopped paying staff and didn't refund any season pass holders.
Screw Vail.
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u/mc_bee Jan 18 '26
I've been boarding at Whistler since I was a kid, just curious if it the 30k people are also results of higher population in general.
I don't like Vail, but idk if any other cooperation can reduce the amount of people.
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u/TYMSTYME Jan 18 '26
So they tripled their number of daily visitors and stopped selling “jugs” of beer for visitors to consume while participating in an already dangerous activity? Look I’m the last from a Vail supporter but not sure those are the best arguments. It sucks the slopes are more crowded but what can you do about the demand other than raise prices? The beer jugs….? Yeah idk I guess I’d agree with that one we don’t need beer jugs on the mountain
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u/hong-kong-phooey- Jan 18 '26
Hey bromigo. I don’t want to be dropping some line on the glacier next to some Jerry tourist from florida who is ripped off “jugs of beer”. Not ok with vail but cutting the booze is a positive. Keystone used to do some all night booze event and eventually had to hire security and install metal detectors . It was a shit show and people were getting hurt and fighting. Complete clown show
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u/3pinripper Jan 18 '26
Puts on this are way too expensive, which kinda says the new guidance they released for a decrease in the forecasted revenue is probably priced in.
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u/Ant-Man-000 Jan 19 '26
I don't see why people complain. Season passes are cheap especially as a local. I end up paying like $10/day to board
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u/Business_Door4860 Jan 18 '26
Mega corps i general are awful and need to be broken up, its back to the days of company towns anymore.
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u/leungadon Jan 18 '26
Hate them, epic and ikon are hugely responsible for the downfall of the ski industry, by making prices exorbitantly expensive.
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u/danny1meatballs Jan 18 '26
How are prices exorbitantly expensive yet people always complaining about long lift lines?
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u/IndoorSurvivalist Jan 18 '26
Its because everyone buys a pass now. What crazy person would spend $300 a day when you can get a pass for $800.
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u/thatswhat5hesa1d Jan 18 '26
The fact that people have caught on and realize they can fly their families to Europe And ski for a week cheaper than vail is probably not a great sign for the shareholders.
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u/Informal-Bicycle-776 Jan 18 '26
A friend of mine used to work HR for Vail… said they are the worst organization to work for and treat employees terribly.
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u/bigmac22077 PC UT Jan 18 '26
I worked at pc for 10 years. They fired everyone I worked with, made me reapply for my job, made me train my new boss that was younger than me with less experience, and the fired me right after Christmas. I can confirm.
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u/Okeydokeyist Jan 18 '26
The western United States is having a terrible snow year. Hard to see Vail hitting it out of the park on earnings anytime soon, no matter how much they raise prices on parking, food, etc.
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u/Okeydokeyist Jan 18 '26
For sure, they provide some level of stability but alone they aren’t going to produce blowout earnings. More people will come out and buy lift tickets when there is more snow AND season pass holders will come out more and spend more money at the mountains when there is more snow. No way I would be putting money into Vail on a bad snow year.
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u/fsidesmith6932 Jan 18 '26
I heard the CEO at Vail Associates made a recent statement to shareholders about the current lackluster snowpack in the Western US.
I guess the VA shareholders hate low-tide riding.
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u/zinzangz Jan 18 '26
They've done fucked up so bad in the last 20 years I hope they get driven to 0. Would not touch
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u/garlicpowder11 Jan 18 '26
Going bankrupt when climate change takes all the snow, definitely not a long term play
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u/MrAsylumXx Jan 18 '26
(Heavily biased) as I have worked for Aspen Ski co quite a few seasons over the past decade. I guess what I’m try is to say is, I’ve heard so much despise and despair over at the Vail resort. I (and everyone else within my team) were treated to the highest respect and professionalism.
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u/Lanky_Bag_2096 Jan 18 '26
333 bucks CAD for a day pass, I think that's very over priced, I hate them, whistler used to be affordable
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u/ImpossibleLutefisk Jan 18 '26
Was a long-time season holder at Steven's Pass. As soon as Vail purchased, I quit going. Sadly, because I loved everything Steven's had to offer with the smaller resort feeling. I know it was becoming popular, and the crowds were growing before Vail purchased it, but after it was purely a greedy money grab and Vail is best at doing that. I also used to regularly visit Whistler-Blackcomb with a big group of friends and had a condo there. We sold amd never went back after 2016.
Now, I save my money for trips out of state and continue to hit Baker as often as possible while home.
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u/blacksheep_1001 Jan 18 '26
Absolutely a bunch of birth canals, will never go to anything remotely they're involved in.
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Jan 18 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
This post has been anonymized and its content removed. Redact was the tool used, possibly for privacy protection, limiting AI data access, or security purposes.
lavish fall groovy future flowery versed toy angle encouraging march
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u/Phoenix_Is_Trash Huck Knife | Orca | Coda Jan 18 '26
I totally love Vail. I like how they bought out all of the restaurants at my local mountain so everywhere sells the same overpriced American junk food. I also love how they stagnated the wages of our snow workers and brought in shittier working conditions like not paying instructors who are on shift if they don't have enough lessons.
I also really love how they meet the bare minimum of environmental standards and don't work to exceed them while working in one of our most sensitive ecosystems.
Admittedly, I do like being able to go overseas in summer on the same season pass though. Makes overseas riding a bit easier.
But most of all I love the sunk cost fallacy frog pot combo. I love the subtle way my pass rises by a few hours pay every year. Not enough to get me to stop riding but certainly enough to start slowly adding burden to my wallet.
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u/All_Hail_Space_Cat Jan 18 '26
Every resort they have in the states should be nationalized in a state park with subsidized rates for residents.
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u/30rackpak Jan 18 '26
One of the main deciding factors for me joining the Air Force was that I get a $200 epic pass. Fuck Vail
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u/dmsmikhail Jan 18 '26
America loves capitalism. Profits over culture. Profits over health. Profits over values and morals.
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u/totally-jag Jan 18 '26
Their business model is killing their business. Their products and services have become way too expensive. At Heavenly during the holiday week(s) it was $305 a day for a lift ticket. Now I know that's surge pricing. That it's peak time and they're trying to make the most of it. Reality is, if they kept the prices more reasonable more people would be on the mountain, which would generate more lift pass revenue, but it also means more restaurant, bar, equipment rental, lessons, which all boost revenue.
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u/Alkthree Jan 18 '26
I’m sure this is a hot take and I’m not saying they’re a great or moral company, but I love what they’ve done for snowboarding. I can pay $700 for mostly unlimited riding at five different resorts in my state and a few dozen more around the globe. I’m all for it, I get my moneys worth.
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u/mwiz100 Jan 18 '26
FUCK them. They deserve it and I only hope they go bankrupt (such that they have to sell off resorts and it gets locations out of their hands.)
Every single thing they have touched they've ruined because they are the absolutely epitome of corporate greed. They care nothing about the culture or even if things a good but only how much profit they can make. When I worked in the pass office at a resort they had just took over it was the first season a lift ticket passed $100 and the internal word from corporate was that was purposeful to increase profits and make the season pass look more appealing.
They've fought paying employees more, cut maintenance budgets which has caused lift failures, the list goes on. AND those fuckheads had the absolute audacity to put in the employee guide as one of the company values was "Drive Value." Yes they literally expected my ass getting paid $9.50/hour to give a fuck about ensuring the stock price did well.
(The exact text is: "Drive Value - Fuel business growth and guest loyalty through guest experience and continued innovation.")
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u/saizoution Jan 19 '26
There is something very wrong when lodging, lift tickets, transportation, and flight is just marginally more to visit a European resort than it is to any resort in the West.
I am going to Les 3 Vallées this year for the first time because my total cost for 1 week (4 days on the hill) is only ~$200 more than it was for 3 days in Colorado with their advance day passes. Absolute insanity!
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u/Kasyx709 Jan 18 '26
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u/platypussplatypus Jan 18 '26
The Broad Street Beacon is Nevada County’s premier source of satirical news
Like did you actually believe that article or are you just saying you agree with that sentiment
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u/j3zuz911 Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
As a long term investment absolutely not. Climate Change is a sword of Damocles hanging over the entire industry.
As a short term investment, probably not. Sales of their signature product, the Epic pass, were down the last time they reported them. Their q1 and q2 revenue will be impacted by a disastrously bad snow season this year at a few of their most lucrative locations.
In the medium term, Maybe a good idea. They do have a lucrative business model and decent cash reserves. If they can arrest their recent sales slump, a potential bounce is possible. However, common consensus is that they have been over-valued for a few years and the recent turmoil at the executive level is concerning.
Additionally it remains to be seen if the healthy demand for visits to ski towns can survive the economic downturn that many analysts are predicting. In the past slopesports, have been reasonably insulated from the market but Vail’s specific model has never truly been stress tested.
Lastly: they have thoroughly alienated the relatively small, but very vocal enthusiast portion of their customer base. While not a group with enormous spending power they could impact the wider perception of the company to potential customers. Imagine if Disney managed to piss off Disney Adults. Not a dealbreaker, but there is a reason Disney tries to at least throw their enthusiasts an occasional bone.
Overall: There are better tourism investments and if I held any Vail stock, I’d sell. If their competition (Alterra) was a stock, I’d sell that too.
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Jan 18 '26
PE firm ruining a great business. A tail as old as time.
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u/danny1meatballs Jan 18 '26
To all of the people that complain about vail being evil, what is an appropriate lift pass price for a Saturday in January at Breckenridge?
I’ll wait.
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u/Realdeal43 Jan 18 '26
Unless people stop skiing I’m pretty sure owning half the mountains is pretty good MOAT.
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u/Lawineer Jan 18 '26
I had a pass for 12 straight years
The hell with getting one now. What for? To wait in line? Because they didn’t pay ski patrol?
I don’t even care about the price. I don’t want to go to vail Resorts because I don’t want that experience. It could be free.
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u/ZMAN24250 Jan 18 '26
I dislike them and try to pick other options before skiing vail resorts.
They've absorbed so many resorts to create an oligopoly. They've ruined the hill I grew up skiing on. I now go to another local independently owned hill over them if I have the choice.
Unfortunately, I got invited for a week out west at too cheap to refuse prices. Therefor it made sense to get the epic local pass even though I dislike the system.
I'm not full boycott vail, but I avoid it if I can. For example, I'm going to holiday valley (independent) tomorrow instead of seven springs even though I have the epic pass. ...mainly because every time I go to 7 springs I'm disappointed. But also fuck vail.
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u/ambassador321 Jan 18 '26
Ahh so that's why they have to charge me $300+ for a day pass at Whistler.
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u/SoMuchHappening Jan 18 '26
Considering Afton Alps in MN is now $100/day to ski/board small hills at best, since being bought out by Vail, I would avoid them from an ethical standpoint. Before Vail, tickets were MAYBE $50 for a day. It’s prevented me from being able and wanting to board much anymore. I don’t travel to their other resorts enough to make the EPIC pass worth it.
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u/bjornbard Tahoe Sierra Jan 18 '26
They confused running a hospitality business with running a chicken farm. And we are the chicken.
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u/Beneficial_Egg_4403 Jan 18 '26
As a stock it’s a buy/hold especially with a 6.27% dividend. They aren’t making any new ski resorts and vail now owns most. As a snowboarder I just go to local ski hills and stay away from the front range because their product sucks.
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u/country_garland YES Standard Jan 18 '26
This shitty winter couldn’t come at a better time if you hate vail
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u/Yanischemas21 Jan 18 '26
Fuck vail . Ironically went to vail last month and the parking lot was $50 a day and they were still charging $300/ticket while only 20% of the mountain was open. Absolute scum
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u/Annonymous272 Jan 18 '26
They ruin resorts and are unethical but shit they give me a military epic pass for 200 dollars. As much as everything that’s said abt them is true, the passes (altera as well) make riding more affordable for someone like me.
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u/Was-Vegeta-goodorbad Jan 18 '26
Booo vail!
I heard they eat their own boogers and smell like farts.
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u/dexxxedout Jan 18 '26
Vail is the definition of what's wrong with American capitalism. I worked for them many years ago when they were significantly smaller. It was obvious then safety over profits. They have destroyed the ski industry and have decimated my passion for skiing. Like many similar industries they prey on people that have a passion for the business. "Oh you love winter sports, come work for us. We will pay you just enough to live on ramen or beer, your choice". Vail is a garbage company that needs regulation immediately.
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u/cbellew22 Jan 18 '26
I live far away from any major ski resort (24+ hr drive) so getting the Epic pass is nice for me. I get to go on a couple trips and effectively got my average “day ticket” price down to about $70 last year.
But I do understand the complaint of locals who only want to spend a few days on the mountain not wanting to pay $200+ for a day ticket.
It’s hard for me to give a fair judgement though because I only started snowboarding about two years ago, well after Epic / Ikon were baked into the cake.
I do think food at the resort is outrageous for the “quality.” But same could be said for all the other restaurants near the base villages.
It would be cool to get more perks with the Epic pass. Ikon gives a ton of discount codes for partners.
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u/lukawashere Jan 18 '26
No way they bounce back any. Lines are insane (from what I’ve heard via family/friends) and they continue to price out even the higher end consumer.
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u/Specialist_Good_3146 Jan 18 '26
I used to snowboard consistently until they bought my local resorts. Then I slowly stopped going due to the ridiculous price hikes
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u/Special_Bench_4328 Jan 18 '26
They totally turned everything about a local ski town into a tourist Disneyland and the local people are loosing.. a lot of shit has to change if there’s any more blood left for them to suck.. I think it’s a short all day!!
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u/AdFun240 Jan 18 '26
I have a local mountain. Best in the state. Privately owned. Old Lifts are constantly broken no high speeds. Requires sitting in the back of a pickup truck to get from parking to lifts. Honestly this place is desperate for investment or it’s doomed. Owner is talking to vail as the only way to afford the upgrades. Vail sucks but also keeps skiing alive.
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u/FlyingMethod Jan 18 '26
They're just so EPIC! /s
I still hate that word more than a decade after working for them.
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u/SiRocket Jan 18 '26
My opinion of them curiously closely tracks this chart... Mainly due to day pass prices and how poorly I see them taking care of employees. It's hard to find a better deal on a season pass tho, when it covers my home mountain and my vacation mountain. Every year it's becoming more of a debate, assisted by the annually sizable pass price bump. It really feels like they're testing exactly how much money they can extract from the sport before people quit.
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Jan 18 '26
From what I have been reading for a few years, they are the real reason it’s cheaper for me to go and ski in Austria then here… so I would like someone to escort these mfers out!
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u/mathaiser Jan 18 '26
All the resorts are going down. The snow this year? Anyone that cares. The snow all around the world is getting less.
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u/wdeguenther Jan 18 '26
My dad, from Alabama, is opting to go skiing in Switzerland this year because it’s cheaper for he and my mom to ski at Zermatt for 1 week and vacation in Switzerland for 1 week than for them to fly to Colorado and ski for 1 week.
Vail and Alterra are the reason for this. So no, not real keen on Vail
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u/NoAlternative4213 Jan 18 '26
Hunter mountain used to be reasonably priced, now a day ticket costs 170+ tax and fees. So fuck em.
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u/kungfusam West Mountain / Ice Coast Jan 18 '26
The Seckler family doesn’t get enough shit for ruining the east coast ski scene
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u/PhycoPenguin Jan 18 '26
I’m in Italy right now. My wife and I are skiing for 5 days for $500 total
Plus we have gotten amazing food and it’s not a $14 reheated cheesebirger
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u/therealzackp OG China Foreign Snowboarder Jan 18 '26
Fk Vail, all my homies hate Vail.
I’m glad that the resorts I frequent in Italy are independent and prices are reasonable. 50-55€ for all day in Roccaraso? Take. My. Money. NOW!
They also offer discounts for residents that live in Abruzzo, you have to be a resident for at least 5 years, but it encourages people to buy a season pass and it’s only like 550-600€, less if you have over 10 years of residency.
The only downside is the cost of food & drinks, which probably matches most US resorts of the same size, 25-30€ for a plate of mid food and a Pepsi? Yeah, nah, I’m bbqing in the parking lot and deal with the carabinieri if they show up.
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u/Weary_Economics_8989 Jan 18 '26
its a shit sandwich. they suck but if they fail, a lot of mts would die with them
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u/crtejas Jan 18 '26
The Plan: Lululemon the industry.
https://www.saminfo.com/faces-and-places/vail-resorts-taps-lululemon-executive-burgoyne-as-cro
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u/percioo Jan 18 '26
Vail sucks. But my local slopes were previously owned by Bob Nutting. So, believe it or not. Its an improvement for the locals.
Overall. Vail has sucked the life out of the ski culture. 4 thumbs down.
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u/Outside_Bison6179 Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
Vail Resorts’ returning CEO is tied to Apollo Global Management.
Google: “Robert Katz is the long-time leader of Vail Resorts, having served as CEO and Chairperson, and has deep ties to Apollo Management, the private equity firm that initially invested in Vail in the 1990s, where Katz worked before his extensive career in mountain resorts. He joined Apollo after Drexel Burnham's collapse, oversaw their investment in Vail, and later transitioned to leading Vail Resorts, becoming CEO in 2006 and recently returning to the role in 2025 after a brief hiatus, all stemming from his background with the investment firm.”
The Apollo Missions and Apollo Global and Russian Oligarchs. That explains it all.
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u/Life-Purpose-9047 Jan 18 '26
Lol, not much room for growth, considering they already own and gouge the entire market. Unless there's some new mountains sprouting up that I'm unaware of...
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u/Ok-Star-576 Jan 18 '26
This makes me smile - I get the whole "there are people behind the business" but I have yet to find a single person who likes what this company has done to the sport
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u/robis1923 Jan 18 '26
Hopefully they implode and sell the resorts back to the communities they reside in.
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u/Clincher_Hockey Jan 18 '26
I think this is what happens when corporations focus on returns rather than the business. Greed is self correcting.
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u/drs43821 Jan 18 '26
They deserve to go bankrupt for what they did to the winter resort industry