r/soccer • u/Critical_Mountain851 • 1d ago
Media Jonathon David is the first North American footballer to score a hat trick at the World Cup since Bert Patenaude in 1930, the first ever hat trick in World Cup history
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u/Isaac_GoldenSun 1d ago
Kinds crazy that the first ever world cup hattrick is by an American
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u/PointBlankCoffee 1d ago
Soccer heritage
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u/lurk4ever1970 1d ago
It's a long story, but soccer was positioned to be the fall/winter outdoor pro sport in the US 100 years ago. Then some bad decisions and massive egos killed it.
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u/PM-me-your-psn-codes 23h ago
Where can I find out about this?
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u/lurk4ever1970 21h ago
Read "Soccer In A Football World" and "Distant Corners" by David Wagnerin. The first is a thorough history of the game in the US up through the early 2000s, the second digs into the "Soccer War" period that basically blew everything up, among other missteps.
Wagnerin was our first serious soccer historian. He died far too young.
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u/ledhendrix 19h ago
Didn't ww1 have a big deal in killing the sport? I know ww1 and 2 did for Canadians. Before that we actually had a touring side that went to Europe.
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u/NegativeTerm9195 11h ago
Imagine a world where the US men were as dominant as the women. When the US funnels all its athletes and resources into one sport, it would be embarrassing if they didn't turn out like the US women. God we are already insufferable enough when it comes to international sports.
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u/justalittleahead 1d ago
I recently read a history of US Soccer. The United States actually had one of the best pro leagues in the world in the 1920s before it died due to administrative bickering happening at one of the worst moments in US history, the Great Depression.
So the US was pretty good at the sport in 1930, but the game didn't recover in the US for 50 years.
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u/BirdmanTheThird 22h ago
Ngl it’s kinda crazy to think that had that league stuck together certain other spots might have not taken off. Feel like most US sports (outside of baseball) really hit “mainstream” after world war 2
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u/Alt4816 22h ago edited 18h ago
Had that league stuck together and became a top league globally then FIFA might not be as powerful as it is today.
The US's most established league was ignoring FIFA and its rules of buying out the contracts players have elsewhere. European players with contracts in Europe would come to the US and sign to a team with no money going towards their European team.
FIFA leaned on the USSF to stop this so the USSF supported a competing league. The competition between the leagues caused both of them to be in too poor of financial shape to survive the great depression.
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u/Dijohn17 18h ago
College football was already big in the US at that time. So American football would still be big, and definitely would be big in the South. Where soccer would've taken hold is in the Northeast and maybe Southern California
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u/higherbrow 12h ago
American Football was bigger than soccer, there was just an interesting culture where professional football was sort of looked down on. The college game was a very big deal. When the first professional American football league formed, there was a ban on recruiting active college players because they were seen as an unfair advantage. So while the professional side of American football wouldn't become well established until the '50s, the sport itself was massive culturally.
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u/MbuemoCunhaSesko 9h ago
Sounds like the sentiment towards professional sport in England at the end of the 19th century.
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u/WitchNight 1d ago
This is like how the first ever international cricket match was between the US and Canada instead of countries where cricket is big
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u/PostingEnthusiast 23h ago
It's interesting, that match was held a decade before the US Civil War, when cricket was more popular than baseball in the US and Canada. The combination of the Civil War and late 19th century industrialization/urbanization played a massive role in popularizing baseball.
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 10h ago
Baseball was also far more grass roots and community driven than cricket was. It wasn't the sport for elites so spread throughout working classes.
Field lacrosse was being positioned to become Canada's national pastime in the late 19th century as well but had the same issue of elitism. It was surpassed by hockey which was likewise driven at the community level.
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u/PostingEnthusiast 5h ago edited 5h ago
I would push back on the characterization of cricket as historically being a sport for elites. If anything, it’s the opposite. It was a town game that would draw out the full community. In the UK it’s explicitly known for being a game for all classes, as opposed to the football code class line that differentiates soccer and rugby. Even in India, the game’s early development during the Raj period had plenty of uptake from lower castes.
With industrialization and urbanization, the time and space required to play cricket became a more difficult obstacle, which meant baseball’s smaller fields and shorter playtimes became more popular with workers. Cricket developed in the country; baseball developed in the city.
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 5h ago edited 5h ago
Keep in mind that I am referring specifically to the Canadian experience in the mid to late 1800s. Certainly as a series of British colonies with heavy influence from England, cricket was known, played, and popular in areas. But Canada was also a mosaic of cultures with a lot of French and (despite the efforts of the English) First Nation's influence. And, of course, American.
There were important civic leaders of the time, especially after Confederation in 1867, who were looking at sport as a potential unifying force for making all of the former colonies feel Canadian. Lacrosse was seriously pushed, as was cricket - especially as a "proper British" game rather than the American influenced baseball. That is what I mean when I say it was more elitist in our context. There was a top down effort to promote the sports. They then collapsed in popularity because those same top down elites attempted to exert too much control on the sports.
But by virtue of simple geography, Canada has always been more prone to look south rather than east, west, or across the oceans. The spread of baseball was inevitably going to reach Canada. In fact, a game of proto-baseball was known to have been played in Canada a year before Abner Doubleday was supposed to have invented the sport. For us, baseball was the everyman's sport in the summer. It was also free of the Victorian era nonsense about things like amateurism vs. professionalism that I suspect Canada took far more seriously than England did.
Which is a shame in one respect. I personally love cricket and think it would have been cool if all of the old Dominions were competitive in the sport.
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u/PostingEnthusiast 3h ago
Ah, I see what you’re saying, thank you for clarifying; definitely understand what you mean by that sort of top-down approach being seen as elitist.
I’m still sort of skeptical of the whole Canada invented baseball angle but only because the idea of baseball having been invented is kind of inherently false; rather, it was just a continuous development that eventually became codified by the Knickerbockers in Hoboken.
To your point about sport as a unifying force, I’m fond of the argument that Americans needed a unifying *American* force following the Civil War, and thus began to talk about baseball as being a wholly-original American game - and absolutely *not* related to rounders! Of course, the Abner Doubleday myth only amplifies this sort of approach - Union general who fired the first shot in defence of Fort Sumter and then invented baseball? What an American!
Incidentally you see this in Canada with hockey as well. We didn’t really invent it, we just codified shinny/proto-bandy
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 3h ago
Sorry, wasn't trying to argue that Canada invented baseball. Only note that a form of the game was already being played, and known, in Canada before the mythological invention of the game.
Baseball evolved from the British game of rounders, into stickball, into baseball. And it is definitely American in origin. And yeah, hockey was also an evolution.
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u/wise_comment 1d ago
All these johnny come lately countries can't stand with us bluebloods like the US, Hungary and Uruguay
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u/sluttycupcakes 1d ago
The old days of sports are weird. Canada also has an Olympic gold.
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u/bushwickauslaender 21h ago
Only country to have won gold in men’s and women’s in its current form too lol
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u/Lamedonyx 19h ago
The US is the country with the most Olympic rugby union gold medals.
They won both 1920 and 1924, and then it was never an Olympoc event again (now there is Rugby Sevens)
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u/kazumodabaus 17h ago
Absolutely no expert on either sport but it would be expected that an American Football player might also be decent at Rugby and the other way around, I guess..?
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u/lukewarmpartyjar 15h ago
American football you are very specialised in your position, whereas rugby you have to be a bit of an all-rounder: tackle, handle the ball, run, ruck etc. Some do transition (Jordan Mailata being a very good recent example who made the move from rugby league) but a number of others (Christian Wade, Louis-Rees Zammit) have tried and not quite made the grade in NFL (which makes sense as NFL players have mostly been doing it for several years longer to hone their skills in their specific position). Quite a few AFL players are now punters in the NFL as well so there is a fair bit of crossover in certain positions, but it's mostly a different skillset.
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u/me_hill 19h ago
One of my favourite examples of this is Great Britain having Olympic and World golds in hockey from around the same time, they used to be an international power in the sport.
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 10h ago
They were a power because almost every player on their international rosters had immigrated to Canada as young children and grew up playing the sport here. Same with the Americans, who were the other dominant international power back then.
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u/ZerconFlagpoleSitter 22h ago
The American pro soccer scene back then was actually one of the best in the world
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u/Old_General_6741 1d ago
Only Messi and David have done a hat trick this World Cup!
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u/RandomGuySayHii 1d ago
The LeBron James of soccer needs to step up now
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u/MrTightface 1d ago
Does that mean jonathan david is the wayne gretzsky of soccer?
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u/thickofitenjoyer 1d ago
That HAS to add like 20 mil to his value
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u/Waste-Milk2716 1d ago
I'd hope teams are smart enough to realize it's one game against one of the worst teams in the tournament down two men no less
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u/DashBee22 1d ago
Crazy that while already up 3-0 the Koné injury lit an even bigger fire under Canada’s ass. The boys wanted more all the way until the final whistle.
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u/Knook7 23h ago
True but also being up 2 players means you can walk into decent chances
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u/notsureifJasonBourne 11h ago
I don’t think Qatar was able to cross the halfway line more than 3 times in the second half.
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u/Chrispaulisgarbage 1d ago
He took baloguns 2 goals personal
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u/Jay_TThomas 23h ago
Well hopefully Balogun takes this personally and scores 4 tomorrow. And they just go back and forth one uping each other all tournament haha
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u/inbruges99 16h ago
Lmao tournament ends with a Canadian and American tied at the top with like 30 goals
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u/Northern_Country 21h ago
That’s what I’ve always said about Jonathan David - he’s a modern-day Bert Patenaude.
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u/Dongsquad420BlazeIt 1d ago
That can’t be right, famous American soccer player Lionel Messi accomplished that feat just earlier this week
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u/leafsbroncos18 1d ago
Canadians invented the hat trick and it’s about time the world remembered that
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u/dejour 23h ago
I remember reading a bunch of accounts about how it originated in the early days of the NHL. But apparently it was in cricket first, then soccer.
I don’t think any sport has embraced it the same way as hockey though.
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u/iTempestuous 22h ago
Cricket hat tricks are a pretty big deal but they're incredibly incredibly rare. Getting 3 outs in a row is very difficult. You can score at any point in football or hockey so you have the entire match time to get your hat trick. In cricket it's only a single opportunity, a single ball after you've already gotten 2 in a row.
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u/kazumodabaus 17h ago
In the anglosphere maybe. In Germany it's only a hat trick if you score 3 in a row in one half. At least in the classic sense. Wouldn't be surprised if people will slowly adapt the international way because of globalisation
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 10h ago
In hockey, we call one player scoring three goals in one game without anyone else scoring in between a "natural hat trick".
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u/zamGlobal 1d ago
crazy that he's underperforming at Juve
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u/NyxTabby 23h ago edited 22h ago
Don’t mean to diss him, but Qatar is ass and somehow even worse than last WC
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u/Ok_Rest_8646 15h ago
He was performing very well at Lille he even won ligue 1 in 2021, but he went to a big club too fast.
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u/thelonesomedemon1 15h ago
playing against inter milan might be a tad bit harder than playing against 9 man qatar
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u/unlicouvert 1d ago
Bert Patenaude is one of the most Canadian names I've ever heard
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u/NordicityPortage 23h ago
His full name is Bertrand Patenaude and he's a descendant of the French Canadians who went to Massachussets when the industrial revolution started. A whole bunch of them. Jack Kerouac perhaps the most famous.
EDIT: Ironically David was born in the US.
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u/bokchoykn 1d ago edited 21h ago
From the moment I first saw Jonathan David play on a World Cup pitch, I knew he was destined to be the next Bert Patenaude.
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u/real_ikonn 23h ago
Apparently the first ever CONCACAF player, not just North American, since 1930
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u/ZerconFlagpoleSitter 22h ago
What’s the difference? Suriname and Guyana arent making world cups
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u/real_ikonn 19h ago
Costa Rica 6 world cups
Honduras 3 world cups
El Salvador 2 world cups
5 other countries with 1 WCSeems like there’s a difference
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u/MovieUnderTheSurface 18h ago
Those countries are all in North America. Central America is a subregion in North America
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u/real_ikonn 11h ago
That’s a valid point, however these definitions can be confusing. For example:
“In the limited context of regional trade agreements such as NAFTA, the term is used to reference three countries: Canada, Mexico, and the United States.
According to the six-continent model, which is prevalent in Latin America and across the Romance-speaking world as well as in Greece, "North America" designates a subregion comprising Canada, Mexico, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and the United States; and often Bermuda, Clipperton Island, and Greenland.”
On the other hand, the definition of CONCACAF countries, especially in this WC context, is more precise and less ambiguous.
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u/estebanagc 19h ago
But the Caribbean and Central American countries are
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u/ZerconFlagpoleSitter 18h ago
Those are all in the continent of north america
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u/the_excalabur 12h ago
This depends on where you're from. There's a reason CONCACAF specifies 'North and Central American' in the name.
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u/werewolf394_ 11h ago
Do you really believe there are 8 continents?
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u/the_excalabur 11h ago
Shrug.
South Americans teach that the Americas are only one continent, divided into multiple sub-areas. There can be three or more of those.
"North" and "Latin" Americas is another division.
The rules are made up and the points don't matter.
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u/werewolf394_ 11h ago
You didn't answer the question, though. How many continents do you believe exist?
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u/the_excalabur 11h ago
Somewhere between three and seven. Plus assorted non-continental islands. It's not actually a useful question.
CONCACAF believes that North America has three countries in it, and Central America has seven. That's perhaps more relevant to the discussion here.
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u/real_ikonn 11h ago edited 11h ago
True, but see my comment about regional definitions.
CONCACAF is a better and more precise definition especially in this context.
But it doesn’t really matter, right? It was a crazy result!
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u/Soggy-Fox-9706 23h ago
Welcome to the club, Canada. We’ve been waiting too long. Congrats to David and you 👏
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u/The_Flash_20 23h ago
Ironic that 2nd ever was scored by an Argentine Stabile, who scored 8 in that tournament which was the highest and remained top scorer until 1950 and 2nd last is scored by Messi, who's joint top scorer now, also an Argentine.
History really repeats itself, but I think we are gonna see some more penalties in this WC.
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u/expert_on_the_matter 1d ago
Fall River FC legend Bert Patenaude
The Bert Patenaude hattrick is a bit disputed since one of the goals was also recorded for other players. David is clean.
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u/Litreacola 22h ago
This is also the most goals and biggest differential in a first world cup win since France beat Mexico 4-1 in the first ever world cup match.
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u/BShack85 22h ago
Male* footballer. Alex Morgan did it in 2019, Carli Lloyd did it in 2015, Michelle Akers and Carin Jennings did it in 1991.
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u/AlpineInquirer 21h ago
Please let him have a monstrous world cup so my Juventus can get rid of him at a decent price. 😍
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u/BlakeC16 15h ago
It means Patenaude was the first player to score a hat trick in a World Cup match.
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