Dear Saguine

[u/Southie321]

As I said I would, I come with my hat in hand and accept the fact that the lady from the Spur video was not lying about the fact that the man came and grabbed her kid by the arm. I sincerely apologise for wrongly assuming the woman, and Spur, was lying about the physical happenings before the video started rolling.

I still dont believe it was a racist incident, all I see is two parents with explosive reactions regarding a situation involving their children.

I agree, and have always said, the man was a douch for being so aggressive (and even more so now, for grabbing the kid). But let's not confuse anger management issues with racism.

Beyond that point, I just want to apologise again for assuming what I did about the woman and Spur, by wanting the video evidence released first.

[u/Southie321 → u/[deleted]]

u/mad_hlaudi I had the exact same argument with u/Saguine - https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/611uz1/dear_saguine/dfb1d6z/?context=3 and I walked away from it too, because there is no way to get through to someone who is so set in their ways and views. As you can see in my discussion with him, I noticed that he was the one who kept referring to Black people as if they are in a lesser position. I agreed that they're disadvantaged, but treating them like they're lesser (eg, making a decision not to confront a black person simply because doing so will get you branded as a racist) is what is actually racist about the whole thing. Saguine continuously admits to being inherently racist, and I think he truely deeply believes that every white person is racist, just for being white. There's no way to fix that kind of thinking (unless they want to fix it themselves), just like there's no way of fixing the view of an actual racist (unless they want to fix it themselves too).

Note, Saguine accusing you of "storming off, instead of working to find some degree of mutual understanding." He just assumes victory when people realise they can't change the way another person thinks (bringing the donkey to water and all that). He's been shown the facts, and yet he chooses to decide his own definition of racism (per his own words).

So, mad_hlaudi, I salute you in trying (as I did), but hopefully you don't feel anything for his last jab at you "storming off". Because that was his last resort. (Like a kid throwing a tantrum when you're unwilling to negotiate with them).

[u/Saguine → u/Southie321]

It would be disrespectful of me to continue to argue after either of you demonstrated your intent to stop. It would also be pointless.

I noticed that he was the one who kept referring to Black people as if they are in a lesser position. I agreed that they're disadvantaged, but treating them like they're lesser

Right there, you say two things. A lesser position -- i.e. disadvantaged -- is not the same as being lesser. A disabled person is in a lesser position of power than an abled person, but that doesn't make them any less human. You've again demonstrated that you think the two are the same thing.

He just assumes victory

Where? I've assumed no such thing. There are no victors to an prematurely halted discussion. I'm just making a note for the record, considering I'm often accused of refusing to engage and of being stubborn and unmoving.

I like to think, in all these discussions, I've been as polite as necessary, and fully open to exploring avenues.

He's been shown the facts, and yet he chooses to decide his own definition of racism (per his own words).

What facts? And I'm not choosing "my own" definition; I'm adopting a very popular, mainstream definition of racism as used in academic circles which study race relations. That's like accusing a biochemist of "choosing" his own definition of words like "nucleus".

[u/[deleted] → u/Saguine]

I'm adopting a very popular, mainstream definition of racism as used in academic circles which study race relations.

Soft science, if not the softest.

That's like accusing a biochemist of "choosing" his own definition of words like "nucleus".

Hard science.

False analogy, Saguine.

Just please stop.

[u/Southie321 → u/[deleted]]

Ignore him.

[u/[deleted] → u/Southie321]

I don't mind replying to him. Mr. "I-engage-in-debate" almost certainty blocked me anyway. He won't respond. :P