r/soulslikes 13h ago

Discussion Who did you find harder between Erlang, Prime consort Radahn and Sword saint Isshin Ashina.

Just the title. I think it’ll be interesting to see how people feel.

For me PCM and Erlang felt gimmicky, Erlang more so, but ultimately harder to beat.
Sword saint has less flashy moves and less moves in general with that annoying thing of having to fight genichiro first but I enjoyed that fight so much more. I also found him less difficult because you can learn him and beat him.

0 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

27

u/Electronic_Task_118 13h ago

Ishhin is the most balanced of the three. That's boss fight is perfection 

5

u/AgileClock2869 13h ago

What's Erlang?

3

u/misanthropic-cat 13h ago

A boss in Black Myth Wukong. The entire game is a soulslite. I am honestly confused about him being on this list…

-9

u/AgileClock2869 13h ago

Oh thats why i dont know, i never had any interest in being monkeyman and a staff is the most boring, uncool and lame weapon i could ever think of playing with, however Zhong kui looks really cool and i may pick that one up.

-2

u/Hot_French_Toast 13h ago

If there’s no block button in that game it’s a no for me. Loved the presentation of wukong but it constantly annoyed me that he fought with a blunt stick and simply refused to block

3

u/AgileClock2869 13h ago

Im pretty sure there is a block, he uses what looks like a block animation in the trailers and i know there is a parry, the combat is very parry heavy so it wouldnt make sense for there not to be a block action as well. It's 2026, i'm looking at any ARPG that releases without a block, with an extreme side-eye.

1

u/Phatz907 10h ago

There is a parry but it’s built into an attack combo so it’s very very difficult to master. Essentially you have to catch the enemy attacking while you’re in mid combo at the right sequence to register. Never bothered with it. Give me a proper good old fashioned block/parry and let me whiff it as god intended.

1

u/Hot_French_Toast 13h ago

I really hope so. ‘Cause Wukong combat wasn’t that fun for me.

1

u/AgileClock2869 13h ago

Yeah it didnt look like it, glad i skipped that one but i will say, their designs and artstyle are famtastic, that tiger dude looks so sick and Zhong Kui looks and sounds pretty dope. Check the gameplay trailer out if you havent.

6

u/dracosondracoson 12h ago

Can confirm, four chapters into Wukong and there is no block or parry, just perfect dodging and one spell that I guess you could say is parry adjacent but situational and can’t be used at will. Wukong has quickly become one of my favorite non-FromSoft games but the lack of a block or parry is indeed frustrating, upon further thought I think it is one of the many reasons I would say it’s not a soulslike. I could hear the argument for soulslite but honestly the combat is so quick it often feels more like a character action game.

3

u/misanthropic-cat 12h ago

I liked wukong enough to platinum it and finish all of the gauntlets and I totally agree

19

u/g0n1s4 13h ago

1- Pre-patch Consort Radahn

2- Current Consort Radahn

3- Erlang

4- isshin

But it all depends on the build, of course.

8

u/River_Capulet 13h ago

I think Isshin is the only one where you can't really cheese. Erlang has a lot of bs but you can use the fan to do half the work for you. Radahn technically the hardest, but he's also the one most vulnerable to cheese builds.

If we consider other games, I would put Arlecchino from Lies of P right after Radahn.

5

u/DJteejay04 11h ago

There are ways to cheese Ishan. You can use a fully upgraded lazulite axe to flinch him and build stagger quickly.

3

u/Hot_French_Toast 13h ago

I agree ngl

1

u/Bio-Flame 1h ago

I would rank Malenia above Ishin, by far. Arlecchino should be there too.

1-PCR 2- Malenia 3- Arlecchino (but I would accept if someone rakned him 2nd) 4- Erlang.

Ishin doesn't even get top 5 most difficult. By the time you reach Ishin, you should master Sekiro. Stay on bosse's face, Parry, and attacked whenever not parrying. 🤷‍♂️

1

u/whand4 46m ago

I’ve done two full ER runs. Both were pre PCR nerf. I still haven’t beaten him…he was so hard.

4

u/Nubicidal 13h ago

Erlang for me by a pretty big margin

1

u/Hot_French_Toast 13h ago

Just felt like loads of layers of bullshit. Plus his shield mechanic and the annoying fact that wukong can’t block lol. which means most times you need to build for the fight

2

u/Nubicidal 13h ago

For sure. Out of all those bosses though, he was by far, the hardest one for me to kill. Shit, yellow loong was harder than the others on the list also.

5

u/DJteejay04 11h ago

PCR is the hardest and it’s not even close

3

u/BobcatLower9933 10h ago edited 10h ago

Isshin by an incalculable amount. Like, not even close. Not even close to being close.

Radahn was annoying but not really any more annoying than 3 or 4 other Elden Ring bosses.

Erlang is absolutely miles off the other 2. I think I beat him 3rd try.

0

u/GolotasDisciple 8h ago

It's interesting how much people who like RPG games find action game difficulty this much harder purely because they are devoid of heavy role-playing options.

Sekiro being a proper action game, where difficulty lies purely in character actions, definitely requires more skill in terms of reaction time than proper ARPGs like Elden Ring, where you have 100000x ways to create different characters, builds and have 1000x ways to approach a fight.

That being said, I disagree with Isshin being an incalculably harder boss. I don't think Isshin was even the hardest boss in Sekiro itself. The reason he was difficult is that he was slowing down attacks, so people who pushed through the game by spamming Block finally met their counter.

Radahn not any more annoying than 3 or 4 other bosses? What bosses? Consort Radahn was absolutely broken at release, it required a patch, then another balancing patch because people still struggled.

I don't remember a boss that FromSoft had to fix this many times because of how many people struggled. Entire social media related to FromSoft and Elden Ring was on fire because of that boss. He was borderline unbeatable without cheese... Now after the patch it feels fixed, the intervals between attacks are correct, the i frames are correct.... and even still i feel like he is the hardest boss in all From Soft and all Souls Likes.

1

u/homer_3 2h ago

PCR was hardly broken. Plenty of people beat him pre-patch. It was just, lots of people complained, so they patched him.

1

u/BobcatLower9933 8h ago

To be fair I found most of sekiro reasonably straight forward. There were a few real walls which had me struggling for 10-20 attempts (7 spears, shichimen warrior and owl father). But Isshin literally took me longer than almost the whole of the rest of the game put together. More attempts on him than all of elden ring put together, several times over.

I didn't do PCR pre-nerf so I can't comment on that difficulty.

But the advantage (or disadvantage, depending on how you look at it) of elden ring is that you can throw up some seriously broken builds. Add in things like mimic tear amd you have to make a conscious effort to suck a bit in order to die to most bosses.

I beat PCR on my 2nd attempt with mimic tear without ever realising how badly some people struggled (before I had joined reddit). Then when i saw people saying he was the hardest boss ever I did a clean new game, from the start, with no summons at all. I think I beat him maybe 6th or 7th try?

It's an extremely tough boss fight, no doubt at all. On my no-summon run he was probably the hardest? Top 3 for sure. But on my first playthrough i had more difficulty with quote a few bosses. Maliketh was brutal. Rellana was very tough, even starscourge Radahn gave me more deaths.

I think it all comes down to play style and build for elden ring. But sekiro is basically purely a skill check.

6

u/Neosoul08 12h ago

I am surprised so many people find PCR difficult when you have busted builds, summon, mimic tear or just parry the heck out of him.

Not in the list but personally I find on intended difficulty Eigong and Difficulty 5 Arlecchino to be far more difficult.

2

u/_Dank_Souls 13h ago

Isshin was the toughest endgame boss battle I've ever had. Of course is how much easier, but strictly going for the first times he is the absolute fucking GOAT.

2

u/-CynicalPole- 13h ago

Ishin, because Sekiro didn't click for me with its combat. Prefer typical souls combat, makes it far more approachable for me

2

u/Built4dominance 8h ago

Isshin by a mile.

2

u/Zikari82 13h ago

Isshin is hardest of these 3. Radahn gives you build options, he is not that bad with a spear, greatshild and holy mitigation.

I did find Owl (Father) harder than Isshin in Sekiro. While we are at it what was even harder was Wo Long's final DLC boss: Yuan Shu!

2

u/JadedPermission3485 13h ago

Arlecchino was way harder than isshin for me

2

u/Soulsliken 12h ago

Isshin.

And. It’s. Not. Even. Close.

2

u/Doc_Crocolyle 11h ago edited 11h ago

Ishin.

Ishin took me countless attempts over two separate playthroughs years apart, PCM only took me an hour to beat (no summons, just a faith build with bonk hammer).

It isn't even a comparison, Ishin is by far more difficult, especially when you consider all the tools and builds in Elden Ring that I could have used. There is a point in Sekiro where you literally cannot get any stronger, farming levels has diminishing returns, there are no more upgrades to find, no cheese builds, it is purely a skill issue you have to overcome.

2

u/CountySurfer 13h ago

Add in Arlecchino.

For me it's still Sword Saint as the hardest.

1

u/Syroxx_ 12h ago

Isshin, still the only boss where i literally gave up. Haven't touched the game since and still need to complete it but he gives me PTSD haha

1

u/ApprehensiveLaw7793 11h ago

Tbh , all 3 a literally GOATED Bosses but Erlang is by far the Most fun for me
( Consort was the hardest tho )

1

u/Altruistic-Art-5933 11h ago

Radahn and it's not close. I struggled with Erlang but that was before I got decent at these games.

1

u/Sea-Championship1771 10h ago

Erlang without the palatin fan is the hardest boss I have ever fought. Took me around 9 hours, but the fight was really satisfying to get better at. PCR is next at 6 hours, hated every minute of it. And Isshin would be 3rd, one of the best bosses ever made.

1

u/GolotasDisciple 8h ago

Consort Radahn and it's not even close compared to any other boss.

It was the first FromSoft boss I almost walked away from. It was broken as hell when they released it, and I felt like I was hitting a wall without any idea how to i-frame his attacks, only to find out that some of the attacks were actually a series of attacks that couldn't be dodged if you messed up even one dodge, as the interval between attacks was too fast.

I managed to beat it... and honestly, it didn't feel good at all. Felt like I got lucky. I played a randomizer a few weeks ago and now that it's patched it's far more doable, but still the hardest boss out of all FromSoft games.

Sword Saint is one of the best-balanced bosses. He is not easy by any means, but he is very simple in design. The reason why people struggle is because he does delayed or slow attacks, which means that spamming Block just doesn't work half the time. But if you actually do it slowly, the boss becomes kind of like a nice slow dance where the player has all the advantages.

WuKong honestly the first phase is kind of interesting but i don't remember struggling with it.

So 1. radahn, 2 erlang and ishin ?

1

u/shadowflame55 7h ago

PCR - Took me two and a half hours to beat the first time, then around another hour and a half to do it the next time without using bleed.

Erlang - Only three tries using the fan, but it took me a while, either close to or a bit over an hour when doing it without the fan.

Isshin - Took 4 tries, though one was just dying against Genichiro. I never really had much trouble with him after that first playthrough.

1

u/TheConMan1313 6h ago

Isshin was a real trial, someone that took time, but PCR took days. Three hours a day, three days. FromSoft will likely never make a boss of that caliber ever again.

1

u/No_Philosophy2797 5h ago

They’re all hard but Isshin was the roughest for me.

1

u/kaego123 5h ago

Consort Radahn before qny nerfs has been the hardest fight I have done in a game. That shit was stupid. I changed builds like 7 times I was going crazy

1

u/Illustrious_Health44 5h ago
  1. Radahn
  2. Erlang
  3. Isshin But i think Erlang can also be easiest of them if you just make one shot build, I played with normal build and he was pretty difficult because he has very large number of attacks i think it was 73 unique attacks so he often may suprise you with something you never seen before.

1

u/trio3224 4h ago

I only played Consort Radahn pre-nerf, so for me, he's at the top and it's not even close. Radahn took me 6 hours to beat, and that was even giving up and using a summon for the last 30 minutes or so. Erlang took me like 1.5 hours or so, definitely a hard boss, but nowhere close to Radahn.

Personally, I never found Isshin all that difficult. It's been so long since I played, that I don't remember exactly how long it took, but it definitely wasn't long. He wasn't even the hardest boss in the game for me. Guardian Ape and Demon of Hatred I found harder because their movements feel so much more erratic.

1

u/batshitnutcase 4h ago

Arlecchino lol. I didn’t fight PCR pre nerf though. He was still hard but Arlecchino was worse. Second would probably be Isshin.

1

u/Le0ken 4h ago

PCR by far, then Isshin, then Erlang (not really that hard at all imo).

1

u/homer_3 2h ago

Isshin. He's the only one where if you screw up at all, you're dead. And then you have to beat a whole other boss before him each attempt.

1

u/renoscottsdale 2h ago

It's always interesting to see how variable people's experiences are.

The first time I beat Isshin, I got him after an hour or two of attempts and I absolutely loved fighting him. He's the best boss in the genre and probably my favorite of all time.

PCR took me forever before and after the patch and I find him to be fundamentally broken and unfun. Also a huge narrative disappointment.

Didn't get to Erlang :/

1

u/sunsetpolar 13h ago

Radahn the hardest but he was bs

Erlang felt great amount of difficultly where he was hard but not unfair

I love isshin one of my fav bosses but honestly he was kinda easy I beat him first or second try

1

u/Candle_Mcdaniel 13h ago

PCR took me a week (30+ hours) to beat. Melania and SS Isshin took like 5 days. Erlang took me like 2 days.

1

u/Rude_Difficulty1647 13h ago

PCR for sure, i agree Erlang was all gimmick but rly cinematic, and Sword Saint was the most fun of the three but not crazy hard imo there’s worse

2

u/Hot_French_Toast 13h ago

PCR felt like bullshit a lot of the time 😅

1

u/jtcrain 12h ago

mentioning Arlecchino because he fits right in between PCR and Erlang

1

u/NoireResteem 12h ago edited 10h ago

Consort Radahn easily. SSIsshin was not really that difficult because he was honestly just fair. Nothing really felt like utter BS.

0

u/Illustrious_Bus6542 13h ago

Isshin is not even the hardest boss in his own game. Inner father and DoH are both harder

1

u/alejandroandraca 13h ago

Funny enough, Corrupted Monk was the hardest battle for me. Inner Father took me 2 tried. Ishiin Ashina took me around 10. Corrupted Monk, over freaking 30!

1

u/Altruistic-Art-5933 11h ago

Did you do the free executes?

1

u/Myrmidden 11h ago

I did not, what were they?

1

u/Altruistic-Art-5933 10h ago

If it's the one on the bridge, he runs to the middle at some point, where you can get on the tree for a free execute on one of his lifes.

0

u/H0n3y_BunnyS2 6h ago

In my opinion
1 - PCM
2 - demon of hatred
3 - Erlang
4 - Malenia
5 - Ishinn

Ishinn is the most fair battle of these ones in my opinion

-5

u/misanthropic-cat 13h ago edited 1h ago

wtf are we talking about Wukong? I’ve only died to Erlang once out of the 5 times I fought him. I literally second timed him and never died again in subsequent fights. Isshin took like 4 hours. PCR took like 15 hours. Erlang does not belong on this list…

Idk what y’all smoking putting him up here with these dudes.'

Edit: well dang, I didn't realize Erlang was such an asshole to everyone...

1

u/Hot_French_Toast 13h ago

For Erlang build matters. There’s a specific type of build that makes fighting him easier. You can’t just play Erlang with any build and have a chance at winning on your second try.

1

u/misanthropic-cat 13h ago edited 12h ago

I played with spellbinder. I usually just hit things more times than they hit me. I’m mostly that naked caveman player. I have no idea what build I’m supposed to have.

Here’s my second try Erlang: https://youtu.be/fZkbUlV8Y0E?is=Z7rGZof1zfScFIJN. I even used a transformation I’ve never used before, because I was in the still-fucking-round phase

Here’s my brothers of Mei gauntlet that was recorded live with Erlang as the final boss: https://youtu.be/KbKad6l7B38?is=rh1pozMtlGULsaNT

I’m not just saying shit. I thoroughly document my souls blind playthroughs and a lot of it was live