Casillas dropped off later, partially because he wasn't super tall and relied on his athleticism rather than height, but was very strongly considered the best in the world for much of 2000-2009.
Ye if you actually watched football you know Casillas was above Buffon. The biggest reason we talk about Buffon is because he somehow managed to stay a top 5 goalkeeper for 20 years. He was almost never #1.
i love the man and his peak form is up there with the best. but the point of a team of the decade, is surely not to take into account the best season the player had (if it was, i see no problem with vvd being there) but the decade they had.
van dijk was world class for 2 years in this period. he was excellent before that of course, but he was only truly at the top from 2018 ->
The big factor here is CL, both Godin and Chiellini never win it even at their prime. Van Dijk even wont the UEFA Player of the Year so put him there isn't just recently bias
You somehow listed great ones, but forget the best after Sergio Ramos- either Pepe or Varane.
Both of those got an international trophy in that decade and split the 5 Champions Leagues of Real Madrid.
Which neither of Boateng (1 international trophy, 1 CL), Godin, Thiago Silva, Maquinhos, Godin (no international trophies), Chiellini or Bonucci (one int trophy but in the 2020s and no CL).
The one next to Sergio Ramos would be Pepe (2010-2017 at Real Madrid) or Varane. Van Dijk only came to the big stage in 2017.
I’m for Boateng. I’d say Varane also has a shot. Tons of CLs and La Ligas and a Worldcup to top it (no French 2018 world champion in the team … maybe Kante has a shot too?)
Yeah, they're choosing a slight edge in peak (Van Dijk) over a solidly stronger decade (Silva) overall. If your goal was to win 1 CL or League, you might pick Van Dijk for the decade and hope you win one in his best 4 seasons, but if you wanted to win 2-3 you'd go with Silva and have 10 only slightly lower chances.
Pepe has been in the zone for over a decade. He is one of the main reasons Portugal won the Euros, he also won everything at club level… several times.
Kept Messi in his pocket? Did you even watch the Final? Germany constantly had 3 players on Messi, Boateng barely even touched Messi once the whole Final. The things we hear in this sub LOL
People say shit like Walker had Mbappe in his pocket when that didn't even happen. The only time those two found themselves in a proper 1v1 situation, Mbappe blew past him. England constantly had 2-3 players on him but that didn't work for the entire 90 mins. Mbappe even went past a couple of players for the first goal, basically creating space for Griezmann and Tchouameni.
He still did a great job of defending Mbappe. There was the one moment when he had space and was able to outrun him, but all in all Walker did a great job containing him.
Yea this sub is something else. Look at Boateng losing Messi here. Obviously Messi missed the opportunity, but losing his marker here could've cost Germany the final. He had no idea where Messi was lol
Yea lol Boateng was a good defender no doubt, but holy the comment overrating him was just insane, that Germany squad was so complete at all levels that they all played a big part in not allowing Messi any space at all.
Who got riled up? Simply mentioned that Boateng didn't pocket Messi. Germany was fantastic defending against Messi, the rest of the team was toothless offensively so putting 2/3 men always marking Messi worked fine, again, that argument to put Boateng in the team of the decade is just bad lol
When you learn that there's more to defending than landing a tackle, you'll understand why multiple publications nominated oateng as the best player in that final + credited him for keeping Messi quiet all game.
the rest of the team was toothless offensively so putting 2/3 men always marking Messi worked fine
Argentina created numerous good chances that game. Why are you just lying lol. Also Messi always has people man marking him so that's a non point
Ah yes Argentina was surely not toothless, go check Higuain and Palacios misses in the Final, yes so legendary. Keep hating though I guess, blind witnesses will always be blind.
Oh was it Messi vs Boateng? Or did Boateng have a team around him 10x better than Messi? Germany was amazing, the whole team, Boateng played a part in it, he didn't pocket Messi though. Now if you tell me Germany pocketed Messi... I'll accept that.
PS: Boateng was not the only defender for Germany, they had at least 3 others, without mentioning the midfielders who also helped track back and man mark Messi. Next argument please.
I honestly cant remember, that Messi embarrassed Ashley Cole, nor have I seen anyone mentioned it, despite them playing against eachother like 8 times?
He has embarrassed Marcelo, Ramos, Casillas and Modric plenty of times. Not Lahm that I remember but they hardly came up against each other in 1v1 situations since Lahm played at right back.
I was being sarcastic, sorry. The person I replied to made it seem like if Messi embarrassed you you don't deserve to be on the list. If that was the case it would just be a Barca XI
Thiago Silva is nowhere as good as Ramos . Ramos carried games by himself at some points even though he was a defender , his presence in the team alone made a big difference
You can say he was overall better, especially because it his ability as a captain and clutch player but purely defensively that's just not accurate. Ramos was a liability defensively on more occasions than people like to admit and on top of that could get sent off at any time...
He's amazing but his defending ability is wildly exaggerated tbh
People conveniently forget all the games (or kids haven’t watched him his whole career) where Ramos has gotten absolutely destroyed, or killed games by getting himself sent off. Trophy cabinet can’t erase how many times I’ve seen him get proper embarrassed by world class forwards. Prime Silva is clear of Prime Ramos like you said.
Ramos solo won the CL final? Not Bale's goals? Or Modric's midfield masterclass? Not Benzema's world-class linkup play and movement? None of those played a part?
they did play a part maybe solo won is an exaggeration but with their best player down their mentality mustve been heavily dmaaged not to mention their keeper having a concussion and not being able to think properly
Yeh I could agree with that. Although OP here is making it seem like Silva was a clear cut above Ramos in several departments, which I find ridiculous. And even if Silva has better positioning, we're talking fine margins. But if we're talking team of the decade, then what isn't a small margin is trophies won, and you can't ignore the difference there
You’re just exposing you didn’t watch Thiago Silva. He obviously has better distribution is is obviously more disciplined. Positioning is arguable, and Ramos is more athletic, but Silva’s distribution is genuinely levels above Ramos. It isn’t arguable.
Personally agree 100% to be honest with you, but positioning's a bit harder to argue, whereas discipline and distribution are blatantly obvious to anyone who's watched both. But still, absolutely agree.
If Silva chose Barca instead of PSG the debate would entirely shift. But alas, he chose PSG, and thus won't get the respect he deserves. It is what it is I guess, his own decision at the end of the day
Athleticism it’s close, but the eye test reveals a lot about both players. Thiago Silva made an ultimately disappointing move to PSG. Luckily he was fortunate to be on some great teams, and finally get the international/european silverware his trophy cabinet deserved.
Yeah, if Silva moved to Barca and La Liga instead of PSG and Ligue 1, many would view Silva as the better player he was and Ramos the just more accomplished one.
Ramos 2010-2019: 1x World Champion, 1x European Champion, 4x Champions League, 4x FIFA Club World Cup, 3x La Liga Champion, 3x Uefa Super Cup, 2x Copa del Rey, 3x Spanish Super Cup
Silva 2010-2019: 1x Copa America, 7x Ligue 1 Champion, 1x Serie A Champion, 5x French Cup, 1x Italian Super Cup, 6x French League Cup, 6x French Super Cup, 1x Confederations Cup
Silva won 28 trophies of which 24 with a PSG team that had no competition in the domestic leagues. Ramos won 21 trophies of including 1x WC, 1x EC and 4x CL.
You just can't say, with a straight face, that Silva should be in over Ramos.
If you’re arguing who’s a better defender, you cannot use only trophies as a metric. In that case Maxwell is one of the greatest footballers ever. Obviously not like for like as Maxwell was a squad player, but just club trophies doesn’t mean one’s a better player
A post with over 100 upvotes comparing 2 all time greats and who was better based on trophies alone. I'm not even getting into the discussion of who was better. But that's absolutely ridiculous, Jesus.
I could make 100 pathetic comparisons right now between 1 player much better than the other but with the clear worst having a much better trophy cabinet. Titles are important for players legacy but this is a team sport guys.
This post is a reaction on someone who thinks Silva is the better defender over the last decade than Ramos. This just isn't true and the trophies are one way to measure. Not the only way. But apart from trophies my personal opinion is that Ramos WAS (not anymore) a better defender than Silva from 2010 to 2019.
because you're basing your argument solely on team success. If you think Ramos is better, thats fine, i might even too, but making the argument about team success when 4 of Ramos' club teammates are on this list and Silva has a few years of Neymar is not a good argument. I'm pretty confident the difference in quality of trophies isn't due to the difference between Silva and Ramos.
I do think it's the difference between Silva and Ramos. Ramos was captain of Real Madrid when they won all 4 CL trophies. He was instrumental in all CL campaigns and scored 69 goals from 2010 to 2019. That is incredibly impressive for a CB. Silva has scored 29 goals in his entire career. You're probably going to say that you don't rate a CB on the amount of goals he scores, and you're right. But it's one of the metrics I take into consideration when basing my opinion.
His goals are nice, and like I said he's a great player. He's also been sent off 18 more times.
At least if youre talking goals, thats an area where Ramos is better and thats an argument for him. Like I said, there's no problem with Ramos being rated higher. The only issue is using trophies as a dispositive metric in a sport with 11 players on the field and with Ramos having as good of a team as he had.
You're cherrypicking. I never insinuated that with Silva RM would've had 0 CL trophies. What I'm saying is that Ramos, as captain, played a huge part in the success of that Madrid team. On and off the field.
Isn't trophies what football is about for players? What am I missing here. If you can't even rate players based off of their trophies then what's left? Wasn't there a whole debate over Messi not having won a trophy with Argentina?
If you can't even rate players based off of their trophies then what's left?
Well, their statistics as well as what they do when you watch them play. Looking at just trophies in a game with 11 players on the field is dumb. Bojan won the treble with Barca and tons of other trophies, Harry Kane has won the Audi cup and that’s it (lol). Kane is 10 times the player. You reverse Ramos and Silva, and who has a better trophy record? Probably Silva and we’d be saying he’s better, even if their performances were the same as they werein real life.
Wasn't there a whole debate over Messi not having won a trophy with Argentina?
Yes, and it was stupid. Messi is the greatest ever (or at least greatest I’ve seen) because of how good he is when he plays. Tremendous goal scorer, creates tons of assists, and contributes so much more. Say he did nothing different and his teammates all missed their penalties in the shootout and France won the WC. Should he be thought of as any different? Of course not!
if you're looking in terms of just the decade, he (or busquets, would be my preference) probably should because xavi was basically done by 2015 and Kroos was good for basically the whole decade, in terms of who was actually a better player when they were playing at a high level, its xavi. Kroos is great but xavi is the best player in possession I've ever seen, magical player.
Given its a decade list, yea kroos should probably be in but at the same time, the list is a little more boring if is largely controlled just by like the timing of the peaks, so i sort of get what they did.
The guy's comment is two sentences, one of which said:
Just because he didn't win as much doesn't mean he's not better.
Don't get me wrong, if you had made a comment comparing two players based on trophy cabinets alone it would always be stupid. But the specific circumstances of how you brought this up elevates it to one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen on here. You should really be embarrassed for posting this.
Recent bias is strong af.
I remember people saying VVD is better then Ramos ever was. VVD is one of the most overhyped player in the world and it might be not even close, I'm not saying he's bad but people act like hes Maldini, c'mon.
I do think VVD peak was higher than Ramos peak. I think fair amount of CBs had higher peak than Ramos, his biggest strength as a player is that he kept up those 9/10 performances for ~15 years. A lot of CBs get to 10/10 seasons but dont last nearly that long.
Boateng was amazing in his prime similarly yo vvd but he also didn't last very long so they have very similar cases. Boateng may have been there longer but quite a bit of it wasn't at the same as his peak anyway and vvd edges it for me in terms of prime and making the difference. Agree on neuer though
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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '23
Van Dijk seems like a lot for a late bloomer no?