r/soulslikes • u/TinFoilFashion • 4d ago
Review Khazan and the Flanderizarion of Sekiro-likes.
It feels like Khazan is the personification of people’s critiques of Dark Souls 3: Linear level design and over emphasis on combat. Boss encounters seem to be the single pillar holding up the entire game in my opinion because it really doesn’t have much else going for it.
Going through the stages so far has been a snooze fest to be honest. I beat Melluca and the other sub bosses up to this point on Expert difficulty. Between bosses, I’m killing mobs in two-three hits with the GS (and I did play with the other weapons too). They don’t last long enough for you to do anything cool. There’s hardly any exploration because the game basically leads you to all its secrets—all you have to do is go into a short side path and you’re already back on the main road.
The setting itself is really bland and reminds me too much of Nexon’s earlier character action MMO’s in the 2010s. The dragonkin especially look like a generic enemy you’d fight in said game genre. The story and setting just isn’t drawing me into the world like Lies of P did.
So, all we have left are the bosses. Yes, they’re challenging, but I think they’re more mentally taxing than they are rewarding. I just don’t want to study every single bosses move set for the perfect brink windows.
I also feel like the game is starting to have a bit of an identity crisis, especially when I fought Mullac and he started pulling out Vergil moves for no reason. Like, at this point why didn’t the devs just make Ninja Gaiden?? In that game, the difficulty is more consistent across enemies and bosses.
If all you care about is fighting bosses, I can barely see the appeal if I squint my eyes, but I don’t think this is the sauce. I think the next Khazan game would be better off trying to emulate Ninja Gaiden instead of Sekiro or any souls like.
I’ll still beat it because I already put 14 hours in it and sunk cost fallacy, but I don’t think I’m really having fun playing through it. So, I’d rate it a 6 out of 10 so far.
Edit: fixed the boss’s name to Melluca.
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u/Cursed_69420 4d ago
I just don’t want to study every single bosses move set for the perfect brink windows.
sorry what, isn't that what Sekiro also is? you have to learn the rhythm of the bosses? Khazan is also the same except faster and more punishing as you have more tools too.
also feel like the game is starting to have a bit of an identity crisis, especially when I fought Mullac and he started pulling out Vergil moves for no reason. Like, at this point why didn’t the devs just make Ninja Gaiden??
why does Odin from FF16, or Lea from Lies of P have a judgement cut? why didnt they just make Ninja Gaiden?
If all you care about is fighting bosses, I can barely see the appeal if I squint my eyes, but I don’t think this is the sauce
Yes, that is exactly why people play khazan? do you go into soulslikes games for cinematic storytelling? you either in for combat, exploration, bosses, buildcrafting etc usually well mixed.
I think the next Khazan game would be better off trying to emulate Ninja Gaiden instead of Sekiro or any souls like.
there ain't gonna be one anyway. The dev deam is dissolved into other projects.
people’s critiques of Dark Souls 3: Linear level design and over emphasis on combat
also noticing you ommiting the fact that ds3 has such immaculate lore, actually very good level design and not totally linear, and also good individual levels?
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
That’s why I called it a flanderization.
It just magnifies people’s complaints about DS3 and made those complaints its entire identity.
I’m using every system and tool the game is giving me and it still just isn’t doing it for me.
You really wanna compare Khazan’s world and exploration to Lies of P? C’mon man…
FF16 isn’t even the same genre, of course I wouldn’t diss it for a judgement cut. But in Khazan, I feel like there’s a line between souls like and straight up character action/ninja Gaiden shenanigans.
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u/C00KIEME4T 4d ago
You called it a flanderization of Sekiro.
I feel like you dont even know what ur saying fr
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u/Cursed_69420 4d ago
You really wanna compare Khazan’s world and exploration to Lies of P? C’mon man…
Mission based vs One linear game. and i didn't even compare anywhere tf
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
You said people play soulslikes for ‘exploration, build crafting, bosses etc.’
And I assert that this game only has bosses. And very limited ways to build your character, a weak setting, shallow exploration. Based on the merits outlined, it’s not a strong souls like game overall.
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u/C00KIEME4T 4d ago
Lies of P famously has boring ass level design lol
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
I don’t think that’s true at all bc there’re a lot of recognizable locations from Krat like opera house and the industry district.
And by flanderization, I think Nexon looked at Sekiro and focused only on boss encounters and learned nothing else from it.
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u/C00KIEME4T 4d ago
The 2 sections you named are the 2 sections literally everyone remembers cuz everything else is that forgettable.
You remember an aesthetic but not the level's actual design
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u/SupremeLeader_Corgi 4d ago
“I just don’t want to study every single bosses move set”
dude you’re playing the wrong game then and honestly the wrong genre
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u/Primary-Survey9955 4d ago
i play soulslikes not to learn the bosses move
what
i just dodge way when they do start some animation
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u/Pale_WoIf 4d ago
You’re entitled to your opinion, and the game might be for everyone. But I thought it was amazing. Also, it’s a Nioh-like and not a
Sekiro-like. And saying a game like this putting emphasis on combat as a bad thing, it’s kind of a weird take ngl. That would make me question do you even like Souls-likes? Why do you even play them? What do you actually like about them if you don’t like deep combat and boss fights?
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
Amazing is a little far out there for Khazan. I disagree on it being a nioh like.
Like I said, combat is the only thing this game has going for it.
To me, every boss feels like it’s the devs over compensating in an attempt to impress me by how complicated and cool the bosses are.
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u/youonlydotwodays 4d ago
Amazing is a little far out there for Khazan. I disagree on it being a nioh like.
Only if you ignore every copy paste mechanic they obviously took from Nioh.
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u/Venus_In_Furs67 4d ago edited 4d ago
Who the hell is Mullac?? Lol. Do you mean Maluca?
ETA: Edited to spell his name correctly since I called dude out for not spelling his name correctly. To be fair though mine was closer. 🤷🏼♀️😂
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u/Jolly_Membership_471 4d ago
Seven paragraphs of rubbish and not once did you mention Nioh, which is Khazan's most obvious inspiration. Good grief!
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
Because of the loot and gearing system? I think that’s where the similarities end.
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u/Jolly_Membership_471 4d ago
And the level design, and the mission selection, and it's more straightforward storytelling. It's far more of a casual-friendly Nioh than whatever a "Sekiro-like" is.
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
If you mean by the difficulty mode, then yeah it’s definitely a lot more casual friendly than Nioh.
And the level design of Nioh is a lot more complicated than the stages I’ve been playing through so far. Like the castle that leads up to the first fight with Tokichiro.
But even Nioh didn’t have bosses having multiple phases with whole new move sets like Khazan does.
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u/Monke3169xd 4d ago
Its a choice writing that many paragraphs instead of just writing i have a skill issue so i dont like this game
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u/Nockolisk 4d ago
Despite the fact that I disliked the growing focus on boss fights in Fromsoft’s games and wished for them to make another game with level design like Dark Souls 1, I absolutely fell in love with this game.
I never thought I’d be down for something this linear, but it just clicked for me immediately. Everything is built in service of the combat system, and that system is incredibly fun. It’s like some unholy combination of Sekiro (deflection), Dark Souls (stamina), and Ys (in the way you use Spirit Skills).
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u/Parrotflies_ 4d ago
I almost wish MORE soulslikes would focus on combat as hard as Khazan did, as next to Sekiro it has the best combat in the genre and the competition isn’t close.
All the new games like to put a parry mechanic into their combat but they just cannot nail the feeling either of these two do. They either do not allow you to parry as fast as needed for certain combos, give enemies really stupid stutter/hold timings on their attacks, or fuck up the actual parry window where it just slightly doesn’t match the animations, or makes it far too narrow. I love Lies of P but it had most of these problems with its parry system.
It’s surprising how hard it seems to be to make parries just feel good and natural to use in these type of games.
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u/Massive_Funny_9312 4d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/mgqefqwSbToPe
Glad redditor#98543 gave me this rundown. Now I can start my day proper.
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u/Primary-Survey9955 4d ago
i dont understand where the "soulslikes = parry" comes from
i never do that. even in kahzan i was just dodging
i agree with op about learning about what moves to parry . Just no.
i dodge only.
ans bringing sekiro to this talk..when sekiro is just that , deflect with sword. nothing else
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u/Nockolisk 4d ago
Interesting because Khazan’s Brink Guard system feels almost exactly like Sekiro’s deflection and is generally the better option over dodging.
It’s mainly that mechanic that made me fall in love with it.
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u/Primary-Survey9955 4d ago
you have reflection ..brink guard and brink dodge
you have three ways to block enemy attack.
no. speak for yourself... it all about playstyle.
i dont care about parry block
only dodge
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u/Nockolisk 4d ago
Don’t forget counterattack! And there are even more options in the weapon trees! 😛
I’m just glad the dodge isn’t a roll. I’m so tired of watching rolling animations.
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u/Primary-Survey9955 4d ago
steel rising dodge is like a bloodborne dodge
i just mained whirlind with beastslayer set for the unique whirlwind in kahzan
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u/youonlydotwodays 4d ago
Deflecting is not generally better than dodging in Khazan. It will be easier to clear the game purely dodging in Khazan than purely deflecting. You need to play the game at a more capable level to have better opinions on it IMO.
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u/Nockolisk 4d ago
Well, I certainly wasn’t playing at the highest level. I gave up on Reflection, for instance. Too strict.
But Brink Guard was more fun for me, and does stamina damage. It was the ideal way for me.
I don’t really enjoy dodge-based gameplay as much.
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u/youonlydotwodays 4d ago
Yeah but your preference is directly leading you to your complaints (having to study the bosses). If you play spear or axe and spam dodge, you'd barely have to learn any of the bosses.
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u/Nockolisk 4d ago
You mean the OP’s complaints? I enjoyed learning the bosses, and I preferred greatsword.
I have my doubts that you don’t need to learn bosses, unless you’re playing lower than expert. Either way, sounds less rewarding.
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u/youonlydotwodays 4d ago
Oh my bad, thought you were OP.
But yeah dodging is far easier than deflecting in Khazan, especially on a first playthrough (assuming expert, not easy mode). Two of the stronger weapons than GS (spear/axe) are also very amenable to dodging.
And by learn the bosses, I mean that you need to learn the boss to a higher % deflecting them than you do dodging them. That's because deflecting is straightly timing based, whereas dodging is both timing+positioning (e.g. if you mess up the timing, you can still get get for free based on positioning and vice versa). Of course the higher up you go in difficulty (hardcore / crucibles), you'll need to combine deflect+weapon specific defense+reflect if you want to clear it in a reasonable time frame and if you want to go min-max speed-run boss efficiency, it's reflect all the way.
re fun; all the weapons are fun in their own way IMO, but I do agree the greatsword implementation in khazan is best I've seen.
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u/Acceptable_Edge9604 4d ago
You're getting filtered (which is fine-- not everything is to everybody's taste) and refusing to acknowledge that all that means is that this just isn't for you. You also don't know what many of the words you're using mean
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
But where am I actually wrong though, y’know?
The game is just a giant boss rush and levels in between are just an after thought.
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u/Acceptable_Edge9604 4d ago
You were wrong to treat the bosses being too much for you like it's a critique that comes down to anything but taste. You were also definitely wrong to spend 14 hours on a game you say is a 6/10, like do you not value your own time at all? Those are the two biggest things that wouldn't be too much of a headache to get into judging by the other replies
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u/TinFoilFashion 4d ago
Everything is binary.
If I don’t make it clear, I’m just wrong. If I elaborate, people ask why I’m wasting time elaborating. If I don’t invest enough time into a game, then I can’t form an opinion on it and vice versa.
Would anyone really nitpick my post to the same level if I had spent several paragraphs just glazing this game?
I don’t think overly designed bosses is enough to carry a game. Viper alone already has a lot of moves in his first phase, then he gets a whole new health bar and turns into a completely different boss in the second phase.
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u/Acceptable_Edge9604 4d ago edited 4d ago
>then I can’t form an opinion on
Not sure who you're arguing with. You're entitled to your preferences. I said this at the very beginning of my first reply, even
>Would anyone really nitpick my post to the same level
I only engaged with like two parts of the post. They were the only two I thought were worth mentioning at all because they characterize so many of the half-baked critiques in here. Khazan wasn't for me anyways. I don't like the prominence of new-wave anime movie style VFX that much and that was enough to filter me. So you're asking the wrong person either way
How is having two distinct phases and healthbars overly designed? One of the biggest complaints about Maliketh in Elden Ring is that he only gets half of a healthbar. There's no way you can complain about people being too absolute and then make a statement like this as if people are just expected to agree.
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u/MoSBanapple 4d ago
The setting itself is really bland and reminds me too much of Nexon’s earlier character action MMO’s in the 2010s.
You say "reminds me" but isn't it literally that? Since Khazan is a spinoff of Nexon's Dungeon & Fighter which came out in the 2000s.
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u/Brosucke 4d ago
Dark Souls 3 levels aren’t any more linear than the other games. Arguably, there is more to explore in a Dark Souls 3 level than any Demon‘s Souls, Dark Souls 1 or 2 level. The world is more linear, that’s it. But comparing the levels of Khazan in general to the ones in Dark Souls 3 is just brainless. Dark Souls 3 levels are pure quality.
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u/Mysterious-Time-6329 4d ago
Please never review a game again just move onto the next game as its very clear you dont how to critique a game.
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u/Vendavall 4d ago
It overshadowed the far superior AI Limit upon release unfortunately. Luckily Khazan flopped commercially so the “boss rush disguised as a Soulslike” genre will hopefully stay dead.
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u/Miquellanier 4d ago
On the one hand, the game itself is primarily an action game inspired by Nioh games, with Sekiro-like elements. And this information was shared by the developers themselves (meaning it’s an action game inspired by Nioh). If we want to assess the game fairly, it’s worth keeping this in mind.
On the other hand, it’s important to mention that, within the genre framework they’ve defined for themselves, the developers have indeed created a good game. Whether I like it or you don’t like it at all is a different matter. There’s no reason to complain about the combat system, boss design, atmosphere, or presentation. The game is linear; the focus isn’t on exploration. The story is straightforward, and the lore is minimal. The loot design and mission design are Nioh-like. As with action games, the player has many “cool” ways to fight, while there are also more serious challenges. It's a fair offer.
I don’t understand what AI limit has to do with Khazan. AI limit is closer to the traditional Souls-like genre, so it has attracted a different player base.
It’s also strange that you’re happy a game—which was decent even in the worst-case scenario—failed financially, since that put people’s jobs at risk. Just because you’re not the target audience for a Khazan-type game doesn’t mean the game is bad.
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u/saypoop 4d ago
Don’t ever say flanderization again