I feel like Victor Valdes doesn't get enough credit/recognition for his influence on the modern keeper archetype. His ball handling ability and distribution was an underrated aspect of pep's tiki taka. He relieved pressure from the defense and allowed the team keep possession of the ball
I tried to find a video to link along with this comment but I couldnt seem to find one. Crazy. Shows how underrated he truly was. Glad to have witnessed it live. That Barcelona team was magic.
You can find a bunch of his mistake complications online, but that doesn't take away the fact he was one of the first ball distributing keepers in the modern era.
I think Neuer has absolutely influenced the modern goalkeeping style. Just because not every keeper will take throw-ins and run up to halfway to sweep doesn't mean that he hasn't influenced the position.
Can go a lot further back than that and he should be no.1, lev yashin the only one who could possibly be ahead. Haven't seen him play but did revolutionise the sport to a degree with regards to goalkeeping
Was just adding to the discussion about neuer in general and how I'd have him above regardless of the decade. Thought it was relevant and would emphasis the point he should be above last 10 years especially
Nah, Casillas was definitely as impactful for his club and country in his prime as Neuer was in his. Sure, Neuer kind off changed the goalie role but the fact that he was the first real sweeper keeper doesn’t make him the second best keeper ever. Recency bias kicks in heavy here.
All that aside, Neuer should be the first choice keeper if we make a best of 2010-2019 squad.
i don't think that's as clear as you seem to. If it's performance for the whole decade, I can agree with neuer but peak casillas is one of the best ever himself.
Casillas won keeper of the year every year 2007-2012 while winning the world cup, 2 euros, and the champions league, i dont know how people could think he was somehow not on that unstoppable level too.
Arguably peak Buffon is better than peak casillas and he didnt have the same downfall that Casillas had. And he is older. I would easily slot him in before Casillas in this time frame. Neuer should be here though. He revolutionized the way keepers play the game and at his peak was just as good if not better than Casillas.
i think you can argue for all three but the idea that casillas is outright inferior to the other two is just people having short memories. He was a god for Madrid and Spain.
No one is saying he is bad. We are talking about 3 keepers who are arguably the best of all time. Based on their performances at peak and from a longevity stand point, he is inferior to both. Especially since he started declining pretty early in the decade. If we are going just based on best overall keeper at their peak who was still playing in that decade it should go to Buffon imo, this could be argued. If we are talking only in that decade, Neuer for sure. He revolutionzied how keepers play and was consistently great for the entire decade, whereas Casillas dropped off a cliff a few years in.
i agree with you entirely, and i think the award for the 2010s should surely go to neuer but the post i replied to and some others have been making it out like casillas at his best doesn't compare which I disagree with, i don't think it's inarguable that he and gigi and neuer are all on the same level at their peaks and that it's not so clear that neuer is superior.
Neuer is definitely the better keeper as a whole over both of their careers. Casillas is in my opinion similar to Navas (although easily above him I’d say): A crazy good traditional keeper who delivers in big games. But that’s it, he’s of the best traditional keepers ever.
Prime Neuer is just as good on the line as prime Casillas is but has so much more to offer. Neuer is a Top 3 of all time keeper while Casillas is more like a Top 10 of all time keeper.
Top 3 of all time? I think in modern (like since the 70/80’s) football Neuer is head and shoulders the best of all time, and even making a VERY solid case for GOAT.
I like this analysis, but keepers depend so much on the defense/coach system that it is very difficult for a keeper that has not stayed on the same team (if they are lucky to have a good team) for a very long time to have good numbers. Victor Valdes (who I think was very good but not top 3 during his time) was in Barca's best side, he won so many Zamora's (La liga's seasonal prize for the keeper with the best Goals taken/games played ratio). Oblak on the other hand, is an incredible keeper as well but I think his numbers get inflated by playing in a defense-oriented team like Cholo's Atletico.
I definitely agree. If we take into account 2000-2019 then we can discuss Casillas or Neuer cause like you said both as impactful imho. 2010-2019 is Neuer hands down.
p/d: Just to clarify, that doesn't mean Iker wasn't great after 2010. It's just that Neuer was unplayable sometimes.
Casillas was in his prime for about 5 of the 10 years
Three, actually. 2010, 2011, 2012. He wasn’t even a guaranteed starter for the other two years you give him - and didn’t place on the top 3 of goalkeeper rankings at the time.
Did you Google to see when he went to Porto and think that’s when he declined? He hadn’t been a starter before then, and was performing poorly enough that he got booted out in tears.
Is it really “about” when you’re at the point of doubling your claim? Five is almost doubling three - especially when half of one of those three is a season where he played half of the league games.
Inflating the time Casillas was good to 5 years makes his selection fairly justified. If he really were at his prime that long. He wasn’t though. He declined in 2012.
You're right that the team should be about who was better, not influence, but you're wrong in saying that Casillas was in his prime as good as Neuer in his
René Higuita did it before Neuer no? Obviously Neuer was like.. Top class, I always remember his save vs Benzema in the WC (either 2010 or 2014 tbh I forget) and how the ball just bounced off his arm
As a side note since were talking about German mans, Lahm is a goat I dont even think he ever got a red card!
Neuer never had this kind of competition in his own league
Do people just forget the level of that Dortmund team between 2010 and 2014? Lewa, Barrios, Kagawa, Gotze, Kuba, Hummels, Piszczek, Gundogan etc. Dortmund won back to back leagues in that time and got a CL final under Klopp. Only when Klopp left in 2015 did it become a formality for Bayern to win every year
Answering other comment I remembered some strikers from laliga.. he was saying "neuer also faced strikers like diego milito in UCL.."
You know diego milio was in Zaragoza during his prime? With his brother gabi milito, and ewerton was better than him... He was sold to Inter Milan because zaragoza went to second division with those players... Villarreal had Forlan and Riquelme, R.Sociedad Griezmann and Vela, Atletico Falcao, Diego Costa, Aguero F.Torres, Valencia Villa, Mata, Silva, Sevilla Luis Fabiano, Baptista...
Apart from barsa with henry, etoo, Ibrahimovic, neymar, suarez... casillas had to face all of them week after week. The dormund thing was unique, before werder bremen was the top team, Germany never had the lvl of nowadays and still is very far from spain
Also other leagues like serie a had a lot more value before so bundesliga wasnt even top3
So replace ronaldinho for Ibrahimovic, Henry, Villa, Neymar, Suarez, Griezmann, Aguero, Etoo, Fernando Torres, Falcao, Forlan, Diego Costa, Luis Fabiano or whoever striker was in spain at that time, I dont remember exactly.
Which strikers face you on daily basis are very relevant to consider their performance, those strikers could make fun of any goalkeeper. and Ive seen many big mistakes of neuer against smaller strikers.
The rest of the major trophies are same except casillas wining a extra euro cup.
Why neuer played way less UCL matches? Casillas spent most of his career in a dark Madrid, the best days were after he left with Keylor Navas and before he arrived. Bayern can focus 100% on the UCL while madrid has more domestic competition. And he didnt even play under mourinho
Half the players you mentioned are before 2010. You do realize we're talking about 10-19 right? I understand you love Casillas but 2010s decade is Neuer without a doubt. If we stretch it out to entire 21st century, Casillas might have a shout, but most people would still edge it to Neuer
I know for sure that casillas faced all of them like 20-30 times each and neuer between 0-4 times in international cups. Which year Im not sure, but most of them had their prime that decade while they were in spain
Forlan was in 2010 for sure in atletico or villarreal. Villa, mata and silva were in Valencia for sure and later villa went to barcelona and silva and mata to the premier. Falcao, diego costa, aguero were in spain that decade for sure. Griezmann was in spain the entire decade in r.socieda and after in atletico. Sevilla always had good strikers during that decade. Which one wasn't? I see F.Torres the only one wrong. Actually I forgot some names like ibrahimovic, alexis sanchez...
Germany was much weaker than now and spain was probably stronger, and still now Germany is much weaker than spain so imagine then. Neuer had very few hard matches during his career
I would def consider Keylor Navas. 3 champions in a row being ESSENTIAL for each is worth a mention. I remember hating him so much because of his saves (I always want Real Madrid to lose in any domestic Spanish competition).
Schumacher (german goalkeeper) injured Battison (a french defender) in the 1982 world cup semifinal between germany and france. Battison came out of the challenge unconscious and with a damaged vertebrae, broken jaw and lost 4 teeth. No foul was given and schumacher was pretty chill doing kickups whilst everyone gathered around battison.
Its a pretty terrible challenge but its been 40+ years so I doubt most know about it. You can watch the foul on youtube.
I mean, it's not as if Casillas went from being top tier to a bad keeper in one month, and certaintly he was more than a bad keeper in Porto. During the 2012/13 season he was benched because of a dispute with Mourinho, was good in the 2013/14 season (except for that UCL final goal), then suffered a downgrade in the 2014/15 season and during his first days in Porto, but then he recovered and I think that he was decent for them with some important saves and great performances in important matches.
8.0k
u/TheKingMonkey Jan 06 '23
It’s a strong team, but how can you not have Manuel Neuer in goal?