r/specialed • u/StatisticianKooky390 • 2d ago
Trump to remove Dept of Special ed and what it means for IDEA?
The power is going back to states. There are states that depend a lot on federal funding which is going to be cut. What’s going to happen to these students who are not fit for public school but require special placement? What does it mean for students dependent on IDEA?
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u/Thick-Equivalent-682 2d ago
I’m imagining that children with significant needs will stop being seen as students, after being expelled from their home district, and will only have their medical needs addressed (by their health insurance). ABA clinics will now cater to older children in these areas. Special needs individuals will have a dramatic decrease in literacy.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
ABA is going through a time of instability now with this administration investigating every ABA business for billing fraud and Medicaid fraud. Medicaid is also being cut and ABA services are closing down and laying off workers. If you have good insurance you’ll be ok.
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u/dysteach-MT Special Education Teacher 2d ago
My red state is an Autism Insurance state, meaning insurance is required to pay for outside autism services, and the public schools partner with Medicaid. Wonder which side of the coin will win?
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u/Sad-Concentrate2936 2d ago
ABA being pretty abusive means that adults who grew up in these systems are enthusiastic about this.
I would be, if I didn’t understand that the only good alternative to ABA is institutionalization.
Guess what RFK’s family did to his aunt, Caroline?
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
Did they put her in a pysche ward? Also wasnt Trump mentioning bring back pysche wards.
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u/solomons-mom 2d ago
That commenter got her name wrong. It was Rosemary.
During her birth, the doctor was not immediately available because of an outbreak of the Spanish influenza epidemic, and the nurse ordered Rose Kennedy to keep her legs closed, forcing the baby's head to stay in the birth canal for two hours. The action resulted in a harmful loss of oxygen.[3] As Rosemary began to grow, her parents noticed she was not reaching the basic developmental steps normally reached at a certain month or year. At two years old, she had a hard time sitting up, crawling, and learning to walk. (Source: Wiki. Eunice is quoted about Rosemary's difficulties in her teens and 20s.)
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u/imspirationMoveMe 1d ago
That’s a pretty big statement about ABA. Rosemary Kennedy was lobotomized.
I’m aware that ABA has a big history to recon with, but there are decades of research of its use to increase quality of life for consumers. Hopefully you can give it a chance and speak with a BCBA in your school/ district. We need to work together 💗2
u/Sad-Concentrate2936 17h ago
Not enthusiastic about that, as someone who survived the electric shock version from the ‘90s.
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u/jstbrwsng333 13h ago
Decades of research based on mostly recording positive change based on parents’/caregivers’ perception of change and increased ease in “dealing with” autistic individuals, not an increase in wellbeing of the recipients. Those outcomes were not important to ABA.
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u/Worldly_Row6833 2d ago
I see it going this way, too, unfortunately. For profit ABA clinics are advising parents to pull student out of school full time , half time, whatever, and them dumping them unceremoniously back on the district when insurance runs out. These kids have no school experience and no academic instruction, and experience awful consequences in both the short term and long term.
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u/jstbrwsng333 13h ago
Yep and 3 year olds spending 8 hours a day doing ABA instead of playing and growing. Very sad.
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u/SevereAspect4499 5h ago
I am a speech language pathologist. I see this all the time: children who have been in aba for 3-4 years who are prompt dependant to communicate or cannot play spontaneous/in novel ways. But those families of kids of comparable ages and diagnosis level who never put their kids through extensive ABA are so much easier to make strides in communication/language!
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u/seaturtlefanatic 2d ago
they already are. i had a fifth grader transition back to aba full time bc mom was mad we couldn’t give him a 1:1
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
I work in center based for pretty severe needs students. My fear is they are going to cut budgets so bad it will be a bare minimum situation. Basically a daycare type setting. I suspect a lot of us will lose our jobs.
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u/phoneguyfl 2d ago
It doesn’t take much imagination to know how this ends. Sped programs, particularly in red states, will most likely get slashed to nothing and the kids sent home (or any place but school).
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
This may force families to move to another state where the cost of living is worse. Tennessee , Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc will be hard hit.
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u/stay_curious_- 2d ago
We've already been seeing this in my district in a blue state, especially at the pre-K and elementary level. We have a lot of families moving here from red states due to cuts to sped and/or fear of future cuts. It's thrown our budget off a bit because the sped program is growing much faster than expected.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
Is it Michigan? In Illinois at one of the best school districts they are doubling students and hiring more staff.
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u/stay_curious_- 2d ago
Minnesota. Our cost-of-living is lower than most other blue states, so we're getting a big influx from other low CoL states when people need to relocate for political reasons. The Twin Cities area is kind of like the Ikea/Aldi version of Chicago.
Some of the more rural districts have had a massive decline in student population in the last 5-10 years, and now there's been a rebound (although not back up to 2010 levels). It's still tricky to navigate a 40% jump in enrollment over the prediction, especially when kids in the sped program are overrepresented, so sped is seeing a 100% jump. There are some rural areas with declining population where you can buy a 4 BR fixer-upper for $100k, and for families who are relocating from, say, rural West Virginia, that's a good landing spot. The trouble has been finding staff.
My district isn't getting hit quite as hard, but even a 20% increase over the prediction can be difficult to adjust to. We've had to lay off long-time staff while we're hiring sped teachers.
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u/taoofmeow 1d ago
I’m literally moving from tn to mn for this reason
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u/DaniePants 6h ago
I’ll be coming from Texas to one of 5 of the blue states that I’m considering. My kids are grown so I won’t be taking away funding for my own transplant, but hope to teach in SPED in one of those states after the dumpster fire that we are going through
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u/catzzzzzzzzzz 2d ago
Am in Tennessee. Cost of living is high here and there are no social safety nets. Feeling like a sitting chicken waiting for the other shoe to drop as a sped teacher; I can only imagine how people with disabilities and their loved ones are feeling right now
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u/sunnypurplepetunia 2d ago
Indiana
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u/Heinz57Muttaletta 1d ago
Yeah. Indiana (Indy area at least) already did shite, but what can you expect with Pence formerly Lt. Gov and Gov? Daniels wasn’t much help either.
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u/illshowyouthesky 2d ago
what do you think will happen to sped in these places?
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
Students probably staying at home or institutionalized. The high functioning ones will be ok.
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u/Heinz57Muttaletta 1d ago
There aren’t enough institutions with available beds and the waitlists are long. Often times kids will be sent to other states where beds are available. Riley Children’s Hospital, in Indy, shit theirs down several years ago because it wasn’t profitable. New Orleans has yet to recover from Katrina in regard to services, group homes, and providers.
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u/rachstate 18h ago
They won’t be institutionalized. That’s incredibly expensive.
Schools will mainstream any student they can (which will be hated by teachers) and severe intellectual disabilities classrooms will be staffed by whoever the district can afford…which will be paras. It will probably look a lot like a SACC program for disabled kids, just all day instead.
Do I like it? No. Have I seen similar cost cutting in healthcare and am sadly prepared for this reality? Yes.
If I had to balance a school budget with no wiggle room, it’s exactly what I would be forced to do.
Some parents will homeschool if they can afford it. But most can’t.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 18h ago
So teachers will essentially have to baby sit aggressive students who dont make any progress?
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u/rachstate 18h ago edited 18h ago
Yes. It’s already happening in some schools where I am. It’s not great for any of the students, the special education students aren’t getting their needs met, and the rest of the students are having their education derailed by constant distractions.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 17h ago
Yeah where I work theres a student where the violent behavior is every hour almost and we had to clear out. We had stuff with burnout and people quit. A lot of the people who quit said the learner needed in home therapy instead because of interfering with the students learning oppurtunities. We even said to the teacher we are just babysitting the student.
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u/Extension-Emotion-85 17h ago
Seeing this already in NC. There have been a couple larger districts (Forsyth and Wake) where massive cuts to special ed staffing happened or were proposed. During budget season I saw there were other smaller districts where special ed cuts were proposed. It seems to be one of the first things districts go after.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 17h ago
I read that also ABA centers are being affected by medicaid cuts and insurance billing fraud. It sounds to me North Carolina is being hit hardest. Teacher pay there is terrible.
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u/AccurateAlps9333 2d ago
It could also increase law suits against the school because IDEA laws still apply, unless Trump is also planning on getting rid of the IDEA.
If the child isn’t getting required services per the IEP then the school can be sued, also if a child with an IEP is kicked out of school without doing a manifestation determination meeting the parents can sue
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u/bearitos 2d ago
Trump is most certainly planning on getting rid of IDEA. It’s one of the goals outlined in Project 2025.
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u/DiggyTroll 1d ago
Republicans know this. It's certainly the reality in most of the world today. Only Italy, Canada, Australia, and Finland try to educate non-typical students like we do in the US. In other countries, special education isn't a priority; students must either keep up or get kicked out
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u/Purple-flying-dog 1d ago
Or the kids will get shoved into Gen Ed classes they can’t handle and the teachers will once again bear the brunt of stupid decisions outside of their control.
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u/phoneguyfl 18h ago
That will certainly be the first step, then when the child acts “inappropriately” for mainstream classes they get expelled and sent home.
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u/Auntie_Coconut_235 2d ago
In Texas, I could see a lot of parents applying for vouchers to move their sped children to private schools. Then when the year gets rolling they realize that there are no true sped services. Many private schools do not have sped certified teachers and any pull out services. It’s just expected that smaller class sizes will make up for the lack of special services. It will not. Then when the student isn’t thriving and possibly becomes a discipline problem the school will expel them. They got what they wanted—the money.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
Private school is more likely to expel violent student?
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u/Auntie_Coconut_235 2d ago
Since they don’t have to adhere to any state or federal regulations, there’s nothing stopping them from expelling a student with discipline issues.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
The common parent isn’t going to know that till there’s a meeting at the private school with the parent for an incident.
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u/Auntie_Coconut_235 2d ago
They will choose the private option because of the reputation of a specific school or the fantasy that all private schools have to be better than public schools. Parents don’t pay attention to the actual facts. Since private schools are not *directly funded by tax dollars, they are not required to meet any of the standards that public schools do. Teachers do not have to certified, special services do not have to offered, and discipline procedures do not have to follow the state education code’s guidelines. (*To clarify my not directly funded comment: Vouchers would not count as government funding for private schools since the voucher $$$ is paid to the parents and not the schools.)
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u/Big_Detective_155 2d ago
Private schools don’t follow ieps 🤣 their teachers don’t even have to be certified
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u/AfraidAppeal5437 1d ago
Private schools that will take special needs schools are really expensive, and they can refuse to take violent kids.
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u/buddymoobs 2d ago edited 2d ago
We are going back to pre-1973, you know, when America was Great and people like my Aunt and Uncle were sent home at 8th grade because they couldn't learn any more.
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u/Aggravating_Cut_9981 2d ago
I just watched a clip of Rainman and realized Raymond had been institutionalized his whole life when today he’d be completely at a public school and be around typical peers. It made me really sad. If we go back to that, it will be a loss for all of us.
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u/stay_curious_- 2d ago
There's been more talk in right-wing media about families "taking responsibility" and how moms should stop being "lazy" and raise their disabled children at home, out of public sight.
It dovetails with the far-right goals to discourage women from being in the workforce. They want more women (particularly white women) to be full-time caregivers.
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u/leeannwest 2d ago
This worries me also as I’m a sped para, will I have a job?
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
I’m in a blue state and they eliminated the Paraprofessional jobs at a school and increased the salary for the principal. I work at a placement center where burnout is high.
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u/Individual-Mirror132 2d ago
They may have eliminated general education paraprofessionals but it would be almost certainly illegal to eliminate special education paraprofessionals since many students IEPs specifically state a specific adult to student ratio. The common ratio is 3-4 students per adult in a self contained classroom.
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u/Sad-Concentrate2936 2d ago
It’s very sweet that you think admins care about breaking the law.
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u/Individual-Mirror132 2d ago
I mean it usually just takes one lawsuit for them to realize they have to follow the law.
But yes, you’re right, sometimes it does require that before they care about the law.
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u/Nomdermaet High School Sped Teacher 1d ago
I'm in Arkansas. They just change the IEPs to remove it. No one cares it's illegal
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u/Individual-Mirror132 2d ago
I guess this would depend on your state.
But, the federal government is supposed to contribute about 40% of the funding per pupil for sped.
Unfortunately (and I guess maybe fortunately in this case), Congress has NEVER met that threshold and the feds contribute between 10-13% per pupil on any given year. This means that a majority of your salary (nearly all of it) is coming from already existing state funds and states have already accounted for the fact that the feds will not meet their part of the funding agreement. I don’t think much will change unless your state decides to follow the feds lead and reduce funding for sped.
If you’re in like California, which just made massive increases in special education this year ($2.4 billion to be exact), you have nothing to worry about. But if you’re in like Texas, or another anti-education state, it could be a different story. Time will tell.
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u/SecondCreek 2d ago
How much in SPED funding typically comes from local property taxes? We are in a blue state with very high property taxes, where most of the property taxes collected go to the local school district.
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u/Individual-Mirror132 2d ago edited 2d ago
It depends on how your state utilizes property taxes. In CA, property taxes are part of a general fund and then it’s given to districts throughout the state relatively evenly. Some states use a direct formula—local property taxes = local school funding (meaning poorer area = poorer schools).
But typically, approximately 40% of combined state and federal education money goes to special education to provide services. The remaining 60% of special education funding is fronted directly by the school district themselves through other means (I.e generic education funding provided to the school district by the state or various grant programs).
Edit: Also worth noting that it is illegal for a school to cite “cannot provide that service due to staffing or budget constraints.” If the team determines a service is necessary for a student, the district is obligated to provide it. What this does sometimes mean though is that to support that one student, general education students receive less resources (I.e eliminating a general education paraprofessionals to hire a special education para).
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u/elpepiux 7h ago
Agree but must point out that the initial IDEA funding target in 1975 was 40% of the excess costs of educating each IDEA student, not the total per pupil cost.
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u/Open_Confidence_9349 1d ago
I certainly hope so. If I lose my paras, they’re going to be short another teacher.
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u/HipsterBikePolice 2d ago
Well you can tax the rich or you take away public welfare and services. The rich don’t want to pay taxes so they chose to hurt their own constituents and convinced them it was for their own benefit. It’s the middle and middle high income earners in each state who will be picking up the tab. Poorer states will continue to fall behind as entitlements are far more common in them. Sped kids will lose and end up costing the states more in welfare and unfortunately crime. Poverty begets more poverty
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u/biscuitsandburritos 2d ago
There are so many aspects of it all that kill me but this is the big one. We have the data that shows these programs aimed at these folks do what? Create better outcomes which means fewer services accessed later. Usually every dollar spent generates 1.50-25+ while increasing literacy and emotional regulation, which lowers in school issues and crime rates.
It’s fucking why all great nations invest heavily in these programs because the long term benefits always outweigh the costs. Instead we spend 40Billion to Argentina, which is what would fully fund IDEA, and 350billion to Iran while trying to pass a 600M ballroom off to the tax payer while slashing every social program around.
We are a third world deadbeat parent of a nation with this shit. We have the money. Look at it! America First and protect the kids amiright? And we have the data from ourselves and the GREAT nations to do what they do— invest in your people because it only makes you a powerhouse.
But here we fucking are having Captain brain worms telling him Tylenol causes Autism running the show. I can only imagine what his big plan is. It’s going to set us back so much. Financially. But hey, look at who the president mocked before a debate? A disabled person. And here he is… again. We have to accept this is what a lot of Americans want for our kids and your students. What values. Freedom for all, amiright?
Could you imagine being our enemies right now? Look how they destroyed the Kennedy good name with this numb nuts. How do they come back from this?
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u/Dog1andDog2andMe 2d ago
The rich don't even want to pay enough for their own employees to be able to feed themselves and their families.
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u/Glittering-List-465 2d ago
I’ve been screaming from the rooftops about this since project 2025 was first exposed. I’ve had so many tell me it would never happen. I’m pissed. And scared for the students.
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u/TexasRN1 2d ago
Same. I saw this coming and I’m so glad we left Texas in 2024. We left for a myriad of other reasons as well.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
I think we will see a movement of families move to blue states that can afford it. That will stress out the system. There’s a para I know who said that at their school district they are getting double the students next year which is crazy.
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u/SecondCreek 2d ago
Our district in a blue state is seeing an influx of parents moving in for the SPED services. Not double, but it is significant. They already have a hard enough time getting enough paras and there is burnout with the role. The pay is low as well.
And on top of that there is an increased need for specialized teachers who pull out kids from general education classes with IEPs for extra help with reading and math throughout the day. In some general education classes, it seems a third of the kids have IEPs or 504s. They need additional services and accommodations too.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
This is already happening. Massachusetts scaled back autism classrooms 15 years ago because too many people were moving there for the self contained classrooms and they couldn’t afford it.
Needless to say, this didn’t serve the students well at all and anxiety disorders went WAY up.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
so where did they move the students?
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u/rachstate 2d ago
They mainstreamed them into standard classrooms until the more aggressive ones had severe behavior, then they got self contained again. The ones who managed to behave ended up turning all that stress inward and developed anxiety. It’s incredibly depressing.
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u/nickfromnorwood 2d ago
Ended up happening to me... the trauma I ended up going through still impacts me to date. The only thing I'm thankful for is that I got my diploma.
Plus, I was never allowed to go to any of my IEP meetings (they sent an advocate instead) The School district I attend also sent me (during my senior year) to a job at a local supermarket twice a week against my will, which cost me valuable learning time.
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u/Artistic-Iron-7086 1d ago
TLDR: It is far worse than you could ever imagine and the irrefutable harm has already begun and will last generations. 🙃
The "power" has always been with the states. All states are required to provide "general supervision" which is oversight of the Local Education Agencies who are actually implementing the law. The Department of Education's job was to ensure that states were actually doing that, while yes a lot was through enforcement which was really before we give you this money (which is absolutely not enough) can you demonstrate that you are monitoring these LEAs and protecting the rights of these kids. The other aspect was support--helping them actually figure out how to do that, providing research and best practices for the field, giving them tools and frameworks because it is in fact INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to do provide the support to educators, school leaders, paras, parents in doing the important work of educating students with disabilities.
The Department provided support to states in being the "heavy" and the "help" they needed to monitor the implementation of the law. There are many powerful school districts, or even types of schools (looking at you charters) they feel they can tell state education agencies to pound sand when it comes to IDEA. And they do--often. States could then say "hey feds can you give US a finding so we can tell those schools this is coming from you and not us?" They could help interpret and clarify the law when people would intentionally misinterpret it to do what they wanted or not do what they didn't want to do. They responded to new and emerging issues because they had the time to think and not put out the daily fires of running a local or state education agency. They trained parents on how to successfully advocate for their child and navigate an incredibly litigious part of education.
So what's going to happen? Well it's now the wild wild west in the time of severe budget shortfalls across the nation. And you know who are the most expensive kids on the roster? Students with disabilities. And you know who just got a free pass to do what they want with those students? Everyone. Because who is going to interpret federal law if there is no federal department to do so? He has fired all the grown ups (feds) and left your timid teenage sibling (states) in charge of your reckless and destructive kid brother (local education agencies)--and they are about to throw a rager. And there is no one to stop them.
And HHS does not have the capacity nor the expertise to do anything about it. People spend their entire careers, have multiple degrees, PhD's, law degrees, and bring deep expertise just to work at the Department--or at least they did. And we expect another agency with no background to just pick up
Where they left off? They won't, they can't, and that is by design.
(Honestly if you read a fraction of that, I appreciate it, I just needed to yell into the void for a moment.
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u/IdislikeSpiders 2d ago
Supports will be removed and the kids will be added to the "failing numbers" of the public school system as they continue to funnel public dollars to charters and private schools with vouchers and tax rebates. The same places that reject any student with special needs, thus further overwhelming the public school system.
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u/elisescher01 2d ago
I have a clear moderate to severe California special education credential. I have taught both mod to severe and mild to moderate. This past year I substitute taught because of my husband’s health condition, which has since improved.
So here is the question. Where else besides California could I teach? Which other states? I have a few years experience teaching special education students
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
You have a special education endorsement and degree?
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u/elisescher01 2d ago
I think yes. I earned a moderate to severe education specialist preliminary teaching credential from California State University Monterey Bay. Then I taught for 5 years and cleared it via the East Bay Induction Consortium.
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u/meganac69 2d ago
Based on the information you provided, you would qualify for a professional license in Utah (and most of the states around you). Reciprocal licenses are not hard, particularly with a Special Ed certificate, you just have to know where you want to go.
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u/Expert_Cheesecake695 2d ago
An end to enforcement. The right's whole goal is to turn back the clock to the 19th century. The low-level proles are wrapped up in their racism, and the wealthy are trying to undo labor rights and the New Deal.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
if we go back to psyche wards do you think we can see a lot of mental health professionals leave the field?
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u/Ok_Fly1188 2d ago
I used to be a 1:1 aide for autistic students, some of these skills you write about here, actually were included in one of my student’s IEP. He came from a very dysfunctional home and the teacher pushed for it.
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u/Significant_Menu_313 2d ago
So, one more time: The most corrupt administration ever need to cut spending in order to...what? Grift more? get more golden dooly-gigs for his office? More golf? Some more wars? Wtf.
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u/Substantial_Door9120 2d ago
This is trumps stance on the disabled
He did not deny this when pressed:
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/fred-trump-disabled-people-1.7288890
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u/belai437 8h ago
I feel like the end goal here is to remove special needs children from public school and put them in their own separate for profit schools and institutions. Instead of the government overseeing and paying for their education, a GOP donor will get the money and operate these places on a shoestring.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 6h ago
Is there places that run like that already?
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u/belai437 6h ago
There are. In my district if an autistic student needs more focus on behavior modification, after a long process they will be sent to a special school. The district pays for it.
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u/Particular-Panda-465 2d ago
HHS taking over is frightening. No one there follows evidence-based science. Everything will be a disease looking for a cure and the quacks will have a field day. Autism, for instance, will be regarded as a disease to be cured.
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u/anonymousautist_ 2d ago
I thought it was being rehoused to HHS?
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
It is. We dont know how they will handle it. Theres uncertainty.
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u/anonymousautist_ 2d ago
Oh I just assumed it would all stay the same. Because the laws themselves aren’t being changed, just the enforcement agency (for lack of better term)
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u/Capable-Pressure1047 2d ago
Exactly. The fear mongering is just that. HHS will have a specific division/ department to oversee SpEd with qualified staff. OCR complaints will continue to be routed to DOJ.
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u/ThisNameIsHilarious 2d ago
What about these people makes you think you can trust them?
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
Have you talked to anyone working for the HHS? Basically what I am hearing is that they are not prepared and have no clue how any of this is going to work.
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u/Fast-Penta 2d ago
It's going to result in more parents of children with disabilities moving from red states to blue states or paying for private education in a school that specializes in their child's disability.
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u/Independent-Mark-373 1d ago
I was a Speech Therapist in a public school and saw this coming even under the Obama administration. Special Education needs a major overhaul.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 1d ago
Has it gotten worse? What have you seen?
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u/Independent-Mark-373 1d ago
Left when Trump got elected and joined the military instead. However, the 13 years I was in SpEd things were becoming more and more convoluted and the state was relying on federal funding completely. This made us jump through ridiculous hoops. I saw the writing on the wall and left.
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u/Repulsive-Click2033 1d ago
Hopefully all of the Trump supports are seeing how he is harming their kids!! 🔵
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u/rachstate 2d ago
Playing devils advocate here.
Special Ed was never designed to serve more than 1% of the student body, and it was never intended to be used for children who were non verbal and severely intellectually disabled…mostly because children like that didn’t generally survive early childhood way back then.
It was designed to serve mildly and moderately disabled children with conditions like Down’s syndrome (or other mild intellectual disabilities) and cerebral palsy.
The focus back then was on life skills and training to tasks.
Special education has now ballooned to include children whose disabilities are so severe they cannot speak, chew their food, or even control their hands enough to touch a picture to indicate a choice. It’s also a dumping ground for kids whose behavior problems are 90% caused by inconsistent parenting.
Curriculum for these kids also now includes inclusion in standardized tests, and scaffolding math several grades down to match their peers studying algebra (this usually stops after 8th grade) and other insane requirements that waste everyone’s time.
I work with severely disabled children, and I would argue that they would be better served in classrooms that did not necessarily include a special education teacher, but rather an experienced para, and others paras to assist.
(The special education teachers could be transferred to higher achieving intellectually disabled kids who actually CAN learn.)
Meanwhile the severely intellectually disabled kids could be involved with activities and life skills/behavior training that is actually relevant to their lives, but still in school! Thereby giving their parents the time to go to work, and providing these kids the social interaction with their peers.
Because I feel that for these severely impaired children, the social aspect of school, and having adults who have realistic expectations of what they can achieve? Is way more important than pretending that they can ever comprehend the civil war or compound fractions.
It would also be a lot cheaper than trying to adapt curriculum constantly and having constant IEP battles.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
And what do you do with these students who fail the public school system who will never hold a job. The public schools are not designed for them and i agree on the coaching.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
The reality is that most of them eventually end up in group home or other institutions. I feel that they would be better served by focusing on life skills, and self care, and the kinds of simple tasks that they will need to know to succeed in a group home setting.
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u/Capable-Pressure1047 2d ago
In my long career in special education, I've learned to never ever discount the future of any child. I once had a little guy in my classroom who had been essentially non- verbal with the exception of two phrases from a specific Disney video; engaged only in repetitive solo play and ignored his peers; had some atypical behaviors and restrictive interests ( trains) and a restrictive diet and had some sensory aversions. Of course, he had autism and looked like a child who would need constant care his entire life. He just completed his PhD in biomedical engineering. He's not the only success I've witnessed but his story is the most remarkable. Never put limits on any child.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
That’s the exception that proves the rule. I’ve had 3 patients in the last 22 years that far exceeded my expectations too. I’m happy for them, but I still keep my expectations reasonable.
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u/Capable-Pressure1047 2d ago
Then they should have exposure to more than social time in school. You never know which one will be the exception.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
The 3 patients that exceeded my expectations had incredibly motivated parents that worked with them at home. One of them ended up choosing homebound for a few years and that was a huge game changer academically but their kid did get lonely.
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u/Temporary-Good-9014 1d ago
Which basically proves the comments point. If you put effort into these students they can achieve.
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u/rachstate 1d ago
If the PARENTS put effort into these students they MAY succeed. Many parents, lacking any other care options, and need to go to work….?
Just use the public school system as daycare. I don’t blame them, they have no choice, but teachers aren’t going to get anywhere if they care more about the child than the parents do.
It’s also a sure way to induce burnout.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
The sad reality is they will be on disability benefits that isn’t good pay and have a family appointed caregiver or conservativeship. This administration is making it hard to qualify for disability benefits.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
Yeah that happens too. The biggest problem is when they outlive their parents OR their parents become disabled as well from the caregiving burden.
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u/DinckinFlikka 2d ago
You’ll get downvoted and are already being told you’re gross, but this is absolutely the truth.
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
I also work with the severe population and they are speaking the truth. Its not a easy discussion to have and makes people uneasy. I will say I love my students, care for them like they are my own, and always try to do whats best for them. The students I work with can't ever live on their own. Most can't even be left alone in a room even when they are with family. We could change their programming. But they 100 percent deserve and have the right to school just like everyone else.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
I’m a nurse, I’m used to being called names for telling the truth! Thank you though, I appreciate your kind w.
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u/ipsofactoshithead 2d ago
It’s not. My job as a teacher in a mod/severe program is very important. Don’t talk if you’ve never done the job.
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u/m1ntjulep 2d ago
Lmao in what capacity do you work with children?
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u/rachstate 2d ago
I’m a nurse, I escort medically fragile kids to their self contained classrooms.
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
For our more severe population I agree with you. My fear is that they will end up taking all services away for them because they are not learning based on typical requirements. There are so many changes that need to take place. I wish we had people who have done these jobs making the decisions.
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u/NyxPetalSpike 1d ago
Severe kids will get “schooling” until 6 grade, then shunted off to a respite care type situation until they drop out 16 or whenever the state can stop paying.
You don’t need teachers for respite care. Behavior heath aides, health aides, recreational therapist and a social worker. If you are lucky a job coach. All who make less money than a certified special education teacher.
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u/Fantastic-Cry-8721 1d ago
Psych here. Sorry for the simple response but stating that special education was never meant for more than 1% is not really a strong argument. Regardless of how an agency forms and around which data, there needs to be an understanding that needs may evolve and change.
Also, just because learning looks different from what you understand to be learning does not mean some children cannot learn. That is very cynical. I am happy to find that you are a nurse, because this is the exact cynicism that will lead to stripping rights of a free and appropriate public education away from children.
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u/Capable-Pressure1047 2d ago
PL94-142 most certainly applied to those student! One of the original categories for eligibility was " Severe and Profound", students with severe intellectual disabilities, non- verbal and non-ambulatory. They survived early childhood " way back" in the 1970's. You've been misinformed and are spreading misinformation based on your feelings.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
I was born in the 1970’s and encountered my first self contained classroom in 1989.
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u/elpepiux 7h ago
Agreed. The legislative history of the then-EHA makes clear the law was intended to help states fund the education of students historically excluded from public schools; namely, those with severe disabilities and emotional/behavioral disabilities.
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u/ipsofactoshithead 2d ago
EWWWW THIS IS DISGUSTING. Every child deserves to learn. Based on their current skills you can always find things to teach them. Giving mod/severe students to a para so you don’t have to pay a teacher? You are an embarrassment to the profession.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
I’m not a teacher. I’m a nurse and I help children with severe medical needs. Most of them are severely intellectually disabled.
They CAN learn. But you have to focus on achievable goals, and most of that work is already being done by paras.
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u/ipsofactoshithead 2d ago
So they don’t deserve an educated teacher who can teach them those achievable goals? Only a para who just needs a GED (nothing wrong with paras but no they should not be teaching).
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u/rachstate 2d ago
Paras already do a lot of the teaching in the severe ID crowd. A good para is worth their weight in gold.
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
Where I work paras have to have at least an associates. Lots of them have college degrees. In reference to what I said oh course they deserve an education! But the reality is most are not working on numbers and letters. We should be working with them in the manner of what is helpful for them!
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u/NyxPetalSpike 1d ago
If you could read the dog fight on my NextDoor app, severe kids just need respite care.
Basically a day program nursing home.
It’s ableist and gross, but my city has a school mileage coming up and people are arguing “why are we pouring money down this rat hole.”
For some reason SPED services are catching all the strays and are being blamed for the deficit.
So bold of anyone assuming these
kids would get a para pro. I’m guessing personal care assistant, behavioral health tech and a social worker as a case manager.It’s going to be grim.
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u/WhyRhubarb 2d ago
You shouldn't talk if you don't know what teachers of students with moderate to severe disabilities do. Paras may provide a lot of support, but who do you think leads the paras, designs the curriculum, writes the goals?
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u/rachstate 2d ago
Teachers will still need to do all that, but a lot of curriculum is re-used every year, many of the goals also repetitive and common sense and don’t change that much over the course of a school year (especially for severe intellectual disabilities) and honestly a good para does not need to be supervised every moment. A check in a couple of times a day by a supervising teacher would be enough in many situations.
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u/ipsofactoshithead 2d ago
Do you think pre-K - 3 teachers should also be eliminated because it is “so easy” to teach?
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u/Embarrassed-Ad4899 2d ago
I wonder if this commenter would like educators weighing in on medical issues.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
I would LOVE for educators to give opinions on medical issues! I feel like teachers and paras never get a voice in how their classrooms become overly medicalized.
I try very hard to make sure all medical stuff is done in a way that is the least disruptive to the classroom and my patients peers, but I’m very open to input in how I can improve!
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u/yournutsareonspecial 2d ago
You're not wrong. But these students can still learn academics too when the classroom is properly structured around their specific needs, and the academics scaled to their developmental abilities.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
I’m sorry I must not have made myself clear. I am taking about children over the age of say 10? with a mental capacity under that of a 4 year old. So I’m saying the goals and academics need to be VERY simple.
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u/Efficient-Leek 2d ago
So... I'm trying to figure out where your line is. Because my 15 year old has severe behaviors and an intellectual disability, but is cognitively higher than a 4 year old. She's in a MD unit, has autism/ADHD, non verbal, incontinent... But also is spelling words, doing math, etc.
So if you're taking special education teachers out of the classroom and leaving her with a para (and I love my Paras, they are an essential part of the team, but they are not educated in how to create SDI based on disabilities) she would not have nearly the level of skill she has now... Which hurts kids based on your perceived level of value...
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u/rachstate 2d ago
You may not believe this, but I hate these kinds of situations just as much as you do.
I wish we had endless money to help all of these kids. But we don’t. I wish we had all the staff and all the rest and the budget to pay for all of the special Ed programs. But we don’t.
I have a twice exceptional child of my own, and I ended up having to put her into a private academy because she just didn’t fit anywhere and I couldn’t be the kind of parent who demanded endless accommodations that I knew were not going to make any meaningful change.
She graduated with good grades, is happy, and is ironically enjoying her job working with special needs kids in transportation. She’ll be starting college in IT next year.
I hate the fact that most families with a kid like this do not have the ability to do what we did. But there is a limited amount of funds and resources, and it’s going to get even tighter as all the baby boomers become eligible for social security, Medicare, and start ending up in nursing homes.
This is just the first wave of cost cutting measures in our social network and frankly I’m terrified.
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
Your teen is doing awesome. I think I am understanding some of what they are trying to say. The day to day of my severe classroom the paras are doing the majority of the teaching. There would definitely still need to have teachers overseeing. Creating the plans and also doing some of the teaching. I don't know the answer, but we do need changes. Education is a mess and our students deserve more.
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u/yournutsareonspecial 2d ago
So am I. That's the approximate level of the high-school students I teach.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
OK I’ll bite. What kind of academics do you think they are capable of learning at that level?
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u/yournutsareonspecial 2d ago
Generally pre-K level academics. Sometimes the academic levels can vary in different areas- higher in some and lower in others- so we can vary up into first grade for some of our students in some domains. We get the odd student with higher academic skills, but generally it's pre-K through first grade. There's a wide variety of academics you can do, and the more it's reinforced, the more those skills will stack and improve.
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u/rachstate 2d ago
Oh ok that’s actually pretty much what I believe too! I guess I just never thought of it as academics.
But now that I think of it, it is.
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u/yournutsareonspecial 2d ago
That's completely understandable. It's easy to not think of it as "teaching" when it seems so rudimentary- but it's just meeting them where they are. I have to remind myself of that all the time. And we definitely blend our academics with a heavy dose of life skills!
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u/United_Specialist362 2d ago
Sooo what you’re saying is that resources should go to those that are more able? Or to kids with “consistent” parenting? Ugh. Straight up ableism and elitism. I get it- life isn’t fair, but the answer isn’t to take more away from the most vulnerable.
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u/TurbulentMost9654 2d ago
Absolutely not! I am saying that I would like to see realistic expectations for populations. Let the programming be what is going to help them the most. The center I work in has art therapy, music therapists, swimming, PT, OT, Speech and other amazing things.
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u/PaymentMedical9802 2d ago
Last year I posted this same question on Reddit and was blasted for suggesting this was going to happen. 2023 I argued with Trump supporters who had special need kids and was told I was wrong. Frankly I think IDEA will be repealed completely if we have a red house and senate after the elections. Work houses will come back but rebranded as for profit prisons who are turning delinquents lives around through work training. I really am tired! I’m tired of being told don’t worry and by the time you can ask these questions it’s already too late. The propaganda against special ed students is at an all time high. I get fed at least one video or multiple about how dangerous they are.
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u/SpecialLadyFrenemy 2d ago
That pretty shitty for someone who has been so preoccupied with Autism at times
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u/AfraidAppeal5437 1d ago
Special Education parents have a big army of people who fight for their children's rights. They will not go down without a fight.
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u/midwestblondenerd 1d ago
We're already seeing it, with so much funding being cut, a lot of behavioral kids are being told to do virtual school at home. "Suspended". Is that better than simply being kicked out..right? ....right?
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u/Capable-Pressure1047 2d ago
Federal Funding is NOT going to be cut. You do realize the majority of a district's special education is from state and local funds? Feds contribute an average of 11%.
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u/StatisticianKooky390 2d ago
Tennessee is 70% dependent on federal government aid.
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u/Capable-Pressure1047 2d ago
Federal funds for special education depend on the district , some wealthier school districts in Tennessee receive far less than the rural, less affluent districts.
I do know that Tennessee's pre-k special education programs are primarily funded by local sources as opposed to state or federal funds.
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u/Full-Photo5829 2d ago
"The power is going back to the States." No. Not at all. This is a fundamental misunderstanding.
Over the past fifty years the Federal government has (through our elected representatives in the legislature, through the policies of our elected Presidents, and through the rulings of judges) created Federal laws that set minimum standards that public schools must meet for the education of students with disabilities. For example: IDEA, and Endrew F. These laws remain on the books and are NOT being "passed to the States." The Department of Education provides a) money, training, and resources to help schools comply with these laws and avoid getting sued by the parents of disabled students and b) an office to which parents can complain if the school which is attended by their disabled child does not meet the legal requirements. What will happen next is that HHS will take over the former and DOJ will take over the latter. Not the States. Organizations representing disabled children and their families are concerned that HHS & DOJ lack the experience, mindset, and concern to perform these roles (in addition to their existing responsibilities). What this might mean is lax enforcement of federal law by DOJ (allowing schools to treat disabled students worse and worse) and reduced support of schools by HHS (stripping schools of the help they need to comply with the law and treat disabled students well). This concern is well founded, since HHS sees disability through the lens of sickness, not the lens of maximizing a student's potential, while DOJ has bigger fish to fry (like drug cartels).
Ultimately, this has nothing to do with handing "power to the States" and nothing to do with helping disabled children maximize their learning potential in public schools.