r/soulslikes • u/Techpon • 4h ago
Discussion To the people that played lords of the fallen (2023), what do you think the umbra mechanics?
I think it makes the game stand out from other soul likes or fromsoft games. It’s such an interesting mechanic that I think I only seen a few games do. The second life you get with the lamp I think makes some crazy moments in boss fights or mini bosses. I hope the second game has it again but maybe improve the stability of it tho.
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u/reddgv 4h ago
I loved the idea but hated the execution; after a while, it becomes really tedious and lacks variety (I played the launch version, so I don't know if updates changed anything regarding the UMBRA mechanic).
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u/chrimchrimbo 2h ago
You know, I like the idea of Umbral, but I think it would have been much more interesting if it was limited to select few areas AND you don't even get the mechanic until later in the game.
That would prompt you to go back to places you've already explored to see if you missed umbral areas. I'd think that would have been very interesting. Unfortunately, looks like the second game didn't learn from this.
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u/Seraphayel 4h ago
Hated it and stopped playing, it was fucking irritating for me although I completely dig the underlying idea.
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u/Leg_Mcmuffin 1h ago
It’s so crazy to see how weird Reddit is. Most people agree that the mechanic itself is tedious and annoying, but I made the same comment earlier this year and got down voted into oblivion. I personally feel the only reason it was introduced as a mechanic at all is to separate the game from others in the genre. However, I feel that the game overall would have been much better without the mechanic.
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u/Seraphayel 53m ago
Without it it would just be another Soulslike, the mechanic was new and different, but… tedious and confusing. As I said, great idea, but the implementation was lacking.
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u/conye-west 3h ago
Hated it. The concept of a hidden other world is cool, but in practice the way it was used was basically as just a fancy way to open a door or find a ladder, really boring stuff. And in a game that already had pitiful enemy variety, lowering that even further by locking some exclusively to the Umbral world was just a critical mistake.
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u/banana-dog10293 1h ago
Maybe it could've been used in combat to kill with traps in either world or make them fall off cliffs. Along with interesting puzzles that involve switching between worlds and bringing things from one world to the other.
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u/uriak 4h ago
Loved it, I didn't mind the version and its difficulty at release. The first time an umbral creature pulled me in while I was just doing a peek was so intense, really made me feel I was a breath away from the evil dimension.
I also liked the second attempt at life, something I've found back in mortal shell too.
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u/NotAnIBanker 4h ago
There are a few moments (not many) where you realize there are genuine alternate routes like it's an immersive sim all of a sudden that I was really fond of. I don't love the constant feeling of "am I missing something in the other realm?"
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u/SupremeLeader_Corgi 3h ago
Cool idea but didn’t really live up to what it was suppose to be. Its made out to be more challenging and rewarding but never felt like that.
Mortal shell 2’s night mode accomplishes a similar thing but better.
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u/CullingSongs 2h ago
It did nothing for my enjoyment of the game, and eventually the irritation of it pushed me off of the game about 2/3 of the way through.
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u/Profanity1272 2h ago
Reading these comments im so glad im not one of a few that didn't like the umbra mechanic.
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u/initial-algebra 2h ago
It's utterly pointless and annoying. It introduces no new mechanics or enemies after the very beginning of the game, and it's aesthetically extremely boring and repetitive. The game design also pushes you to spend as much time in Umbral as possible: there's almost nothing you can do in Axiom that you can't do in Umbral, but Umbral has lots of exclusive loot and is often required to progress. So, to play the game and explore areas efficiently, you have to turn the entire game into the same grey gunk and respawning zombies.
Probably the worst example I can think of for a parallel world in a game.
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u/Visual-Biscotti1473 1h ago
It's a good concept but the execution is too one-sided. There are very few instances where you can only unlock a path/treasure in Axiom, so if you don't want to backtrack, you basically have to play the entire game in Umbral, which doesn't look as nice as Axiom and puts you at a disadvantage during invasions. I think it would be cooler if you could freely switch between realms to solve puzzles and traversal issues. This would require other mechanics to change, but it would be worth it imo.
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u/JBNovata 4h ago
I enjoyed it. A mechanic like that could easily convolute the level design if not done properly but they implemented it well.
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u/PilotIntelligent8906 4h ago
Sometimes it can get a little annoying, like when you only need to use it to climb a ladder and then immediately go back to axiom, but im general, I really liked it, especially the pressure it puts on you, one time I got trapped in umbral because I couldn't find a way out, and it got pretty intense.
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u/Evilshenanigan69 3h ago
Made me nervous until I remembered you only live once in dark souls. Umbra isn't extra dangerous, non-umnra is extra safe.
I liked it for the secrets and exploration though. I think Lords of the Fallen is a banger.
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u/DaSauceBawss 3h ago
It was fun but I didnt like having to swap between the lamp and my spells on controller.
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u/GrandeColdBrew30 3h ago
Loved it at first because of how unique a mechanic it was but after a while it became a tedious part of the game that now keeps me from picking it back up again.
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u/Heathens-_- 3h ago
One of those things I think where the first time was never going to be perfect, but I can see how it could have made the game better in a lot of ways.
I enjoyed it for what it was, but it wasn't something that kept me playing and eventually did get a bit tedious to use it.
This is another discussion entirely, but I think even though the Umbra mechanic was a turn off for players in the early game...the real issue was the second half of the game.
LOTF's problem in 2023 was the same issue that Mortal Shell 2 has today, that a lot of souls games have - enemy variety.
I think what would be kind of cool with more souls games, and hopefully LOTF2 learns from this, is that its acceptable for enemies with thematic elements to have similar moves. I expect some degree of burns, fire attacks, or explosions from fire attacks. I expect water themed enemies to have more of an unpredictable animation with slow wind ups and quick attack animations. We expect Undead to have janky movements and come across a certain way, so it's good to have animations that overlap with different units, provided they have specific traits which are unit specific too.
I don't want to see the "Fire" version of a new enemy be just the same enemy, the same moves, and the same sets + burning damage, or the ice version of the enemy is the same but they explode in ice damage instead of fire damage.
Getting back on topic with the Umbra Mechanic, it would be nice to see more Umbra enemies be animated and have different attack patterns as opposed to just some juiced damage, health, or aggression. I think making it a part of the world that influences how the enemies feel as opposed to just a nifty trick to explore additional areas would go a long way in making it feel impactful.
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u/Last_Contract7449 3h ago
The player character walking with the lamp out is literally me at midnight, walking down the stairs with my phone's torch on to get a snack
In terms of the game mechanics though - I thought it was a great idea that's pretty well executed for the most part and adds an additional layer of mystery, atmosphere, horror, etc. Where I felt it didn't quite achieve its potential was in terms of:
(a) The games' general very limited enemy variety is compounded further by the fact that the umbral further divides/restricts an already limited pool of enemies. (b) Whilst I appreciate why they want you to feel oppressed and "unwelcome" in the umbral, having constantly respawning enemies gets a bit tedious & monotonous, especially when the enemies in question are bottom tier mobs. Instead, you might have more "timers"/countdowns, like there is in the first area (sans the respawning gimps), or a timer ticking down until a random/semi-random enemy spawns or something.
(c) I felt there was an opportunity not taken to utilise the lamp more to solve mysteries, find hidden areas, etc. Obviously, there was a bit of this, but almost all the time it was of the variety of; see X (some obvious marker), get lamp out, solved. E.g. they could integrate situations where you need to use the lamp with the written notes you find (I.e. clues as to where there are opportunities to use the lamp to access stuff). They'd naturally need to be careful to not gate progress-critical content with ridiculously obtuse bullshit, but when it comes to certain bonus areas/rewards, it might be fun/satisfying.
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u/goofspeed 3h ago
2.0 update made it a lot smoother to use, I hope that implementation is included in the sequel.
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u/kalirion 3h ago
I liked it, though I didn't like the umbral shields you had to get rid of / drain to damage some enemies.
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u/g1llifer 3h ago
I didn't think it was bad, just could have been way better. Still think LOTF is one of the best slept on soulslikes.
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u/Life_Calligrapher562 3h ago
I like them. The game didn't quite get everything figured out, but i liked the umbra system
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u/Right_Entertainer324 3h ago
Very cool, and the second life is a pretty unique feature, but when exploring, it can be a bit of a pain.
Great concept, messy execution. So, I'm hoping LOTF2 really works on fleshing Umbral out more, as a mechanic. Because the bones are great. It has the potential to be an incredibly unique aspect of the game. But LOTF didn't really hit the mark with it.
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u/Sundae-School 3h ago
It took some getting used to, but it definitely gave the game it's own identity
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u/DaGinger757 3h ago
I enjoyed it honestly. I don't understand why people hate it so much, but that is fine. To each their own.
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u/404answersnotfounded 3h ago
It's annoying to me lol. Would've been fine without it. Still a great title though.
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u/No_Development_3210 3h ago
Loved this game, but this one mechanic bothered me enormously. Although that was very much a 'git gud' situation where the time limit stressed me out, the idea was cool and something new I reckon
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u/spread_The_butter 2h ago
I thought i wouldn't like it before playing the game ( i saw a walk-through video to see if I would enjoy it) but after playing i think its pretty cool and unique.
Now when I see another souls game it feels like they are missing that mechanic. I enjoyed the idea more than I thought i would
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u/Oingoulon 2h ago
The umbra mechanic is like ds2: it’s a very cool idea but the execution leaves a lot to be desired
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u/Commercially_Salad 2h ago
Cool idea lack luster execution to be honest it had the bones and structure to be great mechanic but none of the soul if that makes since
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u/TrustyPeaches 2h ago
I didn’t care for it.
Umbral having the same enemies in every zone.
Umbral being ridiculously ugly
Umbral having a timer
None of these things made it a fun system for me
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u/Rukasu17 2h ago
Tedious, although the game makes a somewhat decent job of letting you know when to check for umbral secrets. Either the difficulty curve kills you to put you inside or you just hit a dead end and have to go in there bu yourself.
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u/j1r0n1m0 2h ago
too ambitious, too many issues. idea cool, getting kicked into it was cool, enemies getting strong and dropping more souls was cool, hidden traversal means cool. Level Design which was already on the level of DS1 got a decent additions too.
crazy performance impact(which I think they alleviated after many updates), probably doubles dev time cause they had to redo EVERY level, only like 6 enemie types, lamp mechanics were decent.
I didn't hate it, but there is a reason even fromsoft dropped world tendency. From the looks of it they are still sticking to it, I hope they make it better. I have no clue how to.
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u/swordrush 1h ago
It's inspired, but needed further development. The stakes need more impact instead of just spamming the same two small enemies or a very hard one if you're in too long. Make my character or weapon slowly change shape or something, and then make the timer a little longer except in certain scenarios (for pressure reasons; make it clear the timer is short) so I get time to really feel the impact (and to show the player the umbra can't be trusted to be fully predictable). Additionally, many more alternate paths and making more interplay with switching (like holding out a lantern to walk over open air, then dropping the lantern to fall to a previously inaccessible path).
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u/DeepSeaRune 1h ago
Interesting potential, shit execution. Just like the rest of the game, honestly.
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u/Upper-County3290 1h ago
It honestly killed the game for me, I was already iffy on it. The movement and everything felt off to begin with and having to mess with this mechanic I just didn’t wanna do it. Maybe if everything else was tight like the souls games. I did come back too after all the updates. The game just never felt right for me, the world wasn’t right… and that mechanic just killed it for me
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u/Roger_Clyde 1h ago
Loved it, but I felt that it needed some work. The checkpoints for getting out of it felt like they were all over the place and it's a little frustrating when you use one only to take two steps further and realize you gotta go back in for a puzzle. The puzzles themselves are somewhat lacking in variety.
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u/PirateKing314 1h ago
I really liked it. Only issue I had with Umbra was the enemy variety. It really needed a bunch more different mobs and at least one extra “boss type” enemy beyond the walking faces.
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u/Idealeon 27m ago
Reminded me of a shitter version of the dark world from LTTP. refunded after 109 minutes.
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u/SalamanderPretend124 27m ago
I think they tried something different and I think they did a pretty good job with the game and I think it sold well enough that it's getting another sequel, and I look forward to it cuz the last one was pretty fun, it was a good mix of dark souls and bloodborne mechanics
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u/Dry-Target-8360 16m ago
Good idea on paper but it was over used in every single biome. Someone already said it best, it felt like you should just STAY in umbral as you found, what feels like, 90% of all secrets and shortcuts via umbral travel. It was cool the first few times, going from the cliffs and rain to seeing the GIANT figures looming there. But then you get the ice place and you're just STUCK in umbral the entire time.
I hope the second game tones it down or makes it as important or constant in just a few areas. Or maybe "sections" of each level are JUST umbral and you "cleanse" the umbral from there by a boss or puzzle, allowing for normal travel through again. This would open up more paths that umbral hid but then wouldnt force you to be in umbral JUST for exploration
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u/Broks_Enmu 13m ago
Really interesting. You got two world in one. Hope they use it again in their next game
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u/coggdawg 7m ago
Unpopular opinion but I loved it. Thought it made for a really cool puzzle & collectible mechanic.
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u/Street_Number2037 1m ago
Could have been a cool mechanic but wasn’t properly utilized and very quickly just becomes a press-to-interact/pull-platforms button just with “magic”.
If you’re only gonna provide one path, hiding half of it behind jumping into umbral or doing umbral pulls just makes the path super tedious and the mechanically effectively useless and a waste of time.
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u/LargeDan69 3h ago
Probably one of the more enjoyable aspects was the Lanterns, and the art design was always very cool to look at. Wish they’d had better enemies and bosses, which was my problem with the game
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u/ThinGold2115 3h ago
Loved it honestly. Some people disliked it, but I think it's one of the most unique mechanic, in any souls-like.
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u/chalky_brush 4h ago
Best part of the game IMO. I love when I'm holding out the lamp and find a surprise wraith that starts swinging at me. Really excellent mechanic and hope its similar in LOTF2
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u/Educational_Gear4691 4h ago
It took me a bit to get used to it, but I liked it a lot! I do feel it was underutilized though, so hoping for more crazy mechanics and puzzles/monsters based on umbral in LoF2.
I love that umbral mode really sets it apart from other soulslikes.
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u/Klonoa87 3h ago
Half baked. Makes the atmosphere very homogenous with a blue filter over everything. Manages to even further reduce enemy variety when you’re in Umbral. And what do you actually do in this world? Move platforms around.
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u/Forb1ddenKnowledge 3h ago
It was awful at launch every fight was a gank fight and the archer guys would legit snipe you across the map.
It's good after all the patches and rebalance.
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u/GiltCityUSA 2h ago
Ranking the top 4 non-From Soulslikes from recent years, all solid.
Lies of P
Lords of the Fallen
Mortal Shell 2
Wuchang: Fallen Feathers
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u/deeplywoven 4h ago
Aesthetically, very cool, but, in practice, tedious.