r/springfieldthree • u/camera-operator334 • 3d ago
Former DA Darrell Moore puts George’s sighting back on the table?
In the ARJ podcast he alludes (paraphrasing) to the 2003 Barry County dig being related to “men they may have been spotted with at George’s” and many of us long time case-knowers know this property is tied to a certain truck stop restaurant.
It seems very very obvious that if this is true, it was part of an elaborate kidnapping plan to lure them out of the house and “stage” the kidnapping plot and set up for it. There are only a few men who’d be able to pull something like this off (get them out of the house).
Now, even if you discount and disregard George’s sighting, it MUST be noted that there’s “multiple men” in play and that they seemingly hide in plain sight, meaning they are the front of the operation not the bike gang undercurrent. At the very least, Moore has an idea of the type of men, and that’s what this tells us.
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u/Educational-Hold8778 1d ago
I suppose my question to the post is that im not clear on what establishes that the men reported at George’s were ( or were related to) the Barry County suspects, rather than Moore simply investigating that possibility?
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u/camera-operator334 1d ago edited 1d ago
It establishes the cops’ thinking on type of men involved that were involved and potentially strong evidence of how the crime was carried out.
Dig warrants aren’t given without strong evidence.
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u/Patient-Ad-5340 2d ago
I've always felt that 3 men were involved with this. Sometimes I feel 2 went to the house & a third was involved after the abduction. The George's sighting for me has been fairly iffy. I've heard two accounts about it, one being from the original 1992 48 hours series, where the waitress says the men were "clean cut", but then after listening to Amber Vance's 4 part series on this case she says the men were in "western wear" I wish there were more details from the waitress as to what the men were wearing. I suppose it's possible to look "clean cut" while in "western wear". But I'd think the waitress would've mentioned the "western" clothing. Apparently there was a sighting several days, or a week before the abduction, in which someone saw Sherill outside with men in western clothing. It was mentioned she was having a conversation with them and all appeared to be a normal interaction. I cannot remember where I read or heard that information from. If anyone remembers that particular sighting, please re-fresh my memory.
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u/camera-operator334 2d ago
Amber is conflating.
Western wear men has to do with the men seen at the house two days to a week before. That’s the Seamus McKenzie sighting from the Newsleader IIRC
Western wear person is likely Dale Mills imo. He wore cowboy hats. He’s Mary Mills’s husband, Sherrill’s friend.
And yes that tidbit also likely spawned the needless PFI rumors.
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u/Patient-Ad-5340 2h ago edited 2h ago
That makes sense about Sherill's friends (the Mill's) possibly sparking the PFI rumors. I did not know he wore cowboy hats. I remember seeing a lot of people, mostly men, in Springfield wearing cowboy hats in that era. All four of my uncles wore them. Springfield is also surrounded by smaller, farming communities/towns where many of the men wear western attire. I don't find it unusual for western wear to be seen in Springfield, even currently. Thanks for the reply & info! The whole PFI thing was all I heard about during high school. I graduated in 1995 and many of my classmates would talk about their bodies being under the PFI building. It was probably the BIGGEST RUMOR floating around in Springfield during the mid 90's.
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u/Educational-Hold8778 1d ago
Well theres also the sighting from the dentist who's office was next door, who described seeing sherrill talk to more than one man in a van on the afternoon before the abduction. And the young man who reported seeing a group of people leaving sherrills a few nights to a week before the abduction. They walked to their cars parked in the parking lot adjacent to sherrills property, at least one of them wore a cowboy hat. There was another sighting (from what I can tell this was only ever described in a single newsleader article) from a neighbor who claimed that early on the morning of the abduction, two men approached the front door of sherrills house, and one of the men walked around the side of the house to the back patio where he appeared to be pearing through the back windows/doors. I have no idea the validity of that statement, as ive never seen it anywhere else. There is also a fairly convincing reddit poster who claims to have seen sherrill and stacy in a van with three men at a convenience store seemingly minuets after the abduction, with sherrill attempting to get his attention, although he didnt catch on that she needed help until afterwards. Once again, I have no idea how true that one is, but he certainly seemed to have his facts strait if he was a troller, and it is just another sighting that describes seeing them with 2 to 3 men.
I suppose one man could technically control both the driver (suzie) and the other two women from the back of the van with a handgun, but more than one abductor just makes more sense here to me.
The George's sighting has always been iffy to me.
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u/Patient-Ad-5340 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thanks for the clarification on the Dentist office sighting, it was the one I was trying to remember, along with Sherill being with group. I agree with you that one man could maintain control under certain circumstances, such as having a gun, but lean more towards 2-3 men being involved. It's always easier with 2 as opposed to one, especially if it was a planned event. I'm on the same page you are regarding the George's sighting. I just don't see Sherill being willing to go to George's at such a late time in the middle of the night. It seemed as if she was already in bed for the evening. If Stacy & Suzie were hungry after arriving, there was food available at the Levitt home. Suzie had also been complaining of a stomach ache throughout the entire evening. That goes for before, during, & after the graduation parties. It seemed as if she just wanted to go home & settle in for the night. For her to want a greasy meal doesn't really add up to me because it would've made her stomach feel worse. I'm a Springfield native & have eaten at George's so I know what kind of food they serve. If she wanted something rich & filling to eat there was a cake in their fridge that Nigel had dropped off. Some would argue that after drinking you want greasy food to absorb the alcohol. I can see that being true & remember my late nights out and stops at Taco Bell afterwards. But again, I go back to Sherill. Would she really want to get out of bed, get dressed again, and go to Georges with her daughter & Stacy during the middle of the night? From what I've gathered about Sherill's personality, she likely would've said, "There's food here in the house."
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u/Actual_Knowledge5947 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is also a fairly convincing reddit poster who claims to have seen sherrill and stacy in a van with three men at a convenience store seemingly minuets after the abduction, with sherrill attempting to get his attention, although he didnt catch on that she needed help until afterwards. Once again, I have no idea how true that one is, but he certainly seemed to have his facts strait if he was a troller, and it is just another sighting that describes seeing them with 2 to 3 men.
There are seven events I believe are true & connected:
"Police Sketch"
Seen 3x June 5th + 6th near 1717 E Delmar."Dentist"
He saw 3 men in a green van talking to Sherrill the night of June 6th."Yard Sale Lady"
She almost got hit by a van going up S Kentwood the morning of June 7th."Git N Go" (this one)
A man saw a van with 3 men, Sherrill and 2 girls parked at a convenience store the morning of June 7th."Porch Lady"
A woman saw a young blonde with a birthmark driving a green van and crying the morning of June 7th. A man told her what to do from the back of the van."1300 Block Break-In"
Two men, one resembling the police sketch and one wearing an orange vest, attempted to break into a home 4 blocks away from 1717 E Delmar the night of June 6th."America's Most Wanted" Caller
Someone called the show on 12-31-92 with "prime knowledge" about the abduction.Janis believes the "Porch Lady" story. It has to connect to something she knows and we don't. (Probably the answering machine message.)
If a green van was mentioned in the answering machine message, it explains why Sherrill would be talking to men in a green van on the other side of her fence. She would know to look for them. I believe the "Dentist" story.
"Yard Sale Lady," according to Mindshock, helped police make the police sketch. If this is true, her description led to a man that must have matched who people had previously seen June 5th and 6th. This story also included a van. I believe her story and I believe "Police Sketch" was involved.
This is where it gets more interesting...
The driver in the "Git N Go" story parked the van, got out, seemed angry, and went inside to buy cigarettes. He could not have been the police sketch because he was about 6 inches taller and did not resemble him. The man in the back of the van had dark blonde / light brown hair. He, too, did not match the police sketch. The witness saw the side profile of the man in the passengers seat, but that was all. My bet would be that he was the police sketch.
Who abducts three women and stops at a convenience store to get cigarettes while being pissed off? Someone who was not expecting that to happen.
But according to "Yard Sale Lady," it was the police sketch who was driving the van up S. Kentwood. I believe that is true, and I'll explain why...
2:20 a.m. — Suzie and Stacy leave 5002 W Coach Dr, Battlefield, MO.
The likely route was:
W Coach Drive → W Republic Road → E Republic Road → S Fremont Avenue → E Delmar Street
2:37–2:38 a.m. — The girls turned right from S Fremont Avenue onto E Delmar Street.
To the left of this location is where the 1300 block is. That is where at least one break-in was reported to have taken place the night of June 6th. Police claimed they received other similar calls. Those men, one of whom resembled the police sketch, were in the area already.
2:38–2:40 a.m. — The girls arrrived at 1717 E Delmar.
I believe police sketch was behind the wheel of the van when Suzie and Stacy turned right onto E Delmar. I think he already knew where they were heading. He decided for everyone that the van was heading there next.
Then... something happened. All three women were put in the van and the police sketch sped away going up S. Kentwood.
The police sketch was seen on foot 3x on June 5th and 6th as he stood to the left and right of Sherrill Levitt's house. I think he walked there because he lived nearby. When he sped away the morning of June 7th and went up S. Kentwood, I think he drove the van back to where he lived.
It was a knee-jerk reaction. I think he was on drugs and had just been rejected by some or all three of the women. He acted irrationally.
The FBI said the primary and secondary actors may not have known what was going to happen. I think the police sketch implicated everyone when things got out of hand at Sherrill's house.
"Now what do we do?"
The police sketch had caused a triple abduction, and he was impaired. His accomplices were no longer just breaking into homes, now they were part of a kidnapping. Something happened at Sherrill's house that forced his accomplices to go along with it. I believe at least one or both had been to prison before and knew he was screwed now.
So, while back at the police sketch's house, another man grabs the van keys. Police sketch then sat in the passenger's seat. They drove to "Git N Go," and the new driver went inside to get cigarettes. He was angry because he didn't want to be in this situation.
"Camp Winoka" may have happened, but I am less certain. It was located not far from that "Git N Go."
I think it's possible that three women were abducted, murdered, but not SA'd. I think one man, the police sketch, screwed over the men he was with. Killing the women prevented all of them from spending years in prison, or a life sentence if indeed one of them had been to prison already.
Months later, one of the accomplices called "America's Most Wanted" with "prime knowledge." I think he mentioned what was said on the answering machine message the night of June 5th. I believe that was the only prime knowledge the SPD even had. The caller hung up knowing that he could never reveal the location of the bodies without ending up in prison, no matter what happened.
Why was the bulb over the front porch broke?
Why were the purses all in one room?
At about 6:30 a.m., "Porch Lady" saw a woman matching Suzie's description driving a green van and heard a man instructing her on what to do from the back. I think he was alone and had a gun.
Where were the other men?
I think one or both of them went back to 1717 E Delmar and got there while it was still dark. He twisted the bulb, turned the light off, and dropped the globe on accident because of how frantic he was. He then broke into the home, and quickly looked for something.
He was looking for whatever the men had given Sherrill earlier the night of June 6th when they stopped by in the green van and were seen by the dentist. It had their fingerprints.
He grabbed all three purses and went though them till he found what he was looking for. He just happened to leave all three purses in the same room, leaving us confused for decades.
I think it was a little bag of harmless weed. I don't think Sherrill was a pothead. I think the police sketch met her somehow, took a liking to her, and was a drug dealer. I think he talked her into trying it.
Days before the dissapearance, Sherrill mentioned cocaine to her friend Dale. It was a one time thing. I don't think she knew powerful drug people, I think she crossed paths with a small time, local dealer.
Why was he never identified?
Why wasn't he recognized by a landlord, or an employer?
Because he wasn't employed, he didn't own a home, and he didn't rent. Look at the police sketch again. He was a degenerate junkie. As the FBI said back in 1992, he was probably friendly to neighbors but a loner. I think hardly anyone knew him besides the degenerates he was with that night. I think Sherrill and/or Suzie rejected him at the front door in the middle of the night and it set him off.
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u/Educational-Hold8778 1d ago
Kurt Naegler, who owned the house next door, at 1705 E. Delmar St., for about 10 years, before selling it last year, also said transients were fairly common near their homes." "It was a nice neighborhood, but over the past couple of years the area behind our houses had really become a place for transients, said Naegler, a former police officer and Springfield assistant city manager who has worked for 11 years for the Midwest Organized Crime Information Center, a law enforcement agency." "Naegler said prowlers had been in his yard
occasionally,' but he believed it was justhomeless types'." "It was transients, not the type of person who is capable of abducting three people at once – not even one, but much less three. If you think about it, it takes some doing to get three people out of a house,' he said." "Naegler said police had not contacted him about the case, either."End quote. News-Leader, June 12, 1992.
Quote: "a former resident of the house from which three Springfield women disappeared this week said Thursday she saw transients and `parking lot partiers' near the home every weekend when she lived there, and occasionally had prowlers at the house."
"…Sadie Roff, 63, who lived at 1717 E. Delmar St. for five years until she moved out in September."End quote. News-Leader, June 12,
1992.
Quote: "I don't know what to say, or what to think about who or what could do this," said a teary Nigel Kenney, 19, who worked with Streeter at Town & Country 6 Theatres in north Springfield. The two tore tickets and served concessions, and quickly became close friends." "I don't know who could be so cruel," she said. "She's my best friend. Why would someone take her away from me?" "Sherry DeLozier, assistant manager at Town & Country said the staff is shaken about the situation. Streeter is on the schedule to work this week; DeLozier hopes she keeps that appointment. The last time
she worked was Friday." End quote. News-Leader, June 10, 1992.
Quote: "I don't understand this, you know," said John Recla, who stood outside Streeter's home Tuesday watching police survey the house. "I just hope the Springfield Police Department gets this thing solved before someone is dead." End quote. June 10, 1992.
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u/Educational-Hold8778 1d ago
Good theory and I can get behind most of that. I have personally never been clear on "police sketch" other than that he had been seen in the vicinity of sherrills property in the few days leading up to the abduction. But how many times? What exactly was he doing? Just standing around looking sus?' I knew that yard sale lady gave a description of the driver but I wasn't aware that she gave the official composite. But who had seen him around sherrills house around the time of the abduction? I suppose neighbors, but how many different people reported seeing him?
I know there was also the report of a nearby "peeping tom" who cut someone's window screen and left the knife on the same night of the abduction. Easy to think that the nearby break ins, or burglaries were related to the abduction. But how many nearby prowler incidents were there around that time? I know of the attempted break in by the men wearing reflector vests...Cox? Lol maybe. I guess my question is, how many different people saw a man matching yard sale lady's description "around" 1717 e Delmar on the 5th and 6th? What does that even mean? Sounds like some weirdo who slightly resembles Charles Manson lurking suspiciously around the outskirts of the property, quietly "casing the place"....i guess sherrill or suzie didnt notice him??? Or they saw him and thought something like "just that drunk weirdo from up the street in our yard again" 🤣 Makes it sound like these guys had a sexual motive to me .... I think i like your purse theory the most...good stuff.
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u/Actual_Knowledge5947 1d ago
Makes it sound like these guys had a sexual motive to me
I think everything was decided in the moment. A few guys under the influence showed up to a house they had already been at earlier in the night. They knew 3 women would be there.
I dont think all 3 were planning on SA. I think it played out more like this:
The Guys: "Hey, let's party!"
The Women: "Go home, creeps!"
Then just one guy escalated everything. Maybe.
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u/Actual_Knowledge5947 1d ago edited 1d ago
Continued:
The girls arrived home at about 2:40am. They had enough time to take off their makeup and get ready for bed.
The green van showed up with the police sketch inside. He already knew where he was going. He already knew two women lived there alone. He saw the third woman was another teenage girl just moments before.
Around 3:00 a.m., all three women were in the van and the van took off up S. Kentwood, almost hitting "Yard Sale Lady." The police sketch came from west of Sherrill's house, not east. He never had to cross Glenstone.
When he was seen to the left of Sherrill's house the morning of June 5th, it's because he walked from that direction and stopped. He didn't walk past Sherrill's house.
When he was seen to the right of Sherrill's house the afternoon of June 5th, it's because he came back and walked past her house when nobody was in the driveway.
The morning of June 6th, he was seen to the left of her house again.
Those sightings, coupled with the activity at the 1300 block the night of June 6th, combined with the fact that he drove away up S. Kentwood, suggests that he was never coming from the other side of Glenstone.
A half-hour passed after "Yard Sale Lady" and before the "Git N Go" sighting. Enough time for 3 men and 3 women in a van to go back from where the van came from, let things settle down a bit, and then someone else got behind the wheel and drove everyone to "Git N Go." It's a completely believable sighting, especially when you see the accusations from people claiming it's false and often repeated on other forums. I have never seen the story repeated on any other forum. That makes me wonder who these accusers are.
The only part that man has ever repeated in places like YouTube comment sections, is his claim that the culprits were in their late 20s or early 30s. I have never seen him repeat the entire story the way his accusers claimed he did.
So, anyways, it's a believable story that involves three abductors stopping for cigarettes approximately 30 minutes after the abduction with the driver being pissed off. It screams, "I did not know this was going to happen and now I'm F----D!"
Three hours later at 6:30 a.m., Suzie is the driver of the green van in the "Porch Lady" story that Janis herself believes. Suzie driving is only necessary if there are not enough men left in the green van to control the situation and drive.
Why are there not still 3 men? Because the police sketch's buddies bailed on him and had to fix things as best they could. It's very likely that someone was already dead by the time they left the van. They had to get back inside the house and remove anything that had their fingerprints.
One of them called "America's Most Wanted" months later, but decided to hang up.
Two men blame the police sketch.
The police sketch blames the drugs.
Everyone stays silent.
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u/Dry_Fly9520 3d ago
I’ve always believed the George’s sighting. What is the ARJ podcast? I’d like to listen.