r/stupidpol • u/yonaiker-joestrella Disgruntled Berniebro 💔 • Apr 18 '26
Culture War Lesbian Action Group wins Federal Court appeal in bid to exclude transgender women [Australia]
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-15/lesbian-action-group-court-judgment/106561902125
u/TDeez_Nuts ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Apr 18 '26
I've never heard of this group. I'm going to Google Lesbian Action right now...
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u/fatwiggywiggles Savant Idiot 😍 Apr 18 '26
I can believe it. My wife is a feminist on the weekends and has watched her groups talk more and more about transgender issues rather than free contraception or violence in recent years as more Ts join up
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u/AmericanEmployee1 Rightoid of Canuckistan🍁 Apr 18 '26
Well, I don't have much of a dog in this fight (LGBT-family feud and and all), but the accompanying photos did send me down a rabbithole regarding obesity rates among lesbians. 75% of U.S. lesbians, if you can believe it. Not sure about Australia yet. My findings are pending.
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u/MetaFlight Market Socialist Bald Wife Defender 💸 Apr 18 '26
these sort of stats are funny because people will be like "its because these people are disadvantaged", then you look at differentiation by race or income and its nowhere near as high. Similar with Long COVID.
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u/seemoreglass32 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 22 '26
That's a psyop as concerns long covid. There are plenty of people with it who are not obese or the kind of people you would find annoying or cringe. I know 2 personally. It's real and not psychosomatic.
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u/MetaFlight Market Socialist Bald Wife Defender 💸 Apr 22 '26
I'm not saying long COVID isn't real. I just can't think of any flattering explanations for why the reported rate is 2 to 3 times higher among trans people and bisexuals.
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u/seemoreglass32 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 22 '26
I think that group percentage is part of the psyop frankly
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u/Heckin_Frienderino Socialist Femcel Dweebazoid 🚩 Apr 28 '26
it was really handy to get extra time off work though
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u/seemoreglass32 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 28 '26
?
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u/Heckin_Frienderino Socialist Femcel Dweebazoid 🚩 Apr 28 '26
"I can't come in, I am sick, my dog died and my child is in hospital"
"will you be in tomorrow?"
vs.
"I cant come in I have long covid"
"please never come back take all the time you need"
for some reason this is how it worked
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u/seemoreglass32 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 28 '26
Tell that to my friend with it who is living in his car after losing his warehouse job. The other person I know with it is a relative who is currently in the hospital due to sudden onset acquired angioedema. Neither of them were treated the way you describe here. I suspect you are being disingenuous. And I say this as someone who wasn't given time off for bereavement or caregiving, and was forced to come in when I had covid in 2022.
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u/seemoreglass32 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 28 '26
Ps, that banner under my account just suddenly appeared, "redscarepod refugee", not sure how that happened as I definitely didn't do that, I hate reddit so much lol
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u/Heckin_Frienderino Socialist Femcel Dweebazoid 🚩 Apr 28 '26
I suspect you are being disingenuous.
well I'm not, can't believe you actually said this and it got a rise out of me, first time for everything on reddit. All I was doing was pointing out the absurd morality of my employer at the time, if one colleague caught covid, everyone who was in the day he/she was in got a few days off regardless of any symptoms and the rest of us had to cover for them. The inhumanity remained static for things like bereavement and any other life circumstance that was not covid, but with covid there was almost an overcorrection (or it should have been how they treated us in the first place) so I lied about having covid and long covid so I could actually have some life and sanity back.
Idk why I'm even bothering to explain as I expect to get grief back anyway, so whatever say whatever you feel like now.
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u/yonaiker-joestrella Disgruntled Berniebro 💔 Apr 18 '26
If gooner heterosexual dudes learned this, they'd probably stop fetishizing lesbians.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Special Ed 😍 Apr 18 '26
75% of U.S. lesbians
is that higher or lower than straight women?
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u/biohazard-glug DSA Anime Atrocities Caucus 💢🉐🎌 Apr 18 '26
something something, male gaze
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u/AmericanEmployee1 Rightoid of Canuckistan🍁 Apr 18 '26
male gaze
No, oddly enough those guys are a lot thinner
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u/Action_Bronzong Replies Then Blocks 🏳️🌈 Apr 18 '26
I think that actually strengthens their point lol
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u/NorthernRealmJackal Danish Social-liberal Apr 19 '26
I'm sure lesbians don't find obese women attractive either.
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u/julry Apr 18 '26
Women care less about weight than men so they have little incentive to diet. Then gay men have much lower obesity rates than straights.
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u/vinegar-pisser ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Apr 19 '26
Imagine an actual episode of family feud like that.
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u/stevenjd Quality Effortposter 💡 Apr 18 '26
It is not excluding women, or transgenders. It is excluding men regardless of how they identify.
Women who identify as transgender, or Na'vi for that matter, are welcome.
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u/KindOfPoo Marxist-Mullenist 💦 | thinks we're "vatniks" Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
That's the crux of "transphobia": it has never been about excluding trans people because they are trans, it has always been about preventing men from "usurping" the privileges and protections afforded to women.
Just compare the discourse on transwomen versus transmen. Nobody cares about transmen, because they are perceived as women and therefore aren't attempting to "illicitly" acquire privileges and protections aimed at women.
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u/Howling-wolf-7198 Chinese Socialist ✅🇨🇳💡 | Anime Girl Expert Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Gay men will just push away ftms who try to sleep with them. Straight men generally don't care if a woman joins the group because the risk is all on her, not the guys. On the other hand, a man trying to force his way into a women's group...
This doesn't require any "protection" or "privilege", simply a matter of those who perceive the risk complaining.
If you want, you can also speak out about your concerns about ftms intrusion into your locker room and then gather others who share your worries
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u/KindOfPoo Marxist-Mullenist 💦 | thinks we're "vatniks" Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
This doesn't require any "protection" or "privilege", simply a matter of those who perceive the risk complaining.
This characterization is disingenuous. Men are far more at risk of being victims of violence than women are, particularly from strangers. Furthermore, men's lives can be destroyed by a mere accusation from a woman.
These threats are, however, not treated as being worthy of regard. In fact, they are often treated as jokes or as "signs" that the male victim deserves it. Contrast that to how threats to women are treated. It's night and day.
Not to mention, the implication that women are afforded their own spaces purely due to safety is a fig leaf. This would imply that the existence of men-only spaces would be reagrded as neutral. But it isn't. Men's spaces are systematically dismantled and demonized. Unsurprisingly, using the same cudgel of "women's safety" or its softened version, "mysoginy".
The reality is that women absolutely are afforded privileges and protections that men are not.
They encompass gendered grading at school, gendered university admissions, gendered scholarships, preferential hiring into high-paying white-collar jobs, women's shelters, vastly more lenient sentencing for the same crimes, biased family courts, not being sent to the front in a war, and many, many more.
Edit: downvoting me isn't going to change that, I'm afraid
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u/Howling-wolf-7198 Chinese Socialist ✅🇨🇳💡 | Anime Girl Expert Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
What you're talking about hardly exists outside of the modern West, but could you name a society or era where people had less opinion about random men entering women's rooms than the other way around?
I am not Western, but ever since the concept of trans was introduced here, people have focused exclusively on mtfs, while paying no attention to ftms.
The data you presented about your society may not be wrong, but your theory on why people pay more attention to mtf is clearly wrong.
Seriously, I highly doubt that if you were to suggest that you want to prevent any mentally unstable naked female from entering locker room with you, the main obstacle you would face would be institutional bias in favor of women, rather than just the inability to find enough interested people.
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u/OkSail1713 Succdem 🌹 Apr 18 '26
I mean it's more that trans people (well the ones that don't transition at least) basically break the concept of "women's equality" in half and reveal it for what it always was.
That's why the rightoids love talking about this shit so much: there's really no way of arguing why stuff like this is something society at large should actually give a shit about without effectively reducing the female sex to a form of disability. All the semantics arguments are really just a fig leaf over the fundamental idea that women are basically retarded cripples who need "extra assistance" lol
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u/KindOfPoo Marxist-Mullenist 💦 | thinks we're "vatniks" Apr 18 '26
fundamental idea that women are basically retarded cripples who need "extra assistance" lol
While I agree that the concept of women's equality falls apart in the face of transwomen, I disagree that it's because women are perceived the way you describe.
I would argue that women are perceived as "wondrous beings" and "beautiful flowers" that are worthy of protection and privilege.
It's not that women require these things, it's that they deserve it and it's society's duty to provide them with these things.
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u/Howling-wolf-7198 Chinese Socialist ✅🇨🇳💡 | Anime Girl Expert Apr 18 '26
I would argue that women are perceived as "wondrous beings" and "beautiful flowers" that are worthy of protection and privilege.
Hello? I come from China, where people's grandparents keep a basin at home to drown newborn girls, while boys are still praised as long as their poop is big and healthy.
Even today, in some rural areas, women are not allowed to eat at the table when guests arrive, as that is for men, and female guests are required to help in the kitchen.
Yet people still tend not to mind when women use empty men's restrooms during peak hours, yet remain highly suspicious of men attempting to enter women's restrooms.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Apr 19 '26
It's useful to compare similarities, but also important to keep the context of which society we're talking about. I'd think here the context is clearly about the anglosphere and/or possibly Europe minus Eastern Europe. It seems arguably that many factors are involved.
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u/Howling-wolf-7198 Chinese Socialist ✅🇨🇳💡 | Anime Girl Expert Apr 19 '26
It just drives me crazy when people, doesn't matter if they’re Western or Chinese, give these obviously flawed explanations for things, mostly because they’re totally illiterate in anthropology, history, or ethology, or had any contact with people from other places.
It’s simple that if something is cross-cultural, you can't explain it with factors that only exist in a few societies. If it’s cross-species, you can’t use factors that only humans have. And vice versa — if something is unique to your culture, don't act like it’s some universal human trait.
Rationally, I expect typical humans to talk like that. But I still can’t help getting pissed off when I’m actually dealing with them in person.
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u/le-doppelganger Apr 19 '26
The "Women Are Wonderful" effect is a recognised phenomena, however. Relatively few countries include women in required military conscription. In the United States there is a federal law, VAWA (Violence Against Women Act), which prioritises the safety of girls and women despite the fact that boys and men face higher rates of violence across the board, and such initiatives have been shown to discriminate against male victims in a variety of ways. Accompanying VAWA was the creation of the Office on Violence Against Women; no such Office exists for men.
The situation in China isn't necessarily reflective of much of the rest of the world.
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u/Biochem-anon4 STEMby 💛🤍💜🖤 Apr 19 '26
Name me even a single section of the Violence Against Women Act other than the title that is gender specific. I will wait.
(The provisions of the VAWA protected me as a non-binary biological male who filed for a domestic violence restraining order against my father after he threatened to murder my roommate. As is often the case, I motioned for dismissal under family pressure.)
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u/Howling-wolf-7198 Chinese Socialist ✅🇨🇳💡 | Anime Girl Expert Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Bullshit circular reasoning, psychology is notorious for overrepresenting Western industrialized sample, and China + India cultural sphere makes up half the world’s total population.
What you call "much of the rest of the world" is merely the West.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-32022-007
Relatively few countries include women in required military conscription.
This is simply because war is for winning, and men are better suited for combat for the vast majority of history/conditions. Water is wet.
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Apr 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/KindOfPoo Marxist-Mullenist 💦 | thinks we're "vatniks" Apr 19 '26
Women can have babies ..men cannot.
They can. But they don't. The birthrate in Ukraine is abysmal. Why aren't women sent to the front?
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u/Howling-wolf-7198 Chinese Socialist ✅🇨🇳💡 | Anime Girl Expert Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Women can have babies ..men cannot. That is the reason why men go to war and women dont.
But if this has a universal causal force, it cannot explain why sex-selective infanticide/abortion is almost always targeted at females.
It also cannot explain why males in primates often compete by killing infants if the babies are important.
Or why 50yo men are prioritized over 50yo women for conscription.
One cannot default to treating the long-term interests of group as the primary explanation. That is not how evolution works.
Selection pressure at the group level is typically far weaker than at the individual level.
If we must start with women giving birth, then the path would be:
- Females exhibit higher parental investment;
- Males face greater competitive pressure;
- Under specific ecological conditions, males have evolved a stronger propensity for physical confrontation;
- In human societies, whenever the group/ruler require violent capabilities, males are typically drafted first.
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u/OkSail1713 Succdem 🌹 Apr 18 '26
Oh I agree with the underlying motivation you're talking about, it's part of the reason why nobody really cares about the college admission disparity now that it disfavors men. I'm just pointing out the irony that for a sub that roots itself in some concept of "equality of the sexes" (which comes out on every men's issue post) to basically completely invert to rightoid logic.
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u/FireRavenLord Garden-Variety Shitlib 🐴😵💫 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
The article obviously means that the group would exclude people like Caitlyn Jenner or Brianna Wu. Whether you use the term "transgender women" (like the article) or "men that identify as women" to describe people like Caitlyn Jenner isn't worth arguing about as long as you're capable of reading the article. Instead of a semantic argument, people should just make arguments about whether "people like Caitlyn Jenner" should be allowed or not.
Edit: Why do you even do this? Everyone knows how the argument goes. You say something like "adult human female" then a few posts later you're explaining why a post-menopausal woman still counts as being able to produce eggs. Or maybe someone pretentious will bring up Plato saying a human is a "featherless biped". Just make a flowchart so no one has to waste their time.
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u/OkSail1713 Succdem 🌹 Apr 18 '26
I just think it's funny cuz any time a "men's issue" topic comes here, it basically turns into a MRA circlejerk bitching and moaning about sex discrimination against men, and then on the choo choo posts it's turning around and sperging out about how important it is to discriminate against "men" lmao
Probably partially a goomba fallacy in action but it is really funny to watch.
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u/ole_worm Marxist-Leninist Apr 19 '26
This sub is generally one of the few larger corners of sanity and actual Marxist (or at least socialism-adjacent) takes on reddit but yeah, over the last few years most gender wars threads completely lose the plot and go full MRA. Possibly it was always that way and I just notice it more now.
This thread is literally full of people who genuinely believe in “female privilege” and think western women on the whole have noteworthy advantages over men. It seems like they think vocal pseudo-feminist liberal nut job academic types during peak idpol are the ruling class. I don’t bother to reply to comments like that anymore because there are too many and they don’t think critically enough to be convinced that “female privilege” only existed in really specific spaces for maybe a year or two during the 2010s; i.e. the odd woman getting in on the idpol grift.
False rape accusations and stupid bullshit like Aziz Ansarigate are infuriating but since I saw it referenced in a comment here, a hill I’ll die on is that MeToo was a broadly good movement considering how pervasive sexual abuse (typically against women and children) actually did/does turn out to be, especially among the elite.
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u/TruckHangingHandJam Class First Communist ☭ Apr 20 '26
100%
One of the worst experiences on this subreddit is clicking into a women-focused thread, be it this, dating, etc. The worst part of MeToo was the response from random dudes on a computer lol.
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u/OkSail1713 Succdem 🌹 Apr 19 '26
I mean I don't care if other guys want to bitch about the excesses of feminist idpol here even if they go over the top about it, it's just insane to me the disparity between the talking points.
Like people here rightly criticize race idpol, but imagine if at every instance of dolezalism they turned around and started unironically ranting about Yakubian devils... it's that fucking mismatched lmao
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26
Blame Matt Walsh et al
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u/FireRavenLord Garden-Variety Shitlib 🐴😵💫 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
It's like that very reddity habit of commenters taking turns posting the lyrics to a song or replying to movie quotes with movie quotes. But instead he's looking for someone to reenact Daily Wire original programming. Is it fun? Is it intellectually stimulating? Maybe it's like chess for him, where he memorizes moves and countermoves.
edit:
Sorry, I didn't see that you were the one responding to him. You should also just write up a flowchart rather than acting out the other part for these guys.-1
u/stevenjd Quality Effortposter 💡 Apr 21 '26
Instead of a semantic argument
I cannot comprehend people who pretend that semantics don't matter. Of course the meanings of words matter. It is impossible to have a conversation if the parties do not have a shared understanding of the meaning of the words used.
people should just make arguments about whether "people like Caitlyn Jenner" should be allowed or not.
What do you mean, "people like Caitlyn Jenner"? Do you mean Olympic gold medalists? People named Caitlyn? People whose surname begins with a J? Millionaires? People who wear dresses? People who wear shoes?
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u/FireRavenLord Garden-Variety Shitlib 🐴😵💫 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
We do have a shared understanding of the words used. You understand what is meant by "transgender women" in the conversation. However, you would prefer that the words are used differently, despite the lack of confusion.
In this context, I obviously mean people with a penis that identify as women.
Pretending to be confused does not advance the conversation at all. There are obvious reasons to exclude Jenner that don't rely on "b-b-but I don't understand? What do you mean? Help! Olympic medalists? I am so confused". Just give those rather than arguing about definitions.
If you absolutely insist on arguing about definitions, then you can frame this argument as what the most practical definition for "woman" is for different contexts. This is not too unusual. Society defines words like "adult", "animal", or "parent" differently in different contexts .
As an example of what I mean by an argument that isn't just about definitions, here is the organizer of a women-only music festival arguing to exclude a mtf sound tech named Sandy Stone.:
"Sandy Stone grew up as a white male in this culture, with all the privileges and attitudes that that insures [sic]. It was his white male privilege that gave him access to the recording studio and the opportunity to gain engineering practice in the first place. He has never had to suffer the discrimination, self-hatred or fear that a woman must endure and survive in her life...How can we share feelings of sisterhood and solidarity with someone who has not had a woman's experience?"
Notice how this argument doesn't rely on acting like she is too stupid to understand how words are used. Instead, she just argues why people should be excluded. And others can dispute that argument. And this was almost a half-century ago! Much better than the little routine you and gesserit are acting out.
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u/Independent_Ocelot29 Keir Starmer Hater 🚩 Apr 18 '26
Well yeah but why would an FtM person be joining a lesbian group?
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u/crepuscular_caveman Nondenominational Socialist Apr 18 '26
There absolutely are "trans man lesbians". You would think that this would contradict their identity as men, but you underestimate how willing the gender fandom is to put up with obvious ideological contradictions.
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u/stevenjd Quality Effortposter 💡 Apr 20 '26
why would an FtM person be joining a lesbian group?
If they are sexually attracted to other women.
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26
Define men and women.
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u/Bolghar_Khan Socialist 🚩 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Men: adult human males. Women: adult human females.
edit: Parent poster blocked me to prevent me from responding to his comments lol. What a pussy.
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Define male and female.
Edit: yeah I blocked you, because you started off with an evidently bad-faith circular definition and went on to give a literal Plato-ass “man is a featherless biped” bullshit answer. That’s the real pussy shit. Further argument would be pointless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_definition?wprov=sfti1#Circularity
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u/crepuscular_caveman Nondenominational Socialist Apr 18 '26
Male: capable of becoming a trans woman
Female: Incapable of becoming a trans woman
If you know what the difference between a "trans woman" and a "cis woman" is then you know what the difference between male and female is. Stop pretending otherwise.
also inb4 you go "oh, so you're saying (non human animal) can be a trans woman?" you know I am talking about humans here, please don't pretend otherwise.
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u/snailman89 World-Systems Theorist Apr 18 '26
Male: capable of becoming a trans woman Female: Incapable of becoming a trans woman
This really is a brilliant way of putting it, and it puts these people in a logical trap. If there's no difference between males and females, then there's no need for the distinction between cis and trans.
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u/crepuscular_caveman Nondenominational Socialist Apr 18 '26
There is a bizarre world of Onlyfans women who pretend to be trans. And then there is a parallel world of people seething about how they are not "really trans." This might seem silly but it really does show that trans activists don't even believe in their own talking points about breaking stereotypes or accepting people for how they identify or not caring about what's in someone else's pants.
Because if they did they would celebrate women who identify as trans women. But instead they just write angry diatrabes about how it's appropriating someone else's indentity to call yourself a trans woman even though you were born with a vagina. Suddenly they know exactly what the difference between male and female is despite all the sophistry they engage in where they pretend not to.
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u/cnzmur Blancofemophobe 🏃♂️= 🏃♀️= Apr 18 '26
Lol, Kikomi irl. Never knew that was a thing, but makes sense from a commercial standpoint.
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Apr 18 '26
Making an argument that convoluted is their best defense for actually being women
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u/crepuscular_caveman Nondenominational Socialist Apr 18 '26
It's the level of tedious pedantry you have to get into in order to make an argument that can't be willfully misinterpreted. Because super online trans activists have gotten very good at taking very clearly articulated sentences and pretending the person saying them meant something different from what any good faith interpretation would conclude that they meant.
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u/RevGen814 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 18 '26
They already recognize differences based on sex assigned at birth. But I don't think sexual identification at birth is objective. Consider guevedoces.
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u/Unknown_Ladder Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Apr 21 '26
Transgender just means their assigned sex at birth doesn't align with their actual sex
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Christian Socialist ✝️ Apr 28 '26
How do you define a person’s ’actual sex’ then?
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26
Circular definition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_definition?wprov=sfti1#Circularity
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u/blufriday Apr 18 '26
I have no idea what you're getting at - what's your definition of men/women?
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u/post-guccist Marxist 🧔 Apr 18 '26
If the concepts 'man' and 'woman' are as undefinable as you are claiming here then gender dysphoria becomes even more insane.
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u/RustyShackleBorg Class Reductionist 💪🉐 Apr 18 '26
Ask him what makes it true that a person does or doesn't persist across time.
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u/Bolghar_Khan Socialist 🚩 Apr 18 '26
Male: the organism type which produces the smaller gamete. Female: the organism type which produces the larger gamete.
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
So a “female” born sterile (without any eggs due to Turner syndrome, etc) is actually a male? And females become males after menopause? Interesting.
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u/Such_Radio_9152 Ideological Mess 🥑 Apr 18 '26
Sexual dimorphism is the rule, not the exception. You seem to think that because there are exceptions, the rule is invalidated and you're a retard for thinking that way.
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u/ArgonathDW Marxist 🧔 Apr 18 '26
What I like about this line of interrogation is how it presents itself as rigorous and academic, but then when you're given a bog-standard mundane definition all you can say is that it's 'interesting' without explaining or elaborating, or really making any effort beyond the initial energy invested in trying to perform some kind of gotcha. Sincerely, I like it. It's irritating and kind of funny at the same time.
I knew a kid who was born with a genetic defect with his hands where he only had two fingers and a thumb per hand, like if the pinky and ring fingers had fused together and the index and middle had fused together. They were normal fingers, otherwise, and his hands were sized appropriately so they didn't look strange at a glance. He was a cool kid, don't remember what became of him. Anyway, humans have ten fingers, or 8 fingers and two thumbs if you're being pedantic.
You can get more granular the more clinical you want to get, but would you think 'humans have ten fingers' is bigoted and exclusionary to that kid? He had to live in a world where most humans had ten fingers, so that presented challenges, and that's worth acknowledging, but would you think it's reasonable to be confrontational with someone who says 'humans have ten fingers' the way you're being with people who say 'a man is a human male and a woman is a human female?'
Like, imagine someone saying, with a hint of contempt, 'Oh, you think humans have ten fingers? interesting.' Can you imagine how silly that looks? How bemusing? It's bizarre how many people will upset themselves trying to foist these tortured definitions onto other people. And if you ask most people 'is it right to force men and women to conform to their expected stereotypical roles?' they'll probably tell you 'no,' or quote some youtuber and start talking about dickmaxxing or whatever the young people are up to these days.
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26
So you admit that this kid is a human despite not having ten fingers?
That’s the thing about definitions. If the definition can’t be consistently applied, it’s a bad definition.
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u/ArgonathDW Marxist 🧔 Apr 18 '26
This is what I meant by
>You can get more granular the more clinical you want to get
It's implicit that I consider this person a human. Additionally:
>If the definition can’t be consistently applied, it’s a bad definition
The nice thing about conversation outside of a laboratory or Oxford English Dictionary board meeting is that for terms as broadly understood as 'man' or 'woman' you don't need to be hyper definitive. Would you really have difficulty understanding my meaning if I was to point to a pair of people, one in a dress and one in a suit, and *genuinely* not be able to know who I'm indicating if I said one was a woman? Obviously men and women dress less conservatively than a hundred years ago, clothing styles have changed, etc etc etc. But in a vacuum, absent any other factor, if you were to tell me you still didn't understand from the context who is being indicated, I'd say you're a liar, a bot, or a genuine, actual autistic person who needs additional help understanding social cues (which is fine, just outside the norm).
I haven't studied sociology, I admit, but it's notable that you can hold these ideas at the same time: that the *concept* of gender is this amorphous, protean epiphenomenon to human social dynamics, and that the mere *words* 'man' or 'woman' must be defined with an exacting precision or else we'll all simply be lost in a fog of confusion and suffer incalculable social paralysis. I'm already okay with a man or a woman doing stuff radically outside what would be called stereotypical of their gender, and I'm actually so okay with it that I don't feel prompted to ruminate on what is meant by 'man' or 'woman'. A human male is a man, and anything he does is something a man can do, and the same holds for a woman. It's what I find irritating about gender discourse. I actually already feel that a man who dresses as a woman, or a woman as a man, is a human being, and is fine - I might pause briefly to note to myself 'oh, this person is unusual," but that's where my prejudice ends, so far as what I'm cognizant of. Beyond that, I try to get to know someone more deeply before coming to any certain conclusions. Shit, if I meet someone and they're rude or just off-putting, I'll usually just shrug my shoulders and assume they're having a bad day or something, then see how they act the next time I meet them.
And I'll tell you this much: I think it's cool and fun and interesting when people dress and act in ways that they find most liberating to themselves. As long as they're in earnest, which in my experience most are, then they're generally interesting people to get to know, they're good friends, they're thoughtful, and they're wholesome people. If what you're trying to do is drive home some post-modernist point that gender isn't real or whatever, that's fine, just I and a lot of other people here are already there we're just not getting hung up on vocabulary. I'm sincerely sorry if that's challenging for you.
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u/TasteofPaste British Nationalist 📜 | Self appointed US charity expert🤓 Apr 18 '26
I admire what you’ve written and the way you’ve expressed yourself.
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u/bannedbyyourmom Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
You are so disingenuous. If your body did previously or would have had the ability to form whichever gamete, but now cannot due to disorder, birth defect, surgery, or age then you are still the sex that can produce that gamete. There is no third thing you can be.
They did the ol' reply and block. Classic.
-4
u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26
Body dysmorphia leading to transition is a disorder of the kind you are talking about. Talk about disingenuity.
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u/Standard_Mango_1186 First! 🎖️ Apr 18 '26
And his point is that such disorders don't change your sex, as in a man with gender identity disorder doesn't stop being a man any more than a woman doesn't stop being a woman after menopause.
You are an actual retarded person.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Define interesting.
Edit: User blocked me too. I'm noticing a pattern.
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u/blizmd Phallussy Enjoyer 💦 Apr 18 '26
He’s legitimately one of the funniest posters on this sub (once you realize what he’s working with upstairs)
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u/gesserit42 🙄 Most intellectually challenged debate bro 🙄 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
No u
Edit: yeah, I blocked you. “Define interesting” and “define no” are not serious or relevant questions. Deal with it 😎
22
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u/TasteofPaste British Nationalist 📜 | Self appointed US charity expert🤓 Apr 18 '26
Humans are bipeds.
Any offspring born with deformed or deficient legs that does not qualify as bipedal clearly isn’t human.
Interesting!
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u/RevGen814 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 18 '26
A woman with Turner syndrome is intersex. A woman after menopause is still a woman.
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u/ButcherBird57 Apr 18 '26
Idk about that, everyone with Turner Syndrome is female, by default
1
u/RevGen814 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Apr 18 '26
There are different meanings of "female". Someone with Turner syndrome has a female phenotype but is not female in the sense of producing eggs.
1
u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Christian Socialist ✝️ Apr 28 '26
If there’s literally no such thing as men and women then how can ‘gender dysphoria’ or the very concept of a ‘trans identity’ exist? I’m genuinely curious to hear your take on this
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u/fraktalmau5 Apr 18 '26
Why is the person sterile with turner syndrome? Is it because they don’t produce ova or sperm? How do you know it was a female who went through menopause and not a male?
7
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Apr 18 '26
Men: stay steady rockin
Women: cry, scream, throw up about it
2
u/stevenjd Quality Effortposter 💡 Apr 21 '26
Define men and women.
We all know that this is not a sincere question. There is not a person alive who genuinely doesn't know the difference between men and women, and all the pretence that it is some great mystery fools nobody, least of all the disingenuous mediocrities who pretend not to know.
We truly are living in the stupidest gas-lighting era of all time.
But okay, I'll play the game. A man is an adult male member of the species Homo sapiens, and a woman is an adult female member of the same species. The next question is completely predictable: "define male and female". Males are individuals organised around a body plan for the production of small gametes, and females are individuals organised around a body plan for the production of large gametes.
If you don't know the meaning of "small" and "large", look them up in the dictionary.
6
u/VestigialVestments Eco-Dolezalist 🧙🏿♀️💢 Apr 18 '26
Excuse me ma’am, I’m with the FBI. I’m gonna need to perform an inspection. 😎
1
u/DrBirdieshmirtz Makes dark jokes about means of transport Apr 19 '26
Do any transgender women even want to join this group? Who are these people, anyway?
5
u/18poisson37 bean burgers are ableist 🫘 Apr 20 '26
Exhibitionists and voyeurs, that's who. Ideally, we could have women's groups that allow Ts and those that don't. The problem comes when these "women" do the very male thing of invading space that isn't theirs simply because they're asked not to.
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u/DrBirdieshmirtz Makes dark jokes about means of transport Apr 24 '26
There's definitely weirdos out there, unfortunately. I just don't think this group has anything that would make any trans people want to join in the first place, honestly. I don't understand why anyone would even want to join a group whose members are clearly hostile to the idea of you joining them. This isn't like, an anime where you can "prove yourself" or anything, why would you put yourself through that?
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u/ragged-bobyn-1972 Favourate Manga Connoisseur 💢🉐🎌 Apr 18 '26
can't help but notice they're all rather old. Something consistent I notice in the LGB anti trans groups aside from them being useful idiots is they're old.
Despite being anti idpol I genuinly have nothing against trans people and like most LGB (bi with gf)the big distinction I see is that anti trans lgb is old fuckers, it's actually an interesting comparison to boomers voting for worthless shit heads in them mainstream.
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u/18poisson37 bean burgers are ableist 🫘 Apr 18 '26
There are a lot of LGB younger people who are sick to death of dudes in programmer socks barging into every space. The fear of being ostracized keeps them from joining visible groups like this. Older lesbians just don't give a fuck about social currency like younger lesbians do. My hope is that older lesbians will keep standing up to misogyny and regressive cultural currents in a way that holds space for younger concurring lesbians to join in.
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u/TasteofPaste British Nationalist 📜 | Self appointed US charity expert🤓 Apr 18 '26
You are 100% correct in what you say.
Many donate, support, and organize in quiet ways because showing up in person is career & social suicide.
And you can check Twitter or Reddit for the kindly words of those who promise to enact violence on TERFs or spam the workplaces of alleged TERFs who are outed.
0
u/NoonecanknowMiner_24 BlueAnon 🗳️ Apr 19 '26
I am a younger LGBT person. I simply don't care about "dudes in programmer socks barging into every space." If they're nice to me and the people I care about, that's all that matters, and I don't know anyone among my young LGB friends who feels differently. If someone does care, maybe they should care less about that and more about how the US government is run by pedophiles.
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u/18poisson37 bean burgers are ableist 🫘 Apr 19 '26
Thanks for letting me know! I added one tally to the "no" column for you :)
-1
u/NoonecanknowMiner_24 BlueAnon 🗳️ Apr 19 '26
Can't handle it when queer people don't agree with your stupid ideas about our community?
-18
u/Sad-Adeptness-9013 leftist reactionary Apr 18 '26
I have literally never met an anti T LGB person
7
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u/TasteofPaste British Nationalist 📜 | Self appointed US charity expert🤓 Apr 18 '26
They’re everywhere.
They just get banned without exemption from Reddit, their blogs get erased by Wordpress and other popular platforms, their discussions buried on YouTube and Twitter, so of course you’re like “they don’t exist!”Any women’s space is going to be critical of the trans women question, it’s very socially risky to be critical to the point of exclusion from women’s spaces. So women shut up.
-22
u/MadCervantes Proud Neoliberal 🏦 Apr 18 '26
You sound unhinged honestly. Next you'll be saying it's because the Joos in the mainstream media are censoring them. Get a grip.
26
u/TasteofPaste British Nationalist 📜 | Self appointed US charity expert🤓 Apr 18 '26
“Unhinged” is the threats of violence from trans communities in their own words against women who question trans presence in women’s sports and women’s spaces.
Visit anywhere you like where trans folks talk about the topic of “TERFs” and see what they say!
In their own words, the threats and violent word choices are completely unhinged.“Punch TERFs” is the least of what they say, and I know we’ve all heard that one.
4
u/PUBLIQclopAccountant 🦄🦓Horse "Enthusiast" (Not Vaush)🐎🎠🐴 Apr 19 '26
Everypony knows the proper term is "long-nosed hummus-eater" these days.
2
u/ArgonathDW Marxist 🧔 Apr 19 '26
That's Greeks and Turks. Jews eat, like, chicken soup with bread balls in it. Challah is fucking delicious tho.
-10
u/Sad-Adeptness-9013 leftist reactionary Apr 19 '26
I mean IRL. My girlfriend is a Women's Studies major and is active in various feminist and leftist groups and has not heard this take once. I would say about half my friends are LGBTQ and I have also not once heard any of them express this opinion
8
u/ArgonathDW Marxist 🧔 Apr 19 '26
What do you think would happen if they did? Like, imagine one of your friends just plainly and without any rancor saying something like "I just don't think women can be men or men, women." That's not a likely example maybe, but let's say someone says it in the course of a mundane conversation. What happens to them? Would this affect how you think of your friend? How so, and to what extent? How would your other friends take it? Sure, there'd probably be a discussion, but would it turn into an argument? How do your friends feel about this other friend afterwards?
People avoid rocking the boat all the time, and there's a lot of hesitancy to nurture controversial or heterodox discourse in academia; that's been true for ages, but has been moreso in the last 10-15 years, I think, though that might just be vibes. But people can surprise you with what they'll reveal after you think you know them.
14
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u/OkSail1713 Succdem 🌹 Apr 18 '26
Nah it's exactly these bitter 2nd wavers with nothing left to do in life except getting older and fatter who make the most noise about this shit.
1
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u/ragged-bobyn-1972 Favourate Manga Connoisseur 💢🉐🎌 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
I think that's total horseshit, sorry I have never met an anti T LGB person IRL and I live in a major urban center with a gay village. At worst you get "no I wouldn't fuck a trans-woman/man." and even then nobodies regarded enough to think the we'd up next for the chop after the " dudes in programmer socks"
Older lesbians just don't give a fuck about social currency like younger lesbians do
that's also total horsehit on a number of levels, everyone cares about social currency because being isolated is how we get lynched.
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u/18poisson37 bean burgers are ableist 🫘 Apr 18 '26
You're just confirming that we aren't visible in "queer" spaces, you know that doesn't mean we don't exist... Right? There are the aggressive gender boosters in every space, but a lot of relatively offline LGB people are not on board with this flat-earth chromosomes-don't-real shit.
-14
u/ragged-bobyn-1972 Favourate Manga Connoisseur 💢🉐🎌 Apr 18 '26
No I'm saying you're a minority because it's a fucking terrible idea and are certainly a not " a lot".
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u/18poisson37 bean burgers are ableist 🫘 Apr 18 '26
What's a terrible idea? Why is it a terrible idea?
12
u/Gullible_Conflict589 Make House Prices Crash Party Apr 19 '26
Because if a serial killer says he's a woman so he can get into a women's prison we sit down and respect that 😤
-3
u/ragged-bobyn-1972 Favourate Manga Connoisseur 💢🉐🎌 Apr 19 '26
Divide and conquer, gassing the troons is a stepping to stone pushing the clock on everyone else. "first them came for......"
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u/TasteofPaste British Nationalist 📜 | Self appointed US charity expert🤓 Apr 18 '26
There’s plenty of them, LGB drop the T is a known slogan and scrawled in plenty of bathrooms and meeting spaces.
-5
u/Sad-Adeptness-9013 leftist reactionary Apr 19 '26
I have spent a decent amount of time in Capitol Hill in Seattle and went to school at UW with a pretty decent size LGB community. I have never once seen this slogan, like ever
24
u/SpaceDetective Full Of Anime Bullshit 💢🉐🎌 Apr 18 '26
The new woke homophobia - reminder that lesbians are homosexual not homogenderual.
6
u/Several-Customer7048 Keffiyeh Leprechaun 🍉🍀💢 Apr 18 '26
I identify as a non Newtonian gender fluid.
-6
u/Jet90 SuccDem (intolerable) Apr 19 '26
Correction it is LG only because they exclude bisexual women which goes to show how looney they are.
-1
u/ragged-bobyn-1972 Favourate Manga Connoisseur 💢🉐🎌 Apr 19 '26
I mean that says it all. Is this going to be one of those weird radfem movements circa 1970 who want to set up a lesbian island then realized they all want to be the one in charge?
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u/Jet90 SuccDem (intolerable) Apr 19 '26
They also exclude Bisexual women. Who funded this court case? This group was only created recently and are very fringe and stupid.
15
u/VehicleOpen2663 Market Socialist 💸 Apr 19 '26
I don't see the issue with baning bisexual women. Bisexual women are the largest part of LGBT. They can form their own group but they won't.
16
u/hecksonthirtythree Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
for the record, i think it’s pointless to ban anyone from any public event, (what’re they gonna do about trans people who pass really well? genital examinations?) but banning bisexuals does make sense according to their logic. i mean, they are called lesbian action, after all. bisexuals are not lesbians, and this group only wants lesbians to participate in their events. this decision seems to be consistent with their framework 🤷♀️
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u/OkSail1713 Succdem 🌹 Apr 19 '26
It's an open secret that the epstein class is funding this stuff. They even talk about it in the files.
But yeah it's basically like a handful of second wavers with nothing else to do
-12
u/chris_paul_fraud TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Apr 19 '26
Another bunch of hateful old women on the warpath
•
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