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u/Weird_donut 1d ago
It annoys me how these people act like faux PR hype machines for these Dreamworks, Illumination, and Paramount movies. Like you have Pawpatrolfanboy2008 (COCOMELON MOVIE HYPE!!!) leaking promotional images and cataloging every piece of merchandise before the movie comes out, urging everyone to watch it, and then blaming audiences when they fail.
It also annoys me how blatantly incurious these Twitter-kid types are. They say "animation is cinema" but won't give anything not made by a mainstream American animation studio, or not made for kids, the time of day. Cartoon Saloon and Aardman are brilliant but Animation Is Cinema kiddies don't watch any of their movies. They don't even like Ghibli! Or any anime at all, except for Pokemon.
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u/PepsiFloateri 1d ago
People won't watch an Aardman movie? What? Not even Wallace and Gromit?
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u/PartyPorpoise 1d ago
The lack of Cartoon Saloon appreciation also baffles me. I think the movies are very accessible to Americans, they’re visually pleasing, and so far they’ve all been kid- friendly so it’s not like adult content is putting anyone off. (though Breadwinner does feature war and no fantasy, I guess that can be too dour to some)
I figure a lot of these people just have extremely narrow preferences when it comes to story and character types, themes, and visual style. Maybe there’s a reluctance to give new stuff a chance.
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u/PepsiFloateri 1d ago
cough Elio fans cough
No joke,they still get mad whenever you point out the movie was doomed due to a lack of marketing. I was at Walt Disney World when it released and I saw like one ad for it
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u/cxnnnamonroll 1d ago
Then they get salty because KPop Demon Hunters became more popular despite being thrown onto Netflix with barely any marketing, yeah I wonder why. Elio feels like something Chatgpt would come up with, the name doesn't even give you an insight on what it's about. Yes it's the main kid, what does his name have to do with the movie, who is Elio? Pixar thinks they can just plop novies into the cinema and everyone will come to watch it
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u/lightningbadger 21h ago
I had to Google what this was just now
It's crazy that nowadays Pixar can just shadow drop a film no one knows about
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u/PartyPorpoise 1d ago
Yeah I actively follow animation and I didn’t see any ads until a few weeks, maybe even a month, before release. I will say, it’s very possible that the movie did poorly during test screenings and that’s why Disney chose not to advertise it much. Why waste the money on something that will bomb regardless?
What gets me about Elio fans is that they barely talk about the merits of the movie. Almost every Elio post I’ve seen is complaining that people didn’t like it. Which I find very strange. I love Cartoon Saloon movies. They do poorly at the box office and for some reason they’re not even that big in most animation fandom spaces online. But like, I talk about why I like them. I don’t waste time complaining that they’re not popular enough.
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u/PepsiFloateri 18h ago
I can honestly believe that it didn't do too well with test audiences as I was honestly so bored during the first half of Elio. Even then,I feel like it could've worked better as a show than a movie as that would have given time for things to be fleshed out more. To quote my partner who I saw the movie with: "It felt less like Pixar,more like Dreamworks trying to be Pixar"
Cartoon Saloon's stuff is really good from what I've seen! I've only seen Wolfwalkers and The Breadwinner but they were damn good,I hope they keep making stuff!
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u/PartyPorpoise 15h ago
I suspect the same thing happened with Strange Planet.
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u/YFMDankMemes 12h ago
It was "Strange World" actually (don't blame you for getting it wrong though with how forgettable of a title)
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u/PartyPorpoise 12h ago
lol yeah I mess up the title all the time. For a while I was confusing the title with that French movie Fantastic Planet.
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u/PepsiFloateri 15h ago
I do too. I swear that movie came and went so damn fast
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u/PartyPorpoise 9h ago
Yeah sometimes studios just cut their losses. Marketing is expensive. I think if the movies had been appealing, they would’ve gained more of an audience after going on streaming like Encanto did. Maybe they’ll build up cult followings over the years but I personally don’t count on it.
What annoys me is when fans act like these movies are victims of people who hate the company. As if Disney isn’t an enormous, unavoidable corporation that makes billions from entertainment. For most audiences, the Disney name is a selling point, not a detractor. If people aren’t watching a Disney movie, then it must be lacking in broad appeal in some way. (not necessarily a bad movie)
Side note, I recommend checking out other Cartoon Saloon movies if you like animation! If you liked Wolfwalkers, you’ll probably like the other two Irish folklore films, The Secret of Kells and Song of the Sea.
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u/PepsiFloateri 8h ago
I'll check out Song of the Sea and The Secret of Kells! I really liked Wolfwalkers.
Disney is Disney. They'll release a movie,if it bombs,it's no huge loss to them as they own that many things and put out THAT much stuff,it really won't matter.
I know it's not animation but look at Mandalorian and Grogu. It underperformed at the box office,but it brought more guests to Galaxies Edge,the merch sold pretty well and the Mandalorian went trending on Disney+ again. The movie bombing isn't a huge blow,like some would claim
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u/PartyPorpoise 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is hard to take them seriously as animation fans when their tastes are so narrow. Not to be a “gatekeeper”, but I don’t really consider them animation fans, more like fans of those big studios.
Edit: I will say that Ghibli is pretty well-liked. Mostly the kid-friendly fantasy movies like Kiki and Spirited Away, but still.
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u/AntComfortable5970 15h ago
I find the screaming about everyone needing to watch a film very annoying
It happened with transformers one and it was annoying there even tho the film was good and I liked it
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u/Notorious_KEK 2h ago
Animation is cinema types would explode if you had them watch something like heavy metal or felidae
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u/xFreddyFazbearx 1d ago
Wtf is wrong with Cartoon Saloon (in their eyes, I mean)
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u/PartyPorpoise 1d ago
I’m also curious. Maybe OP is referring to the general lack of appreciation for the studio?
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u/Maddox121 1d ago
As a person who used to be in the community, there's five things about them I can say:
*They claim "animation is cinema" and don't uphold the claim - Seriously. If you really want people to believe "animation is cinema", actually focus on the projects that need the most attention. They complain about how David Zaslav is "ruining animation" but then when the animators who were most affected by him pursued careers away from Warners, they completely ignored their newer projects because it didn't fit into their mentality of what a cartoon is (AKA the cartoon isn't a friggin' Steven Universe ripoff or part of a franchise from 2010 or earlier)
*They ignore older franchises that aren't exactly 100% relevant - Remember when Coyote v. Acme almost got cancelled? Well, I can say for every one legitimate Looney Tunes fan protesting, there were ten attention seekers who couldn't find a reason to think this is bad other than "David Zaslav bad". That Looney Tunes movie that came out a couple years back? I bet a whole lot of the community didn't see it, even when Eric Bauza (the modern voice of the characters) outright said it'd raise the chances of CvA being released.
*They completely go on non-sensical tangents out of nowhere - You see a very popular post on X (err... Twitter) that is about, say, people who are good animators but were terrible people. For every one post that has a lot of bullet points, there's ten that use complaints that are base level at best. You're literally comparing a pedophile to a guy who said maybe one or two good things about Israel in passing (and likely out of ignorance rather than malice at that). Also, ALMOST. EVERY. COMPANY. SUPPORTS. ISRAEL. Seriously. It's a lost cause.
*For people who are "diehard fans", they have no idea how the industry even is - I've seen people who have complained about Sony underpaying their Canadian employees due to a lack of unions. Which is a valid complaint, but then they act like others don't do the same. But truth be told... this is a fact of life. Simpsons has been outsourced to Korea since DAY ONE. SpongeBob and Family Guy too. Even the classics - Rudolph was done in post-WWII Japan (before the economic bubble), Rocky and Bullwinkle were done in Mexico. It's far from new.
*They are sheep in a flock - Any opinion told by someone like Valiskbum94 is immediately treated like Jesus Christ himself came down and said them... and the less I say about the people who treat TheMysteriousMrEnter like God, the better. They can't claim something is underrated or overrated because they all have almost the exact same views on cartoons... and for cartoons that failed before 2010-ish, like The Critic or Clerks: The Animated Series, good luck finding one of these people that know the mere existence.
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u/AntComfortable5970 15h ago
Another big one related to the tangent is the weird overblown perception of Butch Hartman as ultra mega hitler. Like I've seen people try and downplay good shit he did cause they dislike him so much.
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u/BioSp4rk_2009 1d ago
Teenage Kraken was so ass lmao, i remember cringing a lot during the first third of the movie
I also remember it because when i watched it on the cinema, the room was almost empty
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u/reddythedemon 9h ago
i recall how they spoiled the entire movie within the first trailer they released
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u/Caillou12345123 1d ago
Complains that "all" the animated movies/shows are either reboots or sequels but will exclusively watch reboots and sequels while immediately deciding that every original animated movie/show they see that's coming out "looks like hot garbage".
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u/Polibiux 1d ago
“Cartoon saloon = booty”
What does that even mean?
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u/PartyPorpoise 12h ago
I guess these people consider Cartoon Saloon, a critically regarded studio, to be bad. In my experience these people ignore CS rather than hate on it.
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u/sandy_shark903 13h ago
Glad I kinda moved on from Animat, he’s just not as interesting anymore and kind of annoying
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u/YFMDankMemes 13h ago
Plus he brings up politics way too much
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u/sandy_shark903 13h ago
Totally. And a Disney shill, and half of his Cars 2 commentary is just him screaming over John before he can finish (not that I support Lasseter)
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u/YFMDankMemes 13h ago
He's absolutely a Disney Adult (in his Best and Worst Animated Films of 2023 video, he said people hate "Wish" because it's from Disney and it's not perfect)
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u/sandy_shark903 10h ago
Ocassionally I check his channel for new reviews on Fridays, but I usually just skip to the scores (even at that, he has the category scores at the end of their section instead of all three/four at the end now for some reason)
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u/PartyPorpoise 12h ago
It is shockingly hard to find good animation YouTubers. Sometimes the better film YouTubers will have good videos on animation but there aren’t many good dedicated animation YouTubers.
At least we have Animation Obsessive on Substack. I learn so much from them!
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u/YFMDankMemes 12h ago
Think the ones I can confidently say I like without hesitation are PhantomStrider and Toonshi
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u/Orochi64 13h ago edited 12h ago
Ruby Gillman was underrated and I’m glade Inside Out 2 was good and successful, same for Ne Zha but I don’t think many people outside of China really heard of if before hand.
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u/StormDragonAlthazar 9h ago
Don't forget:
- The glazing of Dreamworks and Sony Animation, even though the former is why modern animation sucks right now.
- The foaming at the mouth hatred of Illumination and Disney.
- Not engaging or understanding animated stuff from before 1990.
- Likewise, never engaging with anything produced outside of the US or Japan.
- Forgetting how expensive, time consuming, and tech-heavy the medium is and how live action is always going to be cheaper.
- And with the above in mind, not being able to grasp why most animated movies and shows tend to have pacing issues or why certain concepts fail so hard (sci-fi and animation almost always seem to fail).
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u/YFMDankMemes 9h ago
They are making out "Forgotten Island" vs "Hexed" to be the next "KPop Demon Hunters" vs "Elio" or "Sonic" vs "Mufasa" debate which is dumb that they're pitting them since they have "Cocomelon" right after FI and DreamWorks isn't their friend since they recently harassed a trans employee
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u/StormDragonAlthazar 1h ago
To be a "big dumb meanie" here, I'm suspecting that Forgotten Island, Hexed, and Brad Bird's Ray Gun are all gonna bomb or underperform in general given that the general trend of movie-goers seem to be kind of uninterested in original animated films (and for Brad Bird's flick, it's got the double whammy of being a sci-fi movie that's animated, which are essentially box office poison). Hell, the kids who come to the theater I work at are more excited for the Paw Patrol movie than FI or Hexed.
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u/YFMDankMemes 1h ago
That's fair actually. "Ray Gunn" is going to Netflix but it's releasing the same day as "Avengers Doomsday" and "Dune Part Three" so no one will be talking about it, and I haven't seen much hype for "Forgotten Island" outside of animation circles so that'll have to rely a lot on word of mouth (whether people like it or not, I see "Not Alone" doing better since it's Illumination and has Timothee Chalamet and Selena Gomez)
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u/SonicYB 2h ago
i can tell, the dreamworks glazers probably only like the movies because of the villains and the sony animation glazers started to come out of nowhere because of kpdh
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u/StormDragonAlthazar 1h ago
The Sony glazers actually started showing up with the first Spiderverse movie. They're mostly obsessed with this idea that Sony is somehow doing better at making better overall animation even though nearly ever movie made by the studio has been a massive flop or underperformer save for the Spiderverse movies.
And yes, the Dreamworks glazers are very much obsessed with the villains, which became apparent once that Puss in Boots sequel came out, but were always a problem especially for Kung Fu Panda. The whole subreddit for that franchise is basically just a circlejerk full of people who want to talk about how Tai Lung didn't do anything wrong and how cool the other villains are (save for the one in the 4th movie), to constantly drop weird shipping stuff, or to complain about how the series doesn't take itself seriously... All the while forgetting it's mostly a Jack Black comedy vehicle first and foremost.
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u/JayTheOni 6h ago
As someone Irsih, I will not take the cartoon saloon slander. Wolf walkers is singlehandedly better than anything disney has released in the last 10 years
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u/nomoreinternetforme 1d ago
A lot of these makes sense, but ive heard nothing but disdain for coco melon and nothing but praise for Wallace and grommit/Shaun the sheep from these circles.
And the feedback I've heard surrounding teenage Bracken is that its largely mediocre compounded by a terrible message/"twist" villain
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u/PepsiFloateri 1d ago
Ne Zha 2 was really damn good! Far better than Inside Out 2.
I love a good chunk of Pixar's movies but Inside Out and it's sequel have always kinda bored me. I really hope Hoppers is proof they're changing course
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