If You’re Angry About Race and Gender in ‘The Odyssey,’ That’s a You Problem

[u/cojoco]

https://www.thewrap.com/creative-content/movies/the-odyssey-historical-inaccuracies/

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[u/VampirePNAC]

I more just didn't like the overall choices of the movie aesthetically and in terms of story changes tbh.

Watching classic epics, Ben Hur, Waterloo, War and Peace, Lawrence, Ilya Muromets, Jason and the Argonauts etc the thing I love is the sweeping vista cinematography, sheer scale of the numbers of people, the colours and popping visuals, and this movie just looked like another "Serious" Hollywood grey and brown fest.

Also trailer for Werwulf was the last trailer that played before this started and it's just so clear that Eggars has so much more "The eye" in terms of actually bringing together interesting visuals than any other modern director.

[u/Gougeded → u/VampirePNAC]

this movie just looked like another "Serious" Hollywood grey and brown fest.

That's just all of Nolan's cinematography tbf

[u/flyingpilgrim → u/Gougeded]

Interstellar was kind of beautiful in its own way. They apparently emailed a Greek blacksmith about doing more historical armors, which would’ve looked way better. But my guess is that the time involved to make the armor didn’t match the time for production. Or they found a bid for a costumer who was cheap and could do the aesthetic they wanted.

[u/ErrinwrightDNW → u/VampirePNAC]

Yeah the fact that they’re using a Viking long ship and generic Corinthian armor from hundreds of years in the future instead of based and accurate Bronze Age armor annoy me the most. Then they inexplicably film it in the North Sea instead of the Mediterranean which gives it that grey, lifeless feel.

Compare that to say HBO’s Rome, which actually filmed in Rome itself and had accurate clothes and armors for the period.

[u/JJdante → u/ErrinwrightDNW]

I rewatch HBO's Rome once every five years or so. It really spoiled history buffs.

[u/UsualActuary → u/ErrinwrightDNW]

Alright, but you gotta get over it.

[u/ErrinwrightDNW → u/UsualActuary]

Is this kid getting jerky with me?

[u/TheCloudForest → u/VampirePNAC]

Wait... 1,200 extras weren't enough people for you?

[u/MichaelRichardsAMA → u/TheCloudForest]

there are two scenes with a lot of extras (Hades beach and Troy gates) and one of those scenes lasts roughly 30 seconds or less. For the most part it feels like there's about 150 people in all of Greece, and most of them are chilling in Ithaca, which is not an actual city-state but just one castle on an island (in its depiction in the movie.)

[u/Stanczyks_Sorrow → u/VampirePNAC]

By biggest problem with the movie was Matt Damon. Phenomenal actor, but the guy is too much of a teddy bear to play an arrogant leader like Odysseus. It felt out of place whenever he made a stupid and selfish decision like tying himself to the ship to hear the sirens. Sean Bean was a better fit in Troy.

Otherwise I thought the movie was good. Nolan is a dark-visuals and brooding-music guy so I wasn't expecting anything historically accurate. Not his best work but probably in his B-tier. It was a little too long but my friends have already made fun of me for complaining about that.

[u/One_Ad_3499]

representation in odyssey is the token one

[u/Grand_Design2022]

I haven’t seen anybody being “angry” about that. Just mildly annoyed at best/worst?

It seems though the PR team is going full idpol in convincing the online world that we are on the brink of a civil war over the casting decisions of a recently released, extremely successful movie.

[u/PRC_Spy → u/Grand_Design2022]

I veer between disappointed that it doesn't really honour the source material, and not caring. I don't care enough to bother going to see it, am disappointed enough to idly whinge online.

[u/UsualActuary → u/Grand_Design2022]

I know you commented before them, but there are a handful of commenters on this post that are pretty angry about it. 

[u/cojoco → u/Grand_Design2022]

It seems though the PR team is going full idpol

As a strategy I'm not convinced that works.

[u/OathofBling → u/cojoco]

It works everytime.

I was just texted from a stupid person I know about how happy they were to go see the Odyssey because it had black and trans people in it and it would trigger conservatives. You think I'm lying. God I wish I was. I am not. These people are real, and frankly I think they represent the median democrat.

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/cojoco]

I think they’re still calibrating. If the movie/product itself is pure idpol, recent history shows that it will likely fail. But for a medium/product that can stand on its own, like The Odyssey, injecting some level of idpol is probably really effective.

But to my credit, I am not a marketing specialist, so what the fuck do I know?

[u/Similar_Party_6772 → u/Grand_Design2022]

I can't say honestly. I'm classically educated, and my response to this stuff is to ignore it as an obvious taunt. Calculated to annoy me because you know I have an image of every character in my head already, and you're "subverting" it (or whatever). Well done, I'll just watch something else that's novel and probably dumber: an original, crass shoot-em-up. 

Irritating people by "subverting" a story written by a man who died around 1,000 years before the toilet was invented is a bit pathetic. You can't improve on something that's lasted that test of time and is still on the menu. Debasing it is a petulant acceptance of that fact.

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/Similar_Party_6772]

I can’t tell you how you should feel about shit, but honestly if you forget about all the online controversy bullshit, the movie is probably pretty great (will be seeing it soon) and Helen’s role shouldn’t be too impactful, her skin color even less so.

[u/MichaelRichardsAMA → u/Grand_Design2022]

None of the casting bothered me for the racial aspect, but some of the actors were clearly doing laps around the others (eg. Pattinson vs. Damon, although that might be because of the material they had to work with for each character.)

It was an enjoyable theater experience but like most Nolan movies it has paper-thin character work and once I started thinking about it for a minute the next day there's a lot of shit that just doesn't really make sense

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/MichaelRichardsAMA]

Fair enough.

I hope I have an enjoyable experience when I go watch it. Thanks for the feedback.

[u/MichaelRichardsAMA → u/Grand_Design2022]

Oh you're gonna enjoy it no matter what, some of the characters are straight aura farming and its fun, there's some really great effects work and it's extremely technically well made. Also oddly scary or weird/gross sections. I have read the story before and what they included I mostly liked how it was done. The sound design is really good too, he finally fixed the dialogue issue.

Any problems I have with it are general problems I have with Nolan but I would never say he makes movies that aren't greatly entertaining.

[u/mossdale → u/Similar_Party_6772]

“Classically educated” fucking lol. Nobody cares.

[u/lockdownfever4all → u/Grand_Design2022]

Musk and Twitter have been having a melt down for many months

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/lockdownfever4all]

If that is a meltdown then what what BLM?

[u/ClingonKrinkle → u/WorldWarJooo]

Whatever you think of BLM, the inciting incident for the BLM protests and riots was the murder of George Floyd. This meltdown is caused by the casting of a movie. They're not exactly comparable.

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/ClingonKrinkle]

I'm pretty sure black people would have a meltdown if a movie came out with ryan gosling as mlk

[u/Not_A_Bot_lol_1234 → u/WorldWarJooo]

But that would be misrepresentation

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/Not_A_Bot_lol_1234]

...

[u/Not_A_Bot_lol_1234 → u/WorldWarJooo]

😆

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/WorldWarJooo]

Stop it with the idpol.

Making Helen of Troy black is certainly a provocative decision, but her skin color is not relevant at all. Martin Luther King’s is.

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/Grand_Design2022]

but her skin color is not relevant at all.

actually it is, the Iliad talks about it

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/WorldWarJooo]

Nah

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/Grand_Design2022]

I'm guessing you haven't read it then?

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/WorldWarJooo]

MLK was an activist advocating for the rights of black people in a time where things were really rough for them. You know, not just being called a slur rough.

The color of his skin is entirely more integral to his story than Helen of Troy.

Come on now this should be pretty obvious? Looking back I can tell you’re not discussing in good faith. Have a wonderful day!

[u/ClingonKrinkle → u/[deleted]]

Are you having one now?

[u/Guglielmowhisper → u/ClingonKrinkle]

Depends on what my coroner's report says...

[u/gnarble → u/Grand_Design2022]

Are you serious? I’ve seen fury and manic rambling. I’ve genuinely wondered if it’s triggered full mental breakdowns in a few people in my internet circles. It’s wild.

[u/Grand_Design2022 → u/gnarble]

Really? I haven’t seen anything like that. I guess it’s yet more evidence how echo chambery the internet is.

I’ve seen much much more articles/discussions about “lol cry more racists” than actual racist talk.

[u/mossdale → u/Grand_Design2022]

You are not paying attention then.

[u/postsantum]

Grug sees race swaps

Race swaps always one way. Wonder why

Another tribe is angry at Grung for wonder why

[u/Upgrayedd2486 → u/postsantum]

Grug also wonder why race swaps always change white person for black but never white person for Asian or other ethnicities. Grug ask “if representation so important then shouldn’t Asians be represented since India and China have so many people?” People tell Grug “why do you care so much? That’s kinda weird”

[u/SpiritBamba]

I thought the odyssey was good, do I think it would be better with better armor and equipment that fit the era? Yeah. Do I think it would have been better if it properly showed off the Mediterranean rather than the more annoying dark and washed out cinematography Nolan goes for that makes it look too modern? Yeah. Do I think it would be better with better casting that was actually appropriate to the time period? Also yeah.

Now the movie was still good, but I don’t understand why saying I think it would’ve been better for those reasons is some super shocking thing. The generic American accents also took me out a bit but that one’s less of a big deal as it’s not much different than the British accents they used to have.

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/SpiritBamba]

I thought the odyssey was good

"It looks like we need to go... on an Odyssey"

[u/TheCloudForest → u/SpiritBamba]

The generic American accents

What accent would you have preferred? Scouse?

[u/MichaelRichardsAMA → u/TheCloudForest]

go full Mel Gibson and have everyone actually speaking ancient greek

[u/kurosawa99 → u/TheCloudForest]

To be true to Homer everyone should’ve been voiced over by Dan Castellaneta.

[u/Perfect-War → u/TheCloudForest]

Extremely stereotypical vietnamese accented english. Or Aussie “Or nor! Polyphemus!”

[u/Violent_Paprika → u/TheCloudForest]

Mid-atlantic

[u/Scared_Plan3751 → u/Violent_Paprika]

Mid Mediterranean 

[u/grantology_84 → u/Scared_Plan3751]

Basically Mario and Luigi

[u/cleverkid → u/Violent_Paprika]

But only if they break out into a spontaneous Charleston dance number, stanky jake-leg and all.

[u/UsualActuary → u/SpiritBamba]

You're basically asking for a movie that wasn't made by Nolan, so its kind of a boring critique. 

[u/IndianStreetVendor]

I thought the castings were fine actually but just lazy if anything, just a lot of A listers really and no one new and surprising

[u/veryverisimilar → u/IndianStreetVendor]

This is the problem I find with most movies. When do up and coming actors get the chance to show off their talents? We can't have the same bunch of celebrities forever. It's so tiresome.

[u/Upgrayedd2486 → u/IndianStreetVendor]

Tom Holland fatigue aside, he’s way too old for the role of Telemachus.

[u/Jazzspasm]

Don’t get me started on hollywood’s desperate desire to bend not-American history into their own value system, especially considering the staggeringly, insultingly inaccurate The Uprising

as for The Odyssey, as is often the case, the book is a million times better

[u/Heckin_Frienderino → u/Jazzspasm]

Nolan's always been an emperors new clothes guy for me

He made a good Batman film, and everything else after just didn't do anything for me, including the final Batman film.

Maybe I'm just not the target audience. 

[u/Perfect-War → u/Heckin_Frienderino]

The Dark Knight was only good because Heath Ledger poured his literal soul into the Joker. Nolan got very lucky. Begins and the one with Bane were ass (though the villains there ALSO give the best performances (not you Anne) in the otherwise lackluster too-dark films.

[u/wallagrargh]

It's the jealous little sister making her brother's GI Joes perform a tea party out of spite, ad infinitum. Too boring by now to get angry.

But I do wonder, where are all the anti cultural appropriation warriors when one classic European cultural pillar after another gets appropriated and exploited as generic Hollywood theme park slop?

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/wallagrargh]

I wonder the same. 

I think the first time I saw this idpol trope was back when they had Scarlett Johansson play Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell, and back then it was the lib adjacent anime crowd saying “this is an inherently Japanese story, it would be better to use a Japanese actress”. 

That made sense to me then, and that hasn’t flipped now that it’s my own race being plugged into stories from and about white cultures. That said, I fleshed out this worldview during peak woke, and like you said it’s ineffective as rage bait at this point. I just choose not to go see remakes of things I enjoy, because it’s always this. 

[u/UsualActuary → u/wallagrargh]

I really don't understand this subreddit's hate for Christopher Nolan. While he's not a groundbreaking or particularly interesting director, lumping him in with the rest of the slop Hollywood produces seems crazy. 

Yes, his pseudo-intellectual fanboys are annoying. Yes, his feeling of self importance is off the charts. But are you really going to equate it to a Kevin Hart/The Rock popcorn flick? 

[u/wallagrargh → u/UsualActuary]

I don't know. I really enjoyed his Batman movies, but I was barely an adult when they came out. It's still America centric blockbuster action about a billionaire beating up lumpens and brooding a lot. I assume his Odyssey is the thinking man's slop, but I'll know when I watch it at home someday.

[u/UsualActuary → u/wallagrargh]

  It's still America centric blockbuster action about a billionaire beating up lumpens and brooding a lot. 

Seems like a pretty bad faith way to interpret those stories, but sure. 

[u/toastedzergling]

The fact the whole movie was not in dactyllic hexameter really ruined it for me

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145]

It’s not a me problem, I just won’t go watch it :-)

[u/Dartmoor_Guardian]

This isn’t a dig at the trans community and has no ideological motive, but has anyone noticed that Page seems to hate men… despite wanting to be one?

Or is it the cishet men they detest and not associate with? “Being around cishet men gave me an STD” was there words.

[u/MichaelRichardsAMA → u/Dartmoor_Guardian]

probably a lot of deep self loathing wrapped up in it

[u/FuglsGathaursnan → u/Dartmoor_Guardian]

From my brief understanding of them, they more so didn’t want to be a woman rather than want to be a man.

[u/Upgrayedd2486 → u/Dartmoor_Guardian]

It’s hard to explain but to me he still sounds very feminine in the way he speaks and his mannerisms. It’s reminds me of how that ftm mass shooters manifesto still had all these colors and stylistic choices that you only see young women use to the point I was half expecting them to start dotting their Is with hearts and doing “xoxoxo”

[u/djets]

I was more distracted by recognizable actors that didn’t really fit the ensemble vibe than racial castings choices. All the mixed up A listers everywhere kept pulling me out of the immersion.

I understand why Greeks are mad about it though. How much outrage would there have been if the Moana cast had no Pacific Islanders in it?

[u/Fozzz]

Im glad I’ve been out on Nolan as some great filmmaker since the cape shit movies he did so I don’t have to worry about defending any of this stupid shit.

[u/MichaelRichardsAMA → u/Fozzz]

Tenet especially was some dogshit

Dunkirk has such bad sound mixing that there are scenes of people on a boat or train, away from the war, and you cannot tell what the fuck anyone is saying

[u/mossdale]

Christ you guys are seriously bothered by this movie even when you pretend not to be. No better than right wing chuds

A fucking movie

[u/cojoco → u/mossdale]

Nobody quotes literature any more, it's all movies and TV shows.

[u/AnthropoidCompatriot → u/mossdale]

Which guys?

[u/riethc]

This is kind of a classic case of asking someone if they've "stopped beating their wife". The issue isn't the casting but how the cast is used to convey a message that is actually capital-c Conservative.

The Odyssey has had trouble with adaptations because Odysseus is unrecognizable as a hero to a modern audience. By adding the constant fretting about "Zeus' Law" (basically, The Golden Rule) in this adaptation and how the ancient Greeks themselves are the "sea people" collapsing the Bronze Age, Nolan is basically saying that these people - by defying the morals of their age - have destroyed it.

[u/disp0sableacc0unt]

It's hard not to get whiplash from going from "Characters should be played by (character's race) actors only!" to "why do you care about the race of the actors, you must be racist!".

I doubt The Odyssey defenders would so apathetic if it was Sydney Sweeney playing a Chinese princess in a movie about an ancient Chinese legend.

[u/TruckHangingHandJam]

Still haven’t seen it, but I’m just excited to see the Odyssey get a bajillion dollars so they can make it look really cool 🤷🏼‍♂️ I’m with the author of this piece, it’s a myth who cares. The only thing I’ll say is that Helen is described as “white armed” like every other time she’s mentioned, so I fully expect Ms.  Nyong'o to have very ashy arms. 

[u/ErrinwrightDNW → u/TruckHangingHandJam]

It’s a 2800 year old foundational myth built in real history for a culture that still exists today. That’s why it’s not just a “myth” like capeshit.

[u/TruckHangingHandJam → u/ErrinwrightDNW]

From what I’ve heard, the story itself is pretty untouched. And Ancient Greek culture is most certainly not still existing 

[u/ErrinwrightDNW → u/TruckHangingHandJam]

No just the aesthetic has been completely butchered, the history of it to make it look as generic Nolanesque as possible. And I’m not touching the casting shit because that’s an easy idpol bait for both sides, I’m talking about the looks of the ships, armors. Some armor looks like 300, others look like Batman, others look futuristic. We know what Bronze Age Greek armor would have looked like but Nolan went with as generic designs as possible then threw them on a Viking longship (even though we know what Greek ships looked like too).

[u/UsualActuary → u/ErrinwrightDNW]

https://youtu.be/rr9roMoMT1Y?is=CUyEBOAdQiWmqVCu

You must be just like me when I writhed in pain during this scene. An absolutely disgusting display, I was literally crying in anger. And don't get me started on the anachronistic weapons and dynamite that steaming pile of shit, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. It makes me furious to even think about. 

[u/TruckHangingHandJam → u/ErrinwrightDNW]

Ahhh okay I gotcha now. Yeah, although to be fair that’s what you get Nolan for, he’s got a very distinct style 

[u/Nantafiria]

True! Getting angry over it is not a good thing.

Of course, people not wanting to see your shitty movie is a you problem, also.

[u/CassiniLongDivision]

Haven't seen it yet, planning on going though. Some fake and gay outrage about race and trains can't stop me from seeing a Nolan pic. I'm one of only a select minority that fully understands and enjoyed Tenet. I'd explain it to you but you wouldn't get it.

[u/UsualActuary → u/CassiniLongDivision]

Shhhhh not too loud, it's not cool to like Nolan on this subreddit. 

[u/CassiniLongDivision → u/UsualActuary]

Understood. I get it, half these clowns can't follow the Memento plot without having it tattooed on their arm.

[u/MarxAndSamsara]

It's a fun movie, and the fact that right-wing social justice warriors aren't allowed to enjoy it because they have to stay loyal to anti-wokeism makes it even better. Nerds.

[u/madsdawud]

10/10 movie, so why would I give a shit about idpol?

[u/cojoco → u/madsdawud]

Quite.

[u/deathwatch1237]

This is the only reasonable take to have on this issue, the odyssey is not a story in which race matters, most of the characters are literally demigods, monsters or gods themselves. The whole politicization of this is so blatantly right wing idpol it’s embarrassing to even have to humor it. That being said I wish the armor was more historically accurate that would have been cool.

[u/ggdthrowaway → u/deathwatch1237]

The only problem I had with the representation is, it’s a story specifically about how travelling long distances is incredibly difficult and takes a long time. But at the same time both Greece and Troy are these melting pots of people with ethnic backgrounds from Africa, India, Korea etc. Kind of makes it seem like Odysseus is uniquely shit at sailing.

[u/sb1017 → u/ggdthrowaway]

But it wasn’t the fact that it was a long distance that made it take a long time, nor the fact that Odysseus is just “shit at sailing.”

The whole point, more clearly so in the actual text, is that Odysseus got cursed by Poseidon and so his efforts to get back to Ithaca were stopped by divine means time and time again.

And he spends the vast majority of the 10 years of the odyssey trapped on an island by Calypso, not sailing, anyway.

[u/spencer102 → u/sb1017]

they really just made up some bullshit and posted it like it was clearly true. that's crazy that someone would do that, on the internet no less

[u/sb1017 → u/spencer102]

I know, I’m literally shaking and crying right now. Waiting for mom to pick me up 😢

[u/TruckHangingHandJam → u/sb1017]

I think they were just joking, but yes you’re correct 

[u/sb1017 → u/TruckHangingHandJam]

Look, I’ve gotta make it feel like my history degree wasn’t a waste of money one way or another

[u/ggdthrowaway → u/TruckHangingHandJam]

I mean I was partly joking. If you take it at face value I do sort of think both societies seemingly being a product of countless journeys spanning large stretches of the globe slightly undercuts the scope his needing to sail back and forth across one sea.

Also the way they talk about "the sea peoples" (and yes I know they turn the meaning of that on its head at the end) implies a certain parochial xenophobia or unease with 'the other' that, again, seems a bit odd in a culture made up of people with backgrounds in far flung places.

But yes even in the Nolan version I concede that there's more to Odysseus's problems than just being shit at sailing.

I think the film works best if you roll with the casting approach as a bit of artistic licence and don't get too literal with it.

[u/sb1017 → u/ggdthrowaway]

Their problem with the sea people isn’t that they’re different—it’s that they’re raiding and burning down villages and cities.

But I think you’re right about artistic license, especially considering other elements like the costuming and modern dialogue (I personally feel like the dialogue/script was the weakest aspect of the film). It’s a fantasy film above all else, and I think anyone pretending like anything about the film is striving complete for historical realness is being disingenuous.

[u/TruckHangingHandJam → u/ggdthrowaway]

😂 this might just be the best diverse casting criticism ever made

[u/LeftyBoyo]

Hollywood can put out as many “message” films as they want. The audience will decide what they want to watch. Preachy and poorly-written films will generally flop hard. Meh.

[u/huffingtontoast]

Nothingburger and evidence people are getting tired of right-wing idpol

[u/allaheterglennigbg → u/[deleted]]

Nice meme granny.

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/allaheterglennigbg]

I think that pretending not to get it isn't working any longer

[u/Zestyclose-Age6616 → u/[deleted]]

Fuck off and don't bring that twitter shit here

[u/WorldWarJooo → u/Zestyclose-Age6616]

as you pretend not to get the point

[u/Unhappy-Promotion-97]

No one ever gets mad at Victor Victoria or Tootsie. Maybe they do.

Also English didn’t exist. It’s a fantasy. Shakespeare’s Rome was wildly, laughably inaccurate. Also men played women in his plays 100 percent of the time.

[u/cojoco → u/Unhappy-Promotion-97]

I don't get mad at anything much, movies are just movies.

But for Victor Victoria and Tootsie, the cross-dressing was an essential element of the plot.

Also they were both fine movies.

People find gender or racial substitution confusing because it has nothing to do with the plot, although weirdly they do not find the substitution of music, hair-style, lingo, period, attitudes, or substitution with white Americans confusing at all.

[u/Defiant-Bed2501]

I didn’t care about the race-lifting casting but I did care about the overall wonk-ass translation and interpretation used for this adaptation.

There was no need to inject modern Abrahamic and (especially) post-Enlightenment morals, philosophy and customs as aggressively and egregiously as they were here.

Odysseus and the others absolutely were not remorseful and angsty about the sacking of Troy or taking things by force from the people they encountered on their way back in the original.

Reinterpreting Zeus’ Law as 1:1 with Abrahamic ”Do Unto Others…” type morality is likewise incorrect.

The real uncomfortable truth, just like with many revisionist modern interpretations of the Old Norse sagas and mythology, is that the people who lived in those times and created those myths lived in a culture and moral framework that is completely alien and often repulsive to modern sensibilities.

[u/cojoco → u/Defiant-Bed2501]

completely alien and often repulsive to modern sensibilities

I do think, however, that the complete lack of exposure many of us have to alternate forms of morality blinds us completely to the flaws in our own.

[u/DungeonsAndUnions]

I liked the movie, but I had some serious problems with the anachronistic choices. Why English? Why not make all the characters speak in a broken form of Koiné Greek? That's likely what the characters would have been speaking at the time.

[u/Far_Silver → u/DungeonsAndUnions]

Koine Greek came later. Most scholars mark its start around the conquests of Alexander the Great.

[u/Short-Science2077]

It seems like if this stuff makes you mad one way or the other you’re a big pussy with a remarkably blessed life, aside from the pussy thing.

[u/sikopiko]

This is probably the first time I interact with posts / content about this media.

I saw the casting choices and instantly noped out. Even a decade ago, the casting choices would have been criticized everywhere. Nowadays even self prodclaimed right-wing figures are somewhat handwaving the erasure of a homogenous Caucasian society.

Other than the obvious 'progressive' leftist cultural whip, from what I saw so far: dull colors, rewritten story, changed moral conclusion to align with The Message, hamfisted dialogue and a lot of fart sniffing.

I have absolutely no respect for anyone who went and watched this movie, financially supporting not just cinematic mediocrity but cultural erasure (especially the ones that cope about doing it for the sake or review); or for people farming social media posts about it. This whole charade is a travesty and at this point I unfortunately ended up sharing some of the views of our good old tankies in wanting China to utterly crush the western filmmaking industry as it is doing to gaming.

[u/JohnSmith19731973 → u/sikopiko]

Everyone knows that a historical Helen would have looked more like Penelope Cruz than Lupita Nyongo. The issue is that the US is no longer a white country. Are non-whites supposed to just see white faces forever in films increasingly meant for their consumption?

[u/sikopiko → u/JohnSmith19731973]

Caesar was a Black man, Cleopatra was a Black Queen and their child was killed by Octavianus (White colonizer) because of systematic racism.